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Ohhhhhhhhhhh! That was vicious. It was better because, even though you knew it was coming, it was still harsh when it happened. I actually felt bad for Marie because it was her turn to find out how much Skyler and Walt had lied to her over the course of the series. You know it had to hurt worse because it's her only sister who did it to her as well. Marie trying to take Holly was just heartbreaking.
I think showing how Hank is basically f*cked was really well done in this episode. When he sat down with Skyler, I thought that this whole arc would be concluded quickly since it was moving so fast then Skyler's freakout in the restaurant slammed the brakes on the whole thing until the end of the episode when they give the next ray of hope with Jesse. I still don't think Jesse is going to flip on Walt though.
The big thing I pulled from Lydia's scene is that there may be something to the theory about the Czechs having a lot to do with the events that end the series. As stated in my previous post, Lydia will go for it when she is put under stress. Given what she said to Declan about the inferior product, I wonder if she is getting pressured/threatened by the Czechs to resolve the purity issue. If memory serves, the sequence went Todd shows up > text message > gunfire. The text may have been the go ahead since Declan seemed unconcerned with resolving the purity issue. Also, if there was any problem to be had with that scene, it was that Todd's family killed around 8 of Declan's guys without anyone seemingly getting hit. Come on now.
I'm pretty sure Lydia clearly states that her 'clients' are unhappy with the low quality of the product when she's speaking to Declan. I took that to mean the Czechs, since that's who she's connected to on the other end of all of this. I think it's who she was referencing when she went to visit Walt.
The Czechs are an ominous storm cloud hovering over the events in this season, imo.
As far as Todd's family ambush goes, it was obvious that they were wearing body armor (Todd's uncle, I think it is, was bulky and clearly wearing something under his shirt. Declan's men were well armed, but unprepared and unarmored. Send Todd in as a decoy and ambush from the rear? Not too outrageous of a premise. Declan's men were also all in the middle of the meeting spot, out in the open. Basically, they were in the "kill box." Not much you can do in the kill box besides get killed.
I wish we had some more background on Lydia's character, because I think a couple of well-spent flashbacks could help clarify her character. She's highly involved with international drug trade and is one of the most important aspects of the network (transport). If she's been at this for a few years, scraping to survive and keep the international buyers from killing her for various f*ck ups, it'd at least explain why she's a) terrified all the time and b) willing to go to great lengths to keep them happy.
We know she has a daughter that has been put in the crosshairs in the past, so it's not that difficult to pick up on her being mama bear to keep her and her child safe, but also being a neurotic nut because she's constantly being threatened with death, or worse.
The Hank/Skylar scene was fantastic, btw. It was one of the few times in the show where I think Skylar's character carried a vitally important scene.
Ohhhhhhhhhhh! That was vicious. It was better because, even though you knew it was coming, it was still harsh when it happened. I actually felt bad for Marie because it was her turn to find out how much Skyler and Walt had lied to her over the course of the series. You know it had to hurt worse because it's her only sister who did it to her as well. Marie trying to take Holly was just heartbreaking.
I think showing how Hank is basically f*cked was really well done in this episode. When he sat down with Skyler, I thought that this whole arc would be concluded quickly since it was moving so fast then Skyler's freakout in the restaurant slammed the brakes on the whole thing until the end of the episode when they give the next ray of hope with Jesse. I still don't think Jesse is going to flip on Walt though.
The big thing I pulled from Lydia's scene is that there may be something to the theory about the Czechs having a lot to do with the events that end the series. As stated in my previous post, Lydia will go for it when she is put under stress. Given what she said to Declan about the inferior product, I wonder if she is getting pressured/threatened by the Czechs to resolve the purity issue. If memory serves, the sequence went Todd shows up > text message > gunfire. The text may have been the go ahead since Declan seemed unconcerned with resolving the purity issue. Also, if there was any problem to be had with that scene, it was that Todd's family killed around 8 of Declan's guys without anyone seemingly getting hit. Come on now.
I'm pretty sure Lydia clearly states that her 'clients' are unhappy with the low quality of the product when she's speaking to Declan. I took that to mean the Czechs, since that's who she's connected to on the other end of all of this. I think it's who she was referencing when she went to visit Walt.
The Czechs are an ominous storm cloud hovering over the events in this season, imo.
As far as Todd's family ambush goes, it was obvious that they were wearing body armor (Todd's uncle, I think it is, was bulky and clearly wearing something under his shirt. Declan's men were well armed, but unprepared and unarmored. Send Todd in as a decoy and ambush from the rear? Not too outrageous of a premise. Declan's men were also all in the middle of the meeting spot, out in the open. Basically, they were in the "kill box." Not much you can do in the kill box besides get killed.
I wish we had some more background on Lydia's character, because I think a couple of well-spent flashbacks could help clarify her character. She's highly involved with international d trade and is one of the most important aspects of the network (transport). If she's been at this for a few years, scraping to survive and keep the international buyers from killing her for various f*ck ups, it'd at least explain why she's a) terrified all the time and b) willing to go to great lengths to keep them happy.
We know she has a daughter that has been put in the crosshairs in the past, so it's not that difficult to pick up on her being mama bear to keep her and her child safe, but also being a neurotic nut because she's constantly being threatened with death, or worse.
The Hank/Skylar scene was fantastic, btw. It was one of the few times in the show where I think Skylar's character carried a vitally important scene.
Yeah, the Czechs is definitely who she was referencing to Walt in the first episode. There was just a switch in this episode from them being unhappy with the drop in purity (totally expected) to them potentially pushing for those responsible to be executed. It moves them from being a force off to the side who somewhat of a convenience to keep the plot going to a force that influences events in the US and someone people in the show should be worried about.
I am not saying the Declan hit was totally unreasonable. I think it is just a larger leap than anything else going on in the scene. I didn't notice the body armor, but that would go a long way to explaining things. I would say the killing box idea isn't as helpful as there was cover available there, and one would have to assume Declan's men are reasonably capable with guns.
I think the Lydia backstory is one of the things that is probably getting dropped due to time constraints. Plus, I think they have gotten your a and b across through the narrative so far. Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the force behind the impetus behind the Declan hit will be interesting. Was it the Czechs? Was it Lydia overreacting due to dropping purity? Was it Todd and his family due to them getting cut out of the action?
I agree on the Hank/Skyler scene. One of the things I have picked up on during the rewatch is that Skyler is a much more sympathetic character than I felt the first time through. Walt is looking at dying at the end of his run. Skyler is going to have to live with his legacy afterward, and she has seemingly lost Ted, Hank and Marie who have been the three most important (and really only) relationships she has had in the show. It's not surprising she is coming apart at the seams.
I agree on the Hank/Skyler scene. One of the things I have picked up on during the rewatch is that Skyler is a much more sympathetic character than I felt the first time through. Walt is looking at dying at the end of his run. Skyler is going to have to live with his legacy afterward, and she has seemingly lost Ted, Hank and Marie who have been the three most important (and really only) relationships she has had in the show. It's not surprising she is coming apart at the seams.
Dean Norris played that restaurant scene perfectly. Hank figured Skyler would jump right into his arms: "Oh, yes, save me and my children from this monster!" But then her reticence surprises him, and he's suddenly having to treat her as if she's a doe he's trying not to spook. That was so subtle, and yet so nicely done. I'm going to have to check him out as Big Jim in Under the Dome.
And I love how Hank has to go into the office and pretend it's just another normal day. It's like role reversal with Walter -- now Hank is the one with the terrible secret he can't reveal without losing everything that's important to him. And I think he'll come to realize that this is how Walter felt at the beginning of his slide.
Last Edit: Aug 19, 2013 7:50:24 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
so I'm finally caught up and I can read and discuss the show now!
Let's hope you do better with Breaking Bad analysis than you do with college football analysis. Amirite, Flanz?
Also, crazykittensmile told us in chat last night that she wouldn't be able to watch Sunday's episode when it broadcasts due to being at FYF. She asked that we text, facebook message or snapchat her updates as the episode progresses.
Yeah, the Czechs is definitely who she was referencing to Walt in the first episode. There was just a switch in this episode from them being unhappy with the drop in purity (totally expected) to them potentially pushing for those responsible to be executed. It moves them from being a force off to the side who somewhat of a convenience to keep the plot going to a force that influences events in the US and someone people in the show should be worried about.
I am not saying the Declan hit was totally unreasonable. I think it is just a larger leap than anything else going on in the scene. I didn't notice the body armor, but that would go a long way to explaining things. I would say the killing box idea isn't as helpful as there was cover available there, and one would have to assume Declan's men are reasonably capable with guns.
I think the Lydia backstory is one of the things that is probably getting dropped due to time constraints. Plus, I think they have gotten your a and b across through the narrative so far. Like I mentioned in the previous paragraph, the force behind the impetus behind the Declan hit will be interesting. Was it the Czechs? Was it Lydia overreacting due to dropping purity? Was it Todd and his family due to them getting cut out of the action?
I agree on the Hank/Skyler scene. One of the things I have picked up on during the rewatch is that Skyler is a much more sympathetic character than I felt the first time through. Walt is looking at dying at the end of his run. Skyler is going to have to live with his legacy afterward, and she has seemingly lost Ted, Hank and Marie who have been the three most important (and really only) relationships she has had in the show. It's not surprising she is coming apart at the seams.
Well, I've always been under the impression that the Czechs were a threat to everyone on the show, but Lydia is the only one who is understanding of how immediate and all-encompassing that threat is.
Everyone else thinks "Czech" and with it some sort of distance between the threat and themselves. I'd be incredibly surprised if an entity as big as the Czech's didn't have around-the-clock surveillance going on the main pieces. I think anything that costs them money, let alone $50 million (which we can assume is exaggerated for effect, so let's cut it in half and say $25 mil to be safe), is grounds for them to drop the hammer on the network in New Mexico.
Maybe I remember the gun fight layout differently, but while they had the guy with the assault rifle on the high ground, most of Declan's men were on the ground in the open. If it was some kind of coordinated attack from the back and they took them unawares it's not unreasonable. For Todd's crew to come out completely unscathed would've been a big stroke of good luck, I'll give you that, but it seemed EAP may have a point with Lydia's appearance leading Declan's crew to let their guard down. It is kind of odd that some guy pops down to say they have a problem and a fair amount of time passes before they start shooting. That's why I think there was a decoy, like one of the crew members pretending to be lost and the rest springing to action or something. By the precedent BB's set for itself it may be a bit much, but it's not unreasonable imo.
I think the hit on Declan was a combination of all three, tbh. Todd & crew were clearly pissed that they got kicked out of the network, Lydia appears to be genuinely terrified (she went to Walt to come back, after all) and the Czech's are crazy Europeans from the Eastern Block and were raking in cash hand over fist before the quality dropped off. All three could easily play a role and push Lydia to formulate this plan to hand over the work to Todd and pray he can fix the mistakes.
Well, I've always been under the impression that the Czechs were a threat to everyone on the show, but Lydia is the only one who is understanding of how immediate and all-encompassing that threat is.
Everyone else thinks "Czech" and with it some sort of distance between the threat and themselves. I'd be incredibly surprised if an entity as big as the Czech's didn't have around-the-clock surveillance going on the main pieces. I think anything that costs them money, let alone $50 million (which we can assume is exaggerated for effect, so let's cut it in half and say $25 mil to be safe), is grounds for them to drop the hammer on the network in New Mexico.
Maybe I remember the gun fight layout differently, but while they had the guy with the assault rifle on the high ground, most of Declan's men were on the ground in the open. If it was some kind of coordinated attack from the back and they took them unawares it's not unreasonable. For Todd's crew to come out completely unscathed would've been a big stroke of good luck, I'll give you that, but it seemed EAP may have a point with Lydia's appearance leading Declan's crew to let their guard down. It is kind of odd that some guy pops down to say they have a problem and a fair amount of time passes before they start shooting. That's why I think there was a decoy, like one of the crew members pretending to be lost and the rest springing to action or something. By the precedent BB's set for itself it may be a bit much, but it's not unreasonable imo.
I think the hit on Declan was a combination of all three, tbh. Todd & crew were clearly pissed that they got kicked out of the network, Lydia appears to be genuinely terrified (she went to Walt to come back, after all) and the Czech's are crazy Europeans from the Eastern Block and were raking in cash hand over fist before the quality dropped off. All three could easily play a role and push Lydia to formulate this plan to hand over the work to Todd and pray he can fix the mistakes.
I personally had kind of backshelved the Czechs due to what appeared to be the more immediate threat to Walt in the form of Hank. Also, like Walt said in the opener, he left them a viable operation, so last week's episode was the first indication that there was any reason to really consider them aside from that being the place where inventory went. It's not that I didn't think they were capable. I just didn't see them as having a need to.
Yeah, I can see them doing the decoy where Todd or someone else drives up acting lost distracting Declan's men while the other get into position. If things are going well, Lydia sends them the text to go on without causing a ruckus. They ask for directions and leave when Declan inevitably tells them to f*ck off. Things were not going so well, so Lydia sends the message to have everyone killed. Either way, the gun fight was legit enough for me not be mad about it.
so I'm finally caught up and I can read and discuss the show now!
Let's hope you do better with Breaking Bad analysis than you do with college football analysis. Amirite, Flanz?
Also, crazykittensmile told us in chat last night that she wouldn't be able to watch Sunday's episode when it broadcasts due to being at FYF. She asked that we text, facebook message or snapchat her updates as the episode progresses.
I have to say, last night was my favorite episode of the series so far. It was just so perfectly paced and acted. Normally I hate the commercial breaks and tonight I was relieved every time one started because it was an opportunity to catch my breath.
1. I think the redemption of Skyler is a very purposeful thing in the last two episodes. I think it is building her up as the most sympathetic character and it is going to make whatever happens to her all the more painful.
2. This episode said to me Walt's biggest danger is Lydia not Hank. Hank has nothing, Skyler and Walt are not going to talk. He is going to act until he has more and I don't see him getting more anytime soon. Lydia masterminded the raid of the AZ crew. She tries to portray herself as weak, stupid, and innocent. She is the opposite. To me she seems like she has fallen as much as Walt has, but for different reasons.
Walt needs to watch out for Lydia planning something to capture him when Todd can't bring up the % enough for the Czech.
3. What the hell happened to Walt Jr? Did I forget something from 5a?
4. The scene with Walt on the bathroom floor was pretty powerful. He doesn't regret what he has done, but he realizes due to his mistake it might all be for naught.
Well, I've always been under the impression that the Czechs were a threat to everyone on the show, but Lydia is the only one who is understanding of how immediate and all-encompassing that threat is.
Everyone else thinks "Czech" and with it some sort of distance between the threat and themselves. I'd be incredibly surprised if an entity as big as the Czech's didn't have around-the-clock surveillance going on the main pieces. I think anything that costs them money, let alone $50 million (which we can assume is exaggerated for effect, so let's cut it in half and say $25 mil to be safe), is grounds for them to drop the hammer on the network in New Mexico.
Maybe I remember the gun fight layout differently, but while they had the guy with the assault rifle on the high ground, most of Declan's men were on the ground in the open. If it was some kind of coordinated attack from the back and they took them unawares it's not unreasonable. For Todd's crew to come out completely unscathed would've been a big stroke of good luck, I'll give you that, but it seemed EAP may have a point with Lydia's appearance leading Declan's crew to let their guard down. It is kind of odd that some guy pops down to say they have a problem and a fair amount of time passes before they start shooting. That's why I think there was a decoy, like one of the crew members pretending to be lost and the rest springing to action or something. By the precedent BB's set for itself it may be a bit much, but it's not unreasonable imo.
I think the hit on Declan was a combination of all three, tbh. Todd & crew were clearly pissed that they got kicked out of the network, Lydia appears to be genuinely terrified (she went to Walt to come back, after all) and the Czech's are crazy Europeans from the Eastern Block and were raking in cash hand over fist before the quality dropped off. All three could easily play a role and push Lydia to formulate this plan to hand over the work to Todd and pray he can fix the mistakes.
I personally had kind of backshelved the Czechs due to what appeared to be the more immediate threat to Walt in the form of Hank. Also, like Walt said in the opener, he left them a viable operation, so last week's episode was the first indication that there was any reason to really consider them aside from that being the place where inventory went. It's not that I didn't think they were capable. I just didn't see them as having a need to.
Yeah, I can see them doing the decoy where Todd or someone else drives up acting lost distracting Declan's men while the other get into position. If things are going well, Lydia sends them the text to go on without causing a ruckus. They ask for directions and leave when Declan inevitably tells them to f*ck off. Things were not going so well, so Lydia sends the message to have everyone killed. Either way, the gun fight was legit enough for me not be mad about it.
Yeah, the gun fight isn't the most realistic they've had on the show, but I think with the way they've run things to this point we can give them the benefit of the doubt on this instance.
I guess I never stopped considering the Czech's as a threat. It's probably tied to the idea that no one gets to walk away from "the life" in any other movie or show, so it's almost a subconscious expectation that things will come back to haunt Walt and/or the rest of the characters.
If history is an indicator, things seem to be dealt with by big time drug distributors harshly if their bottom line is hurt.
And this just kind of came to me in talking this all out. What if Lydia pleading with Walt was a precursor to a similar situation later on where Lydia approaches Walt a second time with the same sort of plan in place that she used with Declan? Maybe that's why we didn't see the actual gunfight? A little foreshadowing or something? Interesting to consider, at least.
I think the Czech threat is over blown by Lydia. She is the more direct threat. If her supply ends they are powerful enough to find another supply. She is the one that wants to keep the connection
I think the Czech threat is over blown by Lydia. She is the more direct threat. If her supply ends they are powerful enough to find another supply. She is the one that wants to keep the connection
I think the Czech threat is over blown by Lydia. She is the more direct threat. If her supply ends they are powerful enough to find another supply. She is the one that wants to keep the connection
I was thinking maybe Lydia/Todd take Skyler or the kids as collateral to get Walt to cook.
You think either has the balls to mess with Walt? Maybe Todd, maybe, but Walt also left the cooking business to him, so Todd shouldn't have any ill will towards Walt.
I was thinking maybe Lydia/Todd take Skyler or the kids as collateral to get Walt to cook.
You think either has the balls to mess with Walt? Maybe Todd, maybe, but Walt also left the cooking business to him, so Todd shouldn't have any ill will towards Walt.
I was thinking maybe Lydia/Todd take Skyler or the kids as collateral to get Walt to cook.
You think either has the balls to mess with Walt? Maybe Todd, maybe, but Walt also left the cooking business to him, so Todd shouldn't have any ill will towards Walt.
Depends, I think, on Walt's relationship with Hank. If you look at some of the close-up clothing shots from the season opener of Walt buying the machine gun, you could interpret them to mean he's wearing a wire. We now know that Lydia won't hesitate to bring in lethal force to protect her interests. So if Walt (and Skyler?) are somehow working with Hank and Lydia becomes aware of this, I think she and Todd could try to take Walt out. Not sure what leverage they would use to draw Walt out of hiding--Jesse, maybe? Certainly there's a father-son relationship there now. But it's very hard to predict; too many possibilities.
You think either has the balls to mess with Walt? Maybe Todd, maybe, but Walt also left the cooking business to him, so Todd shouldn't have any ill will towards Walt.
Depends, I think, on Walt's relationship with Hank. If you look at some of the close-up clothing shots from the season opener of Walt buying the machine gun, you could interpret them to mean he's wearing a wire. We now know that Lydia won't hesitate to bring in lethal force to protect her interests. So if Walt (and Skyler?) are somehow working with Hank and Lydia becomes aware of this, I think she and Todd could try to take Walt out. Not sure what leverage they would use to draw Walt out of hiding--Jesse, maybe? Certainly there's a father-son relationship there now. But it's very hard to predict; too many possibilities.
Ya I was thinking maybe Hank learns about Lydia and the Czechs somehow and makes a deal with Walt to expose them. Right now I'm under the impression that Hank hasn't figured out how deep in Skyler is. If he finds an out to protect her and the kids he would think long and hard about taking it.
I agree Todd is a crazy but he isn't particularly smart
Depends, I think, on Walt's relationship with Hank. If you look at some of the close-up clothing shots from the season opener of Walt buying the machine gun, you could interpret them to mean he's wearing a wire. We now know that Lydia won't hesitate to bring in lethal force to protect her interests. So if Walt (and Skyler?) are somehow working with Hank and Lydia becomes aware of this, I think she and Todd could try to take Walt out. Not sure what leverage they would use to draw Walt out of hiding--Jesse, maybe? Certainly there's a father-son relationship there now. But it's very hard to predict; too many possibilities.
Ya I was thinking maybe Hank learns about Lydia and the Czechs somehow and makes a deal with Walt to expose them. Right now I'm under the impression that Hank hasn't figured out how deep in Skyler is. If he finds an out to protect her and the kids he would think long and hard about taking it.
I agree Todd is a crazy but he isn't particularly smart
on Talking Bad the creator of the show pretty much said there will be a shootout where Walt kills a lot of people. Czechs? cops? also he said that Ricin will come in handy at some point.
I think the machine gun is absolutely for the Czechs or Todd's crew. Possibly the cops, but I think it's pretty easy right now to imagine a path where the Czechs and/or Todd's crew kidnap Skyler or the kids to try to coerce Walt back into cooking. Maybe Skyler and/or the kids end up dead, Walt goes on the run while plotting a suicide mission against the Czechs, and then has a final showdown with Todd's crew and/or the Czechs. What any of this means for Jesse, I have no idea. This post will probably be laughably off-the-mark from what actually happens, since it's kind of predictable, and this is not an easily predictable show.
I think the machine gun is absolutely for the Czechs or Todd's crew. Possibly the cops, but I think it's pretty easy right now to imagine a path where the Czechs and/or Todd's crew kidnap Skyler or the kids to try to coerce Walt back into cooking. Maybe Skyler and/or the kids end up dead, Walt goes on the run while plotting a suicide mission against the Czechs, and then has a final showdown with Todd's crew and/or the Czechs. What any of this means for Jesse, I have no idea. This post will probably be laughably off-the-mark from what actually happens, since it's kind of predictable, and this is not an easily predictable show.
I think the machine gun is absolutely for the Czechs or Todd's crew. Possibly the cops, but I think it's pretty easy right now to imagine a path where the Czechs and/or Todd's crew kidnap Skyler or the kids to try to coerce Walt back into cooking. Maybe Skyler and/or the kids end up dead, Walt goes on the run while plotting a suicide mission against the Czechs, and then has a final showdown with Todd's crew and/or the Czechs. What any of this means for Jesse, I have no idea. This post will probably be laughably off-the-mark from what actually happens, since it's kind of predictable, and this is not an easily predictable show.
Nah, I think the ricin will be for Lydia (who will still be in cahoots with the Czechs and/or Todd's crew), since she'd never find her way to the middle of a gunfight.
I think the machine gun is absolutely for the Czechs or Todd's crew. Possibly the cops, but I think it's pretty easy right now to imagine a path where the Czechs and/or Todd's crew kidnap Skyler or the kids to try to coerce Walt back into cooking. Maybe Skyler and/or the kids end up dead, Walt goes on the run while plotting a suicide mission against the Czechs, and then has a final showdown with Todd's crew and/or the Czechs. What any of this means for Jesse, I have no idea. This post will probably be laughably off-the-mark from what actually happens, since it's kind of predictable, and this is not an easily predictable show.
I don't think Todd's crew fits here. They had a reason to want to take out Declan, but Walt took Todd into the cooking and handed him the keys when he left, if anything they'd be indebted to Walt, no?
Now, Todd's crew going after Jesse? More plausible in my mind. Jesse and Todd didn't see eye to eye and Jesse has been tormented by Todd killing that little kid. I could see some chain of events leading to Todd(& crew) either taking Jesse out directly, attempting to, or leading to his demise (whether by death of incarceration), but I don't see why they'd go after Walt unless they become Lydia's henchmen, which doesn't sound like something they'd be looking to do.
Another "the most I think about it" thought I had....Declan's crew was made out to be quite badass. Then Todd's crew wipes the floor with them. It seems possible that the Czech's, to establish their badass factor, could wipe out Todd's crew as a message, no?
They're lucky I don't write for this show. Everyone would die except Jesse and Saul.