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clearly the vast majority of the Wisconsin residents also agree that what walker is doing will help the state
Presumptuous before the recall effort is final
He was voted into office once. They tried a recall a few months back but fell short. By the time they recall him it will be time for a new election. IMO this recall effort is nothing more than unions upset at being kicked to the curb.
This is happening all over America. It's time the unions wake up. The world is moving along just fine without big daddy unions making sure the company isn't doing wrong by the employee
Post by chicagorooer on Dec 1, 2011 13:13:34 GMT -5
AT K dogg. Don't blame sky rocketing fuel prices on the reason AA is bankrupt. every airline has to deal with these costs in their own way. In the end it was the cost of over paid labor that brought them down
They didn't file bankruptcy to get a more favorable price on gas. They filed Bankruptcy to kill the contracts they have in place with Unions. So they can start over and emerge from bankruptcy
On a side note everthing is either republican or democrat with you. You managed to find a way to blame Bush for American airlines going under LOL
you come on the board and rant about the evil republicans. Ever consider you are part of the evil demcrats. Neither party has done jack shit for our nation except increase their parties own strangle hold on america
no change is coming from the dems or republicans. They have to much to loose right now. The real change needs to come from outside of both these parties.
ever consider jumping ship form the evil democrats to a person that really wants to make change???
Walker wasn't up for a recall election a few months ago.
And you seriously want everyone to make three dollars an hour, don't you? You have some huge personal grudge against unions. Why do you not like people?
AT K dogg. Don't blame sky rocketing fuel prices on the reason AA is bankrupt. every airline has to deal with these costs in their own way.
Besides JetBlue and Southwest, AA was the only major airline not to file for bankruptcy in the years after 9/11. "Every airline" dealt with those costs in the same exactly way AA is.
Now you have lawyers and class action lawsuits which helps the little man from getting quacked.
The Walker administration enacted a law which instituted caps on legal fees and pays about 1/4 of the interest on settlements to individuals who initiate lawsuits against corporate entities... but not vice versa. So please, defend your argument a bit more. I'm not buying it just yet.
Laws can be amended. That's the beauty of our voting system.
Also, Lowerdeck, we're not going to 3 dollars an hour. Minimum wage is 5-6 dollars an hour, that is if you're not a waiter/waitress on relying on tips.
He was voted into office once. They tried a recall a few months back but fell short. By the time they recall him it will be time for a new election. IMO this recall effort is nothing more than unions upset at being kicked to the curb.
This is happening all over America. It's time the unions wake up. The world is moving along just fine without big daddy unions making sure the company isn't doing wrong by the employee
This is the first time they have tried to recall him. Also since you brought up American Airlines what is your take on the fact they were asking the Union to cut salary and benefits in 03, which they did while continuing to pay multi million dollar bonuses to executives? From what I have been given to understand that was the driving force behind their refusal to bend much at the table this time.
Last Edit: Dec 1, 2011 17:47:12 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
Post by suspendedzen on Dec 1, 2011 18:01:37 GMT -5
The petitions to recall Walker could not even be circulated until a year after last November's election. Are you confusing the senatorial recalls (which both parties in state did but only one was successful) that took place during the summer? Or is this another palm-trees-in-Wisconsin thing that somebody just made up & you believed?
The Walker administration enacted a law which instituted caps on legal fees and pays about 1/4 of the interest on settlements to individuals who initiate lawsuits against corporate entities... but not vice versa. So please, defend your argument a bit more. I'm not buying it just yet.
Laws can be amended. That's the beauty of our voting system.
Also, Lowerdeck, we're not going to 3 dollars an hour. Minimum wage is 5-6 dollars an hour, that is if you're not a waiter/waitress on relying on tips.
Get a bunch of Walker like Republicans in charge and watch what happens in this country. The rich get richer, while you get to spread your cheeks and lift your sack.
He said he would ask and he did, also CR didn't get banned. That is not so much a threat as a carried out promise. As far as I am concerned he should be banned because he contributes absolutely nothing to the music discussions on here, and has a sole purpose of trolling the two political threads on a music festival message board.
Did you really just break out "It's not a threat, it's a promise?" C'mon, man, is this middle school?
Whether he deserves to be banned (probably) or not, I was just pointing out a bit of BS
I guess it was a bit of a threat I did not mean it like in middle school. However CR made it sound like people were going to hunt him down not get him banned from a music festival message board over political trolling.
When have I ever threatened you or anyone about this?
Possibly the time when you told everyone that if he got enough negative awesome points you would use your pull to get him banned?
I said I would make a formal request for moderators to make a decision about him if he hit a point where his negative karma rating exceeded his number of posts. I was also only responsible for a few dozen of those smites myself. Those other 400 or so are from the rest of you... either because of his participation in this thread, or - as I learned from reading through his last 100 posts at one point to familiarize myself with him - because mine was not the first Inforoo campaign urging users to mass smite him. If the mods have the power to access that information, I am fine if they would like to share my Friday/Monday history in the thread.
He was voted into office once. They tried a recall a few months back but fell short. By the time they recall him it will be time for a new election.
He was voted into office once, this is the only thing you have correct. Gubernatorial (I love that word) terms in this state are four years.
They tried to recall him a few months back? A recall effort against an official cannot be filed until they have served one full year of their term, but an effort can be filed sixty days prior. Scott Walker was elected on November 2nd, 2010 and assumed office January 3rd, 2011. A recall effort against Scott Walker could not have legally began until November 4th, which is not even one month before the time of your writing - let alone many. You are wrong here.
Scott Walker would regularly be up for reelection in November 2014 without the recall effort. The deadline for this recall's signature collection is Friday, January 13th with papers to be submitted on Tuesday, January 17th. (We've got a posthumous assist from MLK Jr. there.) Again, you are wrong.
Don't try to make this a pissing contest over who knows Wisconsin recall laws better, lest you wind up getting a golden shower.
Another photo with myself in it boomeranged its way back to me tonight. This one's from February 28th. It is the longest period between a photo's taking and its finding its way to me. A lot of people are going through their old photos these days, it seems.
Updates Operation Burn Notice Operation Burn Notice is a Facebook page which encourages Walker supporters to collect signatures on petitions and burn them. This is a felony in this state. Earlier this week, page's administrator going by the name "Aaron Burr" (who is involved with a website called evilconservatives.org) was tracked down. When a reporter contacted him, asking whether his name was that of the owner of a prominent advertiser on his site, he neither confirmed nor denied the allegation. When he was asked if his name was indeed Aaron Burr in a follow-up, his response said he wouldn't answer "unless you're willing to come up with some dough. In which case I'll be more than happy to sell out my employer. " Site registration and donations track back to a P.O. Box in Arizona. Another man involved with evilconservatives.net is from Wisconsin seems to match pseudonym used on that and the Operation Burn Notice site. A potential subject for this man's identity has emerged. If true, it is an individual involved with (surprise!) the Waukesha County Republican Party. The individuals responsible for this site are most likely vulnerable to interstate election fraud charges and possibly RICO Act charges. "Aaron Burr" today said he was willing to sell out his employer. This one's going to get interesting - and ugly. (If that wasn't an adequate enough explanation, here is suggested further reading.)
I don't know whether I had yet mentioned it, but there is a $10K reward fund offered by the group One Wisconsin Now for information leading to the conviction of those involved with destroying recall petitions. I do not know whether this is related to Operation Burn Notice, but it is worth noting that it exists.
Capitol Clampdown Scott Walker's Department of Administration has released new, radically restrictive rules it intends to implement with the coming year. Among the changes: There will be no civil recourse for death or injury, damage or property theft, suffered by a Wisconsin citizen in a state building. All state departments, employees and agents will be held "harmless" from any liability resulting from their actions. (I shudder to think what they're thinking here.) "Public areas" within the capitol and surrounding grounds may change at any time without notice. No permits will be granted without receiving, up front, $50 per hour per Capitol Police officer before a permit will be considered granted. (No money = no speech, no petitioning your government for redress of grievances.) Only "spontaneous" events which occur in reaction to a "triggering event" within the previous seven days are exempt from the permit process. A "rally" is defined as four people in one place together. (This one particularly burns me - didn't the Brits try this on us before the American Revolution, inspiring the freedom of association necessary for freedom of speech?) Any costs the Dept. of Administration claims are the result of such activities will also be charged to organizers. (This from the group whose estimate of $7.5 million for capitol damage was 20+ times the actual amount of wear & tear; this is intended to provide disincentive towards hosting events.)
The Solidarity Sing-Along, which has become the longest ongoing labor protest in history in the course of this, is particularly targeted by these ordinances. The group's head has contacted the American Civil Liberties Union for counsel.
Keep It Classy, Walker Fans The most egregious incident which occurred around the state this week took place in Racine. A man in a Lexus squealed his tires, shouted profanities at, and ultimately attempted to back his vehicle into a group of people on public property gathering recall signatures. Fortunately, no one was hurt. One of the volunteers, a retired law enforcement officer, got pictures of the vehicle as it approached. Its license plate was BFG LTD. This was traced (easily) to Bode Financial Group, Limited, of Racine. A man named Tom Bode is associated with Bode Financial Group, Limited. A man named Tom Bode is also the Republican county treasurer in Racine County. Coincidence? Here's where it gets extra-classy: young children were in the back seat of the vehicle which attempted to run over a retired police officer.
By the way CR, this is why people are getting irritated, the amount of money Labor gets has fallen to historic lows. Now I know your inner John Galt says you are just here to exploit those you think you are better than but it is numbers like this that are really causing Americas economic problems.
Post by chicagorooer on Dec 2, 2011 14:56:55 GMT -5
^ The amount of money labor get's is a direct reflection of 2 things
1) A world economy 2) America being flooded with low skilled illegal labor
The democrats Love to have open borders. Allow anybody that wants in get's in. Guess what they need to find a place to work. Since they lack education the next logical stop is the labor force. With millions and millions of people standing by to do the job for less money and our gov't is doing nothing to stop it
Been to a union job site lately? If they are still operating you will find a few groups of union members THEN illegals doing the rest of the work. Dry walling, scrap haul away ect.
It's been the democrats and republicans policy of allowing floods of illegal labor to hit our work force thus lowering wages
^ The amount of money labor get's is a direct reflection of 2 things
1) A world economy 2) America being flooded with low skilled illegal labor
The democrats Love to have open borders. Allow anybody that wants in get's in. Guess what they need to find a place to work. Since they lack education the next logical stop is the labor force. With millions and millions of people standing by to do the job for less money and our gov't is doing nothing to stop it
Been to a union job site lately? If they are still operating you will find a few groups of union members THEN illegals doing the rest of the work. Dry walling, scrap haul away ect.
It's been the democrats and republicans policy of allowing floods of illegal labor to hit our work force thus lowering wages
Bull Hockey what it has to do with is business shipping high tech, Medical, and skilled manufacturing over seas so that they can pay some dude in India eight bucks an hour to read your Xray, or some dude in Malaysia the US equivalent of 2 dollars an hour to make your ipod. The only thing they do not outsource is construction and they would do that if they though they would get away with it.
Also you still have not addressed American Airline Executives getting mufti-million dollar bonuses after 2003 when the Union agreed to cut the working peoples salary by 20%...... Oh yeah Evil Unions LOL......
He was voted into office once. They tried a recall a few months back but fell short. By the time they recall him it will be time for a new election. IMO this recall effort is nothing more than unions upset at being kicked to the curb.
This is happening all over America. It's time the unions wake up. The world is moving along just fine without big daddy unions making sure the company isn't doing wrong by the employee
This is the first time they have tried to recall him. Also since you brought up American Airlines what is your take on the fact they were asking the Union to cut salary and benefits in 03, which they did while continuing to pay multi million dollar bonuses to executives? From what I have been given to understand that was the driving force behind their refusal to bend much at the table this time.
You are correct I was talking about the senatorial recalls BUT it certainly goes hand in hand with recalling walker. They failed this summer and are now trying again.
you need to see adam carolla's youtube rant. If a private business wants to pay it's executives millions it's their right. What gives you the right to tell a private business what they can pay their people?
To somebody poorer you make a shit load of money. So I will take away your internet and phone, you can also walk to work. You make more than me so I want what you have. Is that the attitude?
Once again you are correct. Unions didn't want to bend. Sure they had to bend back in '03 BUT this is 2011. All of AA competition already filed bankruptcy to void the union contracts
Thats is my entire point about unions. They don't create revenue for the company. All they do is interject themselves between mangement and worker and skim the worker. The more the unions fight for the worker the less they complain about paying their union dues.
Then a point comes to where what the union demands will not be good business. So the union threatens a strike or a walkout. They threaten to force companies to file bankruptcy OR pay more to the workers.
It's not up to a union to determine how much an employee should be paid. The company and market will dictate that. Ever wonder why DR's don't get paid $10/hour? Becuase nobody would be a DR. The competitive market will dictate the salary level not unions
^ The amount of money labor get's is a direct reflection of 2 things
1) A world economy 2) America being flooded with low skilled illegal labor
The democrats Love to have open borders. Allow anybody that wants in get's in. Guess what they need to find a place to work. Since they lack education the next logical stop is the labor force. With millions and millions of people standing by to do the job for less money and our gov't is doing nothing to stop it
Been to a union job site lately? If they are still operating you will find a few groups of union members THEN illegals doing the rest of the work. Dry walling, scrap haul away ect.
It's been the democrats and republicans policy of allowing floods of illegal labor to hit our work force thus lowering wages
Bull Hockey what it has to do with is business shipping high tech, Medical, and skilled manufacturing over seas so that they can pay some dude in India eight bucks an hour to read your Xray, or some dude in Malaysia the US equivalent of 2 dollars an hour to make your ipod. The only thing they do not outsource is construction and they would do that if they though they would get away with it.
Also you still have not addressed American Airline Executives getting mufti-million dollar bonuses after 2003 when the Union agreed to cut the working peoples salary by 20%...... Oh yeah Evil Unions LOL......
Once again what gives you the right to dictate how much and who a private legal business hires?
If american's don't like it they don't have to purchase their good or service. last time I checked american's love cheap well made products. We purchased japanese cars. Now look at what happened. many of these jobs are now back in america. You see this happening in the IT field as well. India is getting more educated and the cost for workers are going up OR they come to america and make our job force more educated and capable
It's a world economy. If you think you are going to survive and all the skills you have are installing a car window on an assembly line you are in trouble. In america there is very few reasons to not be well educated and prepared for the modern work force.
GREAT paying labor jobs are dead. Just like the typewriter
Bull Hockey what it has to do with is business shipping high tech, Medical, and skilled manufacturing over seas so that they can pay some dude in India eight bucks an hour to read your Xray, or some dude in Malaysia the US equivalent of 2 dollars an hour to make your ipod. The only thing they do not outsource is construction and they would do that if they though they would get away with it.
Also you still have not addressed American Airline Executives getting mufti-million dollar bonuses after 2003 when the Union agreed to cut the working peoples salary by 20%...... Oh yeah Evil Unions LOL......
Once again what gives you the right to dictate how much and who a private legal business hires?
If american's don't like it they don't have to purchase their good or service. last time I checked american's love cheap well made products. We purchased japanese cars. Now look at what happened. many of these jobs are now back in america. You see this happening in the IT field as well. India is getting more educated and the cost for workers are going up OR they come to america and make our job force more educated and capable
It's a world economy. If you think you are going to survive and all the skills you have are installing a car window on an assembly line you are in trouble. In america there is very few reasons to not be well educated and prepared for the modern work force.
GREAT paying labor jobs are dead. Just like the typewriter
They don't have to be dead and it is the sign of a sick country and economy if they are. I think the average American would rather have a good job than being able to buy a TV for 25$ less. Also while no one has a right to dictate we do have a right to say impose tariffs on companies that want to have the luxury of executives living in this great country while hurting it by outsourcing good jobs, and not paying federal taxes. That would make it cost the same to business outside the country vs inside.
We are all in this boat together Mr Galt, it is a society. Now before you go blow a lot of hot air about jobs leaving the country guess what they won't they still have to sell their stuff to America, they still want their kids to live and be educated here because it is the greatest country on earth. If they want to go move to another country so be it, but lets be fair not many if any would really do it.
Post by chicagorooer on Dec 2, 2011 17:19:50 GMT -5
DR teeth I like that post. It's up to our gov't to pass the laws to put in place tarriffs ect. Our gov't should be leveraging the american consumers buying power. Sure feel free to go over seas to manufacture BUT in the end you are selling your product to american's in order to profit. so tariffs and other suck laws will HELP the american labor force
HOWEVER you can only expect a corporation to act within the current law structure. Currently our laws encourage corporations to open shop abroad
So once again DON'T blame the private business for acting in a lawful profitable manner. it's up to the gov't to ensure the people they represent are being treated fairly. Afterall that's why we elect them to look out for our best interest
I use the bail out as a prime example. Gov't passed laws that bailed out corporations YET didn't do a dam thing to get anything in return for the american people
The problem isn't the corporations it's washington!
DR teeth I like that post. It's up to our gov't to pass the laws to put in place tarriffs ect. Our gov't should be leveraging the american consumers buying power. Sure feel free to go over seas to manufacture BUT in the end you are selling your product to american's in order to profit. so tariffs and other suck laws will HELP the american labor force
HOWEVER you can only expect a corporation to act within the current law structure. Currently our laws encourage corporations to open shop abroad
So once again DON'T blame the private business for acting in a lawful profitable manner. it's up to the gov't to ensure the people they represent are being treated fairly. Afterall that's why we elect them to look out for our best interest
I use the bail out as a prime example. Gov't passed laws that bailed out corporations YET didn't do a dam thing to get anything in return for the american people
The problem isn't the corporations it's washington!
Ok then I blame the Republicans specifically for legislating protective policies for big business, partially because they have a hard on against labor unions and it seriously hurt them.
Also I do blame the corporations for specifically lobbying to get the kind of back door protectionism and wide latitude that they have now. Honestly which party would fight harder for Americans on this issue? I am not saying the democrats are perfect but the difference between good and bad is alot smaller than the difference between bad and worse in my opinion.
Going 5-4 overall, defending all three recalled Wisconsin 14 senators in the process, unseating two incumbents, and earning a majority of the overall vote - in Republican territory, mind you - is not failing. There is a difference between "lost" and "haven't won yet." We haven't won yet.
I know you want to spin it that way for your own purposes, Chicago, but you're wrong.
DR teeth I like that post. It's up to our gov't to pass the laws to put in place tarriffs ect. Our gov't should be leveraging the american consumers buying power. Sure feel free to go over seas to manufacture BUT in the end you are selling your product to american's in order to profit. so tariffs and other suck laws will HELP the american labor force
HOWEVER you can only expect a corporation to act within the current law structure. Currently our laws encourage corporations to open shop abroad
So once again DON'T blame the private business for acting in a lawful profitable manner. it's up to the gov't to ensure the people they represent are being treated fairly. Afterall that's why we elect them to look out for our best interest
I use the bail out as a prime example. Gov't passed laws that bailed out corporations YET didn't do a dam thing to get anything in return for the american people
The problem isn't the corporations it's washington!
Also since as you put it all I can count on corporations to do is protect their bottom line, and try and make the maximum amount of profit without a moral compass at all, then why should we let corporations to spend unlimited money for their "freedom of speech". Since a corporation is unable to make a moral judgement so they should be shut completely out of politics in my opinion.
There was a Walker supporter yesterday who approached myself & a married couple working signatures outside the local Walgreen's. Trucker, big burly mustachioed man who's going to look just like Wilford Brimley in a decade or two, the kind of guy who'd be a perfect fit at the table with Bill Swerske's SuperFans.
He asked why we were doing this. The three of us tried to explain. No matter what was said, he wouldn't shut up about unions, as if this were the only thing this were about. He wouldn't hear anything about open/transparent government, about crony appointments, about the "David Koch" phone call and money in politics, etc. He kept trying to bring national issues into this and kept saying "You can't blame Walker for that." Well, duh... we can't blame Walker for federal matters because he's in charge of a state.
At one point, he was complaining about labor conditions in Taiwan and other places overseas. How conditions are cramped, hot and dirty, wages are low, lack of health coverage... so I stopped and asked him, "Well, if you were one of these workers, what do you think you could to do remedy some of these things?" I suggested a good way around that might be to get everyone who was sick of that treatment to all do something about it at the same time, to ask for sick leave and a cleaner factory and higher wages... you know, form a union.
He gave me that blank stare that I'm becoming familiar with, the one where I have a question lingering that these people have absolutely no clue how to answer.
He started talking about how "the beaners are taking over" this town and also used a certain N-word to describe our president.
Way to keep it classy, Walker supporters.
Chicagorooer, you don't happen to drive a white van with Wisconsin plates, do you?
DR teeth I like that post. It's up to our gov't to pass the laws to put in place tarriffs ect. Our gov't should be leveraging the american consumers buying power. Sure feel free to go over seas to manufacture BUT in the end you are selling your product to american's in order to profit. so tariffs and other suck laws will HELP the american labor force
HOWEVER you can only expect a corporation to act within the current law structure. Currently our laws encourage corporations to open shop abroad
So once again DON'T blame the private business for acting in a lawful profitable manner. it's up to the gov't to ensure the people they represent are being treated fairly. Afterall that's why we elect them to look out for our best interest
I use the bail out as a prime example. Gov't passed laws that bailed out corporations YET didn't do a dam thing to get anything in return for the american people
The problem isn't the corporations it's washington!
Also since as you put it all I can count on corporations to do is protect their bottom line, and try and make the maximum amount of profit without a moral compass at all, then why should we let corporations to spend unlimited money for their "freedom of speech". Since a corporation is unable to make a moral judgement so they should be shut completely out of politics in my opinion.
By this logic then corporations shouldn't be able to donate to charity either?? Since how could they make a moral judgement that they should help a person or not
You seem to paint corporations as evil However they donate billions each year to charity..In addition the ability to incorporate is a huge advantage for middle class people. This allows them to move forward and take risk without losing all their personal savings
If a corporation isn't allowed free speech what about other organizations. Such as unions? church groups? trade groups? Are you suggesting people can't assemble and push forward an agenda they believe in
There was a Walker supporter yesterday who approached myself & a married couple working signatures outside the local Walgreen's. Trucker, big burly mustachioed man who's going to look just like Wilford Brimley in a decade or two, the kind of guy who'd be a perfect fit at the table with Bill Swerske's SuperFans.
He asked why we were doing this. The three of us tried to explain. No matter what was said, he wouldn't shut up about unions, as if this were the only thing this were about. He wouldn't hear anything about open/transparent government, about crony appointments, about the "David Koch" phone call and money in politics, etc. He kept trying to bring national issues into this and kept saying "You can't blame Walker for that." Well, duh... we can't blame Walker for federal matters because he's in charge of a state.
At one point, he was complaining about labor conditions in Taiwan and other places overseas. How conditions are cramped, hot and dirty, wages are low, lack of health coverage... so I stopped and asked him, "Well, if you were one of these workers, what do you think you could to do remedy some of these things?" I suggested a good way around that might be to get everyone who was sick of that treatment to all do something about it at the same time, to ask for sick leave and a cleaner factory and higher wages... you know, form a union.
He gave me that blank stare that I'm becoming familiar with, the one where I have a question lingering that these people have absolutely no clue how to answer.
He started talking about how "the beaners are taking over" this town and also used a certain N-word to describe our president.
Way to keep it classy, Walker supporters.
Chicagorooer, you don't happen to drive a white van with Wisconsin plates, do you?
Once again it appears you have so much more insight into the world. He just stares into space with all your profound arguments LMFAO
In the end the occupy wallstreet crowd can't even get thier message out let alone even understand why they are there
Same can be said for the recall walker people. They have no idea they are simply pawns for big unions
Post by chicagorooer on Dec 5, 2011 16:19:11 GMT -5
So I had a conversation with a public union emplyee who now works in Wisconsin but was in Illinois for years He is so upset that his pension that was promised will no longer be available to the same degree. Also pay more for his halthcare beenfits
When I asked him "how does he expect the state to pay for these programs. The money isn't there". He suddenly became very silent. Something I have see a lot lately. I followed that up with millions in the private sector had their retirement savings squashed and we always had to pay for our healthcare
So i asked again what is your plan for paying for this. He stated "fuck them rich evil republicans" They stole the money. I was promised and guaranteed this pension" poop will burn if I don't get my pension"
WOW so violence and ignorance is the plan to keep a state running was his answer
No wonder walker and many other states like Wisconsin are overhauling how they work
It's really sad. I can't become a teacher in illinois or wisconsin UNLESS I join the union.
This is all about unions and trying to stay relevent in a modern workforce
