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This is all pretty ironic. The only reason Penn State is even in the Big Ten Championship is because of a H2H tiebreaker. But we're also supposed to believe H2H doesn't matter if the game happened in week 4.
If Michigan wanted to get in the CFP they shouldn't have lost to Iowa and Ohio State, and if Ohio State wanted to get it they shouldn't have lost to Penn State.
Penn State did what they were supposed to go to get in the B1G Championship and if they win their conference, which I believe was the best in the country this year, than Penn State should be in.
If Penn State wanted to be in they shouldn't have lost to Pitt or gotten the shit kicked out of them by Michigan. That argument goes both ways.
But like I said before, IF the committee says conference championships matter and put PSU in over OSU, I'm cool with that. But I have a hard time with this hybrid "conference championships matter except for OSU" argument that's popping up.
I guess if the final rankings are something like PSU 3 and OSU 4 that would work too. (edit, actually no it wouldn't, #4 should be a conference champ)
If Michigan wanted to get in the CFP they shouldn't have lost to Iowa and Ohio State, and if Ohio State wanted to get it they shouldn't have lost to Penn State.
Penn State did what they were supposed to go to get in the B1G Championship and if they win their conference, which I believe was the best in the country this year, than Penn State should be in.
If Penn State wanted to be in they shouldn't have lost to Pitt or gotten the shit kicked out of them by Michigan. That argument goes both ways.
But like I said before, IF the committee says conference championships matter and put PSU in over OSU, I'm cool with that. But I have a hard time with this hybrid "conference championships matter except for OSU" argument that's popping up.
I guess if the final rankings are something like PSU 3 and OSU 4 that would work too.
See I would be fine with Penn State and Ohio State getting in if Clemson or Washington were to lose. I think Colorado would have some argument to get in, but they're so behind already and would be even more behind if Oklahoma beats Oklahoma State. And there's no way VT could ever get in.
If Penn State wanted to be in they shouldn't have lost to Pitt or gotten the shit kicked out of them by Michigan. That argument goes both ways.
But like I said before, IF the committee says conference championships matter and put PSU in over OSU, I'm cool with that. But I have a hard time with this hybrid "conference championships matter except for OSU" argument that's popping up.
I guess if the final rankings are something like PSU 3 and OSU 4 that would work too.
See I would be fine with Penn State and Ohio State getting in if Clemson or Washington were to lose. I think Colorado would have some argument to get in, but they're so behind already and would be even more behind if Oklahoma beats Oklahoma State. And there's no way VT could ever get in.
And what exactly is the argument for a 2 loss conference champion PSU getting in but not a 2 loss conference champion Colorado?
WHAT? Neither wisconson or PSU have a better resume than Michigan.
UM is 3-1 against the CFP top 10, with that loss being in double OT.
Wisconsin is 0-2 against the top 10, and 1-2 against the top 25. With a loss to Michigan.
Penn state is 1-1 against the top 10, 1-2 against the top 25. With an embarrassing loss to Michigan.
If Colorado beats Washington, it means Michigan will have beaten the Pac12 and B1G champions.
The B1G champion has to look dominant in their game, hope for a VT win, and Washington to blow out Colorado (UM beat CO 45-28) to have a shot at jumping Michigan. CFP will have to weigh winning the B1G championship more than UM's better resume, the H2H results, and the eye test. I don't think there is anyway that PSU can make the CFP. They got absolutely curb stomped by Michigan. Wiscy at least played it close against them.
Penn State played Michigan back in September. They're the only team that has beat Ohio St, which the committee thinks is the 2nd best team in the country. Even though they have played a bunch of shitty teams since OSU, they have virtually blew every one of them out of the water (which include teams like Iowa, who beat Michigan and MSU who lost by a single point to Ohio St.)
I'm fine with Michigan getting the nod over the Big Ten champ if the situation occurs, cause I know PSU nor Wisconsin could hold a candle to Bama (and i have no rooting interest in the Big Ten)...but if that happens then what was even the point of the conference championship game or having the title "conference champ"?
It was september for both teams in the game. so quacking what. This line of defense doesn't hold when the final score was 49-10. That isn't some beginning of the season jitters; that is embarrassing. That's how bad Bama beat TN.
If we are gonna use that kind of garbage logic, should we include that PSU had a bye week and and a home night game and still needed a blocked FG to beat OSU, who was coming off a tough Wisconsin game, who ALSO had a bye before the OSU game? (the answer is no.) I just don't see how anyone can conceivably say PSU deserves to be in the CFP more than the UM that beat the shiz out of them and played and beat more, better teams.
as for the point about conference title game: I don't hear people bitching every march when they do the conference tournaments before the big NCAA tournament. Don't start that shiz now with football. If we were under the BCS and just take two teams, sure the conference championship can mean something and they could put Clemson/Washington in over OSU and call it a day. But that isn't the system anymore.
edit: for quacks sake y'all twist some shiz around to get the outcome you want. keep your logic consistent if you want to be taken seriously.
WHAT? Neither wisconson or PSU have a better resume than Michigan.
UM is 3-1 against the CFP top 10, with that loss being in double OT.
Wisconsin is 0-2 against the top 10, and 1-2 against the top 25. With a loss to Michigan.
Penn state is 1-1 against the top 10, 1-2 against the top 25. With an embarrassing loss to Michigan.
If Colorado beats Washington, it means Michigan will have beaten the Pac12 and B1G champions.
The B1G champion has to look dominant in their game, hope for a VT win, and Washington to blow out Colorado (UM beat CO 45-28) to have a shot at jumping Michigan. CFP will have to weigh winning the B1G championship more than UM's better resume, the H2H results, and the eye test. I don't think there is anyway that PSU can make the CFP. They got absolutely curb stomped by Michigan. Wiscy at least played it close against them.
Penn State played Michigan back in September. They're the only team that has beat Ohio St, which the committee thinks is the 2nd best team in the country. Even though they have played a bunch of shitty teams since OSU, they have virtually blew every one of them out of the water (which include teams like Iowa, who beat Michigan and MSU who lost by a single point to Ohio St.)
I'm fine with Michigan getting the nod over the Big Ten champ if the situation occurs, cause I know PSU nor Wisconsin couldn't* hold a candle to Bama (and I have no rooting interest in the Big Ten)...but if that happens then what was even the point of the conference championship game or having the title "conference champ"?
See I would be fine with Penn State and Ohio State getting in if Clemson or Washington were to lose. I think Colorado would have some argument to get in, but they're so behind already and would be even more behind if Oklahoma beats Oklahoma State. And there's no way VT could ever get in.
And what exactly is the argument for a 2 loss conference champion PSU getting in but not a 2 loss conference champion Colorado?
Penn State played a much tougher schedule than Colorado
This is all pretty ironic. The only reason Penn State is even in the Big Ten Championship is because of a H2H tiebreaker. But we're also supposed to believe H2H doesn't matter if the game happened in week 4.
If Michigan wanted to get in the CFP they shouldn't have lost to Iowa and Ohio State, and if Ohio State wanted to get it they shouldn't have lost to Penn State.
Penn State did what they were supposed to go to get in the B1G Championship and if they win their conference, which I believe was the best in the country this year, than Penn State should be in.
Penn State did what they were supposed to do: have Iowa make a FG at the gun to beat Michigan.
Post by potentpotables on Dec 1, 2016 15:04:51 GMT -5
Maybe we can all agree that the playoff is better than the BCS because right now, we'd be getting a championship game between Alabama and Ohio State and it would have been pretty much destined (with both teams controlling their own destinies) since the second Saturday in November.
Penn State played a much tougher schedule than Colorado
And Michigan and Ohio state played a much tougher schedule than both of them.
Penn state's opponents are at .530 on the season. That's garbage.
Doesn't fucking matter. If Penn State wins the B1G, then they should be in. Same for Colorado. Conference championships should fucking matter.
And don't give me that shit about the NCAA Basketball tournament. there's 68 goddamn teams in the thing. Chances are if you win your regular season conference title you're gonna get into the big dance,
And Michigan and Ohio state played a much tougher schedule than both of them.
Penn state's opponents are at .530 on the season. That's garbage.
Doesn't fucking matter. If Penn State wins the B1G, then they should be in. Same for Colorado. Conference championships should fucking matter.
And don't give me that shit about the NCAA Basketball tournament. there's 68 goddamn teams in the thing. Chances are if you win your regular season conference title you're gonna get into the big dance,
Winning your conference in basketball doesn't get you a higher seed in the tournament than a better team from your conference. There are only 4 "seeds" in the college football "tournament." someone is gonna be left out even if they are a conference champion. it's tough titties but that's the system they setup. PSU can still be happy about their B1G championship while playing in Pasadena.
Maybe we can all agree that the playoff is better than the BCS because right now, we'd be getting a championship game between Alabama and Ohio State and it would have been pretty much destined (with both teams controlling their own destinies) since the second Saturday in November.
That's the reason a playoff is better.
The whole fun of the BCS was the chaos caused by late season losses. Now we get that x4. CFP is WAY better. It'll be even better once they stop scheduling games on one of the nation's biggest drinking holidays.
Maybe we can all agree that the playoff is better than the BCS because right now, we'd be getting a championship game between Alabama and Ohio State and it would have been pretty much destined (with both teams controlling their own destinies) since the second Saturday in November.
That's the reason a playoff is better.
The whole fun of the BCS was the chaos caused by late season losses. Now we get that x4. CFP is WAY better. It'll be even better once they stop scheduling games on one of the nation's biggest drinking holidays. Saban returns to the depths of hell from whence he came
Post by Redman's Meth on Dec 1, 2016 15:43:33 GMT -5
All that this arguing about who should or should not be in proves is that the playoff needs to be expanded. At least to 16 teams, with 24 (Top 8 w/ a bye) or 32 being ideal.
Trying to whittle it down to decide who is #4 is much harder than figuring out who to let in at #32.
Every other level of football from high school to the NFL decides it's champion on the field in an expanded playoff structure. And Div. 1 College Football's would be the greatest spectacle in sports. It would put March Madness to fucking shame.
All that this arguing about who should or should not be in proves is that the playoff needs to be expanded. At least to 16 teams, with 24 (Top 8 w/ a bye) or 32 being ideal.
Trying to whittle it down to decide who is #4 is much harder than figuring out who to let in at #32.
Every other level of football from high school to the NFL decides it's champion on the field in an expanded playoff structure. And Div. 1 College Football's would be the greatest spectacle in sports. It would put March Madness to fucking shame.
Okay Redman. You have my attention.
Let's say we expand to 16 teams. Do all conference champions get a guaranteed berth? Just the P5? Or is nothing guaranteed?
All that this arguing about who should or should not be in proves is that the playoff needs to be expanded. At least to 16 teams, with 24 (Top 8 w/ a bye) or 32 being ideal.
Trying to whittle it down to decide who is #4 is much harder than figuring out who to let in at #32.
Every other level of football from high school to the NFL decides it's champion on the field in an expanded playoff structure. And Div. 1 College Football's would be the greatest spectacle in sports. It would put March Madness to fucking shame.
The more teams you let in, the less meaning the regular season has, and the regular season has a ton of meaning right now (more than any other major sport in America). Ohio State and Michigan last weekend going into double OT was great because it's a rivalry and they hate each other but was even more meaningful because it was a virtual playoff game. It would have meant nothing as far as a playoff if there were 8 teams in the tournament.
All that this arguing about who should or should not be in proves is that the playoff needs to be expanded. At least to 16 teams, with 24 (Top 8 w/ a bye) or 32 being ideal.
Trying to whittle it down to decide who is #4 is much harder than figuring out who to let in at #32.
Every other level of football from high school to the NFL decides it's champion on the field in an expanded playoff structure. And Div. 1 College Football's would be the greatest spectacle in sports. It would put March Madness to fucking shame.
The more teams you let in, the less meaning the regular season has, and the regular season has a ton of meaning right now (more than any other major sport in America). Ohio State and Michigan last weekend going into double OT was great because it's a rivalry and they hate each other but was even more meaningful because it was a virtual playoff game. It would have meant nothing as far as a playoff if there were 8 teams in the tournament.
Post by potentpotables on Dec 1, 2016 16:03:27 GMT -5
My idea is actually for four conferences of 16 teams each - West, South, East, North. There are currently 65 P5 teams - 14 in ACC, Big Ten, SEC, 12 in PAC XII, 10 in Big XII, plus Notre Dame. I'd kick Rutgers out because I hate them. The divisions could use tweaking - maybe take the Big XII and just take 2 teams from each to add to SEC and ACC, one plus Notre Dame for Big Ten, and 4 for PAC XII. Anyway, would look something like this:
West - UW, Wazzou, Oregon, Oregon St, UCLA, USC, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona State, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech South - TAMU, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Alabama, Auburn, Mizzou, Georgia, Florida, Kentucky, Vandy, Tennessee, South Carolina, FSU, Miami East - BC, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, UVA, Va Tech, UNC, Duke, Wake, NC St, Maryland, Penn State, Clemson, Ga Tech, Ohio State, Notre Dame North - Minnesota, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, Northwestern, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Utah, Colorado
Split them into two divisions of 8 teams apiece. Play your 7 divisional conference opponents plus 5 other games from the other 3 conferences or the other division in your conference or non P4 conferences, but strength of schedule would matter big time, especially non-con.
Conference championships would be the first round of the playoffs, and then you'd have your 8 team playoff.
The whole fun of the BCS was the chaos caused by late season losses. Now we get that x4. CFP is WAY better. It'll be even better once they stop scheduling games on one of the nation's biggest drinking holidays. Saban returns to the depths of hell from whence he came
Penn State played Michigan back in September. They're the only team that has beat Ohio St, which the committee thinks is the 2nd best team in the country. Even though they have played a bunch of shitty teams since OSU, they have virtually blew every one of them out of the water (which include teams like Iowa, who beat Michigan and MSU who lost by a single point to Ohio St.)
I'm fine with Michigan getting the nod over the Big Ten champ if the situation occurs, cause I know PSU nor Wisconsin could hold a candle to Bama (and i have no rooting interest in the Big Ten)...but if that happens then what was even the point of the conference championship game or having the title "conference champ"?
It was september for both teams in the game. so quacking what. This line of defense doesn't hold when the final score was 49-10. That isn't some beginning of the season jitters; that is embarrassing. That's how bad Bama beat TN.
If we are gonna use that kind of garbage logic, should we include that PSU had a bye week and and a home night game and still needed a blocked FG to beat OSU, who was coming off a tough Wisconsin game, who ALSO had a bye before the OSU game? (the answer is no.) I just don't see how anyone can conceivably say PSU deserves to be in the CFP more than the UM that beat the shiz out of them and played and beat more, better teams.
as for the point about conference title game: I don't hear people bitching every march when they do the conference tournaments before the big NCAA tournament. Don't start that shiz now with football. If we were under the BCS and just take two teams, sure the conference championship can mean something and they could put Clemson/Washington in over OSU and call it a day. But that isn't the system anymore.
edit: for quacks sake y'all twist some shiz around to get the outcome you want. keep your logic consistent if you want to be taken seriously.
1. I think the conference tournaments in NCAA basketball are fucking stupid. I feel like I bitch about that every March on Facebook or Twitter.
2. I'm not "twisting" anything around for an outcome I want, I could careless about the Big Ten or any team that currently has a realistic shot at making the playoff.
All I'm saying is if the Big Ten champ can't jump Michigan who they're directly behind in the playoff rankings going into the title game while Michigan is watching at home, then conference championship games are virtually meaningless and should be done away with.
Doesn't fucking matter. If Penn State wins the B1G, then they should be in. Same for Colorado. Conference championships should fucking matter.
And don't give me that shit about the NCAA Basketball tournament. there's 68 goddamn teams in the thing. Chances are if you win your regular season conference title you're gonna get into the big dance,
Winning your conference in basketball doesn't get you a higher seed in the tournament than a better team from your conference. There are only 4 "seeds" in the college football "tournament." someone is gonna be left out even if they are a conference champion. it's tough titties but that's the system they setup. PSU can still be happy about their B1G championship while playing in Pasadena.
Lol I'm sure that's how the fanbase would feel, especially if two teams from the Big Ten make the playoff but them being the "Big Ten Champs" don't get in.
2. I'm not "twisting" anything around for an outcome I want, I could careless about the Big Ten or any team that currently has a realistic shot at making the playoff.
that was directed at person saying a 2-loss penn state should get in for winning the B1G because championships matter, but 2-loss Colorado wouldn't get in as Pac12 champ because they aren't ranked high enough.
All that this arguing about who should or should not be in proves is that the playoff needs to be expanded. At least to 16 teams, with 24 (Top 8 w/ a bye) or 32 being ideal.
Trying to whittle it down to decide who is #4 is much harder than figuring out who to let in at #32.
Every other level of football from high school to the NFL decides it's champion on the field in an expanded playoff structure. And Div. 1 College Football's would be the greatest spectacle in sports. It would put March Madness to fucking shame.
The more teams you let in, the less meaning the regular season has, and the regular season has a ton of meaning right now (more than any other major sport in America). Ohio State and Michigan last weekend going into double OT was great because it's a rivalry and they hate each other but was even more meaningful because it was a virtual playoff game. It would have meant nothing as far as a playoff if there were 8 teams in the tournament.
Sorry but this is just a dumb argument that I have never bought into. OSU-Mich will always mean something. You think UNC vs Duke basketball in the regular season doesn't mean anything? Hell I watched UNC vs Indiana play BB last night, and it looked like it meant a hell of a lot to those players and fans. And it was a damn good game.
Besides if the playoff is expanded that means that OSU-Mich would've had HUGE implications with regards to seeding. In an 8, 16 or 32 team playoff it would have meant that the loser would be #5 and be on Bama's side of the bracket, and the winner wouldn't have to face Bama until the NC. You think that means nothing? And in their third game of a 32 team playoff #5 would most likely have to beat #4 just for a chance to play #1. #2 would most likely face either #7 or #10 in their third game.
An 8, 12, or 16 team playoff would be acceptable because I would actually consider it a playoff. Right now all we have is two play-in games into the NC. Roll back the regular season to 11 games and having a 24 or 32 team playoff would still be my ideal scenario.
I'm not making the regular season any less meaningful. I'm making the post season much more meaningful. I'm taking the number of meaningful post season games from 3 to 31 (in a 32 team playoff), 23 (in a 24 team playoff), or 15 (in a 16 team playoff). And you'd play the first few rounds in the higher seeds home stadium, meaning we would get CF playoff games in actual college football stadiums! Oh sweet lord think of the atmosphere at those games! It would be the greatest fucking thing ever!
Sorry buddy, but I feel very strongly about this and you're going to have a hard time convincing me otherwise.