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YPG is not a determinant stat of how good an offense is. Just like y'all were arguing that the Buccaneers don't have the best run defense in the NFL despite giving up the fewest YPG on the ground last year. Don't be hypocrites. How good an offense is goes far beyond YPG (especially from last year).
Ok then. Without using statistics from last year, show me some metric that says that New York, Dallas and Washington are all top-12 offenses.
This early in the season, all you can go on are last season's stats and rhetoric. That's it. And I agree with you that you can't just base an assessment of a team on the stats alone - for instance, even though Washington, New York and Dallas had decent-to-good offensive numbers from last year, I'd argue that those numbers were inflated by playing in a division that boasted only one team with an above-average defense, and that those teams often had to punch up their offense because they were behind in a lot of games. I'd say that putting up 30 points on the Eagles isn't the same as putting up 30 on the 49ers, etc. But I digress. The NFC East is like a college football conference, where fans of the teams that play within those confines can't possibly imagine that they aren't witnessing the product at its absolute pinnacle.
NFC East is the pinnacle. Undefeated in the preseason, guys!
It's going to be a shame watching the Skins waste the best DE/OLB pairing in football because the rest of their defense is pretty crappy.
I didn't even realize Brandon Merriweather is still in the NFL....and he's starting at SS.
Orakpo and Kerrigan are ridiculous, though.
I cannot disagree with any of this. If the Eagles get any traction with the blur offense on 1st downs, Washington's secondary could be in for a long night. Conversely, Vick could also be rushed into passes that you and I could intercept - honestly don't know which way it will go.
It'll be very interesting watching the edges. Peters (coming off his torn achilles) and Johnson (bear wrestler extraordinaire) vs. Orakpo & Kerrigan. That's going to be a great battle in the trenches. Peters & Johnson being nimble and guys Kelly will use in space adds an extra wrinkle to the matchup.
So are you going to be this chipper every time the Giants lose this year? Because if I need to sit and read you say "2 RINGS!!!" (in some form) 50x over the next couple of weeks I am going to be less than pleased.
I'm a little late to this conversation, but the 2012 Washington Redskins led the NFL in rushing yards per game, and were 5th in total offensive yards per game. Why are they suddenly not a good offense? I agree that the defense is mostly terrible, though.
I will be reserving my judgement on the exciting week 1 action until my beloved birds play tonight. The outcome of the game will have a direct correlation with my tone/attitude.
Congrats Seahwaks, Saints, Jets, (and probably texans) fans. Any other winners this week that I'm not thinking of?
T minus six hours until I hope this happens.
But probably not.
I'm too nervous/sober to deal with this right now. This day of work is taking for-god-damn-ever. This matchup really is intriguing.
How will the Skins Front 7 react to the new offense? Can Vick continue to work his magic against the Redskins? Can the Eagles Stop Morris and the Skins ground attack? Can the Eagles stop anything at all really? RGIII vs. Vick Orakpo/Kerrigan vs Peters/Johnson
It's going to be a shame watching the Skins waste the best DE/OLB pairing in football because the rest of their defense is pretty crappy.
I didn't even realize Brandon Merriweather is still in the NFL....and he's starting at SS.
Orakpo and Kerrigan are ridiculous, though.
I know I've said this before, but 75% of the league unfortunately has a pretty crappy secondary. There are alot of teams wasting great LB's and DL due to the lack of a bonafide secondary unit. The old method of taking smaller, less skilled WR's and turning them into CB's and S's is no longer going to cut it. Colleges and High Schools are going to start breeding 6'2" 210 lb coverage guys.
You get one offseason to boast about a SB win. After that, everyone's back in the hunt. If Eli's get another this year, good for you. If not, you're just another loser like the rest of us.
Ok then. Without using statistics from last year, show me some metric that says that New York, Dallas and Washington are all top-12 offenses.
This early in the season, all you can go on are last season's stats and rhetoric. That's it. And I agree with you that you can't just base an assessment of a team on the stats alone - for instance, even though Washington, New York and Dallas had decent-to-good offensive numbers from last year, I'd argue that those numbers were inflated by playing in a division that boasted only one team with an above-average defense, and that those teams often had to punch up their offense because they were behind in a lot of games. I'd say that putting up 30 points on the Eagles isn't the same as putting up 30 on the 49ers, etc. But I digress. The NFC East is like a college football conference, where fans of the teams that play within those confines can't possibly imagine that they aren't witnessing the product at its absolute pinnacle.
NFC East is the pinnacle. Undefeated in the preseason, guys!
Fun fact, the Lions won every preseason game in 2008 before going 0-16.
Post by Black Dynamite on Sept 9, 2013 14:00:04 GMT -5
Why are you guys arguing over top 12 offenses 1 week into the season? Is this ESPN?
That's an unwinnable argument. At this point you could only go off of the eyeball test. I spent a good 9 hours watching football yesterday, flipping between most of the games, and I know I didn't see enough to make a statement like that.
FWIW, IMO, the most important parts of an offense are QB, then Oline. So with that line of thinking, the Giants offense is pretty average IMO. I'd take the Redskins and the potentially the Eagles offense over the Giants. I'm not kidding. Eli was a turnover machine when the Giants were consistantly owning the LOS and could run at will. I'm not very confident in them this season.
I'm not buying the Eagles yet. I never trust the whole "college coach with a gimmick offense" thing. Yes, blur offense, sounds like fun. Will it really be any faster than when the Pats run their no huddle? Isn't this whole system still reliant on the ability of the quarterback to make smart decisions in split-second timing? Isn't Michael Vick still the Eagles quarterback? I'm just not seeing it.
I partially agree with you here. I'm being cautious when it comes to the offense and my expectations. Even if Chip and his ways prove to be unsuccessful or he hits a few bumps in the road, I expect the running game to excel. We've got a crew of incredibly talented backs, and one of the best OL's in football. This alone, even with a terrible coach, should lead to an offense that can manage the game. I think Vick can be a decent game manager at this point in his career. Andy had him dropping back 40-50 times per game, and I really think that's why Vick's turnover numbers have been so inflated the past 2 years. He's obviously had issues his whole career, but he really seems to be taking advantage of the simple reads used by the offense as he matures.
- I post a derpy gif of Eli. - You give the old "LOOK AT THE RINGS BRO" counter; your invocation of Russell Wilson's name is clearly an attempt to say "Eli is better, when your team's QB has the same number of rings then we can talk," even though you later tried to act like it wasn't when it became clear that your arguments were terrible. - I make a satirical post about the ridiculousness of using Super Bowl victories as a measure of greatness, which you were obviously attempting to do. - You next make a post wherein you state the dead certainty that Eli Manning finishes top-15 in three major categories (JUST FUN FACTS BRO) - Then you say "I'm not trying to say Eli is better than any of the players Juggs mentioned," which of course you weren't, because that would be insane, but you clearly WERE trying to say that Eli was better than Russell Wilson, so if you use that same evaluation metric, you actually were trying to say he was better than all those guys. - Next, you made a "joke" about back when people thought Rivers was better than Manning. - Glennron steps in and uses some "facts" in the form of passer rating to demonstrate why that's not such an insane thing to say, if you like to rely on certain forms of statistics. - You then point out the absurdity of using passer rating to evaluate a quarterback by pointing out the ridiculous conclusions one would come to if that was the case, i.e. Schaub as the 11th best QB ever, etc. - I was a little later to the party, and derided you for trying to act like you didn't say Eli was teh bestest evar because of his Super Bowl wins. - Glennron points out your use of career passing TDs, yardage, completions. - I take it a step further, and do the SAME THING YOU DID ABOVE, demonstrating how through those numbers, Vinny Testaverde is the best QB of all time. - Finally, you try and say "just tossin' out some fun facts, Broseidon!" when it's pretty evident to everyone witnessing this trainwreck that you were, in fact, attempting to advocate for Eli Manning as a premier passer. - ...which brings us here, to your post which basically just quotes all the above, out of order, sans context, in an attempt to save face. Which is insane, because who gives a sh*t about saving face in the NFL thread of a message board primarily dedicated to music discussion but whatever.
NFC East is the pinnacle. Undefeated in the preseason, guys!
Fun fact, the Lions won every preseason game in 2008 before going 0-16.
Yeah, kinda my point. When the Redskins had the ol' ball coach, Dooshy Spurrier McDoosh, they came out gangbusters in some preseason game in Japan and everyone was all ermagerd.
If I recall, that was the season that Spurrier had the classic end of season press conference:
"Who's that guy with the Gator hat on? Yup. Florida Gator cap. Got a big crowd in here! Ok, we wound up 5-11! Not very good! But there was some worse 'un us. I guess that's one positive way to look at it, we weren't the worst team in the league. But it wa'n't very good...Some guys had pretty daggum good years. I think our kickers, John Hall and Bryan Barker, had exceptional years, they really did...So I really don't have a whole lot of great information for you guys today to sum up the season."
Post by jumpinjamesbrown on Sept 9, 2013 15:45:13 GMT -5
Quarterbacks are the most over rated position in any sport anyways. Yes they have to make most of the decisions as the game happens but they still have to count on 10 other guys at the same time and if they all move to the wrong spot or don't block it reflects on the qb and the opposite happens when everyone runs a play perfectly everyone says the qb made such a great play. If david tyree doesn't make a circus catch eli isn't a superbowl mvp just the same as if jacoby jones doesn't come back to catch a terribly under thrown ball by joe flacco he doesn't get named mvp. I still think eli is an excellent qb and as long as no one tears russell wilsons head off he will be great. Also look at matt flynn the kid had one of the more impressive performances in a playoff game in the last few years and now he's sitting behind terrelle pryor.
You're just too young to grasp how stylin' I really was. All the boys wanted to do me when I was 5. Actually the girls did too. My haircut was confusing.
Quarterbacks are the most over rated position in any sport anyways. Yes they have to make most of the decisions as the game happens but they still have to count on 10 other guys at the same time and if they all move to the wrong spot or don't block it reflects on the qb and the opposite happens when everyone runs a play perfectly everyone says the qb made such a great play. If david tyree doesn't make a circus catch eli isn't a superbowl mvp just the same as if jacoby jones doesn't come back to catch a terribly under thrown ball by joe flacco he doesn't get named mvp. I still think eli is an excellent qb and as long as no one tears russell wilsons head off he will be great. Also look at matt flynn the kid had one of the more impressive performances in a playoff game in the last few years and now he's sitting behind terrelle pryor.
Did you feel bad for jimmyroo being targeted all day or something?
Post by jumpinjamesbrown on Sept 9, 2013 15:55:29 GMT -5
No i actually hardly read any of the other posts. I'm just watching the replay of game 7 knicks vs rockets and felt like saying something cause i'm excited football is back. I actually hate eli manning.
Quarterbacks are the most over rated position in any sport anyways. Yes they have to make most of the decisions as the game happens but they still have to count on 10 other guys at the same time and if they all move to the wrong spot or don't block it reflects on the qb and the opposite happens when everyone runs a play perfectly everyone says the qb made such a great play. If david tyree doesn't make a circus catch eli isn't a superbowl mvp just the same as if jacoby jones doesn't come back to catch a terribly under thrown ball by joe flacco he doesn't get named mvp. I still think eli is an excellent qb and as long as no one tears russell wilsons head off he will be great. Also look at matt flynn the kid had one of the more impressive performances in a playoff game in the last few years and now he's sitting behind terrelle pryor.
There is no single person more valuable to their team.
Who's even close?
A pitcher? What once every 5 games? A goalie? A point guard or a center?