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Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 12:30:05 GMT -5
I figured I would ask here because I really do respect everyones opinions here. This place is still the single greatest message board I have found on the internet. I really can't commend the posters and mods in this forums enough on that.
To my point.
I have not been seen around here much at all since Roo '07. Frankly, it just took the wind out of my Bonnaroo sails. For anyone who is a bit confused reading reports of the police presence at Bonnaroo now, there are police. Lots of them.
Last year was supposed to be my ultimate Bonnaroo. Not because of the lineup. The lineup was actually one of the reasons why I left with a bad taste in my mouth. We had an RV and pretty much everything you could possibly think to bring. We were armed to the teeth for our Roo battle. We finally had a few years under our belts and knew the best course of action.
Unfortunately, the police ruined our pristine summer getaway. We didn't receive a single ticket or summons, but had to deal directly with at least 2 dozen police during the week.
We got pulled over about 30 mins away from the festival which yielded nothing more than some severe harrassment. We then proceeded to gather at the Walmart which had been packed at that point. Almost immediately we were ushered to the festival site. We had to have been one of the first thousand to enter the festival because we only waited about 10 minutes to get to the gate.
"Hello, we are the Coffee County Sheriffs Department. WELCOME TO BONNAROO! Do you have any fireworks, firearms or narcotics on you? Please step aside while we search your RV."
We had nothing major inside of the RV, but there were a few odds and ends that had been VERY well concealed. I mean, you had to really rip through our personal belongings to find. Some small things we had on us for the trip. When it was all said and done, they yielded a shot glass full of herbs, 2 acrylic vases and 2 extra bottles of alcohol that we didn't really bother to transfer. One angry fat piggy (pictured in the wonderful mushroom arrest picture) wanted to ticket us for the stuff we had, but his supervisor said "We have bigger fish to fry".
This really didn't bother me so much because we were now inside the festival. We were home, in a safe place, amongst friends.
Just like every other year, upon arrival we decided to stroll down shakedown to see how it was coming along. The changes they made to the layout were not well received by many. The guards told me that I could only walk in 1 direction down the path next to VIP (Old tent only). They also detained everyone who camped in tent only next to centeroo all night. My friends were in there and were not allowed to leave their campsites.
This was all well and good until we got to shakedown street. Nothing had been erected yet and it was vacant. In the distance we saw 2 people on quads coming towards us. As they approached we waived hello only to be stopped by 2 ARMED police officers. Keep in mind, we were inside the festival at this point. This would set the tone for our weeked.
I dismissed many rumors of busts in years past. The bulk of them had been on the surrounding highways, and I had never seen any DTs or uniformed officers inside the festival.
During Bonnaroo 2007 I saw half a dozen busts and an immense amount of K9 units on Bushy Branch Rd. I also saw the police called into Centeroo Saturday evening.
To boot, we got pulled over in almost every state on the way home. At least 2 of the cops told us it was directly related to the increased traffic because of Bonnaroo.
I'll try to wrap this up quickly so I can get some opinions.
I decided Bonnaroo was not for me this year. The lineup is quacking weird as hell, but not something I would turn down. I think this year at Bonnaroo would be fun because it's the weirdest festival lineup North America had ever seen.
Instead I had my sights set on All Points West. I was never a fan of Coachella, but this is close to me (Im in NY) and it sounded like a great festival initially.
I just saw the lineup, and it looks pretty damn good. Radiohead, Rod and Gab, Mr Andrew Bird, The Roots and a few others Im not remembering. I then looked at the rest of their page. $258 tickets, music stops at 11, NO CAMPING ON SITE. F*CK THAT.
That is not a festival to me. I'm cool with paying the money to only see 5-10 bands (pretty much Roo 07), but the rest sucks. I always bashed Coachella because of the noise ordinance they have to deal with. I'm sorry, but I have to say this. The best part of a festival to me is feeling like I can run like Carl Lewis with 10 hits in me. That used to be a regular occurance. Now it's something I confine to festivals. Bonnaroo between 10PM and 5AM is really a sight to be seen.
Finally, to my point. You're all great people. Most of you still hold the passion that I had for Bonnaroo. I really hate making selfish threads about myself, but I need to here. I need you guys to give me reasons to come. I really want to, but I don't want to deal with a police state. Usually situations like this don't get better, they get worse. How do you think Bonnaroo will go over this year? Will there be a shitton of cops? Will there be a flock of metalheads?
Most importantly...... Would we all be able to overcome these things and have a great time?
You're all great people. I trust that if anyone is going to convince me to lead another charge to Bonnaroo, it will be you folks.
Thanks for reading all that. I'd really appreciate any views.
edit: Types of security you will see at Bonnaroo
Staff/Security- Yellow shirts are for staff members. The mounted security are not police. They are not armed and cannot arrest you.
Police- Grey shirts, handguns, mean snarl.
The cops did not search everyone on the way into Bonnaroo, but I heard from the staff that it was something like 1 in 10.
Ohh, and let this be a warning for all of you going this year. Just wait until you get inside the festival.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
I've only been to Bonnaroo one, in 2007. So I don't have a frame of reference for this "running like Carl Lewis with 10 hits in me". But I have been to a number of Dead shows in my day and I felt no more or less opressed by police at Bonnaroo than I did at Grateful Dead shows. I didn't have a single problem with the police. I spoke to them, petted their horses, etc. But no problems. Maybe you just pulled the long straw that year.
My only Bonnaroo was 2007, so I can't draw any comparisons between that and other years, but I can say that I personally was not harrassed once, and I only saw a few mounted officers.
I think this is partially because we arrived to Bonnaroo a bit late (around 10 or 11 on Thursday night). We weren't pulled over once on the way down to Tennessee, and it was myself (20 year old male) and three female (ages 23, 26, 26). We didn't flaunt that we were going to Roo with stickers and whatever, and we were in an Accord.
We were searched very quickly going into the campsite...or actually, more accurately our car was searched. And that was just a quick flashlight sweep and a quick check in the cooler to make sure we had no glass. We didn't have to open the glovebox or bags or anything like that.
I'd imagine that you were the exception, and not the rule. Come to 'roo again, and hope for better luck.
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 12:49:55 GMT -5
fhqwhgads said:
I've only been to Bonnaroo one, in 2007. So I don't have a frame of reference for this "running like Carl Lewis with 10 hits in me". But I have been to a number of Dead shows in my day and I felt no more or less opressed by police at Bonnaroo than I did at Grateful Dead shows. I didn't have a single problem with the police. I spoke to them, petted their horses, etc. But no problems. Maybe you just pulled the long straw that year.
Those aren't the police. That is hired security. All of them are awesome people. I've suspected many of them of indulging in the bonnaroo atmosphere before.
I'm talking about the real police. Distinguishing factors involce a large hangun on the hip.
The cops made random appearances at the gates last year according to the staff that was up there. They hated them. This was the first year that such a thing happened.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
While it seems that there was an increased police presence in '07, I had no problems with them. I must admit, if I had your experience last year, I might be hesitant also.
Maybe it was the RV. Try coming in a regular vehicle again.
All in all I agree with fhqwhgads, seems you just got a bad draw.
Post by plasticpepper on Feb 22, 2008 12:56:26 GMT -5
Well. I don't know how convincing I can be, but I will say something.
Last year was my first Bonnaroo and I absolutely loved it. My friends and I had no issues with the police or security. We didn't get pulled over at all on the way down or back (we're coming from NY too) and our search to get inside was pretty brief. Since I had no real problems and since I don't have experience with previous Bonnaroos to compare to, I have no negative feelings about the police or security. So I probably can't be of much help to assuage yours.
That said...of course we will all have a great time at Bonnaroo! Without knowing you personally I can't say exactly what will appeal to you, but there is so much fun to be had that I feel confident saying Bonnaroo as a whole still will. You need to dance like a crazy person at !!!'s show, you need to enjoy spookymonster's chorizos, you need to witness whatever crazyness Gogol Bordello comes out with, you're definitely going to need some $1 grilled cheese, you need to be able to tell everyone you know that you either saw Metallica live or purposely refused to see them live, you need to jump in the fountain, you need to witness a naked person who will run up to yell something at you and then run away again, and you need to lose your sense of smell and most of your hearing.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 13:11:18 GMT -5
shhhhh said:
Wow...so you broke the rules and didn't get a ticket for it...
and then you saw cops arresting people breaking the law....
oh my god that must have been the worst weekend of your life.
I don't know how much time you spend around here, but your attitude is not the norm. Usually we all check that at the door when we come in.
If you think a bunch of people tripping out on a farm is the biggest problem our country has, then I suggest you move somewhere else. The entire point is that Bonnaroo was NEVER LIKE THIS BEFORE. I don't care about some security and a light police presence, but I don't want to trip over a cop every 10ft. You obviously never heard of Wakarusa '06. Search the board and you'll find posts about people with $10,000 in fines for personal use stuff from last year, and you'll probably find some wonderful articles about the afforementioned Wakarusa 2006.
The county has started using the festival as a cash cow. I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone should be happy to see some kid get his life ruined because he decided to bring an ounce of grass to a festival. Having something like that on your record blows away something like having 2 DWIs. Sound a little off to you? it does to me. If you really believe thats right, then your in the wrong community. I mean, judging by your attitude, you're in the wrong community already.
Check your attitude. Nobody comes here for it.
"Breaking the rules" has always been a very prevelant part of Bonnaroo. It's a perfect example of how people can get along just fine without being heavily policed. At least from a narcotics standpoint. You should probably be more worried about the 50 or so rapes that happen there every year. I know I am. Thats something the mounted security should be on. I even mentioned the numbers from 06 to them last year and they patrolled our area twice as much. They don't care if you're smoking outside your tent, they care if someone is being sexually assaulted. Maybe you should get your priorities in line.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
I too think you probably got the shortest straw. Although, you didn't get busted, so I don't know if we can say that or not. On the other hand, an almost-bust can be just as scary. I think it's a personal choice you have to make. Cops make me pretty paranoid, and if you can't deal with that, maybe you want to try something else...because I don't think they'll be going away any time soon. We had no trouble. Of course, we were VIP so I assume we didn't have have the UCs running around that GA did. The riders came through one night when we were partying, but that was the closest call we had.
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 13:20:56 GMT -5
shhhhh said:
You're right...this community is all about getting angry and telling people they don't belong when they disagree with you...you've got the spirit.
Sorry you had such an awful time not having anything bad happen to you....better luck next time.
I can assure you it has never been about being a d*ck to a kind member who is simply looking for some WELL EDUCATED responses. Not your ego stroking sarcasm.
You weren't simply disagreeing. You were being a d*ck about it. That's not what this place is about. If you want to disagree, then articulate yourself like an adult. I know thats not the norm on most boards throughout the net, but it is here. If you want to disagree with me I'll welcome it with open arms. disagree without coming off like an a$$hole.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
You're right...this community is all about getting angry and telling people they don't belong when they disagree with you...you've got the spirit.
Sorry you had such an awful time not having anything bad happen to you....better luck next time.
I can assure you it has never been about being a d*ck to a kind member who is simply looking for some WELL EDUCATED responses. Not your ego stroking sarcasm.
You weren't simply disagreeing. You were being a d*ck about it. That's not what this place is about. If you want to disagree, then articulate yourself like an adult. I know thats not the norm on most boards throughout the net, but it is here. If you want to disagree with me I'll welcome it with open arms. disagree without coming off like an a$$hole.
You raise a good point...I forgot the community was also about name calling and insults.
Last year was my first Roo, and maybe before there was less security in previous years, or maybe my staff bracelet gave me some sort of immunity to being stopped at random during 'Roo, but I never had a problem with police or staff. I freely expressed my druq usage. I walked around Centeroo with my CANS of Natural Ice, and never once heard any fuss about it. And most of all, I never ONCE saw a police officer within Roo, besides at the gate. And they hightailed it out of there when their shift was over.
What I'd like to illustrate for you is this...
There will most likely be 80,000-90,000 ticket holders this year. On top of that, there is roughly 5k staff. So just for our measure, we'll say 100k people are attending Roo this year. Yes, you will probably get searched on the way in, but to be hassled while you are at Bonnaroo just seems unlikely to me. The odds are heavily in your favor. I can't imagine anyone dedicating over 100 police officers to bust heads in Bonnaroo, that's what private security companies are for. Even if you think over 200 police officers are present there, that's still 200 out of 100k. That's one out of every 500 people you see. Pretty good
As for getting searched on the way in, as long as your not one of the first people in, you should be good. I was working at the gate, I probably directed you in (especially if you were in an RV, then you definetly saw me), and I had a nice chat with one of the local police officers. Basically, they wanted to make an example of the first few people so the people behind them would toss their stuff before they came in. Beyond that, there's not much else they can do. Oh and by the way, watch out for FAKE police officers. People do attend festivals with the intention of imitating undercover officers, to confiscate drugs. ALWAYS ask for identification before allowing yourself to be searched.
And lastly, if you are being stopped at random like that, please refresh yourself on your rights. You have the right to walk away from a cop within Bonnaroo, as long as your not waving around an illegal substance and/or you don't look 12 years old. If they give you attitude, give it back because the law is not in charge of you, they are there to protect you. Wrongful searches and seizures are AGAINST the law, and you should inform police officers that THEY are breaking the law, not you. But hey, we all know how that usually turns out ;D My friendly disclaimer; you'd be better off doing that when your not carrying something illegal
Ya know - I really don't think Moby had an attitude about it he is just a smartass and we all know that - he was just being flip about it
I know you have been around for awhile - but if you both to look - Moby hasn't been here as long but he has as many posts as you and is also a valued member of the community and when you start the name calling - that is what makes you the immature one.
I was there in 06 and 07 - I saw not much difference between the two as far as police presence truthfully - we came from Mississippi - did not get pulled over - went in Wednesday night - I saw the sherrif over to the right with an RV at the gates - Bonnaroo staff had us pull most of our stuff out (which was a PITA because it was carefully packed in) took my glowsticks, and let us on in - we went to BFE - had a friend from Tent Only walk out and find us at 2 a.m. - I know they would not let him back into Tent Only until the next morning but they certainly did not detain him there.
I saw the mounties - I may have seen a few police officers but my group gave them no reason to loook twice at us and we were was quacked up most of the weekend.
I think your experience was the exception to the rule. I cannot wait to get back on the farm this year whether there is a police presence or not. It is the peopel that make Bonnaroo - not whether the police are around.
so to answer your questions:
How do you think Bonnaroo will go over this year? I think it will go over great - like it always has
Will there be a shitton of cops? there might or moght not be - we won't know until we get there and since I am married to someone that works for the police (as an Animal Control Officer and Dispatcher) I don't really care if they are there or not
Will there be a flock of metalheads? was there a flock of metalheads there last year for Tool? Yeah there will be people there for Metallica - there were people that were only there for The Police last year and only there for Radiohead the year before - it is what you make of it.
Would we all be able to overcome these things and have a great time? I don't know about you - but I can overcome anything if I put my mind to it and I am determined to have a great quacking time with my Inforoo buddies at Bonnaroo this year!
Last Edit: Feb 22, 2008 13:30:26 GMT -5 by Meg - Back to Top
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 13:27:40 GMT -5
bigjohn said:
I too think you probably got the shortest straw. Although, you didn't get busted, so I don't know if we can say that or not. On the other hand, an almost-bust can be just as scary. I think it's a personal choice you have to make. Cops make me pretty paranoid, and if you can't deal with that, maybe you want to try something else...because I don't think they'll be going away any time soon. We had no trouble. Of course, we were VIP so I assume we didn't have have the UCs running around that GA did. The riders came through one night when we were partying, but that was the closest call we had.
I hear you. This has been the stuff I've been tossing back and forth. I edited my above post warning people to just wait until they're inside. It's much safer and more cost effective. It's a buyers market.
It just doesn't sit right with me that they're inside the festival. They were never allowed in except for emergencies before. That's how it should be. We all got along without them before, and we can keep doing so.
I understand everyone else's attitudes who only went last year. It's all you really know pertaining to Bonnaroo. Just take my word on it. Things were never like this before. In the beginning, the police were non existant. They beefed up highway patrol 03-06, but thats not really a problem.
Anyone who says you should "expect the cops to be there" only went to Bonnaroo 2007. People who went previous years WERE NOT EXPECTING THE COPS. We all knew the drill, they just changed the game on us. I just don't want this festival to turn into Wakarusa 2006.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
Post by stuckinutero on Feb 22, 2008 13:36:55 GMT -5
aruawhere said:
Last year was my first Roo, and maybe before there was less security in previous years, or maybe my staff bracelet gave me some sort of immunity to being stopped at random during 'Roo, but I never had a problem with police or staff. I freely expressed my druq usage. I walked around Centeroo with my CANS of Natural Ice, and never once heard any fuss about it. And most of all, I never ONCE saw a police officer within Roo, besides at the gate. And they hightailed it out of there when their shift was over.
What I'd like to illustrate for you is this...
There will most likely be 80,000-90,000 ticket holders this year. On top of that, there is roughly 5k staff. So just for our measure, we'll say 100k people are attending Roo this year. Yes, you will probably get searched on the way in, but to be hassled while you are at Bonnaroo just seems unlikely to me. The odds are heavily in your favor. I can't imagine anyone dedicating over 100 police officers to bust heads in Bonnaroo, that's what private security companies are for. Even if you think over 200 police officers are present there, that's still 200 out of 100k. That's one out of every 500 people you see. Pretty good
As for getting searched on the way in, as long as your not one of the first people in, you should be good. I was working at the gate, I probably directed you in (especially if you were in an RV, then you definetly saw me), and I had a nice chat with one of the local police officers. Basically, they wanted to make an example of the first few people so the people behind them would toss their stuff before they came in. Beyond that, there's not much else they can do. Oh and by the way, watch out for FAKE police officers. People do attend festivals with the intention of imitating undercover officers, to confiscate no no word. ALWAYS ask for identification before allowing yourself to be searched.
And lastly, if you are being stopped at random like that, please refresh yourself on your rights. You have the right to walk away from a cop within Bonnaroo, as long as your not waving around an illegal substance and/or you don't look 12 years old. If they give you attitude, give it back because the law is not in charge of you, they are there to protect you. Wrongful searches and seizures are AGAINST the law, and you should inform police officers that THEY are breaking the law, not you. But hey, we all know how that usually turns out ;D My friendly disclaimer; you'd be better off doing that when your not carrying something illegal
Bingo!!!!!! Thats exactly what I was looking for.
I'm well educated on my rights. That's pretty much the only reason we didn't get the rest of our stuff discovered. Lock and key is always the way to go. Get yourself a search warrant before I'll let you in that.
I've been to many festivals in my life. I know the drill here. It just took me by surprise in 2007. I had never been in that situation at a festival before. To boot, Wakarusa 2006 was still very fresh in my mind. For those of you that don't know, read this article and you'll see how bad the police can get at a festival.
This caused a big scare in the festival community. Thanks for your time and thoughts my friends. I'll most likely be rounding up the troops today. See you all at the Inforoo brunch.
I was born in the back seat of a Yellow Cab in a hospital loading zone and with the meter still running. I emerged needing a shave and shouted 'Time Square, and step on it!
^^^look forward to seeing you at brunch!!!!! and yes - Wakarusa put a scare on - which is also part of why things get censored around here and there are no drugks at bonnaroo
The thing is, everyone expects some quantity of drugs to follow the bands that have usually played at bonnaroo. The jam band scene is somewhat infamous for it, at least from what i've seen. If the cops can legally be somewhere where there is a high probability of a drug presence then why wouldn't they? It is their job to enforce the law. Regardless of how the game use to be (i went in '06 and '07) I fully expect the farm to be strict when I arrive, and have been happily surprised. My first fest was actually bonnaroo '06 and despite only drinking on one night I had the time of my life. I went to wakarusa '07 and saw that the drug supply was very hit or miss, but the security was much more lax compared to what I read about '06. In my opinion, bonnaroo will be what you make of it and even without intoxicants the energy in the music can give you the best high of your life.
Cheesy Blues Brothers 2000 Quote: Buster Blues: You're not the Elwood Blues I know. The Elwood Blues I know once said that no pharmaceutical product could ever equal the rush you get when the band hits that groove; the people are dancin', and shoutin', and swayin'; and the house is rockin'!
The thing is, everyone expects some quantity of no no word to follow the bands that have usually played at bonnaroo. The jam band scene is somewhat infamous for it, at least from what i've seen. If the cops can legally be somewhere where there is a high probability of a no no word presence then why wouldn't they? It is their job to enforce the law. Regardless of how the game use to be (i went in '06 and '07) I fully expect the farm to be strict when I arrive, and have been happily surprised. My first fest was actually bonnaroo '06 and despite only drinking on one night I had the time of my life. I went to wakarusa '07 and saw that the no no word supply was very hit or miss, but the security was much more lax compared to what I read about '06. In my opinion, bonnaroo will be what you make of it and even without intoxicants the energy in the music can give you the best high of your life.
Cheesy Blues Brothers 2000 Quote: Buster Blues: You're not the Elwood Blues I know. The Elwood Blues I know once said that no pharmaceutical product could ever equal the rush you get when the band hits that groove; the people are dancin', and shoutin', and swayin'; and the house is rockin'!
Word...I agree 100%...but I'm wrong and stupid and don't belong here...so don't feel too good about it.
I'm talking about the real police. Distinguishing factors involce a large hangun on the hip.
The cops made random appearances at the gates last year according to the staff that was up there. They hated them. This was the first year that such a thing happened.
Who, these guys...
Yes we encountered police at the gates. No sweat. They were friendly as can be. I also saw them around the campgrounds. But I never once saw an abuse of power. I give them respect and I get it back.
I know many of us very much enjoy getting away from our normal lives for a few days and running around as quacked up as we can is part of that fun. That being said we all understand that what some of us enjoy doing is in fact against the law.
I believe many of us have grown complacent about the risks and we mistake inaction by the authorities as ignorance or even acceptance. The Wakarusa incident, while disappointing, should serve as reminder that the authorities are well aware of what happens at festivals and that what some of us choose to partake in is in fact illegal and the potential is there for enforcement action no matter how we feel about the acts themselves or whether they should in fact be legal or not.
oh hush - put on your big girl panties and deal with it - damn smartass - go find Capt. Buzzkill, k? ;D
ps - you know i lurvs u, huh???
HA HA....I got a smile a wink and a pair of kissy faces from the queen of inforoo....who doesn't belong here now!?!?!
ah ah ah = don't rub it in - he was here long before you - he has just been MIA - you boys need to play nicely - after all - this is Bonnaroo - the happiest place on earth!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
I don't think you're happy enough! That's right! I'll teach you to be happy! I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs! Now, boys and girls, let's try it again!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
If'n you aint the grandaddy of all liars! The little critters of nature... They don't know that they're ugly! That's very funny, a fly marrying a bumblebee! I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you believe me?!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
Post by GratefulHippie on Feb 22, 2008 14:24:53 GMT -5
stuckinutero said:
shhhhh said:
You're right...this community is all about getting angry and telling people they don't belong when they disagree with you...you've got the spirit.
Sorry you had such an awful time not having anything bad happen to you....better luck next time.
I can assure you it has never been about being a d*ck to a kind member who is simply looking for some WELL EDUCATED responses. Not your ego stroking sarcasm.
You weren't simply disagreeing. You were being a d*ck about it. That's not what this place is about. If you want to disagree, then articulate yourself like an adult. I know thats not the norm on most boards throughout the net, but it is here. If you want to disagree with me I'll welcome it with open arms. disagree without coming off like an a$$hole.
pot, meet kettle
and it seems to me that you weren't so much looking for opinions in general, but rather opinions that conform to what you want to hear
but in response to your post, i've only been once, in 2006, and i never even realized there was a presence. perhaps it has changed since then.
and please come back to Roo. if for no other reason than to make up for your bad experiences last year. and perhaps not taking an RV would be good?