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Well said kiko, Morgan Freeman mentioned exactly what you are saying.
I just thought I'd point out that it wasn't Morgan Freeman who said that and it was a hoax, written by someone else.
Though, that doesn't mean what was written is wrong. I thought the quote/passage made great points. I just wanted to debunk the "Morgan Freeman" quote because I keep seeing people post it on Facebook and it's a pet peeve of mine to correct misinformation.
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Dec 16, 2012 20:05:16 GMT -5
"Gun culture" (using horn's term) is what I thought earlier today myself.
How we got here and what drove us to it is what my mind has been grappling with for 2 days now.
We arrived with guns and took this land from the Native Americans with the power of the almighty gun. The gun is the classic quintessential image of the Wild West. Our love for the gunslinger, the noon showdown, yada yada. All through America's history, development as a nation, I think because the gun has played such a vital role in "winning the west" and "winning the war" against the myriad of "savages" "enemies", the gun has become a very over romanticized (and deadly) symbol of our culture. Maybe even violence itself has become so imbued into our short but rather tumultuous history, it is in our collective identity.
I will continue to drive myself insane doing this, I know. American culture has been perplexing for me.
There are lot of differences between all cultures. To say that there is nothing fundamentally different between American society and other comparable societies is absolutely positively wrong. I lived in Ireland and Canada and my husband has lived all Europe. We are anthropologists with 15 years of training and fieldwork and we have both worked side-by-side with professionals who have studied societies from all over the world. There are tremendous monumental differences between all cultures, some of them blatantly obvious and many much more subtle but all significant to how a particular group of people exist, live, think, react, and create. If there were no differences, than fields like sociology and anthropology and linguistics wouldn't even exist.
This is an incredibly multifaceted issue. Not one thing and one thing only will be the end-all be-all solve-all. You are all right in your reflections on this matter. Everyone is going to feel strongly discussing such a horrific event but let's not get aggressive toward one another. There is truth to just about everything everyone feels at this moment.
Right obviously there are major social and political differences all around the world. Having lived in Sweden and London and traveled quite a bit this is obvious. But does being born in country a or country b really make someone fundamentally more or less violent? I just hate all these "we have to change our culture" arguments because the person making it almost never means "we need to change our gun culture."
Not being born here, but being raised here. I think the amount of guns here is probably a direct reflection of our culture.
Have any of you seen bowling for columbine? I'm not a huge michael moore fan but that movie is well done., it doesn't really have the answers, but it goes into what we're discussing about our violent culture. It has alot of great points, and asks alot of great questions
Post by Fiddler's Green on Dec 16, 2012 20:44:02 GMT -5
"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb, and we all take off our shoes at the airport; 31 school shootings since Columbine, and no change in our regulation of guns…"
"One failed attempt at a shoe bomb, and we all take off our shoes at the airport; 31 school shootings since Columbine, and no change in our regulation of guns…"
Did anyone else pick up Obama's thinly veiled hints at gun control in his speech this evening?
I don't own a gun and I don't care for them, but our country was founded with a law protecting free speech and the right to vote, just as it was with a law protecting our freedom to own a gun.
While not being a supporter of guns, I am a supporter of protecting our freedoms.
I wanted to throw something at the tv and I don't even really get concerned with politics normally.
Taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote his own personal agenda regarding gun laws is disgusting.
Did anyone else pick up Obama's thinly veiled hints at gun control in his speech this evening?
I don't own a gun and I don't care for them, but our country was founded with a law protecting free speech and the right to vote, just as it was with a law protecting our freedom to own a gun.
While not being a supporter of guns, I am a supporter of protecting our freedoms.
I wanted to throw something at the tv and I don't even really get concerned with politics normally.
Taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote his own personal agenda regarding gun laws is disgusting.
Saw this on twitter:
Obama politicized this moment only if "it should be harder to murder roomfuls of children" is a political statement.
I don't own a gun and I don't care for them, but our country was founded with a law protecting free speech and the right to vote, just as it was with a law protecting our freedom to own a gun.
Our country was also founded on belief that black slaves were 3/5ths a person. It's time for change.
I don't own a gun and I don't care for them, but our country was founded with a law protecting free speech and the right to vote, just as it was with a law protecting our freedom to own a gun.
Our country was also founded on belief that black slaves were 3/5ths a person. It's time for change.
Is there something in the constitution protecting our right to own another human being? Has there ever been?
Our country was also founded on belief that black slaves were 3/5ths a person. It's time for change.
Is there something in the constitution protecting our right to own another human being? Has there ever been?
Apples and oranges bro.
How is a line in the Constitution that gives no rights to an entire class of human beings not relevant to a discussion about the rights protected by the Constitution? Bro.
Surfbum thinks, due to the fact that the founding fathers used terms like "importation of persons," "persons held to the service of labor" or "other persons" in the constitution instead of "slavery" and "slave," your comment saying the constitution was designed with the intent to be changed in the future is irrelevant.
Or, that's what he would be saying if he knew what he was talking about.
Surfbum thinks, due to the fact that the founding fathers used terms like "importation of persons," "persons held to the service of labor" or "other persons" in the constitution instead of "slavery" and "slave," your comment saying the constitution was designed with the intent to be changed in the future is irrelevant.
Or, that's what he would be saying if he knew what he was talking about.
I'm not sure there was intent that the Constitution be changed, but it's imperfect and it NEEDS to be changed.
I have a problem with the president taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote a personal agenda. That's what I have a problem with. Gun laws and slavery are unrelated. Also an irrelivent argument against my original point. Our president is using a tragedy for his own personal gain. Stop trying to make what I said about something it's not.
I have a problem with the president taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote a personal agenda. That's what I have a problem with. Gun laws and slavery are unrelated. Also an irrelivent argument against my original point. Our president is using a tragedy for his own personal gain. Stop trying to make what I said about something it's not.
Its not personal gain, twit. He's trying to make our country better. If he does that through restrictions on gun ownership I and many others support him 100%.
I have a problem with the president taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote a personal agenda. That's what I have a problem with. Gun laws and slavery are unrelated. Also an irrelivent argument against my original point. Our president is using a tragedy for his own personal gain. Stop trying to make what I said about something it's not.
To say it's a personal agenda is factually inaccurate. Obama has been one of the most lax Presidents regarding gun laws.
Post by iamthehorn on Dec 16, 2012 23:06:56 GMT -5
But honestly, when IS the "right time" to talk about gun control? Two months after a shooting? We've had 8 mass-shootings this year. When in between all those innocent people being killed was the "right time" to talk about gun control?
I have a problem with the president taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote a personal agenda. That's what I have a problem with. Gun laws and slavery are unrelated. Also an irrelivent argument against my original point. Our president is using a tragedy for his own personal gain. Stop trying to make what I said about something it's not.
To say it's a personal agenda is factually inaccurate. Obama has been one of the most lax Presidents regarding gun laws.
Obama has signed several laws easing regulations on gun ownership (right to carry in National Parks comes to mind) and none, to my knowledge, restricting gun ownership.
I have a problem with the president taking a tragedy as an opportunity to promote a personal agenda. That's what I have a problem with. Gun laws and slavery are unrelated. Also an irrelivent argument against my original point. Our president is using a tragedy for his own personal gain. Stop trying to make what I said about something it's not.
To say it's a personal agenda is factually inaccurate. Obama has been one of the most lax Presidents regarding gun laws.
Dude, haven't you seen all the bumper stickers saying otherwise? You can keep your hope and change, I'll keep my God and guns.
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Dec 17, 2012 8:46:43 GMT -5
I only hope that this national conversation continues. Between everyone- political leaders, religious leaders, down to the average citizen on the street. We need to keep talking this out and to approach this from an all holistic point-of-view.
I admired the President for taking on this incredibly sensitive issue. It took courage to address it and actually, I wish he had said more about finding solutions to the problem, to finding a way to start eliminating the violence. All Americans should be willing to make sacrifices for the greater good of their country. In Scotland, after their tragic school shooting, a petition was turned into the government with 750,000 signatures asking the government to ban private gun ownership. Here, it seems to me Americans don't ever want to give up their toys. Everything is perceived as a threat to some imagined liberty. Nevermind the fact that we're dealing with a crisis of epic proportion, I want my toys
A critical evaluation of our society and what we value the most here in our country really needs to take place. Everyone should be asking themselves these questions right now. Rabbi Praver from Newtown said this:
“We live in a culture of violence,” Praver said he told his congregants, according to the paper. “All of our culture is based on violence and we need to teach the kids about the ways of peace. We need to change everything.”
“There’s too much war, too much violence in our streets,” he added, speaking in Hebrew.
Also, I heard many political leaders talking of some system for better mental health care. All of this is vital to improving our society, to making us safer, I believe. We are so quick to judge and evaluate the rest of the world but never do we want to take a hard look at ourselves and our own lifestyles. The violence in these video games appalls me- why on earth do parents find it an acceptable and valuable means of entertainment to let their children blow people's heads off? It absolutely disgusts me. These games are so realistic and horrific that doesn't anyone find it alarming that people get pleasure from playing murderers? I know parents who allow their kids to play these games. I find it amazingly disturbing.
Ugh, that was a great comment until the video game thing. People will try to scapegoat first-person shooter games (and it's true they help these people build their delusions, but only as a supplement, it's never a root cause).
Millions of people play those games without ever acting out what happens in the game. As you pointed out, increased attention to mental health would help avoid these tragedies, not banning first person shooter games.
My dad gave me Wolfenstein when I was like 10 years old. It's a game where you go around killin Nazi's and demonic monsters. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of guns or violence. This is because my parent took the time to make sure I knew what was real vs imaginary and what was right and wrong. They would also limit me to 30 minutes of computer game time and woul jut lock me outside all day if it wasn't raining.
Better parenting and better attention to mental health is what this discussion should be about, not stopping the next Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty game.
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Dec 17, 2012 9:38:46 GMT -5
Just because you don't necessarily agree with my comment, doesn't mean my post was any less "great." I see that me and you have similarities on how we were brought up- I agree with you in what you said, for the most part. I know my thinking on video games would meet with plenty of opposition, but in my heart, and using my common sense, I feel strongly against all this violence as entertainment. I can't understand it for one minute and I never will. Yes, of course, violence in films, in games, what-have-you, has always been a part of our culture and in smaller doses, I don't see anything wrong with that. I grew up watching some violence. It was alot less realistic and alot less common though- and that is for sure. Violence has become so ingrained now in all forms of our pop culture, that I feel it is numbing our children to it.
More and more recent studies are linking video games to aggression and a loss of compassion for people. It has taken time to start seeing the effects because these games are a modern event- we aren't going to see overnight what implications they may have on a child's development or personality. It is still be analyzed, studied, and it can be hard to determine in an empirical fashion what exact negative impacts playing violent can have. But, yes, studies are showing evidence for a link. No, most kids aren't going to be violent because of a video game. I agree with that. But what good does spending 13 hours on average a week playing video games (many of which are violent) for a child anyway? What is a kid learning? Is he/she learning how to interact with people and develop better social skills? I don't think so. Is it good for a child to just sit for hours on end in front of a TV? To me, it serves absolutely no good at all and is damaging to a child's creativity, intelligence, development, and social skills with others. I think way too much time is being spent engaged with violent or meaningless forms of entertainment and we ARE seeing the effects in many different ways.
I was out in the world living, playing, spending time exploring the world and learning about my friends and their families. I enjoyed nature. My parents would scream at us as kids to "get outside!" Shouldn't kids be out using their brains and imaginations? I think it served me alot of good to not be allowed to watch TV for hours.
Post by iamthehorn on Dec 17, 2012 10:04:40 GMT -5
“Take That I am an idiot!!! Off The TV, We Wanna Watch Football!”: Idiots Respond To NBC Pre-Empting Sunday Night Football
deadspin.com/5968935/take-that-I am an idiot!!!-off-the-tv-we-wanna-watch-football-idiots-respond-to-nbc-pre+empting-sunday-night-football?post=55311622
Post by wannaberoo'ing on Dec 17, 2012 10:14:27 GMT -5
^And that is what I mean by Americans' values and what we hold to be most important. Sure, most people don't feel that way, but I think it's scary how many do. Entertainment above all else!
“Take That I am an idiot!!! Off The TV, We Wanna Watch Football!”: Idiots Respond To NBC Pre-Empting Sunday Night Football
deadspin.com/5968935/take-that-I am an idiot!!!-off-the-tv-we-wanna-watch-football-idiots-respond-to-nbc-pre+empting-sunday-night-football?post=55311622
This has taken my sadness in a whole new direction. But it is important to read these so we all realize how far we have to go in so many different ways.
What you're saying is basically the same thing I am, except you're focused on video games instead of the parents who use video games to raise your kid. Presently, many parents would sooner turn on a tv than sit and just experience their children. Is the content of what is being gown own the tv a contributing factor? Sure. Military psychologists have done studies that show certain games when played without perspective lead to an erosion of a child's aversion to violence and in some extreme cases an aversion to murder, but those cases are always accompanied by significant mental illness.
If you want to raise your kids without letting them use violence for entertainment, I'd 100% support you in that and would never question your motives and/or skill as a parent. But there are thousands of parents who don't do much to mold their own children's minds. At some point, when the focus shifted from parents to teachers/coaches/society, people got complacent and kids started becoming more and more intolerable.
Getting rid of a few video games won't change that or stop these things from happening. The issues are much larger than that.
