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Sorry to co-opt the thread temporarily. This is a kick ass brew and I am a major beer snob and brewer. I have had plenty of opportunity to drink this one even though I'm a midwesterner and TS makes it nowhere near me. My mom lives about 3 hours form the Montana brewery in the "isthmus" of Idaho. IMHO this beer "slays" the regional favorite Fat Tire. No wonder that it comes from Missoula, Montana...the only oasis of musical and artistic culture for miles and miles-kind of an Asheville of Montana !!
And besides-FM has already admitted that the trout have him outsmarted... although he'd probably argue that fly fishing is for prettyboys...
Last Edit: Sept 29, 2009 8:04:00 GMT -5 by red - Back to Top
And besides-FM has already admitted that the trout have him outsmarted... although he'd probably argue that fly fishing is for prettyboys...
I never said that the trout have me outsmarted. I've barely fished for them. I've only gone trout fishing once in Utah. I caught two and got eebed by a big one. Fly fishing is hardly for pretty boys. For starters fly fishing only refers to the style of tack used. I kno w several guys that use heavy duty fly tackle in the surf including one guy who has a NJ state record weakfish on given tip test. I have not gotten into fly fishing much for two reasons. 1. I don't have the time or money to take up another form of fishing. 2. As far as I can tell it is the most obsessive form of fishing out there. I've already got and unhealthy relationship with my rod.
...... That didn't read exaclty how I intended it.
Good answer. I was just "baiting" you on the trout jab for a fishin' sidebar. Been dabbling with salmonoids as of late. My predominant style is lake fishing-grew up fishing lake Erie and inland lakes for walleye, crappie, perch, smallies, white bass, etc. Lots of reef drifting, trolling, jiggin'. Been chasing Northern Pike in some slow water lately.
But we have steelhead stocked in a number of Lake Erie tribs along the Ohio/ Pennsylvania coast. Elusive bastards, especially because they are non indigenous, and ALL kinds of freaked out. Often, you can see them in the tribs in holding patterns, but none will take an eggsack or maggot tipped jig or nuthin'. Totally frustrating, and i understand it is a regularity amongst trout experiences. I have seen said "prettyboys" in all their shiny costly gear line up "asses and elbows" by the hundreds in streams you could piss across.
My Mom lived in Alaska for most of her life so I have had opportunity to fly fish for kings and silvers and humpies/reds in bigwater up there(she also has a house for sale on an ocean fed lake in the wilderness in AK). Now she lives in Idaho on the Salmon River, steelhead capital of the world. So whenever I have gotten to visit mom over the last twenty years-fishing has been good.
So what I'm saying is, we should break water some day. And also, if you know anyone who wants a good deal on a 7 acre lakefront property with a nice house, a well, a sauna, woodshed, 15k generator and NO FRIGGIN' NEIGHBORS FOR HOURS...hit me up.
Good answer. I was just "baiting" you on the trout jab for a fishin' sidebar. Been dabbling with salmonoids as of late. My predominant style is lake fishing-grew up fishing lake Erie and inland lakes for walleye, crappie, perch, smallies, white bass, etc. Lots of reef drifting, trolling, jiggin'. Been chasing Northern Pike in some slow water lately.
But we have steelhead stocked in a number of Lake Erie tribs along the Ohio/ Pennsylvania coast. Elusive bastards, especially because they are non indigenous, and ALL kinds of freaked out. Often, you can see them in the tribs in holding patterns, but none will take an eggsack or maggot tipped jig or nuthin'. Totally frustrating, and i understand it is a regularity amongst trout experiences. I have seen said "prettyboys" in all their shiny costly gear line up "asses and elbows" by the hundreds in streams you could piss across.
My Mom lived in Alaska for most of her life so I have had opportunity to fly fish for kings and silvers and humpies/reds in bigwater up there(she also has a house for sale on an ocean fed lake in the wilderness in AK). Now she lives in Idaho on the Salmon River, steelhead capital of the world. So whenever I have gotten to visit mom over the last twenty years-fishing has been good.
So what I'm saying is, we should break water some day. And also, if you know anyone who wants a good deal on a 7 acre lakefront property with a nice house, a well, a sauna, woodshed, 15k generator and NO FRIGGIN' NEIGHBORS FOR HOURS...hit me up.
Have you ever been out of the country? If so, where?
Canada and Bermuda. That's it. It used to seem like the job would send me to Japan at some point, but that's unlikely now with the new restructuring of my division.
Michael Moore is a hypocrite scumbag vulture. To start with he makes his money by exploiting tragedy. Columbine, 9/11, etc. Each one of these things causes Michael Moore to see dollar signs. People die and Micheal Moore makes a movie with a clever title. This guy makes a movie about how terrible it is to own guns and then makes a movie complaining that the government is taking away our freedoms. The second amendment was implemented in order to keep a balance of power between the people and the government. Michael Moore wants to have it both ways. You can't scorn the second amendment and then cash in on the Bill of Rights. It's amazing to me that people buy into this horseshit. His latest endeavor is to attack capitalism. Michael Moore has become rich off of capitalism. It's his best friend. NO other economic system would enable him to spew his commie filth and get paid for it. I hope they make t-shirts hats and actions figures for his latest love story. It would make perfect sense. I will admit that the guy is clever and witty, but I can't stand his frumpy fat ass wagging his finger at me all holier than though and looking down his nose the whole time lining his pockets with other peoples' misery.
Michael Moore should get the f*ck out of America and never come back. He obviously hates everything for which it stands.
Post by Fishing Maniac on Sept 30, 2009 8:37:00 GMT -5
I am a huge supporter of the second amendment. I do support waiting periods and background checks as they are just common sense. However, those who throw around the term "gun control" as a euphemism for firearms prohibition strike a deep rooted fear within me. The second amendment, despite what any hunter tells you, was designed to create a balance of power between the people and the government. It was not designed to allow for deer poaching with automatic rifles.
The second amendment also makes reference to "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."
The well regulated militia has been argued to be the National Guard. I don't consider a military body that fires on peaceably assembled citizens at the order of the commander in chief to be of any assistance to the "security of a free state."
To me the second amendment, in light of the tyranny seen under Bush which is now tightening under Obama (no one listened when I tried to point out how similar they are. ), is more important than ever. It is the only set of rights designed as the final defense of our other rights against an oppressive and misguided government.
For the record I don't own any guns yet. This will change soon.
That's the intelligent way to support the 2nd amendment -kudos !
On another note, I always like to remind folks that Michael Moore is a film maker. You don't have to judge his right to citizenship by the content of his movies. By the same logic, I could banish Walt Disney for simply making children's movies because I HATED "Herbie the Love Bug..."
I believe his answer to your love it or leave it position, would be to suggest that you stop seeing his movies if they affect you so. In effect, "My Movie-Love it or Leave it ".
The measure of your ire combined with your anti leftist angle tells ME that Mike Moore is doing something right. We can go on to argue whether or not corporate subsidies are truly capitalist and whether affected companies should get the hell out of America too, but I'd suppose that should be left for a thread that you vacated a while ago. Volley.
Are any corporations in this country "too big to fail" in your opinion ?
How can we hold big polluters like Exxon culpable and still expect our daddies to have oil riggin' jobs ?
Does corporate profit off the citizenship of this country, especially during wartime, mandate that US taxes be paid in full... or is offshore tax evasion by formerly "American" companies justified because the employment they provide ?
Last Edit: Sept 30, 2009 9:14:56 GMT -5 by red - Back to Top
Post by Fishing Maniac on Sept 30, 2009 10:44:00 GMT -5
That sounds like a whole new thread actually, and not one without merit.
How could you hate Herbie the Love Bug? I mean the original with Buddy Hacket from 1968.
I'm not a love it or leave it type, but Moore seems to hate everything about it so why keep complaining. Just leave. Many others have. He can't curse the Bill of Rights and Demand the constitution be lived up to at the same time and expect intelligent people to view him with any credibility. For the record I don't go see his movies. I've seen enough to know where he's coming from. There was a time, not long ago, when documentaries documented things other than the filmmakers opinion. In fact I worked on some of them. These video essay opinion pieces are as misleading as politically skewed "news" sources (be them the leftist NY Times or the conservative Fox News). The term "documentary" makes people think what they are watching is fact and not opinion.
I'm not saying that Moore doesn't have the right to make his films and speak his mind. Certainly he does. Comparing it to a Disney film is somewhat obtuse. I think that if his opinion is that The Bill of Rights Sucks and the economic system of Capitalism sucks then he should go to a place where they don't have those things. China for example has no right to bear arms and is not Capitalist.
1) I don't actually hate on Herbie movies, just making the example that if you don't like content, you are free to watch something else.
2)A true patriot will stick around and try to effect the change that they think is needed to improve the country. If Michael Moore left the country, many haters would say that he "cut and run". It's lose/lose if you listen to your critics(especially those who marginalize your art into what they expect it includes rather than seeing it for themselves).
3) It is moot to discuss any art that you have not seen and expect to be taken seriously. Love it or hate it, I knew that you had not seen "Bowling for Columbine" for instance. You merely took his title which included "Columbine" and blamed him for exploiting tragedy similar to the way Toby Keith did 9/11. Had you seen the film, you would be forced to admit that he wasn't exploiting the tragedy, but rather pointing out the reasons for it having happened and how to proceed in order to avoid it in the future. And he actually REALLY BROUGHT HOME the point you made about the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
Much of your logic is flawed to include "baby with the bathwater" reasoning, something I have seen you hold against dems and reps as "reactionary".
See his movies. Be an informed critic. Or you just sound like FoxNews.
Prefer infotainment or news ?
Last Edit: Sept 30, 2009 11:25:08 GMT -5 by red - Back to Top
Michael Moore should get the f*ck out of America and never come back. He obviously hates everything for which it stands.
I actually think he hates what it has come to stand for. Tax evasion, corporate profits prioritized over worker rights, white collar crime, waste, greed, unaccountability ad infinitem. And he makes movies about what he believes. "Roger and Me" is friggin' brilliant and ahead of it's time. Who knew then, that GM would continue to exploit employees, driver safety, the environment, etc. all the way to their eventual bankruptcy and bailout. I still can't get Chevy to stand behind the cheap electronic Chinese parts they put in their vehicles. But they still wanna blame the union installer and bluff idiots into "Buying American".
Michael Moore and FoxNews are both infotainment. Fox wants dollars and Moore wants sense.
Sorry for the double post. And back to the thread topic....
If you could make whatever ONE change to our constitution, what would it be ?
and p.s.-I think this is all good discussion so please don't take any of my words personally. I have great respect for anyone who can take me higher via their own well founded logic...
Are any corporations in this country "too big to fail" in your opinion ?
How can we hold big polluters like Exxon culpable and still expect our daddies to have oil riggin' jobs ?
Does corporate profit off the citizenship of this country, especially during wartime, mandate that US taxes be paid in full... or is offshore tax evasion by formerly "American" companies justified because the employment they provide ?
You're getting into an area that requires greater economic expertise than I possess.
I'm not sure what you mean by "too big to fail". I assume that you are referring to something like AIG that "they" (... no comment on that right now) said would crush the economy if it failed. I'm very laissez-faire about business, but only to a point. I think that companies shouldn't be able to get so big that they can't fail. It's bad for competition which in turn is bad for consumers. Not sure if that answers your question.
I have way bigger problems with Exxon/Mobil than just polution. I think a better word than "culpable" would be accountable. Companies, regardless of size and scope should be held accountable for their actions. In theory accountability should prevent these actions from repeating. Ultimately, in a true macro sense, which is how I attempt to look at the world, this forced responsibility should ensure.future proof industries such as this. Esuring growth ad development creates new jobs as industries transform. One example would be the switch from fossil fuels to bio fuels in the energy industry. There are significant issues with that in practice, but I'm just siting it as an example..
Off shore tax evasion comes down on the citizens. That money needs to come from somewhere and when there are no other options left, it's our taxes that increase to make up the difference. This one thing on which I whole heartedly agreed with Obama. Unfortunately all he did was talk about it.
All he is supposed to do is talk about it. He is a corporate shill. That is the only way to get elected. Be electable. That means act like you are for one thing, but take a bunch of $ from folks that support NO CHANGE whatsoever. And as long as two sides point at each other like the status quo is the only option, and their tools tell us we are "wasting" our votes otherwise, we get what we vote for. All of these young dems out there campaigning for change a year ago, where are they now ? They consider their civic duty done once they pull the lever.
1) I don't actually hate on Herbie movies, just making the example that if you don't like content, you are free to watch something else.
2)A true patriot will stick around and try to effect the change that they think is needed to improve the country. If Michael Moore left the country, many haters would say that he "cut and run". It's lose/lose if you listen to your critics(especially those who marginalize your art into what they expect it includes rather than seeing it for themselves).
3) It is moot to discuss any art that you have not seen and expect to be taken seriously. Love it or hate it, I knew that you had not seen "Bowling for Columbine" for instance. You merely took his title which included "Columbine" and blamed him for exploiting tragedy similar to the way Toby Keith did 9/11. Had you seen the film, you would be forced to admit that he wasn't exploiting the tragedy, but rather pointing out the reasons for it having happened and how to proceed in order to avoid it in the future. And he actually REALLY BROUGHT HOME the point you made about the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment.
Much of your logic is flawed to include "baby with the bathwater" reasoning, something I have seen you hold against dems and reps as "reactionary".
See his movies. Be an informed critic. Or you just sound like FoxNews.
Prefer infotainment or news ?
I never said that I have not seen any of his movies. I said that I don't go see them. Now in one place you tell me not to watch something that I don't like. On the other you criticize me for doing exactly that. Pick one. You can't have it both ways. You and Michael Moore appear to me to have something in common there.
We'll just have to agre to disagree. I interpret Moore's film's differently and also find them self contradictory. At least those that I have seen. FYI I processed footage for use in Fahrenheit 9/11.
You also have a very different definition of the word "Patriot".
Ans seriously the point of this thread is not to bait into post hoc fallacy and question begging my political views. You are derailing this thread somewhat.
I agree with your interpretation (shocker, I know), BUT, do you really believe an armed citizenry could stand up to the might of the military and the police?
I agree with your interpretation (shocker, I know), BUT, do you really believe an armed citizenry could stand up to the might of the military and the police?
I hope we never have to find out.
I think some of those wackos in the mid-west who spend their weekends preparing might have a shot at it.
I suppose it's more theoretical. I mean we haven't got any jet fighters. I think George Carlin put it well when he said "We don't have any flame throwers do we? I suppose we're fucked if we go up against the government." In theory it would discourage such outrageous actions by the government. We need to elect leaders who have more respect for the inherency of certain rights than we have in recent decades. That would, IMO, make a bigger difference. Regardless, I'd rather go down swinging.
Just pig latin and techno work jargon. Some say the latter is not English. At they tell me to speak English when I answer their questions.
I shot TV news and sports for years. I've met lots of famous people. Politicos; Hillary, Schumer, Pataki, the NY crowd, sports figures; Mets, Jets, Islanders mostly, a few Rangers, yanks and some basketball folks, also opposing NFL teams (I covered the Jets), again the NY crowd, a few celebs. I meet famous people doing trade shows occasionally. I've met most of the Ramones and most of the members of the punk and ska bands that played in and around NYC in the late 90's. I've met a bunch of people actually. I find it hard to remember. I met somebody very famous and I can't remember who it was. I met the guy from the Jerky Boys outside of Penn Station once.
What is your definition of a patriot if it is not someone who puts themselves in a position to effect the change that MANY in this country want to see happen?
Would MLK not be considered a patriot because he wanted to see a change in American principles?
-When I Hear My Name -Dead Leaves and the Dirty Ground -Blue Orchid -Passive Manipulation -Red Rain -Death Letter -My Doorbell -Hotel Yorba -Same Boy You've Always Known -Lovesick -Little Ghost -We're Going to Be Friends -The Hardest Button to Button -Black Math -The Nurse -I Just Don't Know What to Do With Myself
Encore: -Ball and Biscuit -Seven Nation Army -Screwdriver
What is your definition of a patriot if it is not someone who puts themselves in a position to effect the change that MANY in this country want to see happen?
Would MLK not be considered a patriot because he wanted to see a change in American principles?
enough with the loaded questions please. This obviously refers to the questions from earlier about Michael Moore. I'm not going to dignify a question that insinuates a comparison between MLK and Michael Moore with any response. Drawing such a parallel, even if it's only insinuated, is just shameful.
), is more important than ever. It is the only set of rights designed as the final defense of our other rights against an oppressive and misguided government. 
