Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
im not saying either of them should be moved. i just feel like they can sign manny for cheaper and they have plenty of multi position guys that it would work fine.
Unanimous? Take away his cutter and Rivera is a below average pitcher. And yes I'm being sarcastic. Who doesn't hate the Yankees? The bigger crime today is the loss of Miller Park in Milwaukee. It will soon be American Family Insurance Park. Puke.
Mike mussina is pretty middling. Hall of very good for sure. (I always liked him though, so good for him).
An 83 WAR pitcher is pretty middling? 5X All Star, 7X Gold Glove, 6 top 5 Cy Young finishes. He's a surefire HOFer. The only reason it took this long was due to the crowded ballot we've seen over the last several years.
5 all stars isn't much, no cy youngs, 3.68 era is fine, didn't hit 300 or 3k. and the other three guys in this field being halladay, clemens (deservedly snubbed), schilling (honestly not sure why he's not in other than politics which is pretty dumb), he's just leaving something to be desired.
Mike mussina is pretty middling. Hall of very good for sure. (I always liked him though, so good for him).
An 83 WAR pitcher is pretty middling? 5X All Star, 7X Gold Glove, 6 top 5 Cy Young finishes. He's a surefire HOFer. The only reason it took this long was due to the crowded ballot we've seen over the last several years.
And the ballot these next few years doesn't have quite the same logjam.
The average bWAR for a HOF starting pitcher 73.4.
Mussina also had a HOF Monitor number* of 121, making him nearly a lock at some point. He had a Black Ink score** of 15, making him 161st all-time among all HOF-eligible pitchers. His Gray Ink*** score is 250, making him 22nd. Mussina's JAWS score**** was 63.8, compared to average of 61.8 among the 63 starting pitchers in the Hall.
Halladay's numbers in each of those categories are actually lower than Mussina's.
*A metric developed by Bill James to calculate the likelihood a player makes the Hall. 100 is described as a "good possibility" and 130 as a "virtual cinch."
**The number of times a player lead baseball in certain categories.
***The number of times a player was in the top 10 in certain categories.
****A metric calculating a player's Hall "worthiness," averaging a player's career WAR and their seven-year peak WAR.
Post by actually @fortyfive33 now on Jan 22, 2019 20:46:18 GMT -5
Also I'm calling it now: next year's class will be Jeter + Walker. Schilling, Bonds and Clemens get passed over again. They'll all make it in at some point tho.
Also I'm calling it now: next year's class will be Jeter + Walker. Schilling, Bonds and Clemens get passed over again. They'll all make it in at some point tho.
Whichever one of Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling gets to year 10 first - I think all three go in that year
Post by potentpotables on Jan 23, 2019 7:35:42 GMT -5
I subscribe to Joe Sheehan's baseball newsletter - I'd recommend that you all do it too, it's like $40/year or something like that - and here's what he sent last night about Moose:
It’s not that Mike Mussina should be a Hall of Famer. It’s that there never should have been a question, never should have been a discussion, of his credentials. He is an all-time great on par with Bob Gibson and Nolan Ryan, players who were first-ballot inductees. Mussina isn’t marginal, he isn’t debatable, he isn’t someone whose greatness requires time to appreciate. He’s one of the game’s greatest pitchers, and that he is still on the ballot is a scathing indictment of the voters.
You don’t even need WAR. Just look at the stats we’ve been keeping for more than 100 years. Mussina is 31st all-time in starts, 32nd in wins, 61st in innings, 19th in strikeouts. He is just 163rd in ERA, a figure we know is heavily influenced by era; by ERA+, which makes adjustments for run environment, he’s 49th.
Mussina’s case, though, runs deeper than his WAR. He has a fantastic postseason record. Playing in a hitters’ era in which the postseason came to dominate how we evaluate and remember teams, Mussina threw 139 2/3 innings with a 3.42 ERA (3.00 ERA in 18 World Series innings). He had more opportunity to pitch well, and he pitched well. Mussina had a number of incredible postseason moments. Mussina combines one of the best statistical careers in history with an excellent record of coming up big in championship spots.
Mussina isn’t close to the line. He isn’t a borderline candidate. He’s one of the 25 best pitchers in baseball history, and one of the 15 best pitchers since integration. The failure of the voters to recognize his greatness has nothing to do with said greatness. It’s been about a blind spot in the evaluation process, a failure to let the standards evolve with the game.
That needs to end now. A Hall without Mussina fails in its mission of inducting the greatest players in baseball history. This has already gone on four years longer than it should have. Mike Mussina should be on the dais in upstate New York in the summer of 2018, not because he accumulated WAR, not because Jim Bunning is in and he isn’t, but because Mussina is one of the greatest pitchers the game has ever seen.
5 all stars isn't much, no cy youngs, 3.68 era is fine, didn't hit 300 or 3k. and the other three guys in this field being halladay, clemens (deservedly snubbed), schilling (honestly not sure why he's not in other than politics which is pretty dumb), he's just leaving something to be desired.
Why are you still counting wins? You still using a landline too?
Post by Vinnie the Eel on Jan 23, 2019 9:42:30 GMT -5
If Halladay gets in, Schilling has to.
Can't see Walker getting in next year, but I think they'll put him (and McGriff) in with that new committee that puts pretty good players in (e.g. Baines, Smith)
Post by Vinnie the Eel on Jan 23, 2019 9:57:53 GMT -5
Mike Mussina was one of the best, most consistent pitchers of his time. He's a no doubt hall of famer. He was amazing to watch while I was growing up.
And I say this after spending years despising him after he moved to the MFY. It was cool that we knocked him around a lot after he moved there, though.
That's dandy but he's not better than Curt. It's cool he's a stand up guy but he's not better.
i kinda stopped following baseball when phils started to tank, so I'm not as knowledgeable.
Curt strikes me as the get in eventually kinda dude since by all accounts he's a fuckin lunatic now, which I guess is part of the problem with HOF voters.