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I cannot see Hurray for the Riff Raff Outdoor, but I know Mikey had them there before. They don't have the billing or the popularity.
But tons of unpopular smaller bands end up opening outdoor. Knox Fortune, Magic Giant, and Sir Sly last year were billed super low. Same line as Hurray for the Riff Raff. Not terribly uncommon for the outdoor opener to play to 1,500 people. I just don't see Riff Raff as more likley for Sonora than Turnstile or U.S. Girls, personally. I buy the Yves Tumor Mojave/Gobi argument watching more live vids. Yves Tumor --> SOPHIE in Gobi closing against the headliner works.
Oh I could totally see them out of the Sonora and Turnstile in. I just think that Outdoor slot isn't the one for them. Especially if we have another female-fronted folk act doing it on Saturday too (Hop Along)
I feel like we are giving way too much credit to what bands "want". Ultimately Paul T is the decision maker, no? If he wants somebody in the Sahara that's where they are.
OK on to other things. Let's start nit picking undercard because it's more fun than continued debates on DJ Snake no? None of the below I'm 100% committed to, just trowing some ideas around to see if it gets us thinking about sets any differently.
MAYBE NOT SONORA: I have a VERY hard time seeing Still Woozy in the Sahara. Hurray for the Riff Raff could easily be outdoor early to me, Let's Eat Grandma also seems more flexible.
MAYBE SONORA: Turnstile seems like a cool closer but they are so perfectly suited to Sonora with regards to genre, popularity (streaming stats etc), billing. U.S. Girls I can totally see taking a slightly later Sonora slot than opening up a tent. They were critical darlings last year, sure they're billed low but I think that speaks to Sonora around 3:00-5:00 range rather than a tent at 1:00. Could Yves Tumor be Sonora?
JPEGMAFIA: I know it's rap vs. rap but if we want Turnstile in Sonora and we want something aggressive in a tent at night, this could be a fit. The live show looks like a mosh pit the entire time.
GOBI: Tomasa opening looks right.
OUTDOOR: Khruangbin as much as a lock as any band here. Rosalia I think could easily play Mojave around sunset after watching her stage show. Yes could work either way but seems more effective indoors? I really do not buy 88Glam opening up. Hurray for the Riff Raff I'm coming around to opening up instead. Mellow female folk tinged stuff, seems about par for the course no?
MAIN: A hot mess. When have we ever had a main stage that was only third line and up acts? Makes me positive Kacey is sunset outdoor and Ella Mai is elsewhere. Look at last Friday's main stage. Tucanes seem like a great fit for Azueles spot. But last year's main billing went (looking at lines) #6 --> #3 --> #5 --> #4 --> #2 --> #2 --> #2 --> #1. We have #3 --> #3 --> #3 --> #3 --> #2 --> #2 --> #1. There is NO way that's right. Other than Tucanes I think it's safe to assume we get four, at most, #3s/#2s/#1s. Who are they? Totally buy Paak. Duh Janelle. Duh Snake/1975. Duh Gambino. Kacey and Ella fit elsewhere really well, if not better. The only problem is I don't see a lot of bonafide main stage acts in the undercard...lots of whatever rap, cute indie pop/rock, electronic, and niche/darker stuff. Jaden Smith (gross)? Tierra Whack? Maybe Rosalia (I know I JUST said Mojave for her but this could also work) or Mon Laferte? Kero Kero Bonito maybe opening it up? Slightly weird choice but not a lot here that really works.
In a way, we sort of are giving too much credit to what certain acts want, but I do think the huge acts like Snake at least try and push for prime slots. Does it always work out in their favor? Obviously not, but there definitely are talks with artists mgmt regarding where/when they will play.
Still Woozy fits the Rex Orange County demo, who wound up in the Sonora last year. I'm not saying that's for sure where he goes, but the Sonora would be the best place for him to get a later set, which I think is what happens considering how much he's blown up since the lineup release. That said, if we do move Still Woozy out eventually, Turnstile should definitely go in their place. Yves in the Sonora would be really weird and there's no previous Sonora act to compare him to really.
I disagree with Khruangbin being a lock for the Outdoor, and Rosalia potentially going in the Mojve. Even though they've blown up a bit recently, the average Coachella attendee still doesn't know who they are, whereas many more of them WILL know Rosalia, who has blown the fuck up recently (she's headlining Primavera). I'm actually thinking about moving Jaden Smith to the Outdoor and Khruangbin to the Mojave. What's wrong with 88Glam opening the Outdoor? We had Stormy open the Outdoor at 3:00 in 2017.
Also disagree with the Main being a "hot mess". Last year only one Main Stage act a day was NOT on the 2nd or 3rd line. So maybe we can put an act or two somewhere on the Main one or two of these days, but to call it a hot mess is overselling it a bit. Benjamin Clementine was moved from one of the tents to the Main for Friday of Weekend 2, so he doesn't really count. And I definitely think moving a bonafide Outdoor/Main act elsewhere just to put a non 2nd or 3rd line act on the Main is doing us a disservice.
To be fair, the only reason Rex was in the Sonora was because he was a last minute add. I think he would have had Gobi or Mojave otherwise, a lot of people didn't even know he was playing. The only reason I found out is because I happened to look at the Sonora line up board when I left the Gobi. I didn't get the app notification for it. He still filled up the tent, if everyone knew he was playing it would have overflowed for sure. But as far as sound goes? Yeah Woozy's sound works well in the Sonora.
Khruangbin on the Outdoor would be just like Kamasi Washington on the Outdoor in 2016, his crowd was pretty small but the vibes were right. He wasn't super known then. Please keep Jaden in the Mojave, it's perfect for him.
KKB could open up Outdoor, pretty big fanbase, it would feel weird though.
To be fair, the only reason Rex was in the Sonora was because he was a last minute add. I think he would have had Gobi or Mojave otherwise, a lot of people didn't even know he was playing. The only reason I found out is because I happened to look at the Sonora line up board when I left the Gobi. I didn't get the app notification for it. He still filled up the tent, if everyone knew he was playing it would have overflowed for sure. But as far as sound goes? Yeah Woozy's sound works well in the Sonora.
Khruangbin on the Outdoor would be just like Kamasi Washington on the Outdoor in 2016, his crowd was pretty small but the vibes were right. He wasn't super known then. Please keep Jaden in the Mojave, it's perfect for him.
KKB could open up Outdoor, pretty big fanbase, it would feel weird though.
There's no reason why they couldn't have put ROC in the Mojave or Gobi though. We've had late adds, to both the poster and the set times, and ROC and TSOL are the only late adds to ever go in the Sonora.
Disagree with your Khruangbin/Kamasi comparison. In 2016 Kamasi was smaller than Khruangbin is now, and was billed a line lower. I'm not saying Khruangbin wont play the Outdoor (I mean, it is where I currently have them), but I definitely think Jaden Smith and Rosalia need more crowd space than Khruangbin does at Coachella in 2019.
KKB opening the Outdoor would be really fucking weird, and I think they're billed to high for it. I used to have them 2nd on the Outdoor, which I think could possibly work and would be an interesting slot for them, but I think a tent does seem a bit more likely.
Also, this is the first time I looked up how to pronounce Khruangbin. Apparently it's 'crun⟨g⟩-bin', when I was over here pronouncing it "crew-ANG-bin" this entire time. Also I fucking love these guys. Their set at Outside Lands in 2017 was incredible.
To be fair, the only reason Rex was in the Sonora was because he was a last minute add. I think he would have had Gobi or Mojave otherwise, a lot of people didn't even know he was playing. The only reason I found out is because I happened to look at the Sonora line up board when I left the Gobi. I didn't get the app notification for it. He still filled up the tent, if everyone knew he was playing it would have overflowed for sure. But as far as sound goes? Yeah Woozy's sound works well in the Sonora.
Khruangbin on the Outdoor would be just like Kamasi Washington on the Outdoor in 2016, his crowd was pretty small but the vibes were right. He wasn't super known then. Please keep Jaden in the Mojave, it's perfect for him.
KKB could open up Outdoor, pretty big fanbase, it would feel weird though.
There's no reason why they couldn't have put ROC in the Mojave or Gobi though. We've had late adds, to both the poster and the set times, and ROC and TSOL are the only late adds to ever go in the Sonora.
Disagree with your Khruangbin/Kamasi comparison. In 2016 Kamasi was smaller than Khruangbin is now, and was billed a line lower. I'm not saying Khruangbin wont play the Outdoor (I mean, it is where I currently have them), but I definitely think Jaden Smith and Rosalia need more crowd space than Khruangbin does at Coachella in 2019.
KKB opening the Outdoor would be really fucking weird, and I think they're billed to high for it. I used to have them 2nd on the Outdoor, which I think could possibly work and would be an interesting slot for them, but I think a tent does seem a bit more likely.
Also, this is the first time I looked up how to pronounce Khruangbin. Apparently it's 'crun⟨g⟩-bin', when I was over here pronouncing it "crew-ANG-bin" this entire time. Also I fucking love these guys. Their set at Outside Lands in 2017 was incredible.
Fair enough point, I do think ROC would have filled the Sonora to capacity if more people knew about him playing though, leaving people unable to enter.
Oh yeah, I agree with you on crowd size for sure. But Khruangbin definitely feels like they belong on the Outdoor. I hope they can come back in a year or two, when they're a bit bigger, and get bumped up to the sunset slot on the Outdoor. Like Kamasi did.
I feel like a lot of the Asian (and Hispanic) acts this year will get a crowd boost, similar to R&B acts getting crowd boosts due to Beyonce (and The Weeknd) being headliners. KKB is popular in their own right, but with BLACKPINK, Perfume, and such also being there, their crowd size swill all benefit from each other. But yeah as far as "vibe" goes they feel like a tent on a night slot.
strongly disagree. you can play an Outdoor type of stage at virtually any fest. There's very few stages in the world that compare to the Sahara production-wise. If I am a DJ, I'd 100% rather play the Sahara.
How many American majors that have a strong EDM presence have only stages that are outdoors? I can think of maybe 2.
I feel like I may be misunderstanding this question, because there's not a major festival in the U.S. where an act as big as DJ Snake can play under a tent that I can think of except Coachella's Sahara...
Roo went to Outdoor, Gov Ball is Outdoor, OSL is outdoor, ACL is outdoor, Firefly is outdoor, Ultra & EDC are outdoor for those size/type of acts.
Rosalia potentially going in the Mojve. Even though they've blown up a bit recently, the average Coachella attendee still doesn't know who they are, whereas many more of them WILL know Rosalia, who has blown the fuck up recently (she's headlining Primavera). I'm actually thinking about moving Jaden Smith to the Outdoor and Khruangbin to the Mojave. What's wrong with 88Glam opening the Outdoor? We had Stormy open the Outdoor at 3:00 in 2017.
To counter each of these points, not necessarily because I believe them to be 100% inevitable but because I think it's time to play devil's advocate with the undercard:
(1) Khruangbin - Not exactly an unknown band, 1.3M+ monthlies on Spotify with the #2 and #3 cities respectively being LA and NYC. They're billed for outdoor, could work there early soundwise and production wise, and it's not really all that different from slotting bands like King Gizzard, First Aid Kit, Chicano Batman, Whitney, Devendra Banhart, etc early on the outdoor.
(2) Rosalia - Yes she's blowing up but her main audience is still international. She's headlining Primavera because she's massive in Spain. She's from Spain, her biggest Spotify sources of listeners are from Barcelona and Madrid, I don't think you can look at Primavera headlining spot as some sort of clue as to where she'll land in the states. Kasabian headlined Glasto and played Mojave twice. Compare that to Mon Laferte who is similarly big internationally but is much more centered in Mexico (605K monthlies in MX City alone). I think Mon Laferte will have the bigger crowd at Coachella as she'll have more crossover with Bunny/Tucanes/J Balvin than Rosalia. For obvious reasons we have more people from Mexico than Spain, and Mexico influences California Latin music fans more than Spain does. Also Rosalia has a stage set up that would really shine in Mojave later, that hardly precludes her from playing outdoor but I think she may get headed for Tash Sultana treatment. Once again I think we are making a lot of bold claims about acts being too popular for Mojave slots which is aggressive. Rosalia can definitely play the Mojave.
(3) Jaden Smith - If you watch his Flog Gnaw set (I skimmed it) he has a ton of large visuals and video footage that would not be a great fit in the day. That's of course not to say that all acts get their full production at Coachella, but if Jaden Smith is Mojave at night during some run of 1975/Diplo/Snake/JUICE WRLD etc he can play Mojave crowd wise and it suits his show much better.
I am close to FroLem betting that Khruangbin, Mon Laferte, Kacey will be sunset late afternoon/sunset, and Rosalia and Jaden will be Mojave.
Rosalia potentially going in the Mojve. Even though they've blown up a bit recently, the average Coachella attendee still doesn't know who they are, whereas many more of them WILL know Rosalia, who has blown the fuck up recently (she's headlining Primavera). I'm actually thinking about moving Jaden Smith to the Outdoor and Khruangbin to the Mojave. What's wrong with 88Glam opening the Outdoor? We had Stormy open the Outdoor at 3:00 in 2017.
To counter each of these points, not necessarily because I believe them to be 100% inevitable but because I think it's time to play devil's advocate with the undercard:
(1) Khruangbin - Not exactly an unknown band, 1.3M+ monthlies on Spotify with the #2 and #3 cities respectively being LA and NYC. They're billed for outdoor, could work there early soundwise and production wise, and it's not really all that different from slotting bands like King Gizzard, First Aid Kit, Chicano Batman, Whitney, Devendra Banhart, etc early on the outdoor.
(2) Rosalia - Yes she's blowing up but her main audience is still international. She's headlining Primavera because she's massive in Spain. She's from Spain, her biggest Spotify sources of listeners are from Barcelona and Madrid, I don't think you can look at Primavera headlining spot as some sort of clue as to where she'll land in the states. Kasabian headlined Glasto and played Mojave twice. Compare that to Mon Laferte who is similarly big internationally but is much more centered in Mexico (605K monthlies in MX City alone). I think Mon Laferte will have the bigger crowd at Coachella as she'll have more crossover with Bunny/Tucanes/J Balvin than Rosalia. For obvious reasons we have more people from Mexico than Spain, and Mexico influences California Latin music fans more than Spain does. Also Rosalia has a stage set up that would really shine in Mojave later, that hardly precludes her from playing outdoor but I think she may get headed for Tash Sultana treatment. Once again I think we are making a lot of bold claims about acts being too popular for Mojave slots which is aggressive. Rosalia can definitely play the Mojave.
(3) Jaden Smith - If you watch his Flog Gnaw set (I skimmed it) he has a ton of large visuals and video footage that would not be a great fit in the day. That's of course not to say that all acts get their full production at Coachella, but if Jaden Smith is Mojave at night during some run of 1975/Diplo/Snake/JUICE WRLD etc he can play Mojave crowd wise and it suits his show much better.
I am close to FroLem betting that Khruangbin, Mon Laferte, Kacey will be sunset late afternoon/sunset, and Rosalia and Jaden will be Mojave.
1) Yes Khruangbin isn't "unknown" these days anymore, that's certainly not the argument, or I would have thrown them in the Gobi or Sonora. I'm not sure how you figure they're billed for Outdoor, when they have the exact billing of acts like Bleachers, FIDLAR, Alina Baraz last year. First Aid Kit is country/folk & Americana, Devendra is Latin Folk, and Chicano and Whitney were much smaller and billed way lower in their respective years. Hell, even the most comparable act here, King Gizzard, was billed two whole lines lower than Khruangbin is this year. And why would they give Khruangibn have the more prime Outdoor slot when it is just a fact that they will have a MUCH smaller crowd than both Jaden and Rosalia?
1+2) Rosalia and Jaden have way more monthly Spotify listeners than Khruangbin does. And even if the majority of Rosalia's fan base is from Spain/of Latin decent, there are going to be WAYYY more fans of Hispanic music at Coachella 2019 compared to chill psych/alt fans. I think even though Mon Laferte is from Mexico, Rosalia's star is rising much faster and I think she'll command the larger crowd in April.
3) Jaden Smith played a day set at both Lolla and Rolling Loud last year, and at this point I would absolutely bet he isn't going in the Mojave. He's gotta be Outdoor, or maybe even Main.
I'm definitely now willing to bet Khruangbin doesn't get a late afternoon Outdoor set, much less confident about Mon Laferte and Kacey. If people are really adamant about Kacey on the Outdoor over Main (which so far doen't appear to be the case) then we can maybe have Jaden where we have Kacey and have Kacey in the just before the sun sets Outdoor), but then we had Ella leading into Jaden which I can't see happening.
What I might do though is just switch Ella and Rosalia and then Jaden with Kacey. I feel like that could possibly work.
You're taking my Khruangbin comparison to those acts too literally. I'm saying that they are comfortable slotting prominent indie bands on the outdoor during the day regardless of whether or not they'd turn out a huge crowd. And the argument about popularity being a deciding factor of who they put on the outdoor vs whoever the hell they want/taking atmosphere into the equation is easily disproven. There were at least a dozen acts slotted to play last year that drew crowds far below the capacity for the stage, many of whom had crowds that barely hit the sound booth even in prime time.
Yes Jaden has played during the day. Jaden has also played during the night.
That's his tour production. If assuming that he'd rather have his production than not, it's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that him playing a big stage during the day is not a foregone conclusion.
We're focusing wayyyy too much on popularity. We don't have a single act below the 3rd line on main stage, where we had The Neighbourhood and SuperDuperKyle on main last Friday, and Benjamin Clementine on the main W2. We have no third liners anywhere other than outdoor/main, when we had Soulwax and Jamiroquai in the Mojave last Friday. We are assuming that "popular" fourth liners cannot play the Mojave like Jaden Smith, when Tash Sultana, BROCKHAMPTON, and Greta Van Fleet (probably the three most buzzed about undercard names) were slotted in the Mojave. Last year definitely saw a trend to put more third liners on the main/outdoor than ever before and so I think it's OK to assume that will continue, but even with that trend, without having a single 2nd/3rd liner in the Mojave or any 4th or below acts on the main...it just doesn't look realistic.
I'm simply trying out some arguments so that we can have a slightly more balanced layout compared to what we have. And I've also said I don't think any of these are 100% definite. And so I'm open to other suggestions on how to get some third liners elsewhere and some 4th liners on the main. We only need like two third-and-up in the Mojave (Soulwax/Jamiroquai, 6lack/King Krule, Angel Olsen/Jungle) and like one 4th or below liner on the main (Neighborhood/SDK, Lion Babe, Wizkid) if they're doing it like last year. If they're doing it like 2017 then we're more off. That's not outrageous to suggest.
You're taking my Khruangbin comparison to those acts too literally. I'm saying that they are comfortable slotting prominent indie bands on the outdoor during the day regardless of whether or not they'd turn out a huge crowd. And the argument about popularity being a deciding factor of who they put on the outdoor vs whoever the hell they want/taking atmosphere into the equation is easily disproven. There were at least a dozen acts slotted to play last year that drew crowds far below the capacity for the stage, many of whom had crowds that barely hit the sound booth even in prime time.
Yes Jaden has played during the day. Jaden has also played during the night.
That's his tour production. If assuming that he'd rather have his production than not, it's not entirely unreasonable to suggest that him playing a big stage during the day is not a foregone conclusion.
We're focusing wayyyy too much on popularity. We don't have a single act below the 3rd line on main stage, where we had The Neighbourhood and SuperDuperKyle on main last Friday, and Benjamin Clementine on the main W2. We have no third liners anywhere other than outdoor/main, when we had Soulwax and Jamiroquai in the Mojave last Friday. We are assuming that "popular" fourth liners cannot play the Mojave like Jaden Smith, when Tash Sultana, BROCKHAMPTON, and Greta Van Fleet (probably the three most buzzed about undercard names) were slotted in the Mojave. Last year definitely saw a trend to put more third liners on the main/outdoor than ever before and so I think it's OK to assume that will continue, but even with that trend, without having a single 2nd/3rd liner in the Mojave or any 4th or below acts on the main...it just doesn't look realistic.
I'm simply trying out some arguments so that we can have a slightly more balanced layout compared to what we have. And I've also said I don't think any of these are 100% definite. And so I'm open to other suggestions on how to get some third liners elsewhere and some 4th liners on the main. We only need like two third-and-up in the Mojave (Soulwax/Jamiroquai, 6lack/King Krule, Angel Olsen/Jungle) and like one 4th or below liner on the main (Neighborhood/SDK, Lion Babe, Wizkid) if they're doing it like last year. If they're doing it like 2017 then we're more off. That's not outrageous to suggest.
1. Okay, but all of those names you listed to compare Khruangbin to were either billed much lower or with almost entirely different fan bases, so none of them really are apt comparisons. Khruangbin is listed to high to play at the same time as those lower listed acts from previous years, but it's high enough to command a really prime Outdoor slot over acts like Rosalia and Jaden.
2. Yes, of course Jaden plays his solo venue shows at night, but that's 3 festivals (Lolla, Rolling Loud, Flog Gnaw) last year that had him listed for an outdoor stage instead of a tent, and I think there's absolutely a reason for that. The other video at night you posted was indoors, but not a festival. I'm not saying that a big stage during the day is a foregone conclusion, but I am saying I would 100% bet he isn't placed in a tent. There's no reason to have him in one when we can easily have him on the Outdoor instead. It'd be one thing if the Outdoor/Main were SUPER locked up with acts we couldn't move anywhere else like last year, but that isn't the case on this day.
3. What about the current mock is unbalanced exactly? Of course we have a whole bunch of things wrong per usual, but I don't see anything that looks particularly or noticeably "unbalanced". Trust me, I want to make them as balanced as you do, but I don't see how they are as unbalanced as you're claiming. Plus, moving Jaden Smith to the Main like I suggested in my last post actually fixes your issue of the Main only having 2nd and 3rd line acts.
3. What about the current mock is unbalanced exactly? Of course we have a whole bunch of things wrong per usual, but I don't see anything that looks particularly or noticeably "unbalanced". Trust me, I want to make them as balanced as you do, but I don't see how they are as unbalanced as you're claiming. Plus, moving Jaden Smith to the Main like I suggested in my last post actually fixes your issue of the Main only having 2nd and 3rd line acts.
We just disagree about Khruangbin so that's fine. What's unbalanced is what I mentioned...even for the most heavy "big names on the big stages" days of recent memory, there should still be at least 1-2 4th and below line acts on the main and 2+ third (and sometimes second) line acts in the Mojave. And less empirically, some "big" fourth liners will end up in the Mojave too. But we have 0 4th and below acts on main and 0 third/second line (in order likeliness) acts in the main, and our "buzz" fourth liners (Jaden and Rosalia) are all out of Mojave also.
Jaden on main is a great start then. I am even willing to concede just one third liner in the Mojave since there are fewer third liners on this day due to long names (5 vs 7 for the other days) but if we bump Jaden/Fisher up to third line equivalents to match the other days, the point should still stand somewhat that 2 or so of these names are likely to be in Mojave: Paak/Kacey/JUICE WRLD/Ella Mai/Tucanes/Fisher/Jaden. Fisher is obviously out (Sahara), Paak and Kacey seem unlikely, Tucanes we're making an assumption based on LAA which is only one data point but is probably a fair assumption to make, which leaves us with JUICE WLRD, Ella, Jaden. Ella seems most likely to be Mojave bound out of those three, and so if we're aiming for accuracy I guess it'd come down to JUICE/Jaden? Or at least Rosalia who would jussssst be off the third line.
But having all those acts out of the Mojave? It just hasn't happened recently even in the craziest overloaded main/outdoor days. We're not terribly far off from balanced, just a few names.
So what's unbalanced is that if we're breaking with the most conservative assumptions, then we have some very big acts wrong and when we have big acts wrong, other wonky stuff starts to happen.
And one more point with regards to Jaden playing solely outdoor stages at those three fests...correct me if I'm wrong, but was under the impression that Camp Flog Gnaw, Rolling Loud, and Lolla ONLY have stages and not tents like Roo/Coachella?
Not to mention that RL and Lolla shut down by 10:00?
So this is the CHVRCHES problem again...we can't say "Oh Jaden only played outdoor stages so he's outdoor at Coachella" when those fests only have outdoor stages, and we also can't make the assumption that if he's day in one fest that he'd be day in Coachella, especially when Coachella, once again, has three extra hours of night compared to RL and Lolla, and additional darkness in general given that Lolla is in summer and thus has less darkness even if times of fest were identical.
And one more point with regards to Jaden playing solely outdoor stages at those three fests...correct me if I'm wrong, but was under the impression that Camp Flog Gnaw, Rolling Loud, and Lolla ONLY have stages and not tents like Roo/Coachella?
Not to mention that RL and Lolla shut down by 10:00?
So this is the CHVRCHES problem again...we can't say "Oh Jaden only played outdoor stages so he's outdoor at Coachella" when those fests only have outdoor stages, and we also can't make the assumption that if he's day in one fest that he'd be day in Coachella, especially when Coachella, once again, has three extra hours of night compared to RL and Lolla, and additional darkness in general given that Lolla is in summer and thus has less darkness even if times of fest were identical.
My main argument for Jaden, which is different than my CHVRCHES one entirely, isn't that he needs to be outside because of his show, it's because of his crowd. He's going to have one of the biggest crowds on Friday, and putting him in a tent would be actually dangerous. Again, if there were acts on this day who NEED an Outdoor or Main slot, I'd agree with you more, but there's just no reason why Khruangbin should get the bigger crowd space while Jaden gets relegated to a tent.
You're right about the Outdoor festival stages thing though. I thought Perry's at Lolla was indoors, but I was wrong.
Yeah so I'm cool with Jaden on the main, but then we should put Ella in Mojave. I'm just saying that *somebody* on the third line is going to end up in the Mojave statistically. I mean statistically it's two, but even one would shut me up.
Yeah so I'm cool with Jaden on the main, but then we should put Ella in Mojave. I'm just saying that *somebody* on the third line is going to end up in the Mojave statistically. I mean statistically it's two, but even one would shut me up.
I don't agree, but I'll see what I can do when I work on these more later tonight.
Yeah so I'm cool with Jaden on the main, but then we should put Ella in Mojave. I'm just saying that *somebody* on the third line is going to end up in the Mojave statistically. I mean statistically it's two, but even one would shut me up.
I don't agree, but I'll see what I can do when I work on these more later tonight.
Then it doesn't have to be Ella. But since we shifted toward multiple second liners beyond just two in 2011, we've only had one day ever (Saturday 2012) where a second or third liner was not in the Mojave, and on that day there *was* a third liner in the Gobi. And now we have a bigger Mojave than ever before. Somebody will be there.
I don't agree, but I'll see what I can do when I work on these more later tonight.
Then it doesn't have to be Ella. But since we shifted toward multiple second liners beyond just two in 2011, we've only had one day ever (Saturday 2012) where a second or third liner was not in the Mojave, and on that day there *was* a third liner in the Gobi. And now we have a bigger Mojave than ever before. Somebody will be there.
It's just that nobody on the 3rd line on this day makes sense for the Mojave. I think the fact that there are, so you've mentioned, only 5 names on the 3rd line, compared to usually 7 or 8, means that it's not that crazy for Friday this year to not have a 2nd or 3rd line act in there.
It's just that nobody on the 3rd line on this day makes sense for the Mojave. I think the fact that there are, so you've mentioned, only 5 names on the 3rd line, compared to usually 7 or 8, means that it's not that crazy for Friday this year to not have a 2nd or 3rd line act in there.
And I see your point and even brought it up myself, but even if we stretch our third line to 9 names, we'd still only have *one* name (Nina Kraviz) in the Mojave. FISHER Sahara, Jaden and Rosalia we're saying are too big for Mojave.
I really don't see how Rosalia would be more popular than Tash Sultana by April, so I can see Mojave for her.
Jaden Smith wouldn't necessarily overflow Mojave to unhealthy degrees if we had him where Mon Laferte is (against The 1975, Diplo, Janelle Monae).
Still think Ella can land Mojave. Uchis/Caesar suggest she'd be outdoor, but if we're prioritizing other acts then it makes sense for her to go elsewhere, and plenty of R&B acts played tents too.
And we don't need all of them.
But if you disagree hey it's your show.
EDITED: And why are we saying Paul T watches this show (, ) and says, "yeah outdoor in the blazing sun let's do it!".
As opposed to something much simpler production wise, like or ?
It's just that nobody on the 3rd line on this day makes sense for the Mojave. I think the fact that there are, so you've mentioned, only 5 names on the 3rd line, compared to usually 7 or 8, means that it's not that crazy for Friday this year to not have a 2nd or 3rd line act in there.
I really don't see how Rosalia would be more popular than Tash Sultana by April, so I can see Mojave for her.
Still think Ella can land Mojave. Uchis/Caesar suggest she'd be outdoor, but if we're prioritizing other acts then it makes sense for her to go elsewhere, and plenty of R&B acts played tents too.
And we don't need all of them.
But if you disagree hey it's your show.
EDITED: And why are we saying Paul T watches this show (, ) and says, "yeah outdoor in the blazing sun let's do it!".
As opposed to something much simpler production wise, like or ?
I could be wrong, but I do think Rosalia now is bigger than Tash was by April last year.
I see no reason to prioritize an act based on which line they are on the poster over how big their crowd will be. Ella Mai is MUCH bigger and listed way higher than any R&B acts who played a tent last year.
Personally I have no problem switching Mon Laferte and Rosalia, but people do seem to think Rosalia will pull a massive crowd at Coachella, and I think I agree.
I don't see your point with the Khruangbin video. In the video you posted they're playing in a tent at an even smaller festival. Again, I love Khruangbin, but there is zero reason to put them on the Outdoor over acts who will have larger crowds.
Post by gibsonguy20 on Feb 18, 2019 21:11:19 GMT -5
I definitely think Rosalia and Jaden Smith can fit in the Mojave. Especially if either plays at night, as they'll obviously have strong counter programming. The Mojave tent is huge guys. That isn't to say that they have to go there, but I don't think we should be concerned with either of them over flowing the Mojave during the evening hours. I have to assume BROCKHAMPTON is bigger than both of them, and I had plenty of room in the Mojave during BROCKHAMPTON last year W2. What's weird is for whatever reason I also see Khruangbin landing on the Outdoor, but I definitely won't be surprised to see them in the Gobi.
Jaden's crowd won't be that big guys. If Flatbush Zombies and Amine worked in the Mojave, then so will Jaden. It won't be as big as say a BROCKHAMPTON's last year.
I'm just going to assume that all of the Hispanic acts will have a pretty good sized crowds just by the volume of Hispanic acts we have this year.
- Let's Eat Grandma and U.S. Girls, U.S. Girls billed super low but was a critical darling last year and seems like far more of a Sonora act than poppier Let's Eat Grandma.
- Rosalia and Gorgon City (as Ari mentioned on Reddit, Gorgon City and Rufus share the exact same fanbase, and Rosalia and Janelle are not quite as severe of an overlap but separating two women with complex stage productions is probably helpful too.
I still totally disagree about Kacey off outdoor and The 1975 off main, but there's at least some degree of board consensus on that so we can keep it. (And I'll just smirk in glee come set time drop).
Other than that the stages are starting too look more balanced billing wise and Rosalia's show will do far better in a tent so I am pleased.
- Let's Eat Grandma and U.S. Girls, U.S. Girls billed super low but was a critical darling last year and seems like far more of a Sonora act than poppier Let's Eat Grandma.
- Rosalia and Gorgon City (as Ari mentioned on Reddit, Gorgon City and Rufus share the exact same fanbase, and Rosalia and Janelle are not quite as severe of an overlap but separating two women with complex stage productions is probably helpful too.
I still totally disagree about Kacey off outdoor and The 1975 off main, but there's at least some degree of board consensus on that so we can keep it. (And I'll just smirk in glee come set time drop).
Other than that the stages are starting too look more balanced billing wise and Rosalia's show will do far better in a tent so I am pleased.
- Done
- Done
- Who all do you see on Main and Outdoor on this day and in what order?
- I now agree with Rosalia being fine in the Mojave, especially if she's where he have her, which is against the gauntlet of DJ Snake, Rufus and JuiceWRLD.
- Who all do you see on Main and Outdoor on this day and in what order?
- I now agree with Rosalia being fine in the Mojave, especially if she's where he have her, which is against the gauntlet of DJ Snake, Rufus and JuiceWRLD.
Main and outdoor are so weird. We have almost no main/outdoor "obvious" bands on the undercard. So much niche stuff.
I actually like your edits A LOT. I hadn't considered Mon for main but she's big and there's another 4th billed band, so with her/Jaden the main is starting to look better billed.
Kacey sunset so I'm happy LOL.
Beach Fossils totally plausible.
Maybe it would work best to say who will NOT play Outdoor/Main that we have in Gobi/Mojave because there are so many obvious "no's": Yves, Kraviz, Ross, Charlotte, Polo & Pan, SG Lewis, Tomasa, Calypso Rose (confirmed Gobi), SOPHIE, Gorgon City, dvsn, Rosalia (because I think her Mojave spot looks spot on)
So that would be "maybe": King Princess, JPEGMAFIA, Tierra Whack, Khruangbin, KKB, Let's Eat Grandma, Hurray for the Riff Raff
And even with those maybes, there are still a lot of "ehhhh" factors...with the first three, I think KP and JPEG are in tents even if they *could* play main/outdoor, and Tierra Whack is a wildcard because she had Grammy noms but she *also* put out an album entirely comprised of one minute songs so that's pretty fucking weird to put on the big stages. KKB is fun and cutesy and so could be outside but also a tent.
So other than you you have, I'd say the most likely acts are Khruangin, LEG, and HFTRR, and I can really only see those three on the outdoor.
And unlike our other days, our Sahara this day is almost exclusively electronic other than JUICE WLRD who could theoretically land outside.
Which leads me to think that our only viable contenders for the main we already have there, or they're currently on the outdoor.
So main stage contenders: Gambino, Janelle, The 1975, DJ Snake, BLACKPINK, Paak, Kacey, Ella, Jaden, Mon Laferte, Tucanes, I suppose we'd have to say 88Glam, JUICE WLRD.
Outdoor contenders: The 1975, DJ Snake, BLACKPINK, Paak, Kacey, Ella, Jaden, Mon Laferte, Tucanes, 88Glam, Beach Fossils, Khruangbin, Let's Eat Grandma, Riff Raff, JUICE WLRD, and let's say Diplo just for fun.
That's a pretty small list with a lot of crossover. I think we're going to nail the acts on those two stages pretty close to 100%, just that some acts might be on the wrong stage.
EDIT: One weird suggestion that I still think is far from likely is perhaps Gorgon City gets Clean Bandit treatment and is on the main early for no fucking reason whatsoever. They don't have the Clean Bandit hit though.
Ella Mai and dvsn conflict will NOT happen. You have them starting 10 minutes apart from each other lol. If BLACKPINK wants more darkness, they could swap with Anderson .Paak Not sure Jaden warrants the Main Stage. Otherwise seems good to me.
- Who all do you see on Main and Outdoor on this day and in what order?
- I now agree with Rosalia being fine in the Mojave, especially if she's where he have her, which is against the gauntlet of DJ Snake, Rufus and JuiceWRLD.
1) unlike our other days, our Sahara this day is almost exclusively electronic other than JUICE WLRD who could theoretically land outside.
2) That's a pretty small list with a lot of crossover. I think we're going to nail the acts on those two stages pretty close to 100%, just that some acts might be on the wrong stage.
3) EDIT: One weird suggestion that I still think is far from likely is perhaps Gorgon City gets Clean Bandit treatment and is on the main early for no fucking reason whatsoever. They don't have the Clean Bandit hit though.
1) Yeah, JuiceWRLD could be somewhere else, but I think moving him out and having a day full of just EDM would actually be weird at this point lol.
2) Agreed.
3) Highly highly doubt Gorgon gets Main Stage. As you said, Clean Bandit had one huge radio hit, and one or two other huge songs when they played the Main. Gorgon hasn't done anything near that to warrant Main Stage treatment in 2019.
