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I cant tell you how many times when i was a kid going to sleep at night i would lay in bed a worry that every little thing i did all day would send me to hell. Heck, i was only raised Methodist! I wish i could re-grow up with the free will and logical thinking that i have today.
This is exactly how I felt for a long time, and is why I don't like many "religions". The fact is that just is not what the Bible says. It never seises to amaze me how many of the things I learned growing up going to Catholic school just are no where to be found in the Bible. I agree with what a lot of you have to say about Churches, but most of it does not translate back to simple Christianity.
I cant tell you how many times when i was a kid going to sleep at night i would lay in bed a worry that every little thing i did all day would send me to hell. Heck, i was only raised Methodist! I wish i could re-grow up with the free will and logical thinking that i have today.
This is exactly how I felt for a long time, and is why I don't like many "religions". The fact is that just is not what the Bible says. It never seises to amaze me how many of the things I learned growing up going to Catholic school just are no where to be found in the Bible. I agree with what a lot of you have to say about Churches, but most of it does not translate back to simple Christianity.
What about the whole - "God is the only one to judge" yet - most churches perform their own judgments on members.
I say - if you live a good life, are kind to your fellow man, do your best to not trash God's creation, and understand that he gave his son for the forgiveness of all sin - then you got it made. That is all any of us can do.
and for those of you that don't believe - if you live a good life, are kind to your fellow man, and do your best not to trash the Earth - then you are good in my book also
What about the whole - "God is the only one to judge" yet - most churches perform their own judgments on members.
I say - if you live a good life, are kind to your fellow man, do your best to not trash God's creation, and understand that he gave his son for the forgiveness of all sin - then you got it made. That is all any of us can do.
I think that's still making a judgment - it's just in favor of a particular religion over others, instead of judgment within one religion.
What about the whole - "God is the only one to judge" yet - most churches perform their own judgments on members.
I say - if you live a good life, are kind to your fellow man, do your best to not trash God's creation, and understand that he gave his son for the forgiveness of all sin - then you got it made. That is all any of us can do.
I think that's still making a judgment - it's just in favor of a particular religion over others, instead of judgment within one religion.
which is why I also added the rest of my post - that you did not quote
and for those of you that don't believe - if you live a good life, are kind to your fellow man, and do your best not to trash the Earth - then you are good in my book also
^^that is my own personal judgment - but then again - I am a kinda strange one anyway - because I don't believe in hell - am not sure about heaven - I do believe in God - but I also belive in reincarnation - I believe in evolution, the big bang and creation all together.
I think that God created (creation) the big bang - which started the cycle of him created the world and that he created us as cells to begin with and we evolved over whatever his whole time period of a day was. Seems like a simple belief to me.
and I am not asking for anyone to debate my belief with me. That's not it at all - my general rule of life is to let people be who they wanna be - I can't say they are going to heaven, hell or will be reincarnated as a cockroach - fact is - none of us know any of that for sure.
so if you believe in God, great - believe in Allah, great, don't believe in anything at all - great - let me believe what I wanna believe and you believe how you wanna believe - it will make us both happier in the long run.
I read it as preferring one religion over another.
Me, I think there's a higher power (God? Nature? whatever...) but it's beyond the comprehension of us mere mortals. So I think it's kind of arrogant to assume one interpretation over another. For all I know, they're all true. Or none of them.
well - that would be me - the arrogant one then - but at least I am not like alot of others and run around telling people that if they don't believe the way I belive then they are going to hell or heaven or whereever
I think the whole world should be able to live together in religious peace if we would just let people believe in what they want to believe in
Post by oysterheadhead on Apr 12, 2008 5:59:16 GMT -5
if i have a religion, it is music
i am a non-practicing ATHEIST. kinda like those non-practising Jews who don't follow all the strict rules. i'm definitely an atheist, but not so enthusiastic about it to promote it. i still have to participate in Christmas (even tho i hate it) for family reasons.
i subscribe to the Jesse Ventura attitude: organized religion is for insane people. i personally believe you have to be crazy (or brainwashed) to believe all that crap. yet i won't go so far as to do what George Carlin does and make fun of people who believe in the "old man in the sky"....
i respect everyone's right to express and practice whatever religion they might have. that is the American way. truly. that is what "religious freedom" is all about. it isn't about Christianity, as some believe. to each their own. God bless you all. or Satan bless. or pray to some rocks. or whatever.
At this point christianity seems like the most believable answer to the question of why we are here but my beliefs are constantly evolving and being challenged, mostly by me.
At this point christianity seems like the most believable answer to the question of why we are here but my beliefs are constantly evolving and being challenged, mostly by me.
Personally, I thought all those fossils were pretty believable.
I dont get the whole evolution vs creationism thing, I mean the two popes prior to who ever it is now, both pubicly stated that there is no problem with believing in god and evolutuion as long as u believe that somewhere along the evolutionary time line god infused the body with a soul. the people who believe in creationism, I'm sorry to say are just ignorant and uneducated.
Which ever way it happened its amazing that we ever came to be, not only us but even life on any scale. All those mutations from single cell to gradually more complex life ...... could be ... but I remain a skeptic. Just because something is inconcievable doesent mean it didnt happen. It all seems rather far fetched to me, I mean strings vibrating in eleven different demensions and the whole multiworlds theory which is widely accepted among theoretical physicist. Im not here to debate or convince anyone of anything I just think its an interesting subject.
oh, and it'd be nice if we could be adults and share our ideas about this in a respectfull manner without worrying about getting smited.
I dont get the whole evolution vs creationism thing, I mean the two popes prior to who ever it is now, both pubicly stated that there is no problem with believing in god and evolutuion as long as u believe that somewhere along the evolutionary time line god infused the body with a soul. the people who believe in creationism, I'm sorry to say are just ignorant and uneducated.
I have a question for people who are agnostic or athiest, are you ever going to bring your children to church in any form?
Well im not going to have kids, but i would not bring them to church. I hate the fact that i was 'brainwashed' as a kid. I hate that when i formed my own opinions i automatically felt bad and that i was going to hell, and honestly, that is ridicolous. So if i had a kid, i would instill everyday values, but they would be able form their own opinion when they want, and believe what they want, without feeling bad, because again, that is ridicolous.
I have a question for people who are agnostic or athiest, are you ever going to bring your children to church in any form?
Well im not going to have kids, but i would not bring them to church. I hate the fact that i was 'brainwashed' as a kid. I hate that when i formed my own opinions i automatically felt bad and that i was going to hell, and honestly, that is ridicolous. So if i had a kid, i would instill everyday values, but they would be able form their own opinion when they want, and believe what they want, without feeling bad, because again, that is ridicolous.
I don't force my children to go to church withme - they decide if they want to attend with no guilt trip if they don't - 9 times out of 10 they want to go - my teenager attends catholic church with a friend on Sunday evenings from 4:30 until 9 p.m. - she chooses to do that. My 10 year old occasionally goes with her grandparents and occasionally goes with me - her choice.
I think that just because you go to church and have a belief - that does not give you a right to force that belief upon your children. We wereput here as parents to guide our children but I let mine decide certain issues in life on their own. I was given a choice growing up and my children will be allowed the same choice
Post by jambandjohn on Apr 16, 2008 21:29:41 GMT -5
My wife's Catholic so my two kids did the Catholic Rites but were never pushed to attend. If they wanted to go with their mom or stay home with me it was their call. Now that they're grown and on their own, my son goes while my daughter doesn't. I think they're both good people and I'm glad we let them make their own choices.
Post by Steel_City_X on Apr 17, 2008 6:41:15 GMT -5
Very interesting thread.
I was raised in an ultra liberal Episcopal Church, now this was 30 years ago. My guess is that we likely have a high concentration of people who attended Woodstock. Lots of people there were about making the world a better place. It was open and affirming before that was an issue for churches.
[steps up onto theology platform] I learned that the translated bible is not a literal text. It was written, and translated and rewritten over and over since the stories allegedly took place. The bible was a storybook about living your life. What had to happen is understand the times and cultural of this time and see how we could live our lives today in a similar ‘Christ like manner’.
I have a core belief (thanks to my parents) and have a strong belief in how I am to live my life. As previously mentioned, the golden rule is one of those beliefs. I guess I can say that most of the rules for living that were carved into a couple stone tablets are pretty good.
I have no problem with other religions or people having beliefs different than mine. Since I do not try to make a living off the whole business of religion, my views are only my own. My grandmother told me once about how she viewed churches and religions. It was based on the image of a wheel. She saw the world as being on the outer edge of the wheel. That god, or whomever, or nothing, was in the center of the wheel and that religions and churches were nothing more than spokes that connected the world to the center. She saw that people could place themselves on one of the spokes and communicate with the center. However, because the spokes were not connected to each other, people could not understand why others had different views of the center from their positions in the world. She said that for the world to exist, all the different churches and religions were needed to connect the world and people to their belief system.
Children – we have tried to raise him the best we can and instill our values system into his brain. Needless to say, he still attends conservative churches with friends. We figure that he will find his place in the world of belief systems at some time in his life. From what others tell us, he is turning out really well. I think that he will be with me at Bonnaroo, so a few people will get to know him and his story. And let me say, he has one.
Religion and belief systems are the ways that we each choose to live our lives. As long as we agree to this rule: If it is right for you to shove your religion down my throat, It is alright for me to shove my fist into your face.
Just as you and I are different, we have different beliefs, and that should be perfectly fine for all of us. [steps off theology platform]
Post by bamadancer on Apr 17, 2008 15:20:56 GMT -5
I don't think that I will force my children to go to church with me. I would like my children to be raised with religion, yes, but ultimately it is their decision. You cannot force someone to believe something, ever. They can pretend, but they will never actually believe it. My parents gave me a choice growing up - they never made me attend church, and then when I decided I wanted to be confirmed in the Lutheran church they were extremely supportive. I love them for that. I hope that my children will feel the same way.
Post by hibouxdufromage on Apr 18, 2008 4:19:05 GMT -5
I was raised in a very conservative Disciples of Christ church. Didn't ever have any choice in the matter, my Dad thought that if he forced his kids to go to church every Sunday, they'd keep going when they were adults. He was wrong. I took the attitude pretty early on that the emphasis of modern christianity is off of its own mark. There is far too much emphasis placed on faith in fantastical events, martyrdom, and that god somehow made a sacrifice for all mankind by allowing one man to be tortured to death. Even the concept of sin seems like a ploy to get people to fall in line... the ultimate guilt trip: Jesus died for you to be able to act like our church wants you to act. Now be a good herd animal and repress most of your instincts. Even the concept of "Jesus is Lord" is a primitive idea, that he was born into royalty and you were born a peasant, so you have to choice but to do what he says. This basic concept permeated Europe during the Dark Ages and was rejected during the Renaissance. Not much emphasis is placed on what Jesus did and taught before the last day of his life, which is too bad. The flip side, which is the really dangerous part, is that people believe that if they simply believe in Jesus's divinity and resurrection, they can do whatever they want to anyone and don't have to be responsible for their own actions (despite what Jesus actually taught during his life). There's a christian in the White House who clearly believes this.
...... My grandmother told me once about how she viewed churches and religions. It was based on the image of a wheel. She saw the world as being on the outer edge of the wheel. That god, or whomever, or nothing, was in the center of the wheel and that religions and churches were nothing more than spokes that connected the world to the center. She saw that people could place themselves on one of the spokes and communicate with the center. However, because the spokes were not connected to each other, people could not understand why others had different views of the center from their positions in the world. She said that for the world to exist, all the different churches and religions were needed to connect the world and people to their belief system.
i LOVE this analogy. makes alot of sense. props to your grandmother!
Post by tehoemusic on Apr 20, 2008 15:47:49 GMT -5
I was raised a catholic and actually believed the BS as a young boy. As Carlin said "I was raised a Catholic until i reached the age of reason." But I just realized today that the brainwashing that the church has done to me in the past is losing it's grip on me in HUGE ways. Today I just realized that I don't remember all the words to the Hail Mary prayer. I just can't remember them. That is CRAZY...I can't believe the word of God is so weak that it will get erased from the human mind by a few years of pot smoke. I mean...I remember all the words to 'Mexican Radio' by Wall of Voodoo and every word to the 'Toll Booth Willie' sketch by Adam Sandler. I even remember every word to the entire movie 'Jaws.' But I forgot the God Damn Hail Mary... HA HA HA....atleast it made me laugh. ;D
Although I don't go to meetings I basically have the beliefs of the Quakers [Friends] My daughter calls them "hippies" because of the anti-war, anti-death penalty, acceptance of others, among other views. I just told her "well there ya go!" I do believe our inner light connects all humanity! So I gotta go with Bonnie Raitt on this one
Basically, I just love jesus, but am completely fine and not judgmental to those who choose to live differently. 
