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Yea, I only barely knew the song and had been meaning to dig more into Bridgers work but hearing hte lyrics and then reading about how Ryan has gone to a hypnotherapist for his own issues in the past (plus was "in a band when she was born") makes it 100% clear what/who this is about.
She regularly mentions him when she plays it at her shows
Normally something along the lines of "Fuck Ryan Adams"
Interesting. Just learned something. I was trying to go to her show last time she came around NY but couldn't make it work. My cousin saw it though and said she was great. It's so shitty that so many guys, when given a bit of power and fame, will use that to take advantage of others. I'm glad that people are more comfortable in coming forward. It just sucks learning about the real life side of some of your favorite artists.
Yea, I only barely knew the song and had been meaning to dig more into Bridgers work but hearing hte lyrics and then reading about how Ryan has gone to a hypnotherapist for his own issues in the past (plus was "in a band when she was born") makes it 100% clear what/who this is about.
She regularly mentions him when she plays it at her shows
Normally something along the lines of "Fuck Ryan Adams"
Yeah I remember she introduced the song as being about someone who was mean to her when I saw her last November, but I also read an earlier interview where she mentioned having hooked up with Adams 100% consentually, so I didn't think much of it. Shame to hear how things really went down.
Yikes. Dude still has some classics songs but this just destroyed any interest I have in listening to and supporting future projects.
Also (and please don't read this as defense of the behavior in any way), I think this an industry-wide problem, not just a Ryan Adams problem
Agreed on all counts. The NYT article feels like an attack on Ryan and doesn’t address how widespread this behavior is. Also that Ryan’s wrong-doing was deemed worthy of an intensive NYT investigation while Sheck Wes will probably take minimal damage for his abuse allegations is pretty disheartening
I really struggle with this. Let me make it clear, fuck Ryan Adams as a person. I have no problem saying that. He did terrible things and he should have to pay for it. But, yea sadly there's a but. I can't imagine never listening to his music ever again. I see the cancel Ryan Adams stuff and I wonder to myself if I am able to do that. I had a similar feeling when Maynard was being accused. I can't imagine never listening to Tool again. How do you all feel about it? If you were a fan can you just cut it off like that?
I really struggle with this. Let me make it clear, fuck Ryan Adams as a person. I have no problem saying that. He did terrible things and he should have to pay for it. But, yea sadly there's a but. I can't imagine never listening to his music ever again. I see the cancel Ryan Adams stuff and I wonder to myself if I am able to do that. I had a similar feeling when Maynard was being accused. I can't imagine never listening to Tool again. How do you all feel about it? If you were a fan can you just cut it off like that?
absolutely. brand new was my favorite band from the time i was in middle school. they got me through high school, college and i continued to follow them into adulthood. all of that creep stuff came out about jesse, and i haven't listened to them since (and honestly even got rid of their records that it took me years to finally own). i'm just not able to separate the person from the music anymore.
I really struggle with this. Let me make it clear, fuck Ryan Adams as a person. I have no problem saying that. He did terrible things and he should have to pay for it. But, yea sadly there's a but. I can't imagine never listening to his music ever again. I see the cancel Ryan Adams stuff and I wonder to myself if I am able to do that. I had a similar feeling when Maynard was being accused. I can't imagine never listening to Tool again. How do you all feel about it? If you were a fan can you just cut it off like that?
absolutely. brand new was my favorite band from the time i was in middle school. they got me through high school, college and i continued to follow them into adulthood. all of that creep stuff came out about jesse, and i haven't listened to them since (and honestly even got rid of their records that it took me years to finally own). i'm just not able to separate the person from the music anymore.
Yea, I guess I am able to separate it. I feel bad about this ability though. I'm definitely not in a hurry to listen to his music right now and we're definitely not going to go see him live now. But I can't say I'll never listen again. I already own moat of the records, so I'm not giving him any support really. I just think one day I'm going to want to hear Cold Roses. I definitely won't be able to listen without thinking about what he did. I'll just be thinking man this guy is a total asshole but damn these songs are good.
I really struggle with this. Let me make it clear, fuck Ryan Adams as a person. I have no problem saying that. He did terrible things and he should have to pay for it. But, yea sadly there's a but. I can't imagine never listening to his music ever again. I see the cancel Ryan Adams stuff and I wonder to myself if I am able to do that. I had a similar feeling when Maynard was being accused. I can't imagine never listening to Tool again. How do you all feel about it? If you were a fan can you just cut it off like that?
absolutely. brand new was my favorite band from the time i was in middle school. they got me through high school, college and i continued to follow them into adulthood. all of that creep stuff came out about jesse, and i haven't listened to them since (and honestly even got rid of their records that it took me years to finally own). i'm just not able to separate the person from the music anymore.
God i feel you on brand new. same on all fronts except i do occasionally listen to them because its just too hard to stop. Wouldn't buy anything from them though but I'll support other members if they start other bands/solo careers.
I really struggle with this. Let me make it clear, fuck Ryan Adams as a person. I have no problem saying that. He did terrible things and he should have to pay for it. But, yea sadly there's a but. I can't imagine never listening to his music ever again. I see the cancel Ryan Adams stuff and I wonder to myself if I am able to do that. I had a similar feeling when Maynard was being accused. I can't imagine never listening to Tool again. How do you all feel about it? If you were a fan can you just cut it off like that?
part of me is a little bit sad. But ryan adams has always kinda had the reputation of being a dipshiz summer's breeze, and these new revelations, to be honest, aren't really that surprising to me. He wrote some great songs about heartbreak and stuff that I thought were really quacking deep and shiz when I was in high school and college. But nowadays Cold Roses was pretty much the only thing I listened to anyway. With music streaming, it is easier than ever to find something else to listen to - especially in the singer-songwriter/alt-country/americana realm. There's enough good music out there not to lament the loss of some shizhead's catalog.
Reading twitter though, I thought it was interesting to see Carl Newman of the New Pornographers say that he is the guy that got a drink thrown in his face in Harder Now that It's Over
I’m going to be brutally honest here. When I was 14, if David Bowie had wanted to deflower me, I would have been more than willing. Would it have been right? Hell no. And at that stage in his career he probably would have preferred my male best friend. But that was the reality back then. Things are changing. And I’m glad.
This is a pretty lazy comparison. Bowie most definitely slept with an underage girl and broke statutory rape laws. And even though that woman is on record saying that she doesn't regret it and wouldn't take it back (and enjoyed sleeping with rockstars) there is no doubt he probably exploited the power dynamic of rock star/young girl. "those were the times" is a trite way to just sort of ignore it or brush it off, and it's quacked up but there was a whole groupie scene built around girls trying to sleep with rock stars. I'm not defending that aspect, or trying to downplay older dude/younger woman creepiness.
But from the NYT article about Ryan Adams, it sounds like he was actively grooming an underage kid - someone looking for a musical role model/mentor, not someone looking to fulfill some rock n roll fantasy conquest. That text comparing himself to quacking R. Kelly - he was aware he was being a quacking creep. I thought the saddest part of that whole story was when it said she hasn't played any gigs since the whole thing went down. He caused her such trauma that she gave up something she loved because of it. And he did that with other women, ostensibly powerful women (Mandy Moore was a sweetheart pop star!) and manipulated and abused them. He was a narcissistic predator.
absolutely. brand new was my favorite band from the time i was in middle school. they got me through high school, college and i continued to follow them into adulthood. all of that creep stuff came out about jesse, and i haven't listened to them since (and honestly even got rid of their records that it took me years to finally own). i'm just not able to separate the person from the music anymore.
Yea, I guess I am able to separate it. I feel bad about this ability though. I'm definitely not in a hurry to listen to his music right now and we're definitely not going to go see him live now. But I can't say I'll never listen again. I already own moat of the records, so I'm not giving him any support really. I just think one day I'm going to want to hear Cold Roses. I definitely won't be able to listen without thinking about what he did. I'll just be thinking man this guy is a total asshole but damn these songs are good.
yeah man it sucks. but I don't think you have to make a decision right in this moment. when we get news like this our brains get so discombobulated, it's hard to reconcile the art we love with the actions of the artists. what I think will happen is over time if you try to listen to and enjoy Ryan's music, you'll slowly stop because of the association. it's like if you love donuts but suddenly every donut maker started putting little pieces of shit on every donut. you can try to make yourself eat the donut, and you'll still get that carby sugary taste, but also that shit taste on your tongue. you might keep trying to eat the donuts but you won't enjoy it as much and eventually you'll move on to other fried doughs. and with ryan you'll replace his music with other artists more deserving of your time.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Feb 14, 2019 13:18:58 GMT -5
It's a weird thing to do but we all have to draw the line somewhere individually. I'm not going to hate someone if they continue listening to his music. I'm also struggling with it. I definitely won't be listening anytime soon (just played Cold Roses over the weekend and it made me want to put on others soon but now not so much).
It's tough because I will still listen to Hendrix or the Beatles even though I know they beat women and had numerous other issues. Most of the classic rock world has terrible stories about young women or crossing lines that we forget about or don't let it bother us.
I remember talking to my younger cousin who is into a lot of music and telling him I'm going to see Childish Gambino soon and his face soured. He then was telling me that he's problematic because of some of his earlier lyrics referencing his asian fetish or making jokes about asian girls and then he brought up how his old sketch comedy group had a skit (that I was well aware of since I've been a fan of Derrick Comedy longer than Childish Gambino has been releasing music) called "Bro Rape" that I guess rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
I understand that those specific things make him uncomfortable but for me I was able to rationalize it to myself. I still listen to his stuff.
Obviously, some old lyrics and an old comedy bit are nowhere near the same stuff that Ryan Adams is accused of but it does always make me think about where we draw the lines. This one's going to be tough as it is a favorite of mine but I know I won't be playing his tunes in the near future at least.
It's a weird thing to do but we all have to draw the line somewhere individually. I'm not going to hate someone if they continue listening to his music. I'm also struggling with it. I definitely won't be listening anytime soon (just played Cold Roses over the weekend and it made me want to put on others soon but now not so much).
It's tough because I will still listen to Hendrix or the Beatles even though I know they beat women and had numerous other issues. Most of the classic rock world has terrible stories about young women or crossing lines that we forget about or don't let it bother us.
I remember talking to my younger cousin who is into a lot of music and telling him I'm going to see Childish Gambino soon and his face soured. He then was telling me that he's problematic because of some of his earlier lyrics referencing his asian fetish or making jokes about asian girls and then he brought up how his old sketch comedy group had a skit (that I was well aware of since I've been a fan of Derrick Comedy longer than Childish Gambino has been releasing music) called "Bro Rape" that I guess rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
I understand that those specific things make him uncomfortable but for me I was able to rationalize it to myself. I still listen to his stuff.
Obviously, some old lyrics and an old comedy bit are nowhere near the same stuff that Ryan Adams is accused of but it does always make me think about where we draw the lines. This one's going to be tough as it is a favorite of mine but I know I won't be playing his tunes in the near future at least.
I think the Gambino stuff is pretty ridiculous. If you really have a problem with those lyrics you should probably avoid rap music all together. Tyler, Earl, Frank Ocean, and Vince Staples all were in songs that were literally about serial killers and rape. None of them are making music like that anymore, so why is this even a thing? If you think some old Childish Gambino lyrics are problematic God forbid you ever listen to some death metal or black metal.
This is a pretty lazy comparison. Bowie most definitely slept with an underage girl and broke statutory rape laws. And even though that woman is on record saying that she doesn't regret it and wouldn't take it back (and enjoyed sleeping with rockstars) there is no doubt he probably exploited the power dynamic of rock star/young girl. "those were the times" is a trite way to just sort of ignore it or brush it off, and it's quacked up but there was a whole groupie scene built around girls trying to sleep with rock stars. I'm not defending that aspect, or trying to downplay older dude/younger woman creepiness.
But from the NYT article about Ryan Adams, it sounds like he was actively grooming an underage kid - someone looking for a musical role model/mentor, not someone looking to fulfill some rock n roll fantasy conquest. That text comparing himself to quacking R. Kelly - he was aware he was being a quacking creep. I thought the saddest part of that whole story was when it said she hasn't played any gigs since the whole thing went down. He caused her such trauma that she gave up something she loved because of it. And he did that with other women, ostensibly powerful women (Mandy Moore was a sweetheart pop star!) and manipulated and abused them. He was a narcissistic predator.
Just because the girl is okay with it now and she was going after a different lifestyle doesn’t really change much imo. David Bowie had sex with a girl who was unable to consent and that’s all we should be focusing on. Ryan Adams was worse, but they’re both bad. I’m not gonna judge anyone for still listening to him or giving up completely.
On Ryan Adams though, personally I was never a big fan so I'm not really affected. But knowing this about him will probably keep me away for a while.
However I was a huge fan of Brand New. I still haven't listened to them much (especially their first two albums) because it's hard not to think about the things that might have actually inspired those songs. But there are other songs I'll go back to every few months because they mean a lot to me. They're not making money off me listening to their music on YouTube and even if I do stream it, they're only making like 0.01 cent. But I think these things are mostly personal decisions. If you still go to a R.Kelly concert, then yeah that's objectively pretty shitty. But whether or not you want to listen to a song by someone who did something awful is up to you and how it makes you feel.
Last Edit: Feb 14, 2019 14:28:04 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
On Ryan Adams though, personally I was never a big fan so I'm not really affected. But knowing this about him will probably keep me away for a while.
However I was a huge fan of Brand New. I still haven't listened to them much (especially their first two albums) because it's hard not to think about the things that might have actually inspired those songs. But there are other songs I'll go back to every few months because they mean a lot to me. They're not making money off me listening to their music on YouTube and even if I do stream they're only making like 0.01 cent. But I think these things are mostly personal decisions. If you still go to a R.Kelly concert, then yeah that's objectively pretty shitty. But whether or not you want to listen to a song by someone who did something awful is up to you and how it makes you feel.
This is important. Engaging with someone's art is not the same as financially endorsing them.
But artists do make money when you play their music on YouTube.
On Ryan Adams though, personally I was never a big fan so I'm not really affected. But knowing this about him will probably keep me away for a while.
However I was a huge fan of Brand New. I still haven't listened to them much (especially their first two albums) because it's hard not to think about the things that might have actually inspired those songs. But there are other songs I'll go back to every few months because they mean a lot to me. They're not making money off me listening to their music on YouTube and even if I do stream they're only making like 0.01 cent. But I think these things are mostly personal decisions. If you still go to a R.Kelly concert, then yeah that's objectively pretty shitty. But whether or not you want to listen to a song by someone who did something awful is up to you and how it makes you feel.
This is important. Engaging with someone's art is not the same as financially endorsing them.
But artists do make money when you play their music on YouTube.
A lot of their music is uploaded by random accounts, but I guess they could still be making money from them?
Post by piggy pablo on Feb 14, 2019 15:46:25 GMT -5
They slapped 'em on you Where that bracelet used to be You know, the one I bought in Phoenix Where they sell old jewelry Well, I was trying to make you angry But I didn't feed you to the cops When I threw that drink in that guy's face It was just to piss you off 'Cause honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off Honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, free with a history You're free You're free, free with a history, oh I heard your wrists got bruised Must've felt just like old times I wish you would've grabbed the gun And shot me 'cause I died And I'm nothing now without you Yeah, I'm less than nothing now I'm the one between the bars And lost forever now 'Cause honey it's over It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off It's over now| It's harder now that it's over Harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, you're free, free with a history You're free You're free, you're free, free with a history, oh I'm sorry I'm sorry Honey, I'm sorry
They slapped 'em on you Where that bracelet used to be You know, the one I bought in Phoenix Where they sell old jewelry Well, I was trying to make you angry But I didn't feed you to the cops When I threw that drink in that guy's face It was just to piss you off 'Cause honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off Honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, free with a history You're free You're free, free with a history, oh I heard your wrists got bruised Must've felt just like old times I wish you would've grabbed the gun And shot me 'cause I died And I'm nothing now without you Yeah, I'm less than nothing now I'm the one between the bars And lost forever now 'Cause honey it's over It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off It's over now| It's harder now that it's over Harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, you're free, free with a history You're free You're free, you're free, free with a history, oh I'm sorry I'm sorry Honey, I'm sorry
That moment when you find out one of your favorite songs is about something awful. Well, fml.
They slapped 'em on you Where that bracelet used to be You know, the one I bought in Phoenix Where they sell old jewelry Well, I was trying to make you angry But I didn't feed you to the cops When I threw that drink in that guy's face It was just to piss you off 'Cause honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off Honey, it's over now It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, free with a history You're free You're free, free with a history, oh I heard your wrists got bruised Must've felt just like old times I wish you would've grabbed the gun And shot me 'cause I died And I'm nothing now without you Yeah, I'm less than nothing now I'm the one between the bars And lost forever now 'Cause honey it's over It's harder now that it's over It's harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off It's over now| It's harder now that it's over Harder now that it's over Now that the cuffs are off And you're free You're free, you're free, free with a history You're free You're free, you're free, free with a history, oh I'm sorry I'm sorry Honey, I'm sorry
That moment when you find out one of your favorite songs is about something awful. Well, fml.
I know right. Can we keep our songs incredibly vague please?
Post by itrainmonkeys on Feb 14, 2019 16:24:52 GMT -5
Yea there's a whole lot of women who he worked with or championed at one point that people are pointing out just kind of abruptly ended. Saw someone even bringing up a video of him recording with Taylor Swift (before the 1989 cover, while still married to Mandy Moore) and saying they got the vibe that the two were hooking up.
At this point it wouldn't be surprising if more came forward with stories. I'm seeing lots of people with their own stories pop up mostly with his asshole behavior but some about him hitting on them or associates of theirs in sleazy ways. Sounds like he's pretty full of himself too.