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I don't know that I would call it a "fake prom" - seems from that story that two proms were held on the same night. Constance was told about one of them. She attended one of them and the majority of the students went to another one.
It may seem callous of me - but she got a prom. I don't see how she was discriminated against in this instance. She can't force her classmates to attend a prom with her.
And the story does not really provide enough details to form an opinion one way or the other. The other prom may have been a private affair that was invitation only. She can call that discrimiation if she wants but she needs to learn that stuff like that happens all through life.
I can't sue the White House because they have a dinner and I don't get an invite. Greeks on campuses have parties all the time - normally you have to be on a fraternity or sorority to attend those. Should people start suinig them for not including the whole college campus?
I still think this is different it was purposeful, and there were exactly 7 students two of whom were special ed students, and she says she was lied to about the other prom. To me this is a civil rights case still, if everything about this was the same except that she had wanted to bring a black guy for her date the entire world would be up in arms about it. It is not right, it is not fair it is the same crappy discriminatory crap that goes on all over Mississippi, and one of the big reasons I never looked back after I moved from Oxford.
The schools behavior was still retaliatory, and discriminatory I just wish more of the kids would have had the guts to stand up and do what was right. I do not think anyone on here knew me in High School, but I would have gone to the smaller prom, told her where the real one was, and generally just caused so much trouble that the whole thing would not have been worth it. Those that know me now, know exactly how trouble I can cause, and just how stubborn I am, and I was at least ten times worse in High School.
I don't know that I would call it a "fake prom" - seems from that story that two proms were held on the same night. Constance was told about one of them. She attended one of them and the majority of the students went to another one.
It may seem callous of me - but she got a prom. I don't see how she was discriminated against in this instance. She can't force her classmates to attend a prom with her.
And the story does not really provide enough details to form an opinion one way or the other. The other prom may have been a private affair that was invitation only. She can call that discrimiation if she wants but she needs to learn that stuff like that happens all through life.
I can't sue the White House because they have a dinner and I don't get an invite. Greeks on campuses have parties all the time - normally you have to be on a fraternity or sorority to attend those. Should people start suinig them for not including the whole college campus?
I disagree. Even if this was held with private funding, everyone knows prom is a school function. They just threw in the "private" crap to mask segregation in the school. If you look a little closer, you'll see that it wasn't just her. They sent the disabled students to the separate party, too, while all the acceptable teens went to the real deal. Throw this back to the sixties, and exchange race for sexuality and general "difference", and it's pretty obviously a social "injustice" (for lack of a better term). My only hope is that stories like this that get so much attention will put a little oomph in the civil movement.
Post by lordrockinhood on Apr 6, 2010 12:22:08 GMT -5
This whole thing was mishandled from the start. They should have just let her go to the prom, voted her Prom Queen, and then dumped a bucket of pigs blood over her head.
I don't know that I would call it a "fake prom" - seems from that story that two proms were held on the same night. Constance was told about one of them. She attended one of them and the majority of the students went to another one.
It may seem callous of me - but she got a prom. I don't see how she was discriminated against in this instance. She can't force her classmates to attend a prom with her.
And the story does not really provide enough details to form an opinion one way or the other. The other prom may have been a private affair that was invitation only. She can call that discrimiation if she wants but she needs to learn that stuff like that happens all through life.
I can't sue the White House because they have a dinner and I don't get an invite. Greeks on campuses have parties all the time - normally you have to be on a fraternity or sorority to attend those. Should people start suinig them for not including the whole college campus?
I disagree. Even if this was held with private funding, everyone knows prom is a school function. They just threw in the "private" crap to mask segregation in the school. If you look a little closer, you'll see that it wasn't just her. They sent the disabled students to the separate party, too, while all the acceptable teens went to the real deal. Throw this back to the sixties, and exchange race for sexuality and general "difference", and it's pretty obviously a social "injustice" (for lack of a better term). My only hope is that stories like this that get so much attention will put a little oomph in the civil movement.
Prom may be a "school function" generally but - down here - from what I know of it - having a teenager in high school - it is not a "school sponsored" function.
I am not sure about Itawamba because it is in North Mississippi and can only speak for what I experience first hand as a parent of a teenager in Mississippi but the prom is sponsored by the parents and the Junior class and is held off campus. It is regulated by rules put in place by the school district but is not paid for by the school district.
That being said:
Jess - while I can't say that i would have been a trouble make like you - I can say that I know now that my daughter would be like you and that I would be standing behind her and supporting her. She would be the type to do exactly what you said in your post.
I really don't have an issue with Constance. I just know what Mississippi is like and I know that some things are never going to change. And if they do change, it is not going to be because of a lawsuit and the media - all this is going to do is make the staunch bible thumping conservatives dig their heels in deeper. I predict that next year - Itawamba schools will not have a Prom scheduled of ANY kind due to the flap that this years Prom has created.
IF there is any kind of Prom at all, it is be private, invitation only and there will likely be more than one which will divide the school even further. The jocks/popular kids will have their own and the rest of the school will have one.
Post by billypilgrim on Apr 6, 2010 14:10:17 GMT -5
I can't speak to how people think in Mississippi, but I disagree that some things are never going to change. The law is going to change. It will be a gradual process, but these things build up a certain momentum. I have no doubt that there will be laws prohibiting this type of discrimination. There will still be prejudice, of course. That won't change. But more and more people will realize that homophobia, like racism, is based on fear and ignorance. And once gays have equal rights regarding marriage, education, jobs, etc., people are going to see that they really aren't so scary.
Prom may be a "school function" generally but - down here - from what I know of it - having a teenager in high school - it is not a "school sponsored" function.
I am not sure about Itawamba because it is in North Mississippi and can only speak for what I experience first hand as a parent of a teenager in Mississippi but the prom is sponsored by the parents and the Junior class and is held off campus. It is regulated by rules put in place by the school district but is not paid for by the school district.
That being said:
Jess - while I can't say that i would have been a trouble make like you - I can say that I know now that my daughter would be like you and that I would be standing behind her and supporting her. She would be the type to do exactly what you said in your post.
I really don't have an issue with Constance. I just know what Mississippi is like and I know that some things are never going to change. And if they do change, it is not going to be because of a lawsuit and the media - all this is going to do is make the staunch bible thumping conservatives dig their heels in deeper. I predict that next year - Itawamba schools will not have a Prom scheduled of ANY kind due to the flap that this years Prom has created.
IF there is any kind of Prom at all, it is be private, invitation only and there will likely be more than one which will divide the school even further. The jocks/popular kids will have their own and the rest of the school will have one.
Sounds like your daughter agree on the premise that all evil and intolerance needs to win is the inaction of good people. I am glad you are backing her up my mom always did.
I lived in Mississippi, and have several family members who still live there. The only way civil rights was implemented in Mississippi was by dragging the people kicking and screaming into step with the rest of the country. It was not perfect, and left some hard feelings to this day, but by god it was done.
The whole choosing not to have a prom, or to have invite only sponsored proms did not fly in federal court in the 70,s, and I doubt it will today either. I bet with all this attention they will have changed their policy by next year.
The schools behavior was still retaliatory, and discriminatory I just wish more of the kids would have had the guts to stand up and do what was right. I do not think anyone on here knew me in High School, but I would have gone to the smaller prom, told her where the real one was, and generally just caused so much trouble that the whole thing would not have been worth it. Those that know me now, know exactly how trouble I can cause, and just how stubborn I am, and I was at least ten times worse in High School.
This is what amazes me. Basically none of the kids found this wrong enough to stand against it. That is a frightening thought, considering the children are our future. That the children are our future is an increasingly frightening thought for other reasons as well.
The schools behavior was still retaliatory, and discriminatory I just wish more of the kids would have had the guts to stand up and do what was right. I do not think anyone on here knew me in High School, but I would have gone to the smaller prom, told her where the real one was, and generally just caused so much trouble that the whole thing would not have been worth it. Those that know me now, know exactly how trouble I can cause, and just how stubborn I am, and I was at least ten times worse in High School.
This is what amazes me. Basically none of the kids found this wrong enough to stand against it. That is a frightening thought, considering the children are our future. That the children are our future is an increasingly frightening thought for other reasons as well.
Too many kids that age haven't learned to think for themselves. They simply repeat their parents' values. Hopefully, most of them will go off to college or something else and learn a little about themselves. I know I was a waaaaay different person at 22 than at 17.
I don't know how genuine the following comment on this story can be, but if she's really a student, this should tell you something about the area and the attitudes of the students:
begleg10: "**Open Minded Readers Only** I am a senior at IAHS, and I’ve known Constance for the last 6 years. Please hear our side of the story before you decide on our fate. The party we had in Evergreen (the county neighborhood I live in) is 30 mins away from the school. we rented out the community center, hired vendors, decorated, and our parents ran the security/chaperone staff- but it wasn’t prom. Prom was at the country club where constance and 7 other students were. The reason the senior class boycotted the actual prom was not because we hate gays. We wanted a drama-free gathering to celebrate 3 great years and 1 lousy one together, and we wanted to lay low. We also wanted to do it without the main cause of the lousy. What people are failing to realize is that much of the fault of this whole stink lies with Constance, not her mistreatment by the school district, but her crazy-reckless need for attention. It sounds mean and horrible and like we planned it all specifically to embarrass Constance, but we didn’t. We let her have her prom with her girlfriend and her tuxedo and we went to party it up in the “boondocks” not because we wanted her rights violated, but so we could salvage what has turned into a total fiasco. As a whole we didn’t support her decision to throw the district under the bus, or her insinuations that we’re all just a bunch ‘a hicks driving around in beater pick up trucks spitting tobacco and burning crosses. IAHS is one of the top schools in the state and I’m proud of that, and I’m proud that we took a stand and just said you know what? forget it, we have just as much right as you do to have a party for ourselves. So we did, and now we’re getting flack because poor Connie’s ego got a bit of bruising. She’s playing the lesbian card to prove she ALWAYS gets what she wants. This time, we didn’t just let her. Take it as you will, because I’m sure it sounds like we faked her out, but understand this- the decision NOT to attend prom had nothing to do with the school or with Constance’s sexual preferences; it had everything to do with proving we weren’t going to let her and the ACLU steamroll us into doing what Constance wanted. We flexed the muscle of the majority and we’ll suffer the consequences."
Sometimes I like to jump all over things just to make a point. Sometimes though I don't want to be in a place where people don't want me to be or won't be nice to me. I'm not sure how I would have felt if I were her. I didn't get to go to my prom for two reasons: My hair was too long About 11 of us were flipping the bird in the big school pic for the yearbook. ...cr*****
You know I really do not think she got involved to this to make a quick buck. Since it has happened, and she will never have another chance at a senior prom our court system is set up to provide monetary compensation for damages inflicted. If the school district gets hurt in the pocketbook maybe they will think twice before pulling these kinds of shenanigans next time.
I don't think the school district will get hurt in the pocket book tho Jess. Fact is - she has gotten a lot out of this already. She has gotten trips and publicity appearances - she was on Ellen - not sure what some of the comments that were made were about when they talk about $30K she has already gotten from this - she was grand marshall for a parade - AND attended - I think - two other "proms"
Fact is - she cannot force the kids she went to school with to go to prom with her and at this point - it seems that is now what she is suing for - the fact that they held two proms on the same night - told her about one and didn't tell her about the other.
Guess what?? They were not legally obligated to invite her to both - they were not even obligated to invite her to one of them.
They made a choice (the kids, that is) and, as unfortunately and biased and discriminatory as that choice may have been, it was theirs to make - they did not want her and her "date" at their prom - that was their choice - once again - she cannot force them to attend the prom that she was at and have a good time at it
AND - she has been pretty well compensated for her "public humiliation" so far - I have to add - one that she pretty much brought on herself.
In the beginning - I was really on her side about all of this and I see where the school erred but at this point - I'm tired of opening up my local paper every week and there is another front page article about it.
She has now gotten more opportunities than most of the kids she went to school with will ever have - She has flown all over the country, been on national television and now she decides that is all not good enough - that the fight she was fighting in the begiining is not enough - now money has to play into it - she has to be compensated.
Sometimes I get sick of society as a whole and the whole "Let's Sue" mentality that everyone has now
You know I really do not think she got involved to this to make a quick buck. Since it has happened, and she will never have another chance at a senior prom our court system is set up to provide monetary compensation for damages inflicted. If the school district gets hurt in the pocketbook maybe they will think twice before pulling these kinds of shenanigans next time.
I agree. It doesn't sound to me like this girls plan was to get some cash. But everyone knows the school isn't going to do a damn thing unless their pocket book is hurting.
She has now gotten more opportunities than most of the kids she went to school with will ever have - She has flown all over the country, been on national television and now she decides that is all not good enough - that the fight she was fighting in the begiining is not enough - now money has to play into it - she has to be compensated.
I'm glad she is keeping this up. And she's right that it's not enough. It won't be enough until there is legal change. I believe this is about a whole lot more than just some dance. The bigger picture is a civil rights issue, and I hope people keep fighting until there is real change. It's going to take a lot of smaller fights like this before bigger issue is dealt with, so keep 'em coming!
I don't think the school district will get hurt in the pocket book tho Jess. Fact is - she has gotten a lot out of this already. She has gotten trips and publicity appearances - she was on Ellen - not sure what some of the comments that were made were about when they talk about $30K she has already gotten from this - she was grand marshall for a parade - AND attended - I think - two other "proms"
Fact is - she cannot force the kids she went to school with to go to prom with her and at this point - it seems that is now what she is suing for - the fact that they held two proms on the same night - told her about one and didn't tell her about the other.
Guess what?? They were not legally obligated to invite her to both - they were not even obligated to invite her to one of them.
They made a choice (the kids, that is) and, as unfortunately and biased and discriminatory as that choice may have been, it was theirs to make - they did not want her and her "date" at their prom - that was their choice - once again - she cannot force them to attend the prom that she was at and have a good time at it
AND - she has been pretty well compensated for her "public humiliation" so far - I have to add - one that she pretty much brought on herself.
In the beginning - I was really on her side about all of this and I see where the school erred but at this point - I'm tired of opening up my local paper every week and there is another front page article about it.
She has now gotten more opportunities than most of the kids she went to school with will ever have - She has flown all over the country, been on national television and now she decides that is all not good enough - that the fight she was fighting in the begiining is not enough - now money has to play into it - she has to be compensated.
Sometimes I get sick of society as a whole and the whole "Let's Sue" mentality that everyone has now
It is not about what she has gotten due to the generosity and kindness of people. It is about the consequences the school should pay for participating in such discriminatory, and retaliatory behavior. You say she brought it on herself, brought what? She is gay and wanted to attend prom with her girlfriend, sexual identity is not a lifestyle choice it is a state of being. You have lived in the south long enough to know exactly how this all played out Meg, and I am glad they are getting called on it.
I am part of a small business owners group here in Nashville, and we are considering sending a letter to the guidance councilors there saying we will not hire anybody from that graduating class unless they were at the prom she was at. As to it being front page news, well I am glad Mississippi needs this kind of attention. When I worked there in the late 90's jokes about the "token" black secretary, and such were just par for the course. I know it is embarrassing for the state, but you guys have kind of earned it.
Post by ziggyandthemonkeys on Apr 21, 2010 20:18:02 GMT -5
I agree that she probably wasn't thinking money in the beginning, but I'm sure a ton of people have been whispering in her ear to get some money out of them, because it should be pretty easy. She is only a very young adult after all, almost anyone would do the same thing in her situation. I have mixed feelings about suing for damages, but the decision the school made did put her in a position to get further ridiculed and discriminated against.
Post by lordrockinhood on Apr 21, 2010 22:08:37 GMT -5
I think her winning a civil lawsuit for damages against the school would be an enormous landmark in civil rights history for the LGBT community.
I don't see much difference between sending the unwanted kids to a fake prom and telling them which water fountain they are allowed to drink from. The only difference here is that the town conveniently kept the fact that there WERE two water fountains a secret until AFTER all of the "deserving" kids had a chance to use the real one. Was there no RSVP for the fake prom? Did the people running fake prom KNOW there was another one? Really, if only 7 kids bought prom tix, prom would be canceled for THAT reason alone. Instead, what happened is the entire community managed to keep a huge collective secret for the sole purpose of giving one giant
to all those deemed untouchable. I'm sorry, but in this case, the whole "they were private events" excuse is just a pathetic attempt to get away with intolerance. "Private" or not, I guarantee the school's administrators, along with the PTA, knew EXACTLY what was going on. Or at least the ones who could be "trusted." I cringe at the thought of the planning meetings that must have taken place for this. They might as well have all been wearing white.
The school needs to face consequences. Educators and the communities they represent need to know there ARE consequences for discrimination of ANY kind. Otherwise this town and others like it will only see the whole thing as some kind of (perverted) victory. They will have "gotten away with it," and this, or other things like it, will continue to happen again. And again. All over the country.
I think Constance deserves, and should be awarded, the maximum amount of damages allowable by law. This is not some sort of cash grab payday for her. She has become a symbol in what could turn out to be precedent setting benchmark in American history. The school and community has to be punished, and it has to hurt. Unfortunately, money is the only real way this can happen. A substantial penalty might get other institutions to think twice before they decide they have a right to discriminate against minorities of any kind, for any reason.
I do think that Constance should donate whatever she may be awarded in a trial towards future civil rights battles, but that is not my decision to make. Regardless, she is not faking a neck injury here. I can't begin to imagine the amount of courage this whole thing has taken, and for that alone she deserves any and all compensation awarded to her. (And of course, none of this means she is definitely going to win anyway)
Matthew Shepard got tortured and brutally murdered for being gay in 1998. The Matthew Shepard Act got shot down by our government repeatedly for 10 YEARS before it FINALLY got signed into law this past year. So, it took a brutal senseless tragedy plus 10 YEARS before our elected officials could agree that MURDERING someone for NO OTHER REASON than the victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability is an act of despicable HATE ??? How is that still even a question in this day?
Yeah, this country has a LONG way to go, but there is great significance to Constance getting named a Grand Marshal in the largest pride celebration in the world. For the record, she will be standing up there this year, proud and tall, right along side Judy Shepard, Matthew's mother.
Post by pondo ROCKS on Apr 22, 2010 4:05:24 GMT -5
If the whole thing had never been an issue to begin with, we would be bashing Kol instead right now. The bottom line is this: The girl wanted to go to prom, the school dropped the ball, things went all out of whack, nobody wins.
If the school would have just went with it on Prom Night, no trips to The Ellen Show, no spitting tobacco comments and no moral dilemma.
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