Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Post by lordrockinhood on Jun 18, 2008 21:41:56 GMT -5
Mosh pits... in the old days, if you fell you could expect a dozen arms to reach out to help you up and then the party resumed... NOW... expect to get trampled (usually, at least... even in friendly pits... there's ALWAYS that ONE guy... )
...and at WS'94, there was moshing to Sheryl Crowe for pete's sake
Instead of joining in... I generally stay at the edge of the pit and guard the innocents as best I can with a few strategic pushes... more and more my role in these modern times at the metal shows
Post by ajsutton88 on Jun 18, 2008 23:12:54 GMT -5
there was a mini mosh pit at the front of gogol bordella...then he played a slow song and it became a slow motion mosh pit. then it got fast again. I was on the edge and got elbowed in the face from a kid with a metallica tshirt...no apology, but gogol was still awesome!
i thought Bonnaroo hippies understand free expression... and moshing is totally 100% expression.
I'm all for free expression dude... I wouldn't have minded the mosh pit either had the meat heads contained it to just those in the pit - - but banking off bystanders and tossing people (me) into the damn thing is not free expression.
I was worried about pits in Metallica (and as some have pointed out, Metallica did not invent violent pits at Roo- they've been there before). I just feel like pits are antithetical to Roo's vibe a bit. Maybe if Metallica had been later in the weekend it would have been more obvious to the new Roo'ers there for Metallica. But who knows.
I can see where your coming from iskew because nowadays from what I understand these pits can get pretty out of hand. Esp. at 'roo with so many people and so many inexperienced moshers. That said is not Bonnaroo all about free expression? And there are many forms of expressing ones self and enjoying music. Mosh pits do not always have to be violent as some have experienced and there main purpose is not to beat the tar out of other people. I used to do pits back in the early eighties at CBGB's and clubs like that to the NYHC (to those unfamiliar thats New York City Hardcore). Had a few friends in different smaller bands and had one of my best friends growing up drum for Agnostic Front for 3 years. Hell I can even remember being in the pit with Mike D and MCA (before they were the Beastie boys) because they would come to CB's to see my friends bands or they would be opening for other bigger hardcore bands and then hitting the pit after there set. In those days the pit was violet but not a free for all and help would be givin if someone went down...some times.... As stated above you were not to just out punch someone in the face. Moshing done properly should not even really involve getting hurt at all. There is constant contact, sure, but it is more like a deflection off of somebody possibly resulting into directly bumping off someone else and so on. I can recall also going through the pit from one side to the other and never getting touched (rare but it happens). Funny thing is I am and have always been a hippie and deadhead at heart. Always into the classic rock and saw countless of those shows, by '84 I was touring with the Dead, jambands bluegrass, long hair (still have it). Would still roadie for my friend when he was in the NY area playing with his other hardcore band The Elite up until like '87, 'the hippie amounst the skinheads'
I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right---P.T. Barnum "As I was walking up the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish to God he'd go away."
There's a reason I steer clear of mosh pits. I've only been in one, and it was totally by accident. I had to walk through one to get to the restroom at a show, got pushed over, fell, busted my head open. Needless to say I wasn't a happy camper.
First, sucks that you got thrown into a pit you didnt want to go into man. That's completely lame and uncalled for.
Second, I take issue w/ the mentality that "all mosh pits are evil and anti-Roo". Horse shit. There was a small, very friendly little mosh-pit near the front/center for Gogol Bordello that I was a part of, and it felt perfectly appropriate for the show. Now I didnt go to Metallica, or Mastadon (i was napping) and dont consider myself a "metal head", but I had a BLAST at Gogol, and I consider them very "Roo friendly" music.
Maybe some people in the pits at other shows were getting out of hand...like I said, I wouldnt know, but I think it's shameful that in a community of free ideas like Bonnaroo, we can still find ways to be exclusive and judgmental. Let people enjoy their music however they want to, and dont condemn them for it. (etiquette breaking a-holes not included)
"We're no longer called Sonic Death Monkey. We're on the verge of becoming Kathleen Turner Overdrive, but just for tonight, we are Barry Jive and his Uptown Five. "
well where do you draw the line then. the fact is that a mosh pit does infact disrupt the show for people who have no intrest in the pit. some people who payed just as much as the moshers wont even go up front to see a show because of it. i think when what your doing starts infringing on other people getting what they paid for its a problem. and if women are being thrown to the ground and people are tossed in unwillingly then security should be there putting a stop to it. they can take our glow sticks and our pipes but they cant stop these idiots at the stage??? and what about people who steal?? should they be free to do so and we should accept it and not judge??? and im not saying mosh pits are completely evil. its one thing to go to one of these shows and have it, its another thing to go to what was built as a peaceful hippie fest and be subjected to it. just another one of the changes that comes with new roo. roo is inching closer and closer to the wood stock 99 cliff. now there are women getting thrown around, gay bashing, chants telling performers to fuck off, bottles being thrown and monitors being broken, legendary artists being shut down early for kanye. roo is dead and it wont be long before new roo goes away too.
Post by lordrockinhood on Jul 15, 2008 22:40:08 GMT -5
Devil's advocate... any person, no matter how accepting, who didn't want to be immersed in non-legal nono's at a festie, but wanted to enjoy said festy, yet was forced to be subjected to and surrounded by people who did, in a "pit" full of it... that perosn paid the same price for entry too... not choosing a side, god knows I have been on most every side at one point, but there are all kinds of wild pits a person may be made to feel uncomfortable and unwelcome around if they are not standing there for that reason at all...
well to me thats the same as what i said about expecting a mosh pit at a metallica concert and not at roo. that is to be expected at roo. as pits are at metal concerts. now if it was a hannah montana concert i could see your point on no nos. people expect that at roo. but they dont expect to be told they are dancing gay and thrown into a pit. old women arent going to roo thinking they will be thrown to the ground. but they probably thought they might smell some reefer here and there.
Last Edit: Jul 15, 2008 22:46:49 GMT -5 by Dude - Back to Top
also in my experiences no no use dosent get in the way of others enjoying the show. and it dosent injure those around it and no one is forced into it unwillingly. it sounds like there were lots of unwilling participants. ive never heard anyone say they couldnt get to or were afraid to go to the fron because of no nos. but i know it happens with moshing. again i think it boils down to getting in the way of others getting what they paid for and people get hurt. oh well thats why these bands are only playing roo and not at other fests
There's definitely a mosh etiquette at metal shows, but since many people at Bonnaroo aren't necessarily part of the scene, they have no idea about how to act. Moshing is just about releasing energy in a violently non-violent way (if that makes sense). I was on the edge of a pit at an Opeth (Swedish death metal for those who have no idea who they are) show once and some dude elbowed me in the face. When the song was over he came over to me, apologized, and gave me a big hug. The odd thing is that I felt more love in the air at a death metal concert than I did during most of Bonnaroo this year.
Karma + because I'm sorry for you. Roo was vibetacular for me.
well to me thats the same as what i said about expecting a mosh pit at a metallica concert and not at roo. that is to be expected at roo. as pits are at metal concerts. now if it was a hannah montana concert i could see your point on no nos. people expect that at roo. but they dont expect to be told they are dancing gay and thrown into a pit. old women arent going to roo thinking they will be thrown to the ground. but they probably thought they might smell some reefer here and there.
Dude, really? Metallica played...it was a Metallica concert. Weather or not it's on a farm in Manchester doesnt make it any less of a metal show. It's not like people were wandering aimless into some act they had never heard of. It's freaking Metallica...you ought to have some vague idea what to expect. Now we can debate the appropriateness of Metallica at 'Roo till the cows come home...I for one am indifferent, but the nature of a Metallica show shouldnt sneak up on anyone just because it was at Bonnaroo.
"We're no longer called Sonic Death Monkey. We're on the verge of becoming Kathleen Turner Overdrive, but just for tonight, we are Barry Jive and his Uptown Five. "
Post by steveternal on Jul 15, 2008 23:35:05 GMT -5
Terrible story, sorry to hear your misfortune. Also, moshpits are undeniably dangerous.
All the same, if done properly they can be beautiful. My first true moshpit experience was this year at Mastodon. I was standing in the middle of the crowd, not feeling the show as much as I expected, when suddenly during the third or fourth song the whole middle of the tent opened up and kids started moshing. I was initially annoyed, to be pushed out of the way like that. But soon I began to realize how the whole attitude-- or vibe, if you will-- of the crowd changed when the moshpit opened. All of a sudden it was a real community of people. Dammit, there was love and respect. I had heard of this happening, but never believed it until I experienced it myself. I was close to the perimeter of the pit and had my wife's expensive Nikon on me, so I figured I'd try to take some nice shots of the activity. The people around me noticed what I was doing and helped me and my camera to stay safe. They certainly didn't have to do that; if the camera broke, it would totally have been my fault. But they did it. In addition, because the crowd was actually moving, I felt freedom to move around in the crowd and know I wouldn't piss anyone off, so I was able to get different angles of the pit, and ultimately get up close after the show in anticipation for the Zappa show.
The moral of this story is, I can honestly say, without exaggeration, that the crowd at Mastodon was the friendliest and most respectful that I experienced all weekend, and it was because of the moshpit. So it can be done well, and it can be a beautiful thing.