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Post by gatheringking on Aug 28, 2009 13:57:01 GMT -5
This made me throw-up in my mouth a little.
Bob Dylan, the singer-songwriter who has taken his fans down Highway 61 by way of Lonely Avenue and Desolation Row, is in negotiations to voice a satellite navigation system.
The music star claimed that he has been approached by more than one manufacturer keen to harness his unmistakeable, rasping tones - a voice which one critic memorably likened to sandpaper. He shared the news with listeners to his late-night radio show, Theme Time Radio Hour, which is broadcast on BBC Six Music.
“You know I don’t usually like to tell people what I’m doing, but I’m talking to a couple of car companies about the possibility of being the voice of their GPS system,” he disclosed.
Motorists who follow Dylan’s directions, however, may take some time to reach their destination. “I think it would be good if you are looking for directions and you heard my voice saying something like, ‘Left at the next street.... No, right... You know what? Just go straight." He added: "I probably shouldn’t do it because whichever way I go, I always end up at one place - Lonely Avenue.”
Dylan, 66, would not be the first celebrity to lend his voice to a GPS system. TomTom, the sat-nav manufacturer, currently offers the voices of Homer Simpson and John Cleese, while Kim Cattrall, the Sex and the City actress, and The A Team actor Mr T are also popular among British motorists.
Several websites offer impersonations of celebrity voices for download, with Sean Connery, Ozzy Osbourne and David Hasselhoff among the favourites for drivers who consider the computerised sat-nav tones to be on the boring side.
Eddie Izzard, the comedian, offers his own set of directions, which include phrases such as: “For God’s sake, turn left!” and “Bear left, monkey right.”
This would not be Dylan’s first foray into the commercial world. Earlier this year, he surprised many of his fans by allowing his music to be used in a television advert. Blowin’ In The Wind, his 1963 anthem, was featured in a commercial for the Co-operative Group.
I staunchly resent countercultural iconic figures who sell out and give lame reasons. Bob and Steve Earle are at the forefront. Steve sold "The Revolution Starts Now" to Chevy. George Carlin whored for MCI, etc. They all cite alimony as a reason. Steve Earle has said that his monthly overhead is more than 50 grand.
Whatever. I, too , think it's crap. Neil Young is one of the few left who doesn't lend his name to anything but goodness. He justifies his tours at ClearChannel/LiveNation/bohemoth whomever venues by suggesting that "they provide him the rope to hang them with".
Now on an ENTIRELY selfish level, I would LOVE to hear dylan's voice telling me where to go. Anyone who has listened to his Theme Time Radio broadcast must admit that the phrasing and buzz of his between song anecdotes and introductions is very entertaining. I often can be found imitating his cadence and "flutter" around the house.... "The hummingbird burns more energy than the ENTIRE city of Tupelo....Here's a number by the hummingbird four, not from Tupelo, but a little town called Memphis on up the road....."
I staunchly resent countercultural iconic figures who sell out and give lame reasons. Bob and Steve Earle are at the forefront. Steve sold "The Revolution Starts Now" to Chevy. George Carlin whored for MCI, etc. They all cite alimony as a reason. Steve Earle has said that his monthly overhead is more than 50 grand.
Whatever. I, too , think it's crap. Neil Young is one of the few left who doesn't lend his name to anything but goodness. He justifies his tours at ClearChannel/LiveNation/bohemoth whomever venues by suggesting that "they provide him the rope to hang them with".
Now on an ENTIRELY selfish level, I would LOVE to hear dylan's voice telling me where to go. Anyone who has listened to his Theme Time Radio broadcast must admit that the phrasing and buzz of his between song anecdotes and introductions is very entertaining. I often can be found imitating his cadence and "flutter" around the house.... "The hummingbird burns more energy than the ENTIRE city of Tupelo....Here's a number by the hummingbird four, not from Tupelo, but a little town called Memphis on up the road....."
I tend to not be surprised about news like this anymore. It just seems like it happens a lot more than it used to. But who am I to judge....I don't know anything about these guys personal lives.
I do agree with what you said for the most part....and Neil Young is a hero of mine so I hear what you're saying 100%. He's the man.
Post by strumntheguitar on Aug 29, 2009 0:08:10 GMT -5
I dunno, I've always been one to take the stance of "who cares" with artist selling their music, or in this case- voice, to the world. I mean, personally I would love to have Dylan directing me to my destination of choice as opposed to that boring old voice that comes with it. I wouldn't pay for it, but I would enjoy it.
And I do enjoy when I'm watching the tube and I hear a good song come on during a commercial. I mean, I tend to hate commercials... so at least I get to hear a good song while watching those pieces of crap.
I guess I just consider it impractical to expect a great musician to not take advantage of a situation to make a few extra millions. I would do the exact same thing if I was given the opportunity, no matter how much money I was already worth.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Aug 29, 2009 9:38:16 GMT -5
good way to use a musician's lyrics and music for a commecial:
jack white was asked to make a coca cola commercial
bad way:
Johnny Cash's song Walk the Line gets softened up for a jean commercial
I really don't care either....like Strum said.....I just still like to believe in guys like Bill Hicks who hated "selling out" but same with Strum i'm not sure if I could turn down some of the offers.
Post by questionablesanity on Aug 30, 2009 13:16:32 GMT -5
I agree with Strum. I've never gotten the whole idea of "selling out". I'd do the same thing. I'd make as much money as I was offered to provide for my family after I leave this life. I think we'd all be amazed of how many actors, musicians, etc... go overseas and do commercials.
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
Well, there's certainly a difference, in my mind, between someone young and hungry ala Jack White who is simply dealing with life as it comes at him, makin' a dollar off his talent and Icons of counterculture who carried a message from another time, making their millionth dollar at the cost of their own credibility. My short list of disappointments included some of those who have been most vocal with their prescriptions for life. For instance, George Carlin, a hero of mine, disappointed me to say the least, with his MCI commercials. After years of pontificating about "the man", and corporate greed, et al, he just couldn't practice what he preached.
I understand this methodology will leave me "alone with my principles and ideals" in days as "commercial" as these. So be it. My holding of artists in a higher esteem like Neil Young will stand as a tribute to a time when artists were more concerned with the voice they bestowed for making change than how to make alimony on the backs of their fanbase....
Well, there's certainly a difference, in my mind, between someone young and hungry ala Jack White who is simply dealing with life as it comes at him, makin' a dollar off his talent and Icons of counterculture who carried a message from another time, making their millionth dollar at the cost of their own credibility. My short list of disappointments included some of those who have been most vocal with their prescriptions for life. For instance, George Carlin, a hero of mine, disappointed me to say the least, with his MCI commercials. After years of pontificating about "the man", and corporate greed, et al, he just couldn't practice what he preached.
I understand this methodology will leave me "alone with my principles and ideals" in days as "commercial" as these. So be it. My holding of artists in a higher esteem like Neil Young will stand as a tribute to a time when artists were more concerned with the voice they bestowed for making change than how to make alimony on the backs of their fanbase....
Perfect! I couldn't have said it any better than that. +1!
Last Edit: Aug 31, 2009 12:19:08 GMT -5 by gatheringking - Back to Top
Well, there's certainly a difference, in my mind, between someone young and hungry ala Jack White who is simply dealing with life as it comes at him, makin' a dollar off his talent and Icons of counterculture who carried a message from another time, making their millionth dollar at the cost of their own credibility. My short list of disappointments included some of those who have been most vocal with their prescriptions for life. For instance, George Carlin, a hero of mine, disappointed me to say the least, with his MCI commercials. After years of pontificating about "the man", and corporate greed, et al, he just couldn't practice what he preached.
I understand this methodology will leave me "alone with my principles and ideals" in days as "commercial" as these. So be it. My holding of artists in a higher esteem like Neil Young will stand as a tribute to a time when artists were more concerned with the voice they bestowed for making change than how to make alimony on the backs of their fanbase....
Perfect! I couldn't have said it any better than that. +1!
Well, there's certainly a difference, in my mind, between someone young and hungry ala Jack White who is simply dealing with life as it comes at him, makin' a dollar off his talent and Icons of counterculture who carried a message from another time, making their millionth dollar at the cost of their own credibility. My short list of disappointments included some of those who have been most vocal with their prescriptions for life. For instance, George Carlin, a hero of mine, disappointed me to say the least, with his MCI commercials. After years of pontificating about "the man", and corporate greed, et al, he just couldn't practice what he preached.
I feel ya. For sure man. I was just simply posting a video of musician's work in mainstream commercials. I was trying to point out the difference - where one has Jack White doing something creative and unique......art in a way. But the jeans commercial is just taking a popular song from an artist and twisting it to sell pants.
But I totally get where you're coming from about the hypocritical aspect of these artists. I found this interview with Carlin about the "selling out" and maybe it will give another perspective to this whole thing:
O: You mentioned before that you have wide recognition. Like it or not, you're part of mainstream society.
GC: Sure, absolutely. That's one of the interesting and odd things about my own success: It's rooted in a distinctly anti-mainstream point of view and yet, in order for me to project that, I have to put my foot in the stream. I wrote a thing for my web page called "The Big Sellout." A couple of people took issue with my doing a commercial for 10-10-220...
O: I was going to ask you about that.
GC: Yeah, well, that will soon be on the web site in a very complete form. There's an explanation of first of all why I would make that decision—and it's always for money, of course, but why money was important to me at that moment. That's on there. And then, secondarily and more important, an examination of this whole idea of selling out. It's uttered and spat at you as if it were an absolute; you did it or you didn't. And this person at home saying it probably has on a Gucci shirt or a McDonald's hat, and he has a telephone and he might even own a little bit of stock, and he has made some adjustments along the way himself. He doesn't live in the woods and eat bark and make his own clothing out of vines. So no one is really pure. There is a continuum, and it's up to each person to decide what decisions are worth making to accommodate yourself to the system in order to do what you want to do. Even Ted Kaczynski, who hated technology, used a typewriter to type his manifesto. He rode buses to go to the Post Office to use a government agency to deliver his bombs, which were also a form of crude technology. So, who's a sellout? That's what the whole thing is about.
O: Was it simply a matter of money?
GC: I had 20 years of tax struggle, which I've talked about publicly before, and what I did in this thing on the web page is give the history of the development of that back-taxes debt, and how penalties and interest prevent you from chopping it down to size very quickly. It took 20 years. And what happened, the shorthand of it is, my wife died about two and a half years ago. I met a woman and we're very in love, and it's a magnificent experience that's going on between Sally and me. I just didn't want to get into this relationship with any vestige of that tax problem still lingering. I had it down to several hundred thousand dollars—maybe $350,000—and I said, "I need a quick source of unexpected income." And they were offering... I didn't go hunting: MCI had already approached me, and they made a lot of concessions to try to make it consistent with my personal approach to stand-up, and to make me seem less like a pitchman. Anyway, for whatever compromise there was, for my purposes it was a good one, and I think no harm was done to the culture or to myself.
I haven't been able to find the article Carlin wrote called "The Big Sellout" but I would very much like to check it out. Anyway......this doesn't change what he did.....but it gives you more insight into his mind and financial status at the time.
Well, there's certainly a difference, in my mind, between someone young and hungry ala Jack White who is simply dealing with life as it comes at him, makin' a dollar off his talent and Icons of counterculture who carried a message from another time, making their millionth dollar at the cost of their own credibility. My short list of disappointments included some of those who have been most vocal with their prescriptions for life. For instance, George Carlin, a hero of mine, disappointed me to say the least, with his MCI commercials. After years of pontificating about "the man", and corporate greed, et al, he just couldn't practice what he preached.
I understand this methodology will leave me "alone with my principles and ideals" in days as "commercial" as these. So be it. My holding of artists in a higher esteem like Neil Young will stand as a tribute to a time when artists were more concerned with the voice they bestowed for making change than how to make alimony on the backs of their fanbase....
Thanks for the support y'all. ITM hits it right on the head with his juxtaposition of the two videos. That's part of what helped inspire my rant. That, and well, sometimes I'm just a lil ranty. But I had read that Carlin excerpt just after his death, when I first researched the issue in order to defend my bitchin' about him then.
Post by gatheringking on Sept 1, 2009 0:05:08 GMT -5
Musically speaking, I'm really not that into Neil Young. But, say what I will, no old-schooler has done it with more heart, humility, integrity and credibilty than him.
He ain't signing for Pepsi. He ain't singing for Coke. He ain't signing for nobody. It makes him feel like a joke!
A refresher in true ROCK N ROLL:
While art can be made into a commodity, real art is never for sale!
Last Edit: Sept 1, 2009 0:13:14 GMT -5 by gatheringking - Back to Top
Post by itrainmonkeys on Sept 1, 2009 9:13:40 GMT -5
Since we're talking about him.....how do you guys feel about Neil Young selling his songs for mainstream movies like Big Daddy, Shallow Hal, American Beauty, Lords of Dogtown, and television shows like "Entourage" and "Scrubs"?
I'm a HUGE Neil Young fan......would listen to him read the dictionary......but surely him taking money for using his songs in stuff like that could be used as an argument for "Neil Young is a sellout too". I don't think he is.....but I was wondering what your guys take on this was?
I think Neil has said that any vehicle to bring his art to new audiences will be fair game for him to "exploit" so to speak.
On a personal level, I'm totally down with it, be they mainstream OR indy.
And even for new artists doing commercials and whatnot. I just found the most amazing Ben Harper sounding folk singer guy who opened for a Steve Earle performance I saw a couple of weeks ago. I had never heard of Joe Purdy but was blown away by his performance. Turns out he is the guy who sings the "Just can't seem to get it right today...think I'm gonna give up"(what is it ? Kia or something??)song. I'm totally down with a dude like that payin' bills however. Good for him, I thought.
I think Neil has said that any vehicle to bring his art to new audiences will be fair game for him to "exploit" so to speak.
On a personal level, I'm totally down with it, be they mainstream OR indy.
And even for new artists doing commercials and whatnot. I just found the most amazing Ben Harper sounding folk singer guy who opened for a Steve Earle performance I saw a couple of weeks ago. I had never heard of Joe Purdy but was blown away by his performance. Turns out he is the guy who sings the "Just can't seem to get it right today...think I'm gonna give up"(what is it ? Kia or something??)song. I'm totally down with a dude like that payin' bills however. Good for him, I thought.
Yea I agree with that. It reminds me in a way of when Wilco was being called out for being "sell outs" for having their songs appear in VW Commercials, and they plainly said that this isn't the first time it's happened and that it's paying the band and getting their music out there (in these radio-unfriendly times).
Here's a quote:
"As many of you are aware, Volkswagen has recently begun running a series of TV commercials featuring Wilco music. Why? This is a subject we've discussed internally many times over the years regarding movies, TV shows and even the odd advertisement. With the commercial radio airplay route getting more difficult for many bands (including Wilco); we see this as another way to get the music out there. As with most of the above (with the debatable exception of radio) the band gets paid for this. And we feel okay about VWs. Several of us even drive them.
If you're keeping track, this is not the first time Wilco has licensed a song to or even been involved in a commercial -- most recently a TV spot for Telefonica Mobile in Spain used a Wilco song and some years prior Jeff Tweedy appeared in a campaign for Apple Computer. Wilco have licensed hundreds of songs to television shows and films worldwide... from festival-only indie films to major motion pictures and weekly TV shows."
I think sometimes the word "sell out" is thrown around too easily.....but that's also the case with a lot of things ("genius" and "legend" being other terms that come to mind). In certain situations one has to know all the details before they can properly judge something.
Since we're talking about him.....how do you guys feel about Neil Young selling his songs for mainstream movies like Big Daddy, Shallow Hal, American Beauty, Lords of Dogtown, and television shows like "Entourage" and "Scrubs"?
I'm a HUGE Neil Young fan......would listen to him read the dictionary......but surely him taking money for using his songs in stuff like that could be used as an argument for "Neil Young is a sellout too". I don't think he is.....but I was wondering what your guys take on this was?
That's more than fair. Here's my take on it. Personally, I see a huge difference when it comes to a musician licensing their songs for use in a movie as opposed to a commercial. Movies (good, bad, indie, mainstream, whatever) are an unquestionably valid artform. It only makes sense that the makers of films would want to (and need to) incorporate other artforms in their attempts to tell their visual stories of the lifes and the world around them. It would be near imposible to make any movie feel "right" without some recognizable nod to the real world. And, to me (and I believe many others), music is the most honest and effective way to achieve that. It also makes sense that musicians would want to see other artists' interpretations/incorporations of the very songs they originally wrote in an effort to depict and describe and respond to the world around them. I know it's almost a dead medium at this point but, some of the better videos by some of our better bands should be great examples of this. It's a cooperative expansion of the basic artistic vision of both parties that helps create a deeper, more genuine connection with the audience. While money obviously plays a part in such transactions, in instances like these, it's a more straight-forward compensation for use of the work to help further other artistic formats than a flat-out sale of the music just for monetary gain. Selling your blood, sweat & tears to the highest bidder just to sell a product is entirely different to me. Licensing your music to companies for use in product-promoting commercials, reducing them to unbelievably catchy and undeniably regonizable sales jingles is as empty and transparent as can be. A musician can't ever argue any artistic point-of-view or direction or credibilty or whatever when they choose to hock their life's work to companies who are only concerned with selling the latest products to the biggest possible demographic. It's at that point that they cease being viable and become simple pitch-men. Art, for better or worse, is at least somewhat honest and respectable. Selling your self (music, voice, image, whatever) to a massive corporation's newest, hippest ad campaign just makes you a marketing tool....And nothing else. In my opinion, this goes ten-fold for the musicians who have based their careers and built their fanbases on fierce, unrelenting artistic integrity. Fighting "THE MAN" until he's willing to write you a check is completley and totally admirable. Cashing that check just makes you a fraud and a whore. Then he's bought you out....Then you've sold out. Plain and simple.
Last Edit: Sept 2, 2009 2:50:43 GMT -5 by gatheringking - Back to Top
Post by GratefulHippie on Sept 2, 2009 21:37:29 GMT -5
to me, selling out has nothing to do with money, and everything to do with music. has bob dylan changed for the industry? is his music now about things that don't matter anymore? is he singing someone else's stuff?
so what if he's making money on his talents? we don't call athletes who get endorsements "sellouts". we call them all-stars because they're so good at what they do(otherwise they would never get the endorsement).
Except that Shaq, Kobe, Farve, etc never got rich by professing... " I ain't gonna work on Maggie's Farm no more..."
And perhaps that's not the most applicable example, just the one I came up with before coffee ! But rest assured, you can quote the man's lyrics on the topic , one way or another, enough to more than scratch the surface of hypocrisy. Same with Carlin AND Steve Earle. Those are the ones I'm bangin' on. The rest more or less qualify under your reasoning.... I mainly harpin' on Icons of the Counterculture. It'd be kind of like Timmy Leary doing an endorsement for online college.
Post by GratefulHippie on Sept 3, 2009 10:11:02 GMT -5
i still don't understand the hate. would you pass up a multi-million dollar endorsement deal?
EVERYONE IS A HYPOCRITE. we all do things every day that go against what we normally profess. if might not be for millions of dollars, but lots of "hippies" work for the man, drive cars, pay taxes, wear bras. i realize he is a public/legendary figure so he stands out unlike the average joe, but the same principle applies. does that mean we're all sellouts? he's not endorsing apple or blackberry(a la U2). he's a voice for a GPS system. who cares?
i still don't understand the hate. would you pass up a multi-million dollar endorsement deal?
I don't see any hate. I see a healthy back and forth conversation about a topic.
EVERYONE IS A HYPOCRITE. we all do things every day that go against what we normally profess. if might not be for millions of dollars, but lots of "hippies" work for the man, drive cars, pay taxes, wear bras. i realize he is a public/legendary figure so he stands out unlike the average joe, but the same principle applies.
People aren't upset about it because he's a public/legendary figure. They are upset because Dylan used to call out others about doing things only for money and now he's making more and more deals for monetary reasons - not artistic.
People aren't upset about it because he's a public/legendary figure. They are upset because Dylan used to call out others about doing things only for money and now he's making more and more deals for monetary reasons - not artistic.
also, if dylan is a sellout, that would make most of us sellouts, too. the hippie counter-culture likes to dog on the man and walmart and big corporations. but we still buy from them. we still work for them. so, if we're sellouts, and we're calling dylan a sellout, then i guess we're just one big ball of hypocrite...thus, making us equal
There is when it seems like you're viewing disagreements and opinions as hate.
re-read my post about everyone being a hypocrite
I read it fine the first time.
also, if dylan is a sellout, that would make most of us sellouts, too. the hippie counter-culture likes to dog on the man and walmart and big corporations. but we still buy from them. we still work for them. so, if we're sellouts, and we're calling dylan a sellout, then i guess we're just one big ball of hypocrite...thus, making us equal
Nobody here is claiming they aren't a "sell out" or hypocrites. We are discussing Bob Dylan, Steve Earle, Neil Young, and other musicians/artists. It seems like you're making this an issue about name-calling when really it's a discussion about artists and what they do with their work.
also, if dylan is a sellout, that would make most of us sellouts, too. the hippie counter-culture likes to dog on the man and walmart and big corporations. but we still buy from them. we still work for them. so, if we're sellouts, and we're calling dylan a sellout, then i guess we're just one big ball of hypocrite...thus, making us equal
Well I do my best to avoid all of these things. And I believe Bobby D has even more ability financially to do so MORE THAN ME. And I have heard him make that money by professing of a way of life other than what he is following now, and excusing it because of personal need(alimony), similar to the way that all you "hippies" still go to wal mart for camping goods.
And you will note upon rereading my posts in this thread that I said ON A SELFISH LEVEL, I would LOVE to have Mr. Dylan tell me where to go ! ;D But I just can't justify purchasing it cuz I'm one of those hippies who believes in practicing what you preach, sacrifice as a good thing, and delayed and/or prolonged gratification as a tool to find the zen in everything. I do my best to fend off the disease of "newbettermore". I quackin' ROCK....
Last Edit: Sept 3, 2009 11:16:52 GMT -5 by gatheringking - Back to Top
Post by GratefulHippie on Sept 3, 2009 12:59:36 GMT -5
ITM...it seems to me you are just trying to pick a fight with me. i know you don't like me much, but there's really no reason to attack my opinion just because of it. i'm sorry you took my remarks so literally, but that wasn't the intention.
i can agree to disagree. bob is still the man, and i don't consider him a sellout.
In my opinion, and I know little of either of you, ITM was simply responding to and clarifying your response which seemed to jump to the conclusion of "hate" and whatnot. I find his responses totally valid, and think you might be taking it a bit personally.
+1!
