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Post by piggy pablo on Dec 26, 2017 22:24:38 GMT -5
It's been a messy, noisy Day 1 where I personally have gotten to watch Potent re-vote twice and a couple of folks switch votes altering runoffs either before or right after the end of rounds (ZIG and Maddog, I'm talking about). Some of you have gotten to see me vote, but that's all the information I have, which is frustrating. We've been hurtling toward a JR/Zolah vs Viking runoff since almost page 1 almost. I don't like how comfortable everyone seems to be with that. For these reasons, I'm going to vote Danbob.
Pablo > Danbob
Not because I think he's more suspicious than the other two, because he really isn't, but this gives us three re-voters and maybe will encourage some of the less active players to get involved.
On the other hand, I'm not going to be surprised if someone switches a vote to keep Viking in, and I won't necessarily blame anyone who does.
So if this runoff holds, and I have no reason to think it won't, it will be myself, JR, and ZIG voting for JR or Viking.
Pablo > JR
Why not allow that runoff to happen (and also get tainted's explanation) instead of forcing the moves early? If you think Danbob is most likely mafia of the three and prefer that he go forward, you've lowered the chances of that happening.
So if this runoff holds, and I have no reason to think it won't, it will be myself, JR, and ZIG voting for JR or Viking.
Pablo > JR
Why not allow that runoff to happen (and also get tainted's explanation) instead of forcing the moves early? If you think Danbob is most likely mafia of the three and prefer that he go forward, you've lowered the chances of that happening.
No moves have been forced. We have almost fourteen hours before the round ends. If anyone is thinking about moving to Dan, I can move back. I don't see it happening, though. I don't really know if anyone on JR or Viking is willing to move to Dan, because most of them haven't been speaking their minds, and one of the few who has is Dan.
So Danbob, I want to ask you the same question you asked me in reverse on JR. Why are you so intent on him? I have to say, in writing my response to you, you have been very intently focused on him for those 2 changes and haven't really built a supporting argument.
For reference, when I reread the thread, I actually do it 2 or 3x. I read the whole thread as it stands, then search out each player and read JUST their posts in sequence, then I will go back and reread portions that stand out to me again that stand out from exchanges.
In doing this preparing my response to you, I noticed you were not really building the argument, and drafting a lot on the heat already on JR, but intently focused on him making the runoff. Why were you so intent on him making it?
Not saying I think you are mafia, but admittedly, a few alarm bells were ringing.
Interesting. I feel as if zolah’s arguments with you added up more than JRs to mine.
The main reason I feel that JR should advance is because when I’ve been mafia with him he has had a tendency to bs his opening vote and then over compensate when called out. I see many parallels of that in this game. I remember one game we were Mafia and he pretended he did some random vote but the math didn’t add up. He was called out and it was an uphill battle after that. Not saying this makes him Mafia but I feel it’s enough that he should advance.
I frequently BS my opening vote. Jaz even called me an erratic player on page 8. I've fought uphill battles for trying to make D1R1 interesting as both mafia and town. IIRC, I've had more uphill D1 battles as town than mafia even.
Once again, I feel like your justification on me is designed to make me look shady, not meant to explain why I'm actually shady.
The reason I can't just outright say you're mafia is because people get so drastically tunnel visioned that it's hard to get a read on their true motivations. Are you garbage town right now or mafia with an agenda? It's hard to say.
How you're the one slipping out of this runoff when I've clearly shown that your posts are fluff and twisted is an oddity.
Maddog, does this answer your question on why I think Danbob should be in the runoff?
Interesting. I feel as if zolah’s arguments with you added up more than JRs to mine.
The main reason I feel that JR should advance is because when I’ve been mafia with him he has had a tendency to bs his opening vote and then over compensate when called out. I see many parallels of that in this game. I remember one game we were Mafia and he pretended he did some random vote but the math didn’t add up. He was called out and it was an uphill battle after that. Not saying this makes him Mafia but I feel it’s enough that he should advance.
I frequently BS my opening vote. Jaz even called me an erratic player on page 8. I've fought uphill battles for trying to make D1R1 interesting as both mafia and town. IIRC, I've had more uphill D1 battles as town than mafia even.
Once again, I feel like your justification on me is designed to make me look shady, not meant to explain why I'm actually shady.
The reason I can't just outright say you're mafia is because people get so drastically tunnel visioned that it's hard to get a read on their true motivations. Are you garbage town right now or mafia with an agenda? It's hard to say.
How you're the one slipping out of this runoff when I've clearly shown that your posts are fluff and twisted is an oddity.
Maddog, does this answer your question on why I think Danbob should be in the runoff?
If I were garbage town or Mafia trying to push an agenda wouldn’t I have to be calling you Mafia? I haven’t called you Mafia once. Ive outlines the reasons I think you should advance knowing full well it doesn’t mean you’re Mafia. I’ve said that over and over. this is the third time you’ve asked “Mafia or shitty town” and accusing me of tunnel vision yet you’re completely ok with your tunnel vision on me.
I frequently BS my opening vote. Jaz even called me an erratic player on page 8. I've fought uphill battles for trying to make D1R1 interesting as both mafia and town. IIRC, I've had more uphill D1 battles as town than mafia even.
Once again, I feel like your justification on me is designed to make me look shady, not meant to explain why I'm actually shady.
The reason I can't just outright say you're mafia is because people get so drastically tunnel visioned that it's hard to get a read on their true motivations. Are you garbage town right now or mafia with an agenda? It's hard to say.
How you're the one slipping out of this runoff when I've clearly shown that your posts are fluff and twisted is an oddity.
Maddog, does this answer your question on why I think Danbob should be in the runoff?
If I were garbage town or Mafia trying to push an agenda wouldn’t I have to be calling you Mafia? I haven’t called you Mafia once. Ive outlines the reasons I think you should advance knowing full well it doesn’t mean you’re Mafia. I’ve said that over and over. this is the third time you’ve asked “Mafia or shitty town” and accusing me of tunnel vision yet you’re completely ok with your tunnel vision on me.
I've been on the defense against you this whole game because of your tunnel vision, not mine.
I'm showing over and over how you're being dishonest. Yes, that's mafia or shitty town.
If I were garbage town or Mafia trying to push an agenda wouldn’t I have to be calling you Mafia? I haven’t called you Mafia once. Ive outlines the reasons I think you should advance knowing full well it doesn’t mean you’re Mafia. I’ve said that over and over. this is the third time you’ve asked “Mafia or shitty town” and accusing me of tunnel vision yet you’re completely ok with your tunnel vision on me.
I've been on the defense against you this whole game because of your tunnel vision, not mine.
I'm showing over and over how you're being dishonest. Yes, that's mafia or shitty town.
And the way things are going idk that it will change this round.
With that said, you looking to vote for Dan?
I feel like Viking maybe deserves the RO spot more than Dan, but zolahs really the only one who could come off and get the revotes I'd like to see, and based off their convo I'm not sure that happens.
Interesting. I feel as if zolah’s arguments with you added up more than JRs to mine.
The main reason I feel that JR should advance is because when I’ve been mafia with him he has had a tendency to bs his opening vote and then over compensate when called out. I see many parallels of that in this game. I remember one game we were Mafia and he pretended he did some random vote but the math didn’t add up. He was called out and it was an uphill battle after that. Not saying this makes him Mafia but I feel it’s enough that he should advance.
I frequently BS my opening vote. Jaz even called me an erratic player on page 8. I've fought uphill battles for trying to make D1R1 interesting as both mafia and town. IIRC, I've had more uphill D1 battles as town than mafia even.
Once again, I feel like your justification on me is designed to make me look shady, not meant to explain why I'm actually shady.
The reason I can't just outright say you're mafia is because people get so drastically tunnel visioned that it's hard to get a read on their true motivations. Are you garbage town right now or mafia with an agenda? It's hard to say.
How you're the one slipping out of this runoff when I've clearly shown that your posts are fluff and twisted is an oddity.
Maddog, does this answer your question on why I think Danbob should be in the runoff?
Do you have thoughts on anyone in the game not me Dan or Vikin? You're saying Dan slipped out but you aren't calling out anyone for doing so.
You also realize you can be on the defense while also looking at other players right? Yet you just focus on me the whole game.
Here you are doing exactly what I've been accusing you of. Making false claims about me. The three most active players are Viking, Maddog and you. I've interacted quite a bit with all 3. I haven't interacted much with the quieter players, but let's not go calling the kettle black. I'm not rereading, but I'm not recalling where you've done much of anything but make your typical fluff that does nothing for the game and telling half-truths about me.
You also realize you can be on the defense while also looking at other players right? Yet you just focus on me the whole game.
Here you are doing exactly what I've been accusing you of. Making false claims about me. The three most active players are Viking, Maddog and you. I've interacted quite a bit with all 3. I haven't interacted much with the quieter players, but let's not go calling the kettle black. I'm not rereading, but I'm not recalling where you've done much of anything but make your typical fluff that does nothing for the game and telling half-truths about me.
Actually after a reread your right. Thought your hissy fits were just because of me but it seems mad dog and Viking also helped.
You still haven’t answered my question. Am I Mafia or shitty town?
I frequently BS my opening vote. Jaz even called me an erratic player on page 8. I've fought uphill battles for trying to make D1R1 interesting as both mafia and town. IIRC, I've had more uphill D1 battles as town than mafia even.
Once again, I feel like your justification on me is designed to make me look shady, not meant to explain why I'm actually shady.
The reason I can't just outright say you're mafia is because people get so drastically tunnel visioned that it's hard to get a read on their true motivations. Are you garbage town right now or mafia with an agenda? It's hard to say.
How you're the one slipping out of this runoff when I've clearly shown that your posts are fluff and twisted is an oddity.
Maddog, does this answer your question on why I think Danbob should be in the runoff?
Do you have thoughts on anyone in the game not me Dan or Vikin? You're saying Dan slipped out but you aren't calling out anyone for doing so.
I don't have as much info as I'd like on other players, because I have been too defensive.
Potent's been linked with me, so with the choice of me, Viking or Dan, does that make him more likely town or mafia for voting for me to open the round? I tried to think through why he voted for me. Honestly, I think, regardless of his role, it makes sense to try to break a link with a guy in hot water. I do think stacking Dan makes more sense than stacking me if he's a townie though, if he's been keeping up with the feud.
I actually think Pablo's move makes sense to see how you and Viking react. It's also unlikely for mafia to make such a ballsy move. It feels town.
Zolah's been completely on the defensive. It's hard for me to judge her.
ZIG transparency about not being cleared speaks well of him, but he's truly 50/50.
I'll try to do more reading this afternoon as I haven't focused on the game as much as I've wanted to since Christmas Eve.
What are your thoughts on the runoff and why people have made the votes and/or comments they've made?
Here you are doing exactly what I've been accusing you of. Making false claims about me. The three most active players are Viking, Maddog and you. I've interacted quite a bit with all 3. I haven't interacted much with the quieter players, but let's not go calling the kettle black. I'm not rereading, but I'm not recalling where you've done much of anything but make your typical fluff that does nothing for the game and telling half-truths about me.
Actually after a reread your right. Thought your hissy fits were just because of me but it seems mad dog and Viking also helped.
You still haven’t answered my question. Am I Mafia or shitty town?
There are no hissy fits. Just me playing with you.
I don't know if you're mafia or shitty town. I'm leaning mafia, but just barely.
Although JR I would like to point out just because you also got pissy at mad dog doesn’t mean you don’t have tunnel vision on me. You say it’s reactionary but upon a reread this is simply not true.
I actually intended to move off Dan if he was still at 3 as I started catching up on the thread a few minutes ago. In fact, I think Dan has had enough attention for only 3 pages without actually standing out.
JR > Dan > Tainted
This is an interesting move. Not really sure what to think about it. On one hand JR could be a townie who just got pummeled for his opening vote. However, on the other hand it could be a mafia JR who is trying to backtrack from the heat he got. Not sure which one it is but it’s an interesting move none the less.
This is the post that triggered you off. Notice how it isn’t even an attack. I simply stated your move was interesting and you got super defensive and switched your vote back to me. You overreacted. Period. Stop playing the victim card.
The main thing that gives me pause with JR vs. Danbob is that they both tend to be more reserved than this when they're Mafia. I feel like it's unusual that either of them would go on the attack to this extent this early, given their respective playing styles.
I just did a reread. I have some non-Viking thoughts that will come next, but I can't help but see Viking still spinning. I posted his lies and he laughs and says that I proved his point (of me lying). He even said he would cite me when he got to a computer.
Yeap. I read the game once was 100% wrong. But i also bemoaned that no one was pushing. I don't mind sharing the entire message because I can own when I am wrong.
You are reaching Zolah. And you are trying to dance away from the fact that you are lying and spinning.
I could be 100% wrong here but I prefer working on a theory and picking at the lose threads to the WAG method.
The thing is, you are flat out lying this game. You are literally making up things I never said and stating them as fact. I'll cite everything when I get in front of my computer but there are few things that say mafia more than directly lying in thread.
But keep digging. It is giving me a chuckle.
I'm not reaching or lying. You lied and said that JR and I both kept bringing up the editing of the post. I brought it up once and wanted to state as such. In my original post it should have even been clear it was in between games because I stated I thought LD would copy and paste... Meaning the new game didn't start yet.
There were a couple rules that were officially added or re-added in mafia 101. I noticed they weren't on JR's game 109 so I did tell him to edit them because I thought LD would copy and paste and they'd be missing from here too. If you go back to mafia 108, you'll notice rules 15-17 are missing.
And yes. You did call me and JR mafia and said you leaned town on Zig.
I seem to have struck a nerve. Firstly, it was not a lie. You are the only one outside the 3 involved parties to reference it, and seemingly the most sensitive to it. Secondly, it is called a verbal trip; a phrase specifically design to elicit a response from a predetermined set in order to provide an indication of role. Third, please keep posting. I do find it quite quite illuminating. You would not be the first mafia woman to die in self righteous fury.
And finally, relates to your other post, if you are not rule breaking, then logically, it is option 1 and you are both mafia. So how about I "come at you" for That?
All 3 are good choices. Personally would prefer potent and tainted. They are quiet atm and for reasons I prefer not to share right now, I am leaning toward zig being town
Every time I post, you spin my words around and lie.
Well, I said back on page 2 I struck a nerve and apparently I was right.
Let me clear up more of Zolah's attempts at lying here:
I know a townie trying to win may seem bizarre to you but it use to happen a lot! I keep all 11 players on a spectrum and adjust them as the game goes on. That leads to:
I never directly said you are mafia. I asked a lot of questions, then posted a few theories which implies you were mafia but never said it directly.
The same goes for ZIG and his town status. And in that post i even said it was really early.
This is now the 3rd time you have tried to hide your lies in righteous anger. At this point, I would not eat any apples you offered me.
I'll lay out my thoughts in a bit. On my mobile atm.
In my last post, I quoted where you pretty much said exactly both of those things.
Pretty much exactly is not exactly. I told you 3 pages ago details matter. Trying to slide my statement to fit your narrative is in fact lying. And thank you for doing half the work citing things for me.
Where did I lie? I pointed out your lies. Several of them have been cited. You can laugh it off and call it me spinning, but it's clearly there in text.
Merry Christmas. I don’t have much new to add at the moment. I want to do a reread. I should have time later. I may have missed it in the Christmas shuffle of life, but I don’t think I’ve seen where Viking cited I’m lying. I cited his and he just says I proved his point? I’ve seen him beat down girls before. When I seen him sign up I already braced for it. Not sure if he finds us easy targets or what but he seems to have it all figured out. *eye roll*
I'll ask you a third time, Viking... Where have I lied?
I do feel like something weird was going on with Dan being bumped to 3 early on. Whether it was Tainted bumping him to 3 or Potent coming off of him, I don’t know, but I think it would be a good place to explore D2. They've also been fairly quiet this game.
I basically said that the move was interesting and I could see both townie and JR making the move. I don’t have feelings one way or the other right now, but it may be useful down the line. Don’t see why JR sees such a problem with it.
The problem is that we've played together like a dozen times and you find it "interesting" that I'm playing like I play pretty much every time I'm town. I open with a nonsense first vote, eventually switch my vote to someone else in the runoff or the most suspicious person to me at the moment with limited D1R1 knowledge, even if it means I get heat for it. And then the kicker... you say I vote swapped to avoid heat. D1R1 vote changes doesn't avoid heat, it attracts it.
JR > Dan > Tainted > Dan
Maybe I’m wrong, but I don't think you have played this way in a while. You used to, yes. You have also been in a mafia vs mafia fight with LD. I forget what game that was, but you two went at it back and forth and it was deemed that you two could not be mafia together.
