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Post by craniusmaximus on Mar 10, 2010 10:59:59 GMT -5
For those folks planning to use the Bonnaroo Payment Plan this year to help pay for the nearly $300 tickets, please take 5 or 10 minutes to read through this:
Below is the "fine print" that is included within the Payment Plan section of the Bonnaroo website (that includes a very unfair and likely devastating outcome for some potential "payment planners"), as well as my ranting, preemptive email to the Bonnaroo organizers protesting such a practice.
Please feel free to respond with your thoughts, opinions, critiques about both this "fine print" as well as my actions. Thanks!
Here is the "fine print":
"IMPORTANT: If, for any reason, any of your payments are declined, in whole or in part, then all of the following will apply: (i) your order and your tickets will be cancelled (ii) any payment received as of that date will be kept by Bonnaroo as partial offset for your default, (iii) you will still owe the balance of the full amount due for each ticket and you authorize Musictoday and Bonnaroo to charge your credit card for any balance due, (iv) Musictoday and Bonnaroo will be entitled to pursue all of their legal and equitable remedies to recover the full payment from you, and (v) you agree to pay all costs of collection incurred by Musictoday or Bonnaroo, including legal fees, that they may incur in collecting the balance of each ticket price. Payment plan tickets are subject to all of the other terms of the ticketing agreement."
My email to the Bonnaroo organizers:
Dear Bonnaroo Info Folks,
What's the deal with this disclaimer at the bottom of the payment plan section? I have been defending Bonnaroo for years against critics who say that Bonnaroo "sold out" and/or that Bonnaroo is "too commercial." This sort of callous, arguably greedy, and certainly "commercial" disclaimer is 180% shift from where I would hope Bonnaroo still is...
Clearly, the payment plan is a helpful tool to enable people, who have a hard time purchasing the ticket outright, to attend the festival, but it's not like anyone is doing these people a "favor". There is a charge associated with the payment plan (albeit a relatively insignificant one) and apparently a quite extreme risk potential given that you can make you first 4 payments (totaling $240 of the $290 ticket price) and have your last payment be disrupted do to myriad potential complications, only to find out that not only are you NOT going to get your ticket, and not only are you going to lose the $240 you already paid, but to add insult to the worst type of injury, you are still going to owe money towards the ticket that you are not going to receive.
This is coming from the standpoint of what is the "right" thing to do and not even factoring in the legal ramifications. I understand that once you enter into a contract such as this and "default", you lose your claim on nearly everything; however, this is assuming that Bonnaroo suffers a loss from such a default. In this case, Bonnaroo is actually getting the revenue associated with the ticket AND retaining the ticket (which, no matter what you say to the contrary, WILL be sold again), essentially a "double-up" on Bonnaroo's part. A great profiteering move if I've ever seen one. This type of practice would be dirty even if a bank practiced it, but it would be abominable if you folks actually went through with it.
Imagine this example:
Let's say that Bobby Bonnaroo has been going to Bonnaroo since 2002 and has been a “super-fan”, if you will, of the “Bonnaroo” brand ever since. Rain or shine, conflicts or none, wealth or poverty, Bobby is going to make it happen, no matter what. Let’s say that Bobby was hit hard by this recent DEPRESSION and lost his job, barely staying afloat, but he sticks to his Bonnaroo faithfulness and, based on his current predicament, decides to sign up for a payment plan instead of just paying outright as he has done in previous years.
He signs up for the 5 payment plan and makes his first 4 payments as scheduled of $90, $50, $50, and $50 (totaling $240 paid towards the $290 ticket). Let’s say that Bobby then wakes up one day to some bad luck. On his 1.5 hour long commute (a subway ride and 2 bus transfers) to his job downtown (where he works with disabled children ) he loses his wallet to a pick-pocket.
Considering the fact that, while still a HUGE Bonnaroo fan, Bobby has a life outside of music festivals (including a $1,000/month rent payment, insurance, utility bills, etc, etc), his biggest priority upon realizing that his wallet was stolen is cancelling his card so that he doesn’t lose the little money that he has left.
Little does he know that after he cancels this particular card, in order to receive an almost identical card from the bank, b/c the card number now no longer matches with the card in the Musicnow database, his 5th and final payment of $50 for his Bonnaroo ticket will not go through. He will then find out from the ticket vendor three key facts: (1) He is no longer going to receive the ticket that he was expecting in May; (2) He is not going to receive a refund for the $240 that he had paid towards that ticket; and (3) He still owes Musicnow $50 for a good/service that he is no longer going to receive…
This is how Bobby Bonnaroo is repaid for his years of loyalty to the Bonnaroo music festival…
Something like this is INEVITABLY going to happen. Does the Bonnaroo management/operational team want to have something like this happen under its watch? Frankly, I'm somewhat disgusted that I even have to argue this point to Bonnaroo. Perhaps my friends are right. Perhaps I have been doing the wrong thing by defending Bonnaroo for so long. Perhaps I need to make up for lost time and start getting on the airwaves, the Podcasts, and the internet blogs and speak my mind...
Please say that this was just a temporary mistake that is on its way to being fixed. Please tell me that this was just Musictoday trying to pull a fast one (in which case we should use a different ticket vendor). What's the deal?
If I don't hear back within a few days, I will assume it is true and will proceed accordingly.
Post by funkblastin on Mar 10, 2010 11:51:00 GMT -5
That reminds me, I need to change my credit card number with them since my room mate brought home some sleazy cornheads the other day and one of them decided they liked my walet and stole it.
You're throwing a lot of "ifs" in there. It's MusicToday not Bonnaroo anyway and it's not that different from any other payment plan/credit thing. In your different number thing, I bet a call to MusicToday letting them know this before that final payment would work out. Seriously, not that big a deal. As long as you've got a good head on your shoulder's, you'll make the payment. Hell people spend 50 dollars a month on more shoddy things than a Bonnaroo ticket payment.
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Post by questionablesanity on Mar 10, 2010 12:00:04 GMT -5
It's all about the money, like everything else in the world. But if you're not smart enough to work it out when something unfortunate happens, it'd be your own fault. You should always read the fine print.
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At no point, in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.
Bonnaroo is doing people a favor by allowing people to purchase tickets through a payment plan. If they are going to allow you to pay over time, then you have to play by their rules, plain and simple. You could just put it on your credit card and make monthly payments that way, but you'd be paying 20%+ in interest. So I'd say that the Bonnaroo payment plan is a nice thing for them to provide to prospective attendees.
Your make-believe sob story is downright silly. Bonnaroo doesn't give a shit if someone who was planning on buying a ticket gets mugged, or lost their job or whatever. I mean c'mon. I think you're just angry because you don't understand reality. Contracts like this happen all the time, like mortgages for example. You think if you pay 1/2 your mortgage and then don't pay any more, that they'll let you stay in your house? Bonnaroo is just saying "Hey look, you don't have enough $ to buy a ticket. So what we'll do is let you make payments (Does every other festival do this?). But if you're going to take advantage of this offer you have to pay on time and exactly the way we ask." There's always some reason why someone can't pay a bill.
It's sad that you attempt to vilify Bonnaroo for providing a service to customers that would otherwise not be able to attend. This seems fairly simple and straight forward to me, nothing outrageous.
I don't think the point being made is that it is difficult to make the payments, grozphan. The point is that if for any reason you fail to make one at the exact date and time that was scheduled, for ANY reason, you are out lots of money and a ticket, and maybe even more money that you haven't given to them yet. Yeah you might be able to call them ahead of time, if you are lucky enough to know about it ahead of time, and they might be willing to work something out with you. However it is not impossible that something would happen to someone (identity theft, banking error, unforeseen charges by another entity) the day that a payment was supposed to go through and them getting screwed through no fault of their own. I did see this warning when I signed up for the payment plan, and it did disgust me a bit because it does seem underhanded regardless of the fact that they are still 'helping' those who can't afford a ticket all at once, but I decided to take my chances anyway. Hopefully I won't get screwed by the corporation (who is not technically Bonnaroo, yes).
Post by itrainmonkeys on Mar 10, 2010 12:07:13 GMT -5
Don't worry. You're freaking out too much. They won't take away your ticket.
This was the same as last year. I had a payment plan. After two or three payments I found out that i had to get a new debit card from my bank with a new number and stuff. I worried so much that since they wouldn't be able to take the money out that I would lose my ticket and a lot of money. I simply called up the phone number for music today/bonnaroo tickets and they assured me that they give people a chance to switch the payments or work things out if they miss a payment or something. I ended up switching my payments to my new card and everything was fine. They want you to go to bonnaroo. They are very helpful.
Please get the facts and info before bitching about something.
Post by lordrockinhood on Mar 10, 2010 12:14:07 GMT -5
It really just looks like a standard disclaimer to me, my company uses them all the time. The trick is to word them as if every customer is a potential worst case scenario, in order to protect your own interests.
The tickets themselves say lost or stolen tickets will not be replaced under any circumstances, but then my friend forgot her ticket at home one year and she planned to sadly just buy another one from someone in line. I made her call Music Today from the airport, and they issued her a replacement immediately with no questions asked as soon as we got to Manchester.
If you are above the boards, I guarantee they will work with you before dropping the gavel upon your head. They just need to sound stern enough to cover all their bases so that every deadbeat and his mother doesn't try to play games and pull crap on them.
Eh I had it happen last year on a payment plan ticket I bought. I just called music today, and they let me pay with another card. They have always been pretty reasonable,and I doubt that will change.
What are they supposed to do? That disclaimer sounds pretty standard to me. Plus, it's all worse case scenario, legal mumbo jumbo. I remember people posting last year about having problems with payments going through, and MusicToday was really helpful and gave them every opportunity to get their payments in.
I'm sure it's like most things, if you keep the lines of communication open and convey your problems and/or situations with the big wigs, they will work with you to get it straightened out. But, that is a scary disclaimer, to be honest and naturally in my own opinion.. For someone who may be a first-timer using the payment plan, that would most definitely make me think twice about using that option. I mean, by all legal standpoints, they can do exactly what that says.
However, I'm sure as people have noted, they will work with you to avoid such drastic repercussions. Also, despite the controversy about such a thing, I do feel that it is GOOD that the disclaimer was brought to light, just so prospective user's aren't caught off guard and are aware of the whole package!
Post by unregistered on Mar 10, 2010 13:21:26 GMT -5
OMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!
A company put in a disclaimer to protect itself!!!!
I think you should blame the people in the past that probably skated out halfway through the payment plan, caused charge-back fees to the company, and resulted in the organizers losing money than blame the company itself.
I hope it is not a news flash to you that people are not starting companies to help you get consumer products or entertainment for free. They are not willing to lose money to help you. Get it through your free-loading "craniusmaximus" now and it will save you a lot of future heartbreak when you find out other companies are actually trying to make a profit and not out to serve you at any cost themselves.
Also, despite the controversy about such a thing, I do feel that it is GOOD that the disclaimer was brought to light, just so prospective user's aren't caught off guard and are aware of the whole package!
It's the fine print. If someone is planning on paying a couple hundred dollars for something and don't read all the details of what they're doing then that's their own fault.
Post by SouthGA_Festival Machine on Mar 10, 2010 17:13:37 GMT -5
It is unfortunate that companies' lawyers make them take these things to the extreme. But this would never get inforced unless someone really screwed up and made no attempt to work it out with the ticket agency.
I'm glad I don't have to deal with all that, since I'm planning to volunteer every year from now on. Of course, I could lose my deposit if I don't fulfill my volunteer duties. But now the Work Exchange Team is running the volunteer program and I've already been in a situation where I had to cancel past the deadline for All Good last year and after explaining the situation (I hit a deer and knocked out a headlight the night I was getting ready to leave), when they contacted me about it, for an explanation, they only charged me the $25 cancellation fee, even though the policy plainly says the entire amount would be forfeited if cancellation occured after a previous date.
last year i did the payment plan, and had my credit card taken from a bar. it was a couple days before a payment was due. i called musictoday and they delayed my payment a week till my new card was available to me. they switched the payments over to that card, no issue.
Post by pondo ROCKS on Mar 11, 2010 5:36:38 GMT -5
Guess I will weigh in as well...
How dare Bonnaroo give people a chance to buy tickets on a payment plan? How dare them put a "disclaimer" so people understand that once they say they are going, they have to purchase the ticket? What gives them the right to want said ticket bought after someone agreed to do so?
Ok...now that common sense is back in play...obviously, MusicToday wants to allow more people to go and also wants to cover their a$$ (literally). No brainer and they will work with you...
Payment Plan warning...only get it if you really wanna go to Bonnaroo...the end.
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Post by boilercr840 on Mar 15, 2010 18:53:21 GMT -5
All that language is there merely to protect the vendor from getting screwed if you don't pay. They are ensuring that if you don't pay the full balance, that you won't be able to claim they were in the wrong. They won't take your ticket unless you are completely negligent on making your payments.
If your payment gets declined, they will probably just contact you and ask you to pay up. They won't send you a ticket until you pay. It's boilerplate language that is there to protect 'Roo.
The only way I can think of those actions being taken is if they send you a ticket and your card is declined after the fact. . . but I doubt they are that stupid.
Also, despite the controversy about such a thing, I do feel that it is GOOD that the disclaimer was brought to light, just so prospective user's aren't caught off guard and are aware of the whole package!
It's the fine print. If someone is planning on paying a couple hundred dollars for something and don't read all the details of what they're doing then that's their own fault.
In the excitement of such a purchase, such as a BONNAROO TICKET, it wouldn't be a surprise if someone overlooked the 'fine print,' no one's trying to rip off Bonnaroo, and Superfly's clearly just watching its back.. I feel posting this is a GOOD THING FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY GET A LITTLE OVEREXCITED COME TIME TO BUY THE TICKET.
Just thought it was kind to look out for fellow music lovers and Bonnaroo goers.
It's the fine print. If someone is planning on paying a couple hundred dollars for something and don't read all the details of what they're doing then that's their own fault.
In the excitement of such a purchase, such as a BONNAROO TICKET, it wouldn't be a surprise if someone overlooked the 'fine print,' no one's trying to rip off Bonnaroo, and Superfly's clearly just watching its back.. I feel posting this is a GOOD THING FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY GET A LITTLE OVEREXCITED COME TIME TO BUY THE TICKET.
Just thought it was kind to look out for fellow music lovers and Bonnaroo goers.
Last year there was a helpful warning posted. This year, craniusmaximus chose to attack Bonnaroo and act all pissed off for something that hasn't even happened yet. Informing people is good. Taking something and turning into something else is different.
Post by Britney's_Fears on Mar 16, 2010 15:21:06 GMT -5
craniusmaximus-
Dude I am in no way attacking you or criticizing what you wrote, you got some legitimate complaints, but this is just par for the course when you borrow money.
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? And how much experience do you have with borrowing money from banks, motor credit, credit cards, etc.?
I've got some experience with it and it is brutal. For instance do you realize that when you mortgage a house for 30 years you actually pay the bank 3 or 4 times what that house is worth just for the privilege of being able to pay that money back over 30 years? That means if the house costs $100,000 you pay the bank a total of $300,000 to $400,000 just to borrow the money, and if at any time you miss your payments for too long they take the house and you get nothing. That's pretty much the same thing MusicToday is doing.
It sucks to borrow money, cause you take it up the @ss, no matter who you borrow from unless it's Mom or your good buddy.
this happen to me. lost my card the other day, closed it. it took all of 2 seconds to get fixed. all i did was call up music today (who handles the ticketing), gave them my receipt # (which was on the confirmation page they "strongly suggest"ed i print out at the end of my initial transaction, and my new card information. I was even able to change the "ship to" since i didn't take into consideration at the time when the tickets will be shiped me and my boyfriend would be in jamaica and (obviously) unable to sign.