Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Post by strumntheguitar on Nov 14, 2008 11:30:21 GMT -5
The arguments of "Who's poorer than who" and "who's had it rougher" and "who's lived in Mississippi and who hasn't" are all just petty and ridiculous, for lack of a better 'r-word' I would typically use in this situation.
I can say however that Mississippi is not the only place where people abuse welfare. The state in which you reside has absolutely no effect on your knowledge of a political and social issue.
Post by chicojuarz on Nov 14, 2008 12:21:53 GMT -5
And now back to your originally scheduled program....
This makes me very VERY happy
A source close to transition team tells CNN that Obama is also trying to build a diverse Cabinet that includes women and minorities and that works as a team
A source close to transition team tells CNN that Obama is also trying to build a diverse Cabinet that includes women and minorities and that works as a team
i know this is an extremely heated and very personal topic, but we have to try to keep it civil and reign in the personal attacks all around.
let's keep it on topic without directly pointing fingers, so we don't have to lock it up!
thank you
I apologize - I'll bow out so that you don't have to lock the topic - it has been a pretty informative thread
Please don't - while I can't say that I agree with your opinion, different perspectives are what keeps the discussion interesting. It'd be a pretty boring debate if everyone were on the same side of the political aisle. Just as long as everyone remains civil about it. No more ad hominem attacks, please.
I realize a lot of people milk the system for all that it's worth, but there are also a lot of folks who do need help badly. Yeah, there are people who will just go out and splurge on extravagances, but I feel like most of them don't. Welfare does need to be reconfigured, but not by denying poor people the right to a bit of money.
I used to date a girl whose dad had abandoned the family to run off with his secretary, and whose mom was unable to work because of a massive brain aneurysm she'd had years earlier. They'd been on welfare for a number of years, but did not live beyond their means at all. I'd hate to see them not even receive their welfare check because certain folks abuse the program. It's a tricky thing to make a blanket statement about, because everyone's situation is different. Personally, I'd rather know that some folks out there are abusing the system, than know that some folks who need help can't get any government assistance - even if it means cutting a bigger check to the IRS come April 15th.
Last Edit: Nov 14, 2008 12:44:41 GMT -5 by jack324 - Back to Top
I don't think we should help people who live above their means.
All I said was that I understand how it can happen that someone making $250K can be struggling.
It's like when I was in college - going to Applebee's was an extravagance. Buying heady nugs instead of some downtown brown was a super rare occurrence. Now, I'm in a different situation where Applebee's is about the last place I'd have dinner and would rather have nothing if the good stuff wasn't available.
I *could* have racked up a huge credit card bill and lived life to the fullest, but I was frugal and lived within my $150 bi-weekly paychecks.
See - that is where my issue with welfare comes into play - "most" (not all) of the people that are on welfare - are living in government houseing, collecting a government check and food stamps. They eat better then I do - they buy steak and hamburger meat for their dog, they wear brand name clothing - not just brand name - designer clothing and drive cars that i cannot afford insurance on. How? because they are milking the system. The sit at home and sell NO NO WORD!!!! to make spending money - all the while collecting the govt. check because the NO NO WORD!!!! money - of course - is an all cash business so they don't have to report it as income.
Meg this is a pretty general statement. Most research has shown this doesn’t happen as much as people say. The problem is the people who do are the loudest and most obvious. As a therapist in a not-for-profit agency I see a lot of people and work with them who are recovering from drug addiction. Many have had rough lives and are doing well. We get them food stamps and such to help them out. Most of them work their way out of the system and are very thankful about the opportunities given to them. However, many are judges while they are working on improving their lives. I have taken them to the store why they used food stamps and have seen the treatment by the stores. Most of all with technology it is more difficult, not impossible, to abuse the system. Things are tracked better. If a person is caught and convicted of dealing illigal controlled substances they lose their benefits. The state, most states, check criminal records and other incomes through the IRS and other sources. Sure there are people who abuse “the system” but I bet it is not even near corporate welfare that has been screwing the system for years and years. There has never been a 700 billion bailout bill for the poor past while they went on $300,000 vacations.
Please don't - while I can't say that I agree with your opinion, different perspectives are what keeps the discussion interesting. It'd be a pretty boring debate if everyone were on the same side of the political aisle. Just as long as everyone remains civil about it. No more ad hominem attacks, please.
I realize a lot of people milk the system for all that it's worth, but there are also a lot of folks who do need help badly. Yeah, there are people who will just go out and splurge on extravagances, but I feel like most of them don't. Welfare does need to be reconfigured, but not by denying poor people the right to a bit of money.
I agree with this statement completely. I am not advocating getting rid of welfare and I would not object to my tax payer dollars going towards it if we can figure out how to fix it
I used to date a girl whose dad had abandoned the family to run off with his secretary, and whose mom was unable to work because of a massive brain aneurysm she'd had years earlier. They'd been on welfare for a number of years, but did not live beyond their means at all. I'd hate to see them not even receive their welfare check because certain folks abuse the program. It's a tricky thing to make a blanket statement about, because everyone's situation is different. Personally, I'd rather know that some folks out there are abusing the system, than know that some folks who need help can't get any government assistance - even if it means cutting a bigger check to the IRS come April 15th.
I realize there will always be people that abuse the system and there will always be people that need the system so there is no happy answer here for me
Last Edit: Nov 14, 2008 13:08:09 GMT -5 by Meg - Back to Top
Personally, I'd rather know that some folks out there are abusing the system, than know that some folks who need help can't get any government assistance
See - that is where my issue with welfare comes into play - "most" (not all) of the people that are on welfare - are living in government houseing, collecting a government check and food stamps. They eat better then I do - they buy steak and hamburger meat for their dog, they wear brand name clothing - not just brand name - designer clothing and drive cars that i cannot afford insurance on. How? because they are milking the system. The sit at home and sell NO NO WORD!!!! to make spending money - all the while collecting the govt. check because the NO NO WORD!!!! money - of course - is an all cash business so they don't have to report it as income.
Meg this is a pretty general statement. Most research has shown this doesn’t happen as much as people say. The problem is the people who do are the loudest and most obvious. As a therapist in a not-for-profit agency I see a lot of people and work with them who are recovering from NO NO WORD!!!! addiction. Many have had rough lives and are doing well. We get them food stamps and such to help them out. Most of them work their way out of the system and are very thankful about the opportunities given to them. However, many are judges while they are working on improving their lives. I have taken them to the store why they used food stamps and have seen the treatment by the stores. Most of all with technology it is more difficult, not impossible, to abuse the system. Things are tracked better. If a person is caught and convicted of dealing illigal controlled substances they lose their benefits. The state, most states, check criminal records and other incomes through the IRS and other sources. Sure there are people who abuse “the system” but I bet it is not even near corporate welfare that has been screwing the system for years and years. There has never been a 700 billion bailout bill for the poor past while they went on $300,000 vacations.
It is a general statement and from the things that *I* have seen - there is alot of abuse out there. I wish things were tacked alot better then they are now. there are way too many people that collect their welfare check while also making cash monet under the table.
As for the "If a person is caught and convicted of dealing illigal controlled substances they lose their benefits." while this is true - there are ways around it also.
and I wholeheartedly agree with your last comment about "There has never been a 700 billion bailout bill for the poor past while they went on $300,000 vacations."
Now - since we all will basically have to agree to disagree about our positions regarding welfare - should we move on to another subject
Social Security anyone?? Any ideas on how it can be fixed?
Meg, you guys are still my favorate republicans. As far as Social Security. I have no clue how to fix it. Now that unemployment is the highest it has been in over 25 years there is no money going in. I think good jobs with protected retirement plans could help.
I think we make the boys and girls in D.C. take Social Security like the rest of us. Then they'd have it fixed within a week.
That just might work but I don't see that happening. Seriously tho - I am concerned and I am sure others are - by the time I am old enough to be eligible for SS - there will be nothing left. I will have spent my whole working life paying into something that I will end up getting no benefit from. In my mind - that just makes no sense but I am not sure what the solution is.
Privatization? Revamp the current social security system somehow?
^^^ I agree. I don't want privatization though. I think the stock market is too unstable, and there are also a lot of folks who wont put that money back and THEN we end up with a whole lot of folk needing welfare when we all get to retirement age. I think we have to find a way to revamp it, stop taking loans out of it is the first thing that comes to mind. After the past couple months, I'm starting to think the best place for my money is under my mattress.
Meg, you guys are still my favorate republicans. As far as Social Security. I have no clue how to fix it. Now that unemployment is the highest it has been in over 25 years there is no money going in. I think good jobs with protected retirement plans could help.
That's just because we are fairly liberal Republicans - ;D (did I really just say that?) LMAO
enlighten me a little - "protected" retirement plans? How so? SS is a subject where I have no knowledge whatsoever other then our system is screwed and there will be nothing left for me when I need it.
Meg, you guys are still my favorate republicans. As far as Social Security. I have no clue how to fix it. Now that unemployment is the highest it has been in over 25 years there is no money going in. I think good jobs with protected retirement plans could help.
That's just because we are fairly liberal Republicans - ;D (did I really just say that?) LMAO
enlighten me a little - "protected" retirement plans? How so? SS is a subject where I have no knowledge whatsoever other then our system is screwed and there will be nothing left for me when I need it.
Protected would mean that a company cant rob from it to pay its debts and give CEO's millions of dollars in bonus. THis has happend a lot when peoples retirement was lost the CEO's rated it. So it would be private in part but not able to be touched by the company. Maybe insured by the federal government.
everything i've read seems to indicate that social security is screwed because there are soon going to be more people collecting than contributing.
this problem is further exacerbated because the gov't has been using soc sec surplus money as a private fund and issuing iou's to itself that will likely never be repaid. a nice one-two punch!
^^^Ok - so similar to what happened with WorldComm when it went down. I get it. I guess I just don't think about that aspect because mine is federal retirement (I am pretty sure that it's insured)
That's just because we are fairly liberal Republicans - ;D (did I really just say that?) LMAO
im glad im not the only republican on here...i thought that i would be run off just by mentioning the word...i, also, am on the liberal side of republicanism
want to apologize to all for even bringing up the whole welfare issue...i did not mean for it to turn into a UFC match
That's just because we are fairly liberal Republicans - ;D (did I really just say that?) LMAO
im glad im not the only republican on here...i thought that i would be run off just by mentioning the word...i, also, am on the liberal side of republicanism
want to apologize to all for even bringing up the whole welfare issue...i did not mean for it to turn into a UFC match
heh - roofanintn calls us Rethuglicans - LOL That just means we can call them Democraps.
You would be surprised - there are about 5 or 6 Republicans on here - we just lay low most of the time.
I am sorry the welfare issue took the turn it did - it was going along nicely until I lost my temper this morning. i apologize for that - sometimes it would be better for me to just walk away from the computer rather then be goaded into petty attacks. Live and learn.
anyway - so what is the solution with SS - if we have more people that will be collecting then money going into it. The government keeps taking out loans from it that they will never pay back - what do we do - start doing away with the geriatric generation so that there is something left when we get old?
I think we could take a slice from other programs...say, Defense? Now before this goes all whacky again, let me state: I am a pro-defense democrat. I do, however, think there is a BUNCH of waste at the Pentagon. I'm talking BILLIONS of dollars of waste.
Maybe if Obama can really reign in the pork spending, we could get some dollars from that.
I think we could take a slice from other programs...say, Defense? Now before this goes all whacky again, let me state: I am a pro-defense democrat. I do, however, think there is a BUNCH of waste at the Pentagon. I'm talking BILLIONS of dollars of waste.
Maybe if Obama can really reign in the pork spending, we could get some dollars from that.
I don't know. It's messed up royally.
After getting involved in some Quality Management seminars I believe our government would be sooooo much better off if there was a manadatory management education program for elected and appointed officials.
I think we could take a slice from other programs...say, Defense? Now before this goes all whacky again, let me state: I am a pro-defense democrat. I do, however, think there is a BUNCH of waste at the Pentagon. I'm talking BILLIONS of dollars of waste.
Maybe if Obama can really reign in the pork spending, we could get some dollars from that.
I don't know. It's messed up royally.
But really - it does cost $10,000 for a hammer - NOT I agree with you on this. I am very pro-defense - defense of the USA - not being the police for the world. I also agree that our defense spending is out of control. What was the other ridiculous item that taxpayers paid a fortune for? Toilet seats maybe???
I find this thread too combative and argumentative for something with a title ending in "-rama." Not to mention the lack of emphasis on the "Obama-" part...
I just caught up with everything since page one, and have seen just one reference to potential Cabinet appointments?
Hillary's name has been starting to get thrown around as a potential Secretary of State. John Kerry and Bill Richardson were other speculated possibilities.
I've heard RFK Jr's name mentioned as a likely Secretary of the Interior.
Treasury's one of the most watched. Some of the names that keep popping up are investor Warren Buffett, former Fed Chair (and Obama advisor) Paul Volcker, and former Treasury Secretary (at end of Clinton administration) Larry Summers. It's an outside shot, but I think I like Princeton prof/NY Times columnist Paul Krugman... it's kind of hard to compete with the most recent Nobel Prize in Economics.
Ugh, that's a lot of former Clintonites though... we voted for change, didn't we?
I wouldn't be surprised to see Bernanke stay on at the Fed and Gates to (at least temporarily) continue on at Defense. I think Wesley Clark or Colin Powell would be good there.
Attorney General's another tough call. If you'd asked me to guess two potentials at the beginning of this year, I would've said Eliot Spitzer or John Edwards. Somehow, I don't think either of those options are going to happen...
Anyone going to the inauguration? I checked with my Senators' office about tickets and there's weren't any. I'm not expecting much to come out of being told I'm on a waiting list, either...
I *might* be going to the inauguration. Might. Plane tickets are sky rocketing and I won't believe we have tickets to the inaugural events until I have physical proof.
I don't like Hilary for Secretary of State. Isn't the Secretary of State supposed to be strong on international affairs? I just didn't think that was Hilary's strong point compared to other domestic issues like health care.
And Election Night at Grant Park pics are up in My Mug Nothing like some cute pics to bring everyone together... I know how Meg likes to gush in the My Mug thread
Last Edit: Nov 14, 2008 19:22:45 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
And Election Night at Grant Park pics are up in My Mug Nothing like some cute pics to bring everyone together... I know how Meg likes to gush in the My Mug thread
^^Oh, do you really want me to go back and assemble quotes? Don't try to look like a hardass in this thread, you have used the word "adorable" more than once in that thread, that I'm sure of!