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And? Everyone who had the ability to fight the NFL won their cases. You can’t leave that out.
Did the New Orleans Saints coaching staff encourage players to injure opposing players for monetary gain, yes or no
I have no idea nor does anyone else on this site. We know that Gregg Williams was accused of that and Coach Payton was accused of being told previously to stop it and allegedly didn't all while the NFL was trying to fight off the first wave of CTE lawsuits. The players (Vilma, Fujita and Hargrove) all went to court and all won and had their suspensions and penalties overturned. The coaches and administrators were operating under a different agreement where the Commissioner is arbitrator and judge and had no legal avenue to fight the accusations. The penalties were harsher than all other penalties combined that were handed down by the NFL against any teams ever for "cheating." Whether bounties, which allegedly every team had a version of, are considered cheating, it is a little different than spy gate and deflate gate where there was obvious tampering with the integrity of the game.
You can't equate the two as equal any more than Kanye West can say something as patently false (and get like from others who should probably watch and know more football) as there shouldn't be a 2-2 team who lost their QB as the #3 team in the league, where there were no 2-2 teams included in my Top 5 at all.
Heading into this past week's games, Odds Shark has the teams most likely to win the super bowl as follows:
New England +333 Kansas City + 550 Los Angeles Rams +800 Cowboys +1000 Packers +1200 Bears+1400 Saints+1600 49ers +2000
You have to assume that the Cowboys, Rams and Pack might have fallen off after Week 4 games. That likely puts the Saints either 3 or 4. Take your pick. I went with 3 based on the fact that Brees isn't out for the season, and we had been the #3 pick by oddsmakers on almost all the reputable sites heading into the season.
Did the New Orleans Saints coaching staff encourage players to injure opposing players for monetary gain, yes or no
I have no idea nor does anyone else on this site. We know that Gregg Williams was accused of that and Coach Payton was accused of being told previously to stop it and allegedly didn't all while the NFL was trying to fight off the first wave of CTE lawsuits. The players (Vilma, Fujita and Hargrove) all went to court and all won and had their suspensions and penalties overturned. The coaches and administrators were operating under a different agreement where the Commissioner is arbitrator and judge and had no legal avenue to fight the accusations. The penalties were harsher than all other penalties combined that were handed down by the NFL against any teams ever for "cheating." Whether bounties, which allegedly every team had a version of, are considered cheating is a little different than spy gate and deflate gate where there was obvious tampering with the integrity of the game.
You can't equate the two as equal any more than Kanye West can say something as patently false (and get like from others who should probably watch and know more football) as there shouldn't be a 2-2 team who lost their QB as the #3 team in the league, where there were no 2-2 teams included in my Top 5 at all.
Heading into this past week's games, Odds Shark has the teams most likely to win the super bowl as follows:
New England +333 Kansas City + 550 Los Angeles Rams +800 Cowboys +1000 Packers +1200 Bears+1400 Saints+1600 49ers +2000
You have to assume that the Cowboys, Rams and Pack might have fallen off after Week 4 games. That likely puts the Saints either 3 or 4. Take your pick. I went with 3 based on the fact that Brees isn't out for the season, and we had been the #3 pick by oddsmakers on almost all the reputable sites heading into the season.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 30, 2019 15:17:04 GMT -5
"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore's head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways."
"Kill the head and the body will die. Kill the head and the body will die."
"We hit fuckin' Smith right there"—[points to chin]–-'remember me.' I got the first one. I got the first one.—[rubs fingers together indicating cash]—Go lay that mother fucker out."
"Every single one of you, before you get off the pile, affect the head. Early, affect the head. Continue to touch and affect the head."
"We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to fuckin' put a lick on him."
I have no idea nor does anyone else on this site. We know that Gregg Williams was accused of that and Coach Payton was accused of being told previously to stop it and allegedly didn't all while the NFL was trying to fight off the first wave of CTE lawsuits. The players (Vilma, Fujita and Hargrove) all went to court and all won and had their suspensions and penalties overturned. The coaches and administrators were operating under a different agreement where the Commissioner is arbitrator and judge and had no legal avenue to fight the accusations. The penalties were harsher than all other penalties combined that were handed down by the NFL against any teams ever for "cheating." Whether bounties, which allegedly every team had a version of, are considered cheating is a little different than spy gate and deflate gate where there was obvious tampering with the integrity of the game.
You can't equate the two as equal any more than Kanye West can say something as patently false (and get like from others who should probably watch and know more football) as there shouldn't be a 2-2 team who lost their QB as the #3 team in the league, where there were no 2-2 teams included in my Top 5 at all.
Heading into this past week's games, Odds Shark has the teams most likely to win the super bowl as follows:
New England +333 Kansas City + 550 Los Angeles Rams +800 Cowboys +1000 Packers +1200 Bears+1400 Saints+1600 49ers +2000
You have to assume that the Cowboys, Rams and Pack might have fallen off after Week 4 games. That likely puts the Saints either 3 or 4. Take your pick. I went with 3 based on the fact that Brees isn't out for the season, and we had been the #3 pick by oddsmakers on almost all the reputable sites heading into the season.
Sir, yes or no
That's a bullshit question that no one here has an answer to. True or false?
"We've got to do everything in the world to make sure we kill Frank Gore's head. We want him running sideways. We want his head sideways."
"Kill the head and the body will die. Kill the head and the body will die."
"We hit fuckin' Smith right there"—[points to chin]–-'remember me.' I got the first one. I got the first one.—[rubs fingers together indicating cash]—Go lay that mother fucker out."
"Every single one of you, before you get off the pile, affect the head. Early, affect the head. Continue to touch and affect the head."
"We need to find out in the first two series of the game, the little wide receiver, No. 10, about his concussion. We need to fuckin' put a lick on him."
Yes, yes, very ambiguous. Who really knows!
Dude,
That's what football used to be about. Never a 49ers game went by in the 1980's that Rickey Jackson and Pat Swilling weren't talking about taking out Montana or Young the week leading up to the game - in public, in the press. It's old school kick your ass football. We fired Williams beyond the suspension. But he's a coach. In context of the 1970's, 1980's and 1990's, he's saying what every other coach was saying. By the end of the last decade when it was clear that CTE suits were going to gain merit, it became something else. No longer were you supposed to be targeting players for taking them out of games. But it's not like it's some brand new thing. He may be an asshole intent on injuring motherfuckers. I think OBJ said as much last week when the Browns faced him. Maybe he still is that way, I don't know. It doesn't mean it's cheating.
Post by piggy pablo on Sept 30, 2019 15:29:15 GMT -5
It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life. It is also against the rules to target players' heads, so that part of it is essentially cheating, also. I get that football is like that and probably shouldn't even exist, but that was cheating and is far more problematic on an ethical level than recording another team's practice, which is also something probably every team does or tries to do.
Hopkins with the bitch move. He didn’t like getting bucked back. I guess it’s hard when you know you are playing against the best mf receiver in the game today and you wanna be that. Punk ass bitch
Post by JustKillingTime on Sept 30, 2019 15:32:51 GMT -5
can anyone explain why the seahawks have such poor odds? +3400 for the super bowl and +1400 for the NFC championship. They were my dark horse pick before the season, maybe I should actually throw some money on them.
Hopkins with the bitch move. He didn’t like getting bucked back. I guess it’s hard when you know you are playing against the best mf receiver in the game today and you wanna be that. Punk ass bitch
It’s just the game!!!!
False equivalent. If you want to call Darren Sharper an asshole for taking cheap shots on Brett Farve after the whistle, I'd probably agree. He's from an earlier era where people played just past the whistle. Former Saint and Ram Kyle Turley who suffers from a bad case of CTE said that was the game. That's early 2000's players. CTE suits were 2009 - where the NFL was denying any wrongdoing - until the settlement which was like 2012 then finalized a few years later.
Don't talk about 2019 as if it is the same as 10 years ago.
can anyone explain why the seahawks have such poor odds? +3400 for the super bowl and +1400 for the NFC championship. They were my dark horse pick before the season, maybe I should actually throw some money on them.
No I can't. That almost looks like a value pick there. Maybe the assumption is that they'd be wildcard at best with the Rams and 49ers in the division. But in my mind, the Seahawks are a team that should be taken seriously.
It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life. It is also against the rules to target players' heads, so that part of it is essentially cheating, also. I get that football is like that and probably shouldn't even exist, but that was cheating and is far more problematic on an ethical level than recording another team's practice, which is also something probably every team does or tries to do.
Was it cheating in 2008 or 2009 or whenever that was from? You know, back when the NFL denied any lasting influences from repeated concussions? No. The NFL made an example of a team as they squirmed their way through the stages of denial into accepting science.
It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life. It is also against the rules to target players' heads, so that part of it is essentially cheating, also. I get that football is like that and probably shouldn't even exist, but that was cheating and is far more problematic on an ethical level than recording another team's practice, which is also something probably every team does or tries to do.
Was it cheating in 2008 or 2009 or whenever that was from? You know, back when the NFL denied any lasting influences from repeated concussions? No. The NFL made an example of a team as they squirmed their way through the stages of denial into accepting science.
Dude Spygate wasn't against the rules when it happened either.
False equivalent. If you want to call Darren Sharper an asshole for taking cheap shots on Brett Farve after the whistle, I'd probably agree. He's from an earlier era where people played just past the whistle. Former Saint and Ram Kyle Turley who suffers from a bad case of CTE said that was the game. That's early 2000's players. CTE suits were 2009 - where the NFL was denying any wrongdoing - until the settlement which was like 2012 then finalized a few years later.
Don't talk about 2019 as if it is the same as 10 years ago.
Pretty much everyone at the time agreed that it was an awful thing.
It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life. It is also against the rules to target players' heads, so that part of it is essentially cheating, also. I get that football is like that and probably shouldn't even exist, but that was cheating and is far more problematic on an ethical level than recording another team's practice, which is also something probably every team does or tries to do.
Was it cheating in 2008 or 2009 or whenever that was from? You know, back when the NFL denied any lasting influences from repeated concussions? No. The NFL made an example of a team as they squirmed their way through the stages of denial into accepting science.
"It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life."
Was it cheating in 2008 or 2009 or whenever that was from? You know, back when the NFL denied any lasting influences from repeated concussions? No. The NFL made an example of a team as they squirmed their way through the stages of denial into accepting science.
"It's cheating to give money to players outside of the salary cap and it is morally repugnant to do so on the basis of giving people head injuries that affect them for the rest of their life."
Forget moral repugnance. That’s not the question. It wasn’t even established then. If having a kitty, side bet or pool for any purpose is what you would equate with stealing another team’s game plan or tampering with equipment - which was the premise of the argument - then there isn’t a thing else anyone else can say. I happen to disagree
Ok so now that we’ve established that football is a tough game and it’s just how it’s played, why is Burficts hit bad?
I missed this. Would it not already have occurred to you that it’s 2019 and science trumped the NFL?
You keep bringing this point up but it’s not really what we’re talking about. You MIGHT be able to argue this point if the Saints were just training their players to make hard and dirty hits, but they were knowingly hurting those players. That was the entire premise of the scheme.
No. That’s in your head. If you read back through the thread, you should be able to piece it together instead of doing side arguments. I called out Burfict’s hit and compared it to the one on Allen also from yesterday which Coach McDermott said there was no place for in football. I personally didn’t think it was as intentional or cheap of a shot as Burfict took. It opened up an easy alley to get a troll shot in on Pats fans. LD bit and said gtfo which I thought was funny. I responded and Kanye who had already fucked up once (and got likes from others who obviously didn’t know any better either) at trying to call my idea for who I thought was the 3rd best team in the league decided to pile on with equating bounty gate to patriots level of cheating. That became a topic in itself which I didn’t defend. But I did say more than once that it happened in 2008 and 2009 when CTE was only a theory and being portrayed by the NFL as greedy ex players on the take for lifetime healthcare. That changed when the overwhelming scientific evidence pointed to the fact that repeated head trauma and concussions were having dangerous effects on people. It’s now 2019. We know better. A head shot at this point is known to be fucked.
What is this "Who could possibly have known that hitting people really hard in the head is bad in the magical long-ago time of 2009" nonsense?
Embarrassing display
No, embarrassing is the level of football intelligence and selective reading that goes on in this thread. Apparently realizing there might be something to the ex players lawsuit, NFL was denying any culpability and worked the angle at the Saints to prove how serious they were about head injuries. It was every day news here, so forgive me if I followed the shit play out directly instead of showing up to try to land a cheap shot.
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