And that's pretty much it. I have Mets-specific sites that are great, but those obviously wouldn't interest you very much.
Speaking of my Muts, Zack Wheeler looks like the real deal. I watched every one of his pitches from a recent spring training session and he's got some nasty stuff, I still can't believe the Giants dumped him for Beltran and a title run.
How do you know it's going to be a good year? When the most excited you get about your team when a pitcher who will start the year in AAA throws a bullpen session and he doesn't hurt himself.
Me. We're going to need him when Johan and Gee inevitably go down.
Really, as long as Neise, Harvey, and Wheeler progress without any injury I'll be happy on the year.
Chris Young, the guy who has started 42 games in the past four full seasons, who had an ERA over 4.00 in a fly-ball park (he's a fly ball pitcher)?
The Mets need him? Starting pitching is the only area on the team that doesn't need an upgrade. Maybe infield if you like the whole "Wright and a bunch of young guys trying to make the wildcard" storyline (I don't).
B/c its a Minor League deal - and we let him go to a rival. And last time I checked a 4.15 ERA is respectable. Especially for a guy that would essentially be a spare part.
He is a broken-down, nearly 7-foot-tall starting pitcher who has never pitched 180 innings in his entire career (he got to 179 in 2006). His 4.15 ERA is NOT respectable when he's a fly ball pitcher pitching in one of 2 or 3 parks that can make him effective. Granted, he went to one of the other 3 parks that can make him effective (the other being in San Diego....hm....notice a trend here?), but he's a fly ball pitcher pitching in cavernous ballparks and still posting a below-average ERA/WHIP in a weaker league.
Sorry, anyone upset over the loss of a guy who was never anything more than hurt or mediocre with the Mets is just looking for a reason to whine.
I have nothing to add to any stats or player discussion in this thread, I just want to say I am so freakin' excited for this season. I remember when the Red Sox ALWAYS sucked, so going to games packed with the fans that are like myself is going be a refreshing change of pace.
His ERA on the Mets in 24 starts is 3.78. Naturally, the logical thing to do is have guys like Chris Schwinden in triple-a instead. And the fact that we both know who Chris Schwinden is...well, that's all the argument I need for why we should be signing guys like Chris Young to our Triple-a squad instead of letting him go to a division rival at the same price. Oyyyyyy.
You're ridiculous. Chris Young is not good. He's average when healthy, which is almost never.
And this "he went to a division rival! OH NO!" stuff is relevant.....why? Pencil the Muts in for a 4th place finish and look for improvement from the young guys. You want to lock up a roster spot on the AAA team and the "next in line" pitching role for when Johan takes a midseason vacation? Why? How is that a better plan than using a guy like Wheeler, who is dominating spring training right now, let him work sparingly in AAA, then bring him up in June after his arbitration rights are safe for another season? Baseball-wise you're giving your future ace MLB experience and without having to pitch against opposing teams' #1's. Business-wise you're getting your young, potentially star starting pitcher MLB experience without sacrificing your future control of his financial state (which is why you bring him up in June - or July, not positive on the date- which lets the Mets control him for another year before having to give him his first real extension.
And Flanz, you're making the argument for me. The FACT the we do have a pitchers park is EXACTLY why we should be bringing back a guy like Chris Young who, when on the mound, has a 3.78 ERA for the Mets. Sheesh.
This shows how little you really comprehend about the total business of baseball. Would Chris Young, if starting a full year in 2013, be better than Zack Wheeler pitching 3 months before being shut down in September? Possibly. But a marginal increase in performance at the 5th SP spot when the team has little chance of competing for the 2nd wildcard, let alone a division title? Gross misappropriation of time and money.
You've locked yourself into this idea that the 5th starter has to be a veteran, which on a rebuilding team makes literally zero sense whatsoever.
And I don't need to PM to pull your pants down in Mets debate. I may hate the owners with every fiber of my being, but I know more about this team than lifelong fans twice my age. That doesn't make me cool, it's actually excruciatingly pathetic, but it's what I do.
Chris Young sucks, he'll start maybe 10 games before getting hurt, if he even starts for the big league club since right now he's the 7th in line for SP's (at best).
That's one hell of an assumption there, Flanz, that no Mets starting pitcher will go down early in the season/ before June. In fact, it's a distinct possibility this will happen. Johan is an incredibly high injury risk. He hasn't thrown for 200 innings since 2008!!! Meanwhile, Dillon Gee was shut down last season for surgery due to a BLOOD COT in his THROWING SHOULDER. And there is also Shaun Marcum who was so healthy he only had 21 starts last year and had to sign a 1-year "show me what you got" deal with the Mets.
Listen, sh*tf*ck, cutesie little boldings to insult me won't win you an argument. But if that's what you're left to resort to, fine, it just proves you're a mindless doofus who suckles at the ESPN teet and has no working knowledge of the sport.
I literally just said Johan isn't pitching an entire season.
Yes, Dillon Gee had a blood clot, a freak situation that has little-to-no chance of recurring. He's also miles better than Young is right now.
Comparing Mr. 42 starts in 4 years Chris Young to Marcum, who had over 150 innings four straight years before last season (124...still more than Young). Marcum is clearly more durable than Young.
Oh, and this is all assuming that YOUNG WON'T GET HURT HIMSELF. If I was a betting man, I'd bet on him being hurt in spring training, having a slow recovery before throwing some minor league games in June. Great stuff, the guy is a walking china doll.
NOW - let's assume on the off chance that ONE pitcher gets hurt before June. We aren't going to bring up Wheeler until after we save his arbitration rights for one more season. So Wheeler is NOT the next in line. It's Jeremy Hefner (5.39 ERA in 13 starts last year) or Schwinden (rather go to a dentist for 3 hours).
Meanwhile, Chris Young has a 3.78 ERA for the Mets in 24 starts the last 2 years.
Sure, let's assume that someone gets hurt, sore, tired, etc. You have Mejia, Hefner, Familia and Schwinden. I would prefer any of those guys start to Young. Mejia and Familia are potential future starters, and the other two are auditioning for the long reliever job over the long term. All four are better options than trotting out a guy who will be 34 in May who has pitched an average of 10 games over the past four seasons.
At no point did I suggest Chris Young should be our #5 starter. Please quote where I said that. My whole point is that he signed on a minor league deal with a rival to be a spot-starter which is EXACTLY what we need until Wheeler is available to be called up in June.
Ha, f*cking semantics, Jimmy. Are you joking? If he comes up to the team, he's the 5th starter. You're crying like a f*cking child over the potential to miss 1 or 2 starts?
Wow, the Mets lost a spot starter, who gives a flying f*ck? He's a spot starter for a reason, any over-exposure opens him up to getting shelled or getting hurt. But cry over spilled milk, whatever makes your pointless day better. YOU DON'T SIGN A GUY FOR TWO MONTHS ON THE CHANCE THAT HE "MIGHT" be needed. Just shut up already, this is pathetic.
Wow - EXACTLY what I want us to sign him for. A minor league contact for a pitcher to potentially make 10 starts until June in case a putz like Johan gets hurt in spring training. Then we can bring up our real #6 Zach Wheeler after we save a year of arbitration.
Then you're the Omar Minaya of Mets fans. There is no #6 pitcher. The Mets used a f*cking four man rotation last season, stop acting like the #6 starter is a real thing, it's idiotic.
I'm not arguing to argue, but you do this in every sport and I still don't believe you're even a Mets fan. You tell me about the Jets when you clearly don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. If I need to put it more bluntly: I have friends who work within the Mets' organization in the player development department, Chris Young was never even discussed since he's THIRTY FOUR in May, always hurt, not good anymore and the team has a ton of young pitching they need to sort through.
Post by Alberto Balsalm on Feb 22, 2013 14:43:57 GMT -5
Lol, is someone really arguing FOR Chris Young in here?
Chris Young is incredibly mediocre-to-bad. Bordering on useless. He is pretty much the definition of the faceless, nameless 'replacement level' player. There are a million other Chris Youngs out there.
The fact that paid MLB scouts only gave him a minor league deal should tell you what his value is. The guys fastball tops out at 87 and he gives up tons of home runs. He is 34 years old and hasn't even thrown a full seasons work in the last 3 years combined. Why anybody would be upset that their team didn't get him is beyond me, let alone getting into lengthy arguments about it on the internet. Hefner was considerably better than Chris Young last year anyway and he's 26 and Young is 34.
It's Chris Young, who cares. You have Jon Niese, Matt Harvey and Zack Wheeler. Chris Young would be the last of my concerns. I can't believe this is a real thing that is happening
Hefner was considerably better than Chris Young last year anyway
This statement is categorically false.
Young had an ERA of 4.15 in 20 starts after starting the year late recovering from shoulder surgery. He also finished the season strong with a 2.73 ERA in his last 5 starts. In 12/20 starts, he pitched at least 6.0 innings. [The man's career ERA is 3.79]. It doesn't matter that he's 34 or that he doesn't throw heat - he's a control pitcher. Jamie Moyer pitched till he was like 50.
Meanwhile, Hefner is a scrub with no pedigree whatsoever. He also had a 5.32 ERA in 13 starts last year...finishing the season with a 6.38 ERA in his last 5 starts. May god have mercy on his soul.
Mind you, I'm not arguing that Chris Young is going to be some comeback miracle story. But the point is that when a SP on the Mets inevitably gets injured this April/May - we are going to bleed losses when Hefner is on the mound. At least when Chris Young is on the hill, he gives his team a chance to win. Say what you want about his health, but the man gives his team a shot to win every time he steps on the mound. And that's all you can ask for in a spot-starter. With Hefner on the mound I might as well go watch bowling or something.
lol, because we all know ERA is the defining measurement of pitcher evaluation
K% Hefner - 17.4% Young - 16.2%
BB% Hefner - 4.6% Young - 7.3%
HR/FB% Hefner - 6.9% Young - 7.7%
FIP Hefner - 3.34 Young - 4.50
xFIP Hefner - 4.06 Young - 5.36
By pretty much all accounts, Hefner was the better pitcher last year. Not to mention he has an extra ~6 MPH on his fastball and is almost a decade younger. A far better choice than Chris Young and his damaged-beyond-all-repair shoulder
Post by Alberto Balsalm on Feb 22, 2013 19:25:35 GMT -5
Having a debate on the merits of Chris R. Young v. Jeremy Hefner may very well be the low point of my baseball fandom and writing career thus far, but Jimmyroo's comments were so absurd I just couldn't help myself
Lol - FIP is the most arbitrary statistic. It's (13*HR+3*BB-2*K)/IP. That's absolutely ridiculous. There is no justification to weigh HR times 13 instead of any other number. Same for BB times 3 or K times 2. It's completely arbitrary.
Also, you're using K% and FIP to evaluate a fly ball-contact pitcher? Brilliant.
Last time I checked, the game was won by the team that gave up less runs than they scored.
You're right. Damn those mathematicians and their years of research and data. They're probably just pulling those numbers out of their ass
There really is no point in continuing this discussion if you are actually that dense to believe that mathematicians just made this stuff up to mess with people and that ERA is a better evaluator than more advanced metrics.
Also nobody uses or cares about whatever that stat you used was. It seems like you were trying to reference a WAR-type stat, though, which Hefner accumulated over twice as much of (1.2 to 0.5) in less service time last year