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I'm so glad the Nationals got out of the Upton games. Not worth the money. Nats got their leadoff man in Denard Span for way cheaper and he's locked up for a couple of years.
Words cannot express how happy I am that Span is out of the AL. He absolutely destroyed our pitching staff in his time with the Twins.
Mar 14 Sheepdogs/Fitz & The Tantrums/City & Colour (Austin)
Mar 15 Jim James (Austin)
Apr 26 Jim James (Boston)
May 4 Clutch & The Sword (Portland ME)
Jun 8 DMB (Hartford)
Jun 21 Jim James (Northampton MA)
Jul 27-28 Newport Folk
Oct 25-27 MOEMS
At least it's not Hamilton or something that stupid.
They signed Napoli and Victorino to ridiculous contracts and now they're after weenieey. I don't know if spending money on these kind of guys and trading half their minor league system for a 38 year old knuckleballer is in the Red Sox best interest right now.
At least it's not Hamilton or something that stupid.
They signed Napoli and Victorino to ridiculous contracts and now they're after weenieey. I don't know if spending money on these kind of guys and trading half their minor league system for a 38 year old knuckleballer is in the Red Sox best interest right now.
Are those deals that ridiculous, though? Have you looked at the FA market recently? Any starting player with some redeeming quality is worth $10 million now.
They're basically making a gamble that Victorino (who has the potential to be a monster in Fenway) can get healthy and Napoli can revert to his 2011 form. Playing in that stadium it's not out of the question.
And they're not going after weenieey. They kicked the tires on a Cy Young winner, not the most outrageous play in the world. The Mets gave them their asking price (which is too high) and they walked away.
I realize you're probably a Yankee fan, but Boston made two solid, if unspectacular, moves.
They signed Napoli and Victorino to ridiculous contracts and now they're after weenieey. I don't know if spending money on these kind of guys and trading half their minor league system for a 38 year old knuckleballer is in the Red Sox best interest right now.
Are those deals that ridiculous, though? Have you looked at the FA market recently? Any starting player with some redeeming quality is worth $10 million now.
They're basically making a gamble that Victorino (who has the potential to be a monster in Fenway) can get healthy and Napoli can revert to his 2011 form. Playing in that stadium it's not out of the question.
And they're not going after weenieey. They kicked the tires on a Cy Young winner, not the most outrageous play in the world. The Mets gave them their asking price (which is too high) and they walked away.
I realize you're probably a Yankee fan, but Boston made two solid, if unspectacular, moves.
Napoli contract was good, Victorino was awful. Awful.
Are those deals that ridiculous, though? Have you looked at the FA market recently? Any starting player with some redeeming quality is worth $10 million now.
They're basically making a gamble that Victorino (who has the potential to be a monster in Fenway) can get healthy and Napoli can revert to his 2011 form. Playing in that stadium it's not out of the question.
And they're not going after weenieey. They kicked the tires on a Cy Young winner, not the most outrageous play in the world. The Mets gave them their asking price (which is too high) and they walked away.
I realize you're probably a Yankee fan, but Boston made two solid, if unspectacular, moves.
Napoli contract was good, Victorino was awful. Awful.
If he stays healthy, the Victorino deal will be fine.
Categorizing anything that Boston does lately as "solid" is generous. Even though those two moves look decent enough on paper, Boston is a tumultous situation. You're hiring a manager from a team you would have considered 'below' you, with no sort of resume of success. And in the mean time the rest of your division (aside from maybe the yankees) is making significant strides to improve their teams. Two of them with arguably a top 5 or top 10 manager in the game (I'd argue that both Showalter and Maddon have a legitimate arguement as top 5). Really it's not about the two signings so much as it's about a change of front office attitude. Other front offices in the divison are working on keeping successful momentum rolling, the Boston front office is working on damage control to please their fans. Not a good way to compete no matter who you sign, even if they sign Hamilton
Categorizing anything that Boston does lately as "solid" is generous. Even though those two moves look decent enough on paper, Boston is a tumultous situation. You're hiring a manager from a team you would have considered 'below' you, with no sort of resume of success. And in the mean time the rest of your division (aside from maybe the yankees) is making significant strides to improve their teams. Two of them with arguably a top 5 or top 10 manager in the game (I'd argue that both Showalter and Maddon have a legitimate arguement as top 5). Really it's not about the two signings so much as it's about a change of front office attitude. Other front offices in the divison are working on keeping successful momentum rolling, the Boston front office is working on damage control to please their fans. Not a good way to compete no matter who you sign, even if they sign Hamilton
Are you a Boston fan, by any chance?
I follow that team much more closely than I'd like (product of living with a die-hard fan), but I think their new GM/team president is doing a good job. Unloaded a ton of bad contracts, is going to let the young guys play, signing complementary veterans, and let's not forget that they do have a very good young core set of players.
I think Boston is a couple of moves from being right back to contending for a playoff spot.
No to the Boston fan part...if you knew what team I was a fan of you'd kick me out of this thread, so I guess I better make this count. I like the unloading they did, yes, but to me Victorino has always been a tad bit overrated, especially in the past three years. He's always been a product of his environment (always a good 4th or 5th guy in the lineup, never a standout). I just don't think those two signings do THAT much for them. And I really don't think the Farrell signing does much for them either. I will agree though, I like their young kids, I just think they should endure a couple of years of growth rather than waste money on those two. Just don't think those signings are the right fit for them. And I'm not a believer in Hamilton going to a team in turmoil. If anything he brings more turmoil, he's better suited in a team that is already set in stone as a contender or a slumper he can help turn around (Seattle?).
They signed Napoli and Victorino to ridiculous contracts and now they're after weenieey. I don't know if spending money on these kind of guys and trading half their minor league system for a 38 year old knuckleballer is in the Red Sox best interest right now.
Are those deals that ridiculous, though? Have you looked at the FA market recently? Any starting player with some redeeming quality is worth $10 million now.
They're basically making a gamble that Victorino (who has the potential to be a monster in Fenway) can get healthy and Napoli can revert to his 2011 form. Playing in that stadium it's not out of the question.
And they're not going after weenieey. They kicked the tires on a Cy Young winner, not the most outrageous play in the world. The Mets gave them their asking price (which is too high) and they walked away.
I realize you're probably a Yankee fan, but Boston made two solid, if unspectacular, moves.
I'm actually a huge Mets fan. I hate the Yankees and I'm indifferent towards Boston.
For a team with a very good shot in 2013, I don't think those deals are that ridiculous. Three years for Victorino and Napoli actually is pretty reasonable, I just think the money is a little high. However, with the Yankees, Orioles, Rays, and new-look Blue Jays, I just don't see how Boston is going to be a legitimate contender this year. I don't know if spending $40 million apiece on two 32 year old players is best for them given their current situation, although the contracts aren't that long.
We'll see, these moves may make Ben Cherington look like a genius in the next couple years.
The second part of that statement is why I think the deals don't make sense. How much of contenders are they really going to be in 2013? And yes, there would still be two years left on those deals, but I'd have to think the rest of that division is going to be pretty solid for those two years as well. A lot of youth in Baltimore and Tampa (still, somehow). And the Blue Jays have become legitimate spenders with the Yankees (though not quite up to that level). And btw for the Yanks' fans in this thread is the Hal budget level really going to happen?
No to the Boston fan part...if you knew what team I was a fan of you'd kick me out of this thread, so I guess I better make this count. I like the unloading they did, yes, but to me Victorino has always been a tad bit overrated, especially in the past three years. He's always been a product of his environment (always a good 4th or 5th guy in the lineup, never a standout). I just don't think those two signings do THAT much for them. And I really don't think the Farrell signing does much for them either. I will agree though, I like their young kids, I just think they should endure a couple of years of growth rather than waste money on those two. Just don't think those signings are the right fit for them. And I'm not a believer in Hamilton going to a team in turmoil. If anything he brings more turmoil, he's better suited in a team that is already set in stone as a contender or a slumper he can help turn around (Seattle?).
I actually agree with most of this, I just think those two signings doa little bit more for them than you do. I don't think those are primary pieces, those are only good if they're complementary. You can't build around Napoli/Victorino, but I could easily see those two hitting 55 combined home runs combined which, for $13 mil/each is pretty good (I realize I'm being incredibly over-simplistic here, but you get what I'm saying).
I don't think they should go after Hamilton, but Hamilton would just eviscerate baseballs up there. He can't lead the clubhouse, which is the biggest concern in Boston, so I agree it might be a bad idea for him to go there. I think Boston's pitching rebounds in a big way and they contend for a WC spot in 2013, so if that's the case then these signings were worthwhile. If they're the AL East's version of the Mets? Yeah, then those signings are terrible.
And you can tell me what team you root for, I only hate on Yankee/Braves/Phillies fans that irrationally hate on the Mets.
(This answer could be directed at Keystone as well)
Keystone, I genuinely thought you were a Yankees fan. As a fellow Mets fan, how excited are you that we currently have ONE outfielder on the roster? And keep in mind that it's Lucas Duda and he broke his wrist moving furniture last month.
When I scrolled over the thread I thought it said "No Cardinals fans allowed" so I got scared. A St. Louis fan from Chicago, it's a rough world out there for me. And I think we're in agreement about the Boston situation for the most part. I just know a Boston fan that was ECSTATIC about the signings, and I just thought, seriously? Not that huge for your team. Decent at best, but not huge.
Post by FatKeystone on Dec 6, 2012 18:27:58 GMT -5
Boston needs to overhaul their pitching staff this year to even consider contending. Except for maybe Lester, there is no one there that they can count on to even be decent. The bullpen needs work too. That's a lot to be done in one offseason, even two, and the combination of that and being in an absolutely stacked division doesn't bode well for the Sox.
That's why I thought their moves didn't make much sense. That's a lot of money to spend on one slightly above average player (Victorino) and one injury-prone catcher/1B (Napoli) when your pitching staff needs so much work.
The red sox have done what they had to do in a weak market, and the entire season depends on whether lester and buchholz can be "better than league-average" as opposed to "tire fire". If they can package salty for a decent #3 starter, I don't see any reason why they can't compete for one of the two wild card spots.
Remember that last year's trainwreck still had the 5th most runs scored in the league. Offense is not the glaring issue here. I'm not thrilled about the victorino signing, but i don't see what's so funny about it to some people
The red sox have done what they had to do in a weak market, and the entire season depends on whether lester and buchholz can be "better than league-average" as opposed to "tire fire". If they can package salty for a decent #3 starter, I don't see any reason why they can't compete for one of the two wild card spots.
Remember that last year's trainwreck still had the 5th most runs scored in the league. Offense is not the glaring issue here. I'm not thrilled about the victorino signing, but i don't see what's so funny about it to some people
I don't think it's an horrendous signing, it just doesn't make much sense to me. If the Sox are serious about competing this year, why not spend that money on pitching? You said it yourself, offense isn't much of an issue.
I don't think it's an horrendous signing, it just doesn't make much sense to me. If the Sox are serious about competing this year, why not spend that money on pitching? You said it yourself, offense isn't much of an issue.
I think I heard somewhere that the money they've spent so far this offseason still doesn't equal the amount of money that was left on josh beckett's contract. There's plenty of money left for pitching. Not that it doesn't hurt my heart when I see the nats grab haren on a one-year deal...
Read the first few paragraphs here if you want to see a journalist say the things I'm saying, but more journalist-y
Good points. Victorino's and Napoli's veteran leadership should help the young guys on this team as the Sox transition into dipping into their minor league system. If Boston has the money they claim they do, then these contracts are okay as long as they still address other issues.
The thing I disagree with that the article seems to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that these moves are essentially enough. It mentioned that Boston's season relies on if their injured/underperforming players from last year can return to form. But that pitching staff still needs a lot of work. If they still have the money to land some quality pitching then they need to do it soon before the market turns dry. Otherwise, I don't see how they're going to be able to compete this year.
Read the first few paragraphs here if you want to see a journalist say the things I'm saying, but more journalist-y
Good points. Victorino's and Napoli's veteran leadership should help the young guys on this team as the Sox transition into dipping into their minor league system. If Boston has the money they claim they do, then these contracts are okay as long as they still address other issues.
The thing I disagree with that the article seems to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that these moves are essentially enough. It mentioned that Boston's season relies on if their injured/underperforming players from last year can return to form. But that pitching staff still needs a lot of work. If they still have the money to land some quality pitching then they need to do it soon before the market turns dry. Otherwise, I don't see how they're going to be able to compete this year.
I think you're underselling their rotation, to be honest. If Lester bounces back (and I have no reason to think he won't), they will have a 1-3 all under 30 and all likely to throw 200 innings. Doubront isn't getting much love, but he's projected by Bill James to go for 200+ and a 3.7 ERA, which for an AL #3 starter is pretty good. If they can find a good 4th starter and trot John Lackey's corpse out there as the 5th (and when you take his contract out of the equation, Lackey's better than most 5th starters), their rotation isn't that bad. Will it blow you away? No, but they have a lot of young arms that could potentially be called up.
I'll agree they need to make another move for a starter, but they're not screwed if they don't.
Good points. Victorino's and Napoli's veteran leadership should help the young guys on this team as the Sox transition into dipping into their minor league system. If Boston has the money they claim they do, then these contracts are okay as long as they still address other issues.
The thing I disagree with that the article seems to be saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that these moves are essentially enough. It mentioned that Boston's season relies on if their injured/underperforming players from last year can return to form. But that pitching staff still needs a lot of work. If they still have the money to land some quality pitching then they need to do it soon before the market turns dry. Otherwise, I don't see how they're going to be able to compete this year.
I think you're underselling their rotation, to be honest. If Lester bounces back (and I have no reason to think he won't), they will have a 1-3 all under 30 and all likely to throw 200 innings. Doubront isn't getting much love, but he's projected by Bill James to go for 200+ and a 3.7 ERA, which for an AL #3 starter is pretty good. If they can find a good 4th starter and trot John Lackey's corpse out there as the 5th (and when you take his contract out of the equation, Lackey's better than most 5th starters), their rotation isn't that bad. Will it blow you away? No, but they have a lot of young arms that could potentially be called up.
I'll agree they need to make another move for a starter, but they're not screwed if they don't.
Agree. The Sox rotation will be fine if they stay healthy. They just added to their bullpen and got two quality position players. Add to that that they got rid of the biggest numbskull ever to manage the Red Sox and it's all good. Except that I'm a Yankee fan.
