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I mostly got it because I have around 40 or so records but nothing to play 'em on, and they're really good albums to so I can't bear to part with them. So now I'm in my room rocking my ass off to some Beatles lol. What is it about the "vinyl experience" that you find more captivating than other methods of playing?
If you think about it in terms of guitar amps, why are tube amps preferable to digital amps? To me its the warmth that analog gives you vs the cold crassness that a digital amp gives you. Course I'm completely talking out of my ass and postjack can prolly give you a much more informed answer. Simply put, with the right equipment, vinyl just sounds better.
I read some where that part of the reason it sounds so much better is that since the vinyl is an analog version of the song it picks up things you cannot hear on a digital copy. With vinyl you are listening to the sound the vinyl makes against the needle. With Digital its just that, digital. I remember listening to MGMT for the first time on Vinyl and I noticed a heavy drum sound that wasn't really evident in the digital version.
If you think about it in terms of guitar amps, why are tube amps preferable to digital amps? To me its the warmth that analog gives you vs the cold crassness that a digital amp gives you. Course I'm completely talking out of my ass and postjack can prolly give you a much more informed answer. Simply put, with the right equipment, vinyl just sounds better.
I read some where that part of the reason it sounds so much better is that since the vinyl is an analog version of the song it picks up things you cannot hear on a digital copy. With vinyl you are listening to the sound the vinyl makes against the needle. With Digital its just that, digital. I remember listening to MGMT for the first time on Vinyl and I noticed a heavy drum sound that wasn't really evident in the digital version.
If its Oracular Spectacular you are referring to, reason the MGMT vinyl sounds better is because it uses a different master:
If its another album it still might be different mastering, this is just what I came up with from googling.
The digital version suffers from "brickwall" mastering, meaning the album is mastered "loud", making the WAV form look like a solid wall, instead of the peaks and valleys more common in a WAV form, thus the term "brickwalling". The drum sound you refer to gets lost in the mix on the digital version, since everything else is just as loud as the drum you can't hear its impact.
Here is a WAV form from the "brickwalled" digital version:
And here is a WAV form from the vinyl:
see how the vinyl master has room to breathe? that allows the drums to have the impact you're hearing.
My local record store in Oxford, MS (The End of All Music) is doing an online "Vinyl Club" if anyone wants to join. I still say they're the best new vinyl store in America (and I don't know the owners so that's a non-biased opinion).
I mostly got it because I have around 40 or so records but nothing to play 'em on, and they're really good albums to so I can't bear to part with them. So now I'm in my room rocking my ass off to some Beatles lol. What is it about the "vinyl experience" that you find more captivating than other methods of playing?
umphlovecincy put it well. keep in mind i'm not a scientist or sound engineer or anything just a audio fan who has spent too much time reading about audio crap so this is just what I've gleaned from stuff I've read and my own experience:
Digital, by all accounts, is objectively more accurate than any analog medium. It has the ability to play a greater amount of the audible spectrum, and does so with absolute precision. By most objective measurements, until the Nyquist theorem is disproved, the "redbook" digital format, aka the compact disc format, aka 16/44.1, is the "perfect" way to reproduce recorded sound. It covers the entire frequency spectrum audible to human ears and then some. Which is why I think the push for hi-rez recordings, 24/96, 24/192, etc., is bullshit. That and I personally can't hear the difference between 16/44.1 and higher resolutions, and certain non-scientific studies have found that a sample of audiophiles can't either, even if that sample are hi-rez believers. I'm digressing. Anyway, this "perfection" thing led to sony's original slogan for the CD, "Perfect Sound Forever", which audiophiles love to make fun of.
Despite CD objectively offering perfect sound, to some people, vinyl sounds more pleasing to the ear. Similar to what umphlovescincy said, solid state amplification offers objectively, measureably better sound, but tube amps still remain popular, again, because the distortion added by tube amps are more pleasing to some ears.
I have a couple different headphone amps: an Oppo HA-1, which is class A solid state, and a Singlepower Supra, which is a tube amp that uses three 6SN7 tubes. I primarily use the Sennheiser HD800 with these amps, and to my ears, the Supra is clearly superior, even though it is objectively, measureably an inferior design. The tubes add just the slightest bit of sweetness to the sound, and just the tiniest bit of bass bloom. This is actually "tube coloration", meaning its not accurately giving me what is in the recording, but taking the recording and making some very subtle changes to the sound. So not as accurate, but for some reason more enjoyable.
Vinyl vs CD, in my mind, is similar to tube vs solid state. Vinyl is not as accurate. Its not going to have nearly as low a noisefloor as CD, and its not going to reproduce the highest highs and the lowest lows with the same accuracy as CD. But vinyl adds something to the sound, some kind of warmth, some kind of sweetness, some kind of liquidity (sorry for the lame audiophiles words but its hard to explain without them) that you don't always get with CD.
Having said that, you absolutely cannot say that any recording on vinyl will be more pleasing then the same recording on CD. I love redbook and digital dearly, and listen to just as many CDs or FLAC files as I do vinyl. 16/44.1 can sound absolutely amazing if recorded, mixed, and mastered properly. But the problem is the dawn of digital recording brought about a horde of recording sins, most easily embodied by the term the loudness wars, which is basically the tendency of audio engineers to make recordings louder and louder and louder, thereby squashing the dynamic range of the recording and generally making them sound bad. Metallica's "Death Magnetic" is one of the worst offenders of this "brickwalling" process, but there are countless recordings over the past couple of decades that have been completely destroyed in the mix or master. Unfortunately, many classic rock recordings have been "remastered" over the past 20 years. Sometimes these remasters are pretty good (The Beatles), sometimes they are fucking horrible (Genesis).
So at least for classic rock, vinyl gives you an opportunity to buy an original or early pressing of the record, often for just a few bucks depending on the release, and hear the recording as it was originally intended to be heard. Modern vinyl releases are a different story, since many new vinyl releases are sourced from digital, and if the digital master is loud and brickwalled and futzed with, the vinyl will sound just as shitty, if not shittier, than the CD.
But a modern vinyl release handled with care, even if sourced from a digital file, can sound amazing. But getting a piece of vinyl from an all analog chain (recorded in analog, master in analog, analog format) can lead to a pretty awesome listening experience. Again, objectively analog is a far worse medium for music production and music reproduction, but for some reason some ears prefer it!
In summary:
-A well mastered, well mixed 16/44.1 recording can sound amazing. -A well mastered, well mixed vinyl can sound amazing. -Some people prefer vinyl overall, despite its sonic limitations, because it colors the music in a way that is more pleasing to the human ear.
As far as non-sonic reasons to love vinyl, for me personally, it makes listening to music more of an event. I pick out a vinyl, open it up, turn on all my equipment, put the record on and lower the needle, get into the "sweet spot" listening area, and just listen. I connect with the music more, maybe because I put more effort into setting up the listening experience. I am less likely to multitask when listening to vinyl, and spend time instead just enjoying the music.
Also I like the way bass sounds better on vinyl and bass is awesome. Check out some New Order 12" original pressings (I suggest Confusion) and that bass makes you understand why rave culture started.
Sorry I went on a little too long and maybe went a bit off topic, but I think these are the reasons why I prefer vinyl.
This is a very good post. I think what needs to be remembered is that there are no absolutes when it comes to what can be the best solution for the listening ear. There can be a host of, and varying combinations of solutions that with any given music title can bring the best listening results.
I am a big proponent of vinyl, vacuum tubes, and digital technology, but the trick lies in the implementation of those technologies. For example, your points about 16 bit/44.1khz redbook CD are pretty accurate. The problem isn't the CD medium, it's the way that it's used. Your point about "loudness wars" is at the heart of the matter, and digital music sources of all kinds fall prey to this problem. But if good and proper recording techniques are employed, CD is a wonderful medium. I encourage people to search for CDs done my "Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab" for examples of how good the CD medium can truly be. These discs are the best of digital, along with the best of analog qualities all in one package. There's a reason many titles on Ebay are $300 - they are out of print and the most desirable sounding versions available in these specific titles.
I am also a huge fan of vacuum tube technology - especially when mated with equipment that benefits most from that technology. High efficiency horn speakers - like the vintage Klipschorn and their brethren (Belle Klipsch, LaScala, and Cornwall) fit with good vacuum tube amps and preamps like a glove. Likewise with the vintage JBL. When good tube gear and horn speakers are mated with vinyl and a good table/tonearm rig, it approaches the sublime.
I also like some of the tube buffered digital equipment produced in the last 15 years - one of my favorites being the Ah! "Njoe Tjoeb" 4000, a modified Marantz player with a pair of 6dj8/6922 tubes on the output stage. A critical benefit of vacuum tube gear is the ability to "roll" tubes - trying different preferred tubes in the circuit - to find that ideal balance of accuracy - lack of bloom and lack of "rolloff" of the high frequencies, yet with that oh-so desirable "continuous-ness" that we want out of high quality analog. That's the aspect of vacuum tubes that I appreciate most - that idea that you are listening to a "steady flowing stream" of music and not a piece of equipment. That particular player has the benefit of "vinyl-izing" the CD to truly make the most of the CD medium. Even for a guy who loves vinyl, I use the Ah! machine more than any other source.
Vacuum tube technology is usually best experienced with vintage samples from the heyday of that technology - late 1950's and early 1960s examples. Telefunken, Amperex, Mullard, GEC, Tung-Sol, RCA. The current Chinese an Russian production just isn't the same, although they are getting better in some specific instances.
The hi-res digital stuff never really had the opportunity to show what it could potentially do, because most of the recording techniques were cheapened sufficiently as to render the hi-res stuff useless. Most music today is compressed and mastered for use in Ipods and smartphones, the most hideous devices known to mankind ever to be used for listening to music. When 90% of music buyers will not bother to play that music through anything much better than an Ipod, there's no reason for music companies to do anything better with the releases. When those same low quality masters are then translated to vinyl, that's a waste of that medium, too. I thought the resurgence of vinyl would mean a return to more analog thinking recording techniques, and a return to the meaning of "dynamic range", but I must say that so far I'm extremely disappointed. The only thing I can say on this is that it is up to us to demand better, and to place emphasis on recording quality whenever possible when making music purchase decisions - no matter what the medium.
Sorry I went on a little too long and maybe went a bit off topic, but I think these are the reasons why I prefer vinyl.
Wonderful. Thank you! The records I have are old and were improperly stored, so sometimes I can hear a little bit of warping and such. I'm looking forward to getting something new so I can hear what it sounds like fresh out of the sleeve. Also, do you think that using the aux output on my turntable to plug it into a set of speakers affects the sound much, since it's then kinda being converted to digital (I assume)? Or is it only whether the source is analog/digital that matters?
I was wondering if I should get a Crosley and big speakers or little speakers.
Wonderful. Thank you! The records I have are old and were improperly stored, so sometimes I can hear a little bit of warping and such. I'm looking forward to getting something new so I can hear what it sounds like fresh out of the sleeve. Also, do you think that using the aux output on my turntable to plug it into a set of speakers affects the sound much, since it's then kinda being converted to digital (I assume)? Or is it only whether the source is analog/digital that matters?
I was wondering if I should get a Crosley and big speakers or little speakers.
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
Post by trimalchio on Jan 14, 2015 19:38:32 GMT -5
I've gotten really into Third Man's Vault since seeing Jack White at Roo this year. Got his Roo package and ordered the one just released that was live from the Amazon.
I don't see much of a point in just getting vinyl for regular albums but something unique like these packages really appeals to me. I know there are lots of unique items on record store day, but I was wondering if there was anything else like the Third Man Vault where you can get unique live shows and things like that? Thanks.
Who makes guacamole happen!?!? Does a tabloid like the University of Oklahoma student paper make guacamole happen or do ME AND YOU make it exist? Just cause they write about it doesn't make guacamole exist - ME AND YOU MAKE IT EXIST!
Post by Vinnie the Eel on Jan 19, 2015 7:37:18 GMT -5
Had a pretty successful day hunting at a local record show...picked up Bob Weir "Ace", the 1971 Winwood compilation of his early work, Baker Gurvitz Army, and Otis Redding "Love Man." I also got roped in by that glorious green vinyl on the Decemberists facebook post and pre-ordered that new album too. It's gonna look so pretty when it's spinning!
anyone who's considering joining vinyl me please, I just got this email:
"In 24 hours we're announcing Father John Misty's highly-anticipated sophomore album 'I Love You, Honeybear' as our featured record of the month for February.... BUT, before we do that we wanted to tell you first and give you a chance to sign up as spots are limited and will be going real, real fast.
February VMP Package Features: - 2LP, clear vinyl (pressed at RTI) - Song-by-song listening instructions - Custom postcard designed by J. Tillman (FJM) - Fold-out lyric sheet - 12"x12" original art print by Emma Tillman"
anyone who's considering joining vinyl me please, I just got this email:
"In 24 hours we're announcing Father John Misty's highly-anticipated sophomore album 'I Love You, Honeybear' as our featured record of the month for February.... BUT, before we do that we wanted to tell you first and give you a chance to sign up as spots are limited and will be going real, real fast.
February VMP Package Features: - 2LP, clear vinyl (pressed at RTI) - Song-by-song listening instructions - Custom postcard designed by J. Tillman (FJM) - Fold-out lyric sheet - 12"x12" original art print by Emma Tillman"
yep. I gotta sign up.
Is this different than the release that Father John Misty will be selling on his own? I was looking at the pre-order through his official site/store recently but if this is the same I may be inclined to sign up.
anyone who's considering joining vinyl me please, I just got this email:
"In 24 hours we're announcing Father John Misty's highly-anticipated sophomore album 'I Love You, Honeybear' as our featured record of the month for February.... BUT, before we do that we wanted to tell you first and give you a chance to sign up as spots are limited and will be going real, real fast.
February VMP Package Features: - 2LP, clear vinyl (pressed at RTI) - Song-by-song listening instructions - Custom postcard designed by J. Tillman (FJM) - Fold-out lyric sheet - 12"x12" original art print by Emma Tillman"
yep. I gotta sign up.
Is this different than the release that Father John Misty will be selling on his own? I was looking at the pre-order through his official site/store recently but if this is the same I may be inclined to sign up.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Jan 21, 2015 15:07:13 GMT -5
I think the VMP release is closer to the standard LP. But even with that, I'm curious as to whether you get the same item or if it's a special pressing that can ONLY be got through Vinyl My Please.
Standard LP Details: • 2xLP Black vinyl • Gatefold jacket • I Love You, Honeybear Poster • Listening Instructions • Download code
Deluxe LP Details: • Limited Edition 2xLP Tri-color vinyl • Dioramic Meta - Musical Funtime Gatefold Jacket • I Love You, Honeybear Poster • Listening Instructions • Download code
I think the VMP release is closer to the standard LP. But even with that, I'm curious as to whether you get the same item or if it's a special pressing that can ONLY be got through Vinyl My Please.
Standard LP Details: • 2xLP Black vinyl • Gatefold jacket • I Love You, Honeybear Poster • Listening Instructions • Download code
Deluxe LP Details: • Limited Edition 2xLP Tri-color vinyl • Dioramic Meta - Musical Funtime Gatefold Jacket • I Love You, Honeybear Poster • Listening Instructions • Download code
Most of that sounds included in the VMP deal.
I'm pretty sure it's a special VMP pressing - from their site: "Limited edition LP pressed exclusively for Vinyl Me, Please members"
Is the Vinyl Me Please signup over in 24 hours? Or do we have until the end of the month?
They're publicly announcing that FJM is their february package in 24 hours. I'm assuming you can sign up until the fulfill the number of editions they have available.
also. after looking a bit more, it does appear that the art print, cocktail recipe, and vinyl are all specific to VMP - they're all parts that come with each month's package. fuck it. I'm gonna do it.
Is the Vinyl Me Please signup over in 24 hours? Or do we have until the end of the month?
They're publicly announcing that FJM is their february package in 24 hours. I'm assuming you can sign up until the fulfill the number of editions they have available.
also. after looking a bit more, it does appear that the art print, cocktail recipe, and vinyl are all specific to VMP - they're all parts that come with each month's package. fuck it. I'm gonna do it.
The cocktail recipe definitely is exclusive but I was assuming the art print would be the same one mentioned in the regular package as a "poster". Sometimes the posters included with albums I've gotten are just small record-sized squares to make shipping/packaging easier.
Either way....it's a cool deal....just can't swing it right now. We'll see how low my money looks after I get paid and pay bills on Friday.
Is the Vinyl Me Please signup over in 24 hours? Or do we have until the end of the month?
They're publicly announcing that FJM is their february package in 24 hours. I'm assuming you can sign up until the fulfill the number of editions they have available.
also. after looking a bit more, it does appear that the art print, cocktail recipe, and vinyl are all specific to VMP - they're all parts that come with each month's package. fuck it. I'm gonna do it.
Would you mind sharing your extra features on here once you get it? I ordered the Deluxe addition and could put up some pictures of that in return.
They're publicly announcing that FJM is their february package in 24 hours. I'm assuming you can sign up until the fulfill the number of editions they have available.
also. after looking a bit more, it does appear that the art print, cocktail recipe, and vinyl are all specific to VMP - they're all parts that come with each month's package. fuck it. I'm gonna do it.
Would you mind sharing your extra features on here once you get it? I ordered the Deluxe addition and could put up some pictures of that in return.
I want a Father John Misty cocktail!
for sure!! I would like to see how they compare to one another.
Would you mind sharing your extra features on here once you get it? I ordered the Deluxe addition and could put up some pictures of that in return.
I want a Father John Misty cocktail!
for sure!! I would like to see how they compare to one another.
Sweet! Thanks! I can't wait to get the record and listen to it. I've promised myself the first listen will be on my turntable so I've avoided the album leak like the plague.
for sure!! I would like to see how they compare to one another.
Sweet! Thanks! I can't wait to get the record and listen to it. I've promised myself the first listen will be on my turntable so I've avoided the album leak like the plague.
I just got this in an email from CoS, thought some of you may be interested. it's kind of a promotional-ish piece, but it looks like there could be some interesting stuff in there. I haven't read it yet (only skimmed), but here's the synopsis:
Everything you need to know about Vinyl
Vinyl is back, and musicians and music consumers alike are clamoring for music on the format. Whether you’re considering a vinyl release or interested in learning the history of the medium and what goes into making music sound great on vinyl, this guide is for you.
Covered topics include: History and how vinyl works Recording and mixing tips Battling inner groove distortion Recommended track lengths Design and production And much more!
It’s a free guide that will provide a detailed look at the resurgence of vinyl and what makes it such a great medium for your music.
for sure!! I would like to see how they compare to one another.
Sweet! Thanks! I can't wait to get the record and listen to it. I've promised myself the first listen will be on my turntable so I've avoided the album leak like the plague.
put my order in today! says they send their packages out around the 10th of every month, so it'll be a few weeks
ALSO. I got my third man records order confirmation today for the new vault package. wahoo! <3
Finally got around to ordering Pantha Du Prince's "Black Noise" off of Ebay... granted, I'm about 10 dollars more than I would have when I originally tried to get it from Discogs, but the prices on the vinyl have gone up it seems. Can't wait to get this one in.