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Both of them have similar policies but I just know the Clinton name more I guess. I feel like she is just grasping at straws now and mudslinging and I can't support that.
Ugh. My mom (who, admittedly, voted for Bush twice and says she's still okay with that decision) says if Clinton doesn't win the nomination, she'll vote for McCain. She's pro-choice. How can someone who's pro-choice vote for him? He believes that women who have abortions should be put in jail. He's been given a 0% rating by NARAL Pro-Choice America for 6 years straight.
She thinks I'm "drinking the Obama koolaid" because I get my sources and information online, and she watches TV and reads the paper. I try to tell her otherwise, but she doesn't listen. She says that in polls Clinton has shown to be more likely to beat McCain than Obama. Every time I throw stats out there about Clinton, she says "the media is handing him the presidency...Clinton has it much harder."
I need ammunition! I cannot sit idly by while my parents vote Republican...
Ammunition is such a subjective thing and you can find stats to back either position but here's my personal take. Lock and load!
1- Clinton voter's are primarily the establishment Dems like older New Deal Dems and Union workers. These people are the most likely people to vote democratic regardless of the niominee. While Obama has the newer, younger voters who have swollen the ranks but are much more likely to not vote (as is the norm) if Obama loses the nomination. Also hardcore Reps will never cross over for Clinton after bedeviling her for 15 years. Obama at least has a chance at crossover Reps who see McCain as not beinf a "real" Rep.
2- Clinton will likely bring out Reps who have hated her for decades. Obama will not pull apathetic Reps out to vote. This also affects the Congressional votes as, IMHO, Dems can take many more seats in the House and Senate if the apathetic Reps stay home.
3- Obama has much more money to fight off the ineveitable Rep attacks.
4- Why would Rush Limbaugh be telling Reps to register as Dems and vote for Clinton if he did not believe she would be easier to beat in Nov?
5- Polls show Obama and Clinton statistically equal in their ability to beat McCain (1 point diff) and this is even after such a "bad" month for Obama and with McCain getting a free ride. Also Nationwide polls mean nothing as we have the electoral college. State polls are not available and would mean nothing at this point anyway. www.realclearpolitics.com/polls/
That's just off the top of my head but if you have specific ammo you need, PM me. I'm not an expert, just a political junkie.
Of course the split is so personal right now that facts mean nothing. Hopefully it will heal by Fall.
Last Edit: May 9, 2008 18:33:47 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
Ugh. My mom (who, admittedly, voted for Bush twice and says she's still okay with that decision) says if Clinton doesn't win the nomination, she'll vote for McCain. She's pro-choice. How can someone who's pro-choice vote for him? He believes that women who have abortions should be put in jail. He's been given a 0% rating by NARAL Pro-Choice America for 6 years straight.
She thinks I'm "drinking the Obama koolaid" because I get my sources and information online, and she watches TV and reads the paper. I try to tell her otherwise, but she doesn't listen. She says that in polls Clinton has shown to be more likely to beat McCain than Obama. Every time I throw stats out there about Clinton, she says "the media is handing him the presidency...Clinton has it much harder."
I need ammunition! I cannot sit idly by while my parents vote Republican...
I feel your pain. Pretty much all of my relatives voted for Bush, twice. My mom and my one uncle and grandfather have all expressed regret about that second vote. But all my other relatives still hold strong.
It's hard to argue with people with their kind of logic. Folks that will only watch Fox news or only pick and choose the information that they want to adhere to. I would ask your mom, or any other Hillary supporter, to name one reason why they wouldn't vote for Obama other than Rev. Wright. Most likely they'll talk about his lack of experience. I see that as one of his strongest suits though. Look at how much political experience Bush had, and look where that got us. But to those folks that still agree with their last vote for Bush, that argument won't really hold any water.
Obama's biggest strength, juxtaposed to one of Hillary's greatest weaknesses, is his ability to bring folks from both sides of the aisle to actually accomplish something worthwhile. Unfortunately I think he's really bringing out alot of people's hidden bigotry, and those people will usually cover that up with talk of Rev. Wright, or his bogus connections to terrorist groups, or Louis Farrakan, or so on. It's pretty sad that race plays a factor in people's voting decisions. I'd like to think most of us have moved past that, but I guess not. Not saying that's your mom, just saying
Her biggest argument is Rev. Wright (even though I've pointed out to her that he was the advisor to Pres. Clinton, and the whole deal about Pat Robertson and Billy Graham) and that she thinks Obama is "a liar and a fake".
She says that this election is "just like Jimmy Carter" in that the media "takes it easy on him". She says I pick and choose the information that *I* want to hear. It's frustrating. She also stated that he is "the most liberal person in the senate"....an argument that she used against John Kerry in 04. I told her that, and told her to look at the state of the US is in now. When I asked if she still approved of Bush, she said.."Well, not really, but I am still okay that I decided to vote for him"
Yeah I don't know how people can say that the media is taking it easy on Obama. They harped on Rev. Wright for almost a month. Then the whole "cling" gate fiasco that painted him as an elitist. April was brutal to Obama. There are sooooo many skeletons in Hillary and Bill's closet that the media could report on, but they haven't. This is just one, but a major one that I'm sure would come out in the general election....... www.peterfpaul.com/
I am still curious as to how one gets .5 of a superdelegate. I will say one thing this election cycle has really taught a lot of people about our overly esoteric democratic system. I did not know half of all the obscure a rules and minutae that appear to actually having a bearing on the outcome of this election.
yeah but why, that is true in the Republican primary for Michigan and Florida where they took half the votes, but I am do not remember why we did it or to who?
^^^Wooz has it exactly right. I'll vote Dem this year regardless. The court has already taken away too many rights and given them to corporations. A McCain victory and we have a heavily corpoarte court for the remainder of my lifetime.
^^^Wooz has it exactly right. I'll vote Dem this year regardless. The court has already taken away too many rights and given them to corporations. A McCain victory and we have a heavily corpoarte court for the remainder of my lifetime.
I know exactly what you guys are saying, but I really don't think I could vote for Hillary out of good conscience. I'd go Nader, just in protest.
yeah but why, that is true in the Republican primary for Michigan and Florida where they took half the votes, but I am do not remember why we did it or to who?
Both parties punished FL & MI, but they went about it differently. The Republicans stripped half those states' allocated delegates, whereas the Democrats disallowed their full delegation. Of course, the GOP is more likely to go easy on them since they take their pro-states' rights position with them into their nominating process. This is also seen in allocating votes - Republican rules give all a state's delegates to its winner & Democrat rules distribute them proportionally. That's why McCain clinched his party's nomination a lot faster than either Democrat, despite the initial GOP field having more candidates uncertainty and more candidates with a chance of winning.
As far as half-votes... It's not always done as punishment for something. There are territories (like Guam or Puerto Rico) that don't get to vote in the general election, so they get half. There are also lower positions within the party pecking order that are also only deemed worthy of one-half vote.
Polls today mean nothing. Carter was ahead of Reagan in 1980 at this time by 30+ points. Obama will win MA.
no he wont. his campaign is run identicly to the way our new governors was and by the same people. using the words hope and change in repition. well governor devall patrick has done absolutely nothing that he said he would, we're pissed and we're not falling for it again
Poop -- so who is the love affair with? Clinton or Paul?
The blasts of anger are typical of most of their supporters.
It doesn't have to be an either-or question here. There's a love affair with both. Paultards can be quite irritating, but I haven't heard anything I'd call a "blast of anger" from them. Kinda crazy, yes, but not totally unreasonable - they're generally nice if you can establish some common ground. The Hillary people were the only ones I got open hostility from when I was out on the front lines.* I'll skip that story... I'm just saying they certainly can't be any better these days. I know I haven't spoken with my pro-Hillary sister in a couple months. At first she was volunteering for both campaigns, saying she just wanted a Democrat to win. So the last time we spoke was when I called her the eve of our Feb 19th primary. She'd fully converted to the Hillary cause and had already voted absentee. Obama won by 17 here. We haven't really been on good terms since shortly after that. She hasn't responded to anything since my man Richardson endorsed Obama. It's funny on one level, but still kinda sad.
*Actually, there was that lone drunk Edwards supporter on NH primary night - but the rest of the Edwards people I encountered were alright.
Poop -- so who is the love affair with? Clinton or Paul?
The blasts of anger are typical of most of their supporters.
It doesn't have to be an either-or question here. There's a love affair with both.
???
Not sure I know of an individual who shares a Clinton/Paul, dual love affair. I was just asking him which one of them was stoking his fires. It was more of a baiting thing, semi-tongue in cheek really. Poop, while seemingly pretty mellow, if we're to believe his board persona, has freaked out with some semi-ridiculous anti-Obama statements in this thread. I'm just curious about his political alliances...
Post by billypilgrim on May 10, 2008 23:58:33 GMT -5
I have total respect for Hillary and all she's accomplished, but it' s time she looked down and saw the stake sticking out of her heart and let this election move on to the next round. I don't know anyone who has a plausible scenario where she beats Barack. If someone was going to come out and say they snorted coke with him and he fucked their underage sister, that would've happened by now. So Hill, enough. You've got the senate thing, still. Step aside for the good of your party.
It doesn't have to be an either-or question here. There's a love affair with both.
???
Not sure I know of an individual who shares a Clinton/Paul, dual love affair. I was just asking him which one of them was stoking his fires. It was more of a baiting thing, semi-tongue in cheek really. Poop, while seemingly pretty mellow, if we're to believe his board persona, has freaked out with some semi-ridiculous anti-Obama statements in this thread. I'm just curious about his political alliances...
Haha... whoops. When I read "Poop" I thought it was the censored S-word. I was referring to the general love affairs each of those candidates has. I'll have to agree some of those statements were semi-ridiculous.
I don't know anyone who has a plausible scenario where she beats Barack.
Members of Congress are granted immunity from criminal charges while traveling to/from sessions. It's how Ted Kennedy largely escaped punishment from the Chappaquiddick incident. She could always "Tonya Harding" him in a lethal fashion (or is the proper analogy here RFK?) and be the surviving candidate with the most delegates.
Not sure I know of an individual who shares a Clinton/Paul, dual love affair. I was just asking him which one of them was stoking his fires. It was more of a baiting thing, semi-tongue in cheek really. Poop, while seemingly pretty mellow, if we're to believe his board persona, has freaked out with some semi-ridiculous anti-Obama statements in this thread. I'm just curious about his political alliances...
Haha... whoops. When I read "Poop" I thought it was the censored S-word. I was referring to the general love affairs each of those candidates has. I'll have to agree some of those statements were semi-ridiculous.
Ahhhh -- haha -- that makes more sense. Color me dense.
Poop -- so who is the love affair with? Clinton or Paul?
The blasts of anger are typical of most of their supporters.
haha, honestly i dont like either. im not a clinton supporter at all, imo shes just as bad as obama. why cant america wise up and nominate some one worthy, like kucinich
It doesn't have to be an either-or question here. There's a love affair with both.
???
Not sure I know of an individual who shares a Clinton/Paul, dual love affair. I was just asking him which one of them was stoking his fires. It was more of a baiting thing, semi-tongue in cheek really. Poop, while seemingly pretty mellow, if we're to believe his board persona, has freaked out with some semi-ridiculous anti-Obama statements in this thread. I'm just curious about his political alliances...
haha i am mellow some things just make me angry though and politics is one of them i have just as much animosity toward mccain and if i thought clinton had any chance of getting the ticket id be yelling at her too. none of theese people are going to give us what we want and it just makes me mad. sorry. i should prolly steer clear of the politics thread. peace my friends