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I also said that even if I was entirely wrong about Jazmo/Monky, I still withdrew my Jazmo vote on account of Jazmo having such a strong vote lead. I would argue that we both have plausible reasoning here. I'm not 100% certain there's anything going on myself, but it just doesn't pass the smell test to me.
I'm more certain that I didn't want any player coming out to such a strong lead that it narrowed our possibilities down to either an outright kill or a two-way second runoff. I think those possibilities work for-Mafia/against-Townspeople, and that's exactly where things were headed. Wasn't comfortable with a lead that big, regardless of the player receiving it.
Whatever. Maybe I'm just a relic here? Some of you are saying it's your second rodeo, or you're still figuring it out because it's your third game. My third game was way back in like Mafia 10. Maybe I'm just a cranky old-timer telling you darn kids to get off my lawn here.
With a 5 person runoff I'd say good chance of a mafia being involved, right Hakunah?
I was re-reading the thread, and this post stuck out to me. Up until this point Hakuna had only made his one post (the initial vote), and there was no voting or other interaction between the two of you. Why did you direct this question to Hakuna specifically?
With a 5 person runoff I'd say good chance of a mafia being involved, right Hakunah?
I was re-reading the thread, and this post stuck out to me. Up until this point Hakuna had only made his one post (the initial vote), and there was no voting or other interaction between the two of you. Why did you direct this question to Hakuna specifically?
Busting chops lol. Refer to page 3 of game 70 and page 1 of game 71 for reference
I was re-reading the thread, and this post stuck out to me. Up until this point Hakuna had only made his one post (the initial vote), and there was no voting or other interaction between the two of you. Why did you direct this question to Hakuna specifically?
Busting chops lol. Refer to page 3 of game 70 and page 1 of game 71 for reference
His "not reciprocating" move back there still seems weird to me. I also suspect the Jazmo runoff surge might be related to Jazmo's initial round vote.
Could be wrong, but not sure what else to go on here.
This is the kind of thing that frustrates me and makes me suspicious of you KDogg. Seriously, did you not read my explanation? Is not reciprocating a suspicious act now?
Well in case my explanation didn't make it clear, here is what it has allowed me to do:
Surf >>> carini >>>> Jazmo
Carini doesn't seem suspicious at all and Jazmo does a little. At this point with zero actual evidence (no whacks to go by) it's a crap shoot but Jazmo does seem to be acting unusual.
Reciprocating a vote just seems like common sense to me, for one.
Venturing into speculation on top of that common sense: the player to whom you wouldn't reciprocate wound up getting what I see as an unhealthy lead which would've restricted our further options.
I don't know if I'm even right here. I'd call it "uncomfortable within reason."
Because we're down to three people and surf has been discussed at length already, I've decided to do some looking into Carini, and admittedly, I haven't found much, as he hasn't really participated too much in this game. Here are all of his posts so far:
I'm going to stick with Jaz for now. I was considering changing to Surf as a little payback but I don't mind both of them moving on so a vote on Jaz has the desired effect still. Depending on how things fall I am not locked in.
Relatively superfluous post that doesn't tell us much.
Ref Notes -voting will close when all votes are cast. depending on activity, I may close voting early at the end of Friday...or I may let it run into the weekend.
ed: removed the quote on jimmy so it would read better.
Talley looks right but you missed Viking changing to me in the vote changes section. Also JFG's vote isn't listed
I think my way of thinking and the way I have communicated it in the past has been a little skewed probably my fault.
When someone votes against me I consider them mafia. In other words, I look at them more closely and look for reasons that they may be mafia. In this case, combining that with the inconsistency I have a second reason to think that.
So in the end he ends up in the runoff without me having to vote for him. And I still have a vote to cast that I can then turn to him. It's a way to garner another vote for him without me having to cast it so I can have my vote in my pocket to help lynch him. Had he not been a lock for the runoff I would have, for sure, but I didn't have to.
That's the whole train of thought there
This is what I don't understand. At that time I was the only vote on him. How was he a lock for the runoff?
I was re-reading the thread, and this post stuck out to me. Up until this point Hakuna had only made his one post (the initial vote), and there was no voting or other interaction between the two of you. Why did you direct this question to Hakuna specifically?
Busting chops lol. Refer to page 3 of game 70 and page 1 of game 71 for reference
Answering my question.
His posts offer very little insight or discussion. So then I decided to look at his previous three games:
In Mafia 70 - 14 posts in first four pages. (Carini was inspector) In Mafia 71 - 25 posts in the first four pages. (Carini was townie) In Mafia 73 - 23 posts in the first four pages. (Carini was townie) This game - 8 posts in the first four pages.
In the games where he is a townie, he much more involved, there are vote switches, and he defends himself when he is voted on. He seemed to take more of a step back when he had a more important role as inspector. Either way, all of the games displayed much more activity and helpfulness than this one. He's been voted on and hasn't defended himself, he hasn't said much of use, and he's kept the same initial vote that he made at the beginning of the game. To me, this seems like quite a departure from how he's played in games previous. (And for the record, I know that I too have kept my first vote on surfbum throughout the game so far, but I feel like that's more expected because I wanted to lay low after drawing so much attention to myself, and because a connection between surf and I has already been raised since he didn't reciprocate my vote on him. Taking my vote off of him would raise a lot of suspicion, so I've been unwilling to do that. Carini, on the other hand, voted for me outright at the beginning of the game and has made little meaningful contribution since).
Yes, I fully admit that I am trying to deflect votes off of myself - that's part of the point of this game, and if playing the game makes me look suspicious, so be it (sorry monky). However, I don't think my observations are unwarranted. Quite frankly I'm perturbed by the lack of activity in this game by a variety of players. I think it means that either there are no Mafia in the runoff so they're just sitting pretty waiting for the townies to get on with lynching each other, or it means that we've snagged one of 'em so they're wary of making moves.
I'm not ready to move my vote off of surf, largely because of the amount of heat I know it'll draw on me (and Lord knows I've done that enough this game), but I wanted to do some digging and present my findings to the rest of the town. Am I just completely grasping at straws here, or is the level of inactivity here something we should be looking at?
On an aside, I think what I did there was a product of having such a long-standing frenemy/vote-partner arrangement with ☮ superbek ☮.
We'd always cast Day One votes with each other, and kind of evolved our reciprocal voting into that. We understood we'd sometimes want out of situations while we wouldn't trust each other, and devised that as our method. Our understanding was that when one of us wanted to un-reciprocate, the first party would propose a paired switching to begin negotiations. The second party would then either reject it, accept it and pick from suggestions, or accept and counter-propose options.
Feels totally natural to me, but the more I think about it the more I understand how a newer player might be a bit thrown off.
Don't trust me? I get it. A lot of that old Mafia crowd is gone, but I'm sure there's some who could vouch for me - with familiarity with my Mafia history, but zero knowledge of my role this game. I'm sure baconMike DNothingButFlowers @eap730 LD @lovelucklaughter @superfurryanimal & others have been around long enough to remember those times.
Because we're down to three people and surf has been discussed at length already, I've decided to do some looking into Carini, and admittedly, I haven't found much, as he hasn't really participated too much in this game. Here are all of his posts so far:
I'm going to stick with Jaz for now. I was considering changing to Surf as a little payback but I don't mind both of them moving on so a vote on Jaz has the desired effect still. Depending on how things fall I am not locked in.
Relatively superfluous post that doesn't tell us much.
Busting chops lol. Refer to page 3 of game 70 and page 1 of game 71 for reference
Answering my question.
His posts offer very little insight or discussion. So then I decided to look at his previous three games:
In Mafia 70 - 14 posts in first four pages. (Carini was inspector) In Mafia 71 - 25 posts in the first four pages. (Carini was townie) In Mafia 73 - 23 posts in the first four pages. (Carini was townie) This game - 8 posts in the first four pages.
In the games where he is a townie, he much more involved, there are vote switches, and he defends himself when he is voted on. He seemed to take more of a step back when he had a more important role as inspector. Either way, all of the games displayed much more activity and helpfulness than this one. He's been voted on and hasn't defended himself, he hasn't said much of use, and he's kept the same initial vote that he made at the beginning of the game. To me, this seems like quite a departure from how he's played in games previous. (And for the record, I know that I too have kept my first vote on surfbum throughout the game so far, but I feel like that's more expected because I wanted to lay low after drawing so much attention to myself, and because a connection between surf and I has already been raised since he didn't reciprocate my vote on him. Taking my vote off of him would raise a lot of suspicion, so I've been unwilling to do that. Carini, on the other hand, voted for me outright at the beginning of the game and has made little meaningful contribution since).
Yes, I fully admit that I am trying to deflect votes off of myself - that's part of the point of this game, and if playing the game makes me look suspicious, so be it (sorry monky). However, I don't think my observations are unwarranted. Quite frankly I'm perturbed by the lack of activity in this game by a variety of players. I think it means that either there are no Mafia in the runoff so they're just sitting pretty waiting for the townies to get on with lynching each other, or it means that we've snagged one of 'em so they're wary of making moves.
I'm not ready to move my vote off of surf, largely because of the amount of heat I know it'll draw on me (and Lord knows I've done that enough this game), but I wanted to do some digging and present my findings to the rest of the town. Am I just completely grasping at straws here, or is the level of inactivity here something we should be looking at?
Yes, I have posted and talked less then other games, but I believe that is a reflection more on this game itself then me as a player. It is very hard to do anything without putting a huge target on your back in a game like this as you have noticed lol. I'd also not put to much stock into the game I was inspector as it was my first game that caused me to post less, not necessarily my role.
I did vote you initially, and I didn't change like I have been historically known to do once or twice. I try to find some kind of BS reason, but the only thing that stood out was "first to stack gets stacked" and I was already on you, so what could I do? I was online as we were nearing the deadline and I wouldn't have let Surf go if it came down to it, as I'm sure a few others would have stepped in also.
I only questioned the vote for me by Surf because I felt it was the only one that needed it. Billy's was no different then any other random early vote, and Viking explained perfectly.
Much of the discussion has focused on you and Surf, and I felt like joining in would be like beating a dead horse as I didn't have anything new to add, but here are my thoughts-It seemed to me like you were almost protecting each other in a way at first when he didn't return your vote and you questioned JFG when he voted for Surf.
Soooo I wasn't planning on coming out this early, but I'm your handy-dandy inspector. Carini was my given name, so I figure even if I get whacked during the night, getting one Mafia down this early in the game is a damn good start. I'm kinda mad at myself for starting off voting for Surfbum, because I'm pretty sure he's not Mafia - his initial vote for Carini is what put Carini in the runoff, and I really don't see him doing that if they were both Mafia. Then I couldn't take my vote off Surf or try to defend him during the game because people were already making an erroneous Jazmo-Surf connection. Sorry Surf, for not being able to take you outta the runoff without drawing too much heat to myself.
Billy has kept his vote on Carini the whole time as well, so I'm not to suspicious of him either.
I think that either Hakuna or Tejas may be Mafia, but not both, due to Tejas saying that he liked a runoff of Tejas/Hakuna/Surfbum. Assuming that Surf is townie, Tejas would not have wanted a runoff of 2/3 Mafia unless he was bluffing really strongly.
So now a few different things may play out. Enough Mafia will stack on me to ensure they get two townie kills, or we get enough townie votes on Carini to lynch him. If the latter happens, I'll either get whacked (confirming Carini as Mafia but possibly vindicating Surf/Billy), or they'll let me live so that it'll seem like I was a bluffing Mafia (in which case you guys would probably go after me next round). We still start off with a Mafia whack in that scenario, so I'm okay with that.
I'm also suspicious as fuck in regards to Hakuna, because he's only posted thrice, and his last vote for me didn't really have much of an explanation. Maybe he's Mafia trying to vote away someone they suspect might be inspector? If so, good call.
That's all I have to say. Sorry for fucking up so early in the game with my quoting mistakes. Next time I'll make sure to just lay low and skate on by. Either way, hopefully giving you Carini and potentially clearing two townies (Surf/Billy) will be enough to earn your forgiveness.
I suppose I could be wrong about Surf, but I really really think he wouldn't have stacked on carini and kept his vote there for so long if they were both Mafia.
I wasn't gonna come out this early because I was hoping I could sway enough votes to you, but after I saw Jimmy posted a 10pm deadline and Hakuna just upped my votes, I felt like it was do-or-die time.
I wasn't gonna come out this early because I was hoping I could sway enough votes to you, but after I saw Jimmy posted a 10pm deadline and Hakuna just upped my votes, I felt like it was do-or-die time.
Do you feel like you were in that much danger? I'm pretty sure we would have had a second runoff and/or an extension. Is this a ruse to protect you and Surf who you were quick to cast as most likely innocent?
I wasn't gonna come out this early because I was hoping I could sway enough votes to you, but after I saw Jimmy posted a 10pm deadline and Hakuna just upped my votes, I felt like it was do-or-die time.
Do you feel like you were in that much danger? I'm pretty sure we would have had a second runoff and/or an extension. Is this a ruse to protect you and Surf who you were quick to cast as most likely innocent?
Although it is likely that there may have been another runoff, with you down to two votes and surf and I at four and five (respectively), the next runoff would have been between me (a townie) and surf (likely a townie, as I've described previously). Since you've input so little, I didn't see the tide turning to include you in the next runoff - which was smart play on your part; I just got lucky that you happened to be my given name and you also ended up in the runoff. So it was either come out now and name you while voting you off in the first round was still an option, or wait and hope to not get voted off or whacked. I felt that that chance was rather slim since I already had several players calling me suspicious, and I've gunned for you hard enough to warrant inspector speculation amongst you Mafia.
Could be a moot point asking this now, but now is when I'm scrolling back to reread...
Surf switched (from Monky) to Carini when we were expecting him to reciprocate on Jazmo. Carini never reciprocated Surf's vote either. Stayed on Jazmo, for what that's worth.
In order, initial went: Carini >> Jazmo (2nd vote) Surf >> Monky (6th, reciprocating 3rd vote) Jazmo >> Surf (11th vote) Then later Surf >> Monky >> Carini
Not saying this implicates or exonerates anyone by itself, but this triangular voting seems a bit odd. Or is it just me?
Speaking of which... Sleepy and/or Monky: explain to me why you two gunning for Jazmo in this runoff was strictly coincidence again?
You want me to explain the concept of coincidence to you? Or how there are only 10 possible ways to vote? After you were so eager to throw Jazmo into a day one runoff?
Stop trying to form connections that are obviously not there. Jazmo wasn't acting like a typical townie, so he drew my attention; those suspicions weren't entirely unfounded, because he's not a typical townie. I'm willing to trust him for the time being, because it would be an unprecedentedly risky move to fake an inspector claim on the first day.
Hahaha, nice. I think I have a second one pinned down then as well. As I said earlier I thought that jaz acted the most suspicious, but the carini move was the most self serving. I would prefer that there be another runoff, but at this point I don't know what we will gain. Jaz, if you really are the inspector, and I tend to believe you, that could have been the most effective day 1 reveal ever.
