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Welcome back Bonz, but I do not find it strange that your presence being requested in the Orgy thread and then you showing up, like it was the quacking Bonzai Bat Signal.
Welcome back Bonz, but I do not find it strange that your presence being requested in the Orgy thread and then you showing up, like it was the quacking Bonzai Bat Signal.
Well said jpbrez, Well said! I believe Church and Religion have good intentions, but if all religions are right, than we are all going to Hell! I do not believe we are all going to Hell, but I do believe something else is out there, something beyond us, beyond all of this. A higher power of some sorts. What it is "IT"? I have not a clue what "IT" is, but Wanee starts next week and SOSMP is like heaven to me, so I am hoping "IT" will bless us with beautiful weather and fun times!
I agree with lots of stuff on here.. I've read the bible, a few times, and many different versions, and that's one of the things that gets me so twisted up i guess. How can there be so many different versions, and all of them be right? I feel like there's no way the "ORIGINAL version" is out there. It's had too many years of change, and editing, and interpretation for it to be the "word of god himself" anymore.
I think too, that so many people are so wrapped up in "you have to go to church to be a christian/believer/etc" but that's so false. It states- very clearly- in the bible that "where 2 or more are gathered in my name, I will be there." so For people to tell me that I have to go to some building, and listen to some dude tell me how to have a relationship with god is complete bull cocky. I'm not religious. I don't believe in "Jesus" or "God", but I do believe that there is something out there.. higher and wiser than myself.
I think People just need something to keep themselves sane, ya know? All of us need something to believe in.. like we have music, or art, or festivals, or food, or Inforoo.. Other people like to sit in a pew for 2+ hours a week, and believe that they'll go to heaven for it. Which is fine- I have nothing against it. Just not for me.
Post by itrainmonkeys on Apr 9, 2012 10:24:14 GMT -5
Haven't been to church in years. My immediate family is just not that religious. I get it but like others have said don't feel a connection. I do go for weddings and funerals but other then that I usually don't attend.
My grandmother was a pastor, and I grew up in a Unitarian church. I find the services calming, I get a very home like feeling there. My belief in God changes daily, so going somewhere where the rules aren't so rigid and strict works for me.
For the most part though, I think religion causes more problems than it solves.
I agree with lots of stuff on here.. I've read the bible, a few times, and many different versions, and that's one of the things that gets me so twisted up i guess. How can there be so many different versions, and all of them be right? I feel like there's no way the "ORIGINAL version" is out there. It's had too many years of change, and editing, and interpretation for it to be the "word of god himself" anymore.
I think too, that so many people are so wrapped up in "you have to go to church to be a christian/believer/etc" but that's so false. It states- very clearly- in the bible that "where 2 or more are gathered in my name, I will be there." so For people to tell me that I have to go to some building, and listen to some dude tell me how to have a relationship with god is complete bull cocky. I'm not religious. I don't believe in "Jesus" or "God", but I do believe that there is something out there.. higher and wiser than myself.
I think People just need something to keep themselves sane, ya know? All of us need something to believe in.. like we have music, or art, or festivals, or food, or Inforoo.. Other people like to sit in a pew for 2+ hours a week, and believe that they'll go to heaven for it. Which is fine- I have nothing against it. Just not for me.
So if I sit on inforoo 2+ hours a day I will go to heaven? Looks like I bought the express pass.
We've sang Radiohead & The Flaming Lips before. Boom.
This sounds like the last church I attended: my first visit, before the service started, they were playing Marvin Gaye & Coldplay. Half of the attendees go to festivals & enjoy corn. In fact, that church is where I met the person who first took me to 'Roo.
The pastor had a ponytail & multiple tats, wore tattered jeans & t-shirts. (He hosted a Super Bowl party where everyone drank beer, smoked & played poker after.) The worship leader played Arcade Fire & other indie artists before meetings. It's rare to meet a church worship leader whose iTunes collection makes you envious. (Jacko, you're probably the other exception!)
The church gives flowers on Mothers' Day to the mom with the most tattoos.
They actually did great work in the community for the homeless, the underprivileged, and abused women.
I like sleeping til noon on Sundays, so I stopped going. But still..that was the only church where I ever felt, "If all churches were like this, churches wouldn't have such a bad rep."
I agree with lots of stuff on here.. I've read the bible, a few times, and many different versions, and that's one of the things that gets me so twisted up i guess. How can there be so many different versions, and all of them be right? I feel like there's no way the "ORIGINAL version" is out there. It's had too many years of change, and editing, and interpretation for it to be the "word of god himself" anymore.
I never got why people take a 1000 year old book like the Bible as literal truth. The people that wrote this book lived in a world with only like 200 million people in it. That people back then were relatively stupid, didn't know really anything about the world, the universe, science, and that only 2500 miles away, other people were worshipping Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu and how ever many other millions of deities.
Since then with the 1000x advancement in knowledge, intellect, history, technology, and general understanding, how people look back that long ago and take a book from way back then to have it all figured out is way beyond me. Looking at you Rickybobby Santoramus.
Post by Dave Maynar on Apr 9, 2012 11:46:58 GMT -5
Not to derail what has been a great discussion so far, but jp's post made me think of this.
"You know before there was Reynolds Wrap, before there was refrigerators, before there was freezers, before there was seasonings, a pork chop might kill ya. That's right, one chop. But times have changed. That's right. Now we got freezers, we got Saran Wraps, we got Reynolds Wraps, now a pork chop is your friend. That's right, if you're starving a pork chop will save your life. Hell, I'll eat a pig's butt if they cook it right." -Chris Rock
I think we had this debate on chat the other night.
To preface, I am a practicing Catholic who makes it to Church about once a month. While I am there, I try to listen and pick up what I can.
To start, I think people are confusing the words ritual, rite, and tradition. A Mass is a set of rites performed in a ritualistic fashion. In the Catholic church, if you look at a mass, very little of it is actually set in stone. There are some readings, set prayers, a profession of faith, and the transmutation, but depending on the time of day, the priest and the parish I go to, mass can go for 10 minutes to 2 hours, and have all types of different flavors. The point is that you gather to celebrate your faith.
In a lot of ways, this is similar to how I view Roo or even just concerts. You gather together to celebrate a certain something. The rituals are different, but there are still rituals involved in all of our concert going experiences. Roo is even more closely linked to a religious experience in my opinion. How many times has it been said on this board that "Person X is going to ruin Roo" or "THIS change has destroyed the experience"? Yet most of us travel back each year and have a great time with our friends and other similarly minded people. This feeling that we cannot really define is why we all waste so much time on this site the other 361 days of the year. Rituals and Rites are powerful things which make them central parts of the defining events in our lives.
If you narrowly define the church as the building where mass takes place, and the central part of faith as the Tradition of Mass, then yes, I would agree that church is weird. If you look at church as the global church, and the desire to live life as a good person, I find nothing weird about it.
I am not a fan of the literal interpretation of the Bible and Mass. I am more interested in the spirit that convey. For some people, they need mass to get them through particular struggles in their life, or to define what is coming for them as they get closer to the end. For others, they just need to know it is their as a moral compass every few years.
I fall somewhere in between, going occasionally for a refresher. Most days when I leave Mass, I feel more positive, and I am more inclined to help others.
Post by Vector Viking on Apr 9, 2012 12:06:26 GMT -5
I'm probably gonna get flamed for what I'm about to say. I might even get a 10% warning or something. Anyway, yes, church is weird. All it boils down to is people needing to have their egos patted like little children. This includes my own religion, tantric buddhism, of which I have studied extensively and am ordained. We don't call it "church", we call it "sangha", and yes, sangha is also weird. Think walking on water is a weird story? How about stapling the sun's shadow to a bar table with a dagger to avoid paying the bartab at sundown? Weird stuff all around. Atheism is weird too. I realize that most atheists are just people who believe that the christian god does not exist. Well, I don't either, nor do I believe in Zeus or Odin or Brahma or Allah or Avalokitesvara, et cetera ad nauseum. I don't even believe that Jesus was an actual person. Considering that he was hanging out with two groups of people who were renowned for writing stuff down for posterity (jews and romans), there isn't actually any evidence of him being any more than a fairy tale. I like reading the stories though, just like how I like reading Tolkien or Harry Potter. They're interesting for the most part and have social value. As strange as all these stories can get, they all have an underlying theme: be good to each other. If you belong to a church that makes you feel like they (and you) are the only ones who are right and everyone else is wrong, you're fucking it up. Go somewhere else. You're just spreading unhappiness and confusing yourself. Stop that. It's stupid. Don't be stupid. You are weird. Yes, you. It's a fact, weirdo. Look around until you see another person. That person is also a weirdo, weirdo. Their mom is a weirdo. YOUR mom is a weirdo. It's okay, mine is too.
Yep. I'll rant for a minute if anyone cares to read! I have come to the belief that "god" exists in the empty spaces, like the space that separates the orbits of electrons around a nucleus. Everything that is not empty space is a manifestation of "god". Church is weird, but some poop is FAR weirder.
I agree with lots of stuff on here.. I've read the bible, a few times, and many different versions, and that's one of the things that gets me so twisted up i guess. How can there be so many different versions, and all of them be right? I feel like there's no way the "ORIGINAL version" is out there. It's had too many years of change, and editing, and interpretation for it to be the "word of god himself" anymore.
I never got why people take a 1000 year old book like the Bible as literal truth. The people that wrote this book lived in a world with only like 200 million people in it. That people back then were relatively stupid, didn't know really anything about the world, the universe, science, and that only 2500 miles away, other people were worshipping Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu and how ever many other millions of deities.
Since then with the 1000x advancement in knowledge, intellect, history, technology, and general understanding, how people look back that long ago and take a book from way back then to have it all figured out is way beyond me. Looking at you Rickybobby Santoramus.
To assume that earlier human beings that were capable of (1) theological, ethical and moral discussions, (2) managing countries filled with subjects and attempt to have relations with others, (3) understanding basic laws of physics and biology, (4) fully aware of their own conscious to be "relativity stupid" is completely and totally stupid in its own right. These people were people. Capable of the same thoughts and actions that you yourself are capable of today. They had nothing else from previous experience, they understood the world as well as they could from personal experience and were able to solve many of lifes problems without anyone showing the way. They were able to create metals, read, write and speak. They were able to create energy from nothing (fire) and understand buoyancy (boats). They were able to analyze the world around them to hunt and grow food. I'm sorry but you must have never been in a sociology, biology or European history class. The fact that they did all of this proves they were very intelligent and very very capable, to the point of eventually ruling the world. You go out with nothing at all and build a quacking steam engine bro.
Proud Athiest, and yes Church is very weird. I think thats all that needs to be said. I think people have wasted time typing out these paragraphs because it all boils down to Church being weird. The mythology of Jesus is weird too. Think about it. In 2000 years from now, is someone from todays time going to be looked at as another savior, or the grandson of the holy spirit? Anyone who would claim this today would be called a what??? . . . . . . A cult leader.
Its all silly. And im not going to be all PC and say i respect people's belief in this silly stuff, because i dont. Ill respect you as a person, but not your silly bedtime story. You were raised this way people, not born this way.
I never got why people take a 1000 year old book like the Bible as literal truth. The people that wrote this book lived in a world with only like 200 million people in it. That people back then were relatively stupid, didn't know really anything about the world, the universe, science, and that only 2500 miles away, other people were worshipping Brahma, Shiva, and Vishnu and how ever many other millions of deities.
Since then with the 1000x advancement in knowledge, intellect, history, technology, and general understanding, how people look back that long ago and take a book from way back then to have it all figured out is way beyond me. Looking at you Rickybobby Santoramus.
To assume that earlier human beings that were capable of (1) theological, ethical and moral discussions, (2) managing countries filled with subjects and attempt to have relations with others, (3) understanding basic laws of physics and biology, (4) fully aware of their own conscious to be "relativity stupid" is completely and totally stupid in its own right.
I guess instead of 'relatively stupid' i should have said 'comparatively stupid'. No, the people of 1 - 100AD weren't neanderthals but, as you said, their understanding of the world around them was basic. They had no idea how big the world was, how populated it was, etc.
My only point is that we have come a LONG way since 100AD, a broad estimate of when the original christian Bible was completed. The people of that era were not 'stupid' per se, but as you suggested, and what I was trying to say- their understanding of the world was very basic compared to what we know now. We (human beings) have since then gone through several different societal constructs, the dark ages, continental conquests, religious Crusades, discovering the 'new world' of the western hemisphere, a renaissance, great church schisms, two world wars, industrial and technological revolutions, etc. and an estimated 35X global population increase of what it was back then. -I just don't get how after 2000 years of how much we have learned about people, societies, different religions, science, technology, people still read the stories of the Bible and say, "yeah that definitely happened." or read the Pentateuch and say "yep this is law. This is how we have to live." I just think after two millenia, people should be able to look at the Bible as interpretive guidelines and fables or stories, not as strict law and history.
2000 years from now will people look at Lord of the Rings and confuse it for history instead of story? (joking of course.)
And FWIW the steam engine was only invented like 200 years ago. Not 2000 years.
I have resisted posting here and may later wish I would have continued resisting. haha but here goes. This is not intended to be an all encompassing thought just a little blurb. (Revised: after typing it out the blurb became a bulge)
Church is weird and something in which I chose to be involved in varying degrees and different times. I agree that Spiritual beliefs (and / Or Church) are learned and also cultural in many cases. The way these beliefs are exercised at sometimes (being generous) are harmful to others and society in general. Then again often they are carried out in a way that is very helpful. My response the OP in this thread is "Yes you are correct" and probably more weird than we can even comprehend. I have seen some very weird things in church probably weirder things than some of my inforoo friends have seen on No No Word experiences. haha
I once received a black eye when some Pentecostal jerking fella kicked me in the eye with his roach killer boots during alter service. That one was not easy to explain at work the next day (so I did not explain).
I once have an Idea (vision, inspiration, or another tag that fits) to inter a hard core inner city environment in Birmingham to bring my (Lilly white) church together with a historical Black church to work with children in the city. This was even weirder than the black eye story, they actually believed in the idea and came together and for two years went into the community together to provide some fun activities for the children. This cumulated with a Block party (Music fest) in which we had rappers and a Mass choir with the two churches singing together.
I attend a Church that I don’t fully identify with, and agree with possibly even less, but I worship a God there who comforts me. The God I worship may be a figment of my imagination because my only attachment is by faith (not knowledge), so I can’t prove it and don’t try but it works for me. Church is weird (very weird) but as for me I have experienced God there and chose not to “through the baby out with the bath water”. That said I am syked about Bonnaroo and hope to meet some of you all there. Please attempt not to stereotype me because there is not a classification weird enough for me. haha
Anyone here know of any snake handling and Clorox drinking churches?
Panama City, FL.
Not so CSB time: Dad was career US Air Force, I was born in the Philippines, came stateside when I was 3 and grew up all over the US. For those that don't know the military tends to move you every couple of years, esp. if your an officer.
His last assignment was Panama City FL, Tyndall AFB. I was 11. We moved there from Phoenix AZ where I was a NORMAL kid for the early 80's. I wore parachute pants, spiky bracelets, bandannas tied around my legs, and a legionnaires hat (the ones with the two flaps that trail down the back of your neck) covered in buttons, and had hair well past my shoulders. I listened to Quite Riot, Twisted Sister, Motley Crue, Kiss and bands like them. And I also tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. A normal kid for that time period.
Moving to Panama City was a massive culture shock. I had never been exposed to southern evangelical Christian fundamentalists before, which that town seemed to be exclusively populated by. Seeming to never have been exposed to any outside culture their kids were very curious about me, and friendly to. They would come by and we'd listen to heavy metal records, read various metal magazines, and dream of going to awesome rock concerts like the ones in the pictures. Until some of their parents (who attended the same church) found out. One of the kids was "busted" by his mom listening to Kiss. The word spread quickly and they forbade their kids from playing with me! Not all of my friends parents were batshit crazy but most of them were. Once while we were playing in a playground one of my friend's moms pulled into the parking lot and got out of her car screaming at her son to get away from me and get in the car. She then, a grown women to an 11yo boy, started yelling at me telling me to keep my devil worship and satanic PORNOGRAPHY away from her family, and accused me of trying to turn these children away from god, before telling me that I would burn in hell. THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
So that church they went to; yeah turns out on occasion they would shake snakes, from what I understand not everyone would do it and it was only done when the preacher believed that the Devil was going to attack them and they needed to show their faith to protect the church community. People going into "Ecstasy" and convulsing on the floor while speaking in tongues was par for the course each sermon.
Yeah really fucking weird and disturbing for a young kid. Never heard about the Clorox thing though.
Anyone here know of any snake handling and Clorox drinking churches?
Panama City, FL.
Not so CSB time: Dad was career US Air Force, I was born in the Philippines, came stateside when I was 3 and grew up all over the US. For those that don't know the military tends to move you every couple of years, esp. if your an officer.
His last assignment was Panama City FL, Tyndall AFB. I was 11. We moved there from Phoenix AZ where I was a NORMAL kid for the early 80's. I wore parachute pants, spiky bracelets, bandannas tied around my legs, and a legionnaires hat (the ones with the two flaps that trail down the back of your neck) covered in buttons, and had hair well past my shoulders. I listened to Quite Riot, Twisted Sister, Motley Crue, Kiss and bands like them. And I also tied an onion to my belt. Which was the style at the time. A normal kid for that time period.
Moving to Panama City was a massive culture shock. I had never been exposed to southern evangelical Christian fundamentalists before, which that town seemed to be exclusively populated by. Seeming to never have been exposed to any outside culture their kids were very curious about me, and friendly to. They would come by and we'd listen to heavy metal records, read various metal magazines, and dream of going to awesome rock concerts like the ones in the pictures. Until some of their parents (who attended the same church) found out. One of the kids was "busted" by his mom listening to Kiss. The word spread quickly and they forbade their kids from playing with me! Not all of my friends parents were batshit crazy but most of them were. Once while we were playing in a playground one of my friend's moms pulled into the parking lot and got out of her car screaming at her son to get away from me and get in the car. She then, a grown women to an 11yo boy, started yelling at me telling me to keep my devil worship and satanic PORNOGRAPHY away from her family, and accused me of trying to turn these children away from god, before telling me that I would burn in hell. THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.
So that church they went to; yeah turns out on occasion they would shake snakes, from what I understand not everyone would do it and it was only done when the preacher believed that the Devil was going to attack them and they needed to show their faith to protect the church community. People going into "Ecstasy" and convulsing on the floor while speaking in tongues was par for the course each sermon.
Yeah really quacking weird and disturbing for a young kid. Never heard about the Clorox thing though.
Panama City tried to kill the Metal. THEY FAILED!!!! HAHAHA! As they were thrown down. To the ground!