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Newsome if for no other reason he is good looking and not obscenely old, and people vote based on that. Plus he's a white man and moderates love that. He seems establishment enough for the DNC too
Newsome too vulnerable. Mainstream media narrative is that California is a god forsaken wasteland that people are desperately moving away from. Doesn't matter if it's true, it's what's being fed to people and that certainly won't court centralist swing state voters.
If Biden were to drop, there would need to be a primary if there were any shred of hope in defeating Trump. Centralists won't vote for anyone that wasn't nominated in a democratic process. Delay the election by a month or 6 weeks if you have to, but it's what would need to be done. Just throwing someone up on stage saying "it's going to be this guy, deal with it" will piss off and alienate too many voters.
First part is true, Trumps entire platform would be that he is going to turn the rest of the U.S into California. J.B would probably have this problem too but with Chicago. I really really want Gretchen
Newsome too vulnerable. Mainstream media narrative is that California is a god forsaken wasteland that people are desperately moving away from. Doesn't matter if it's true, it's what's being fed to people and that certainly won't court centralist swing state voters.
If Biden were to drop, there would need to be a primary if there were any shred of hope in defeating Trump. Centralists won't vote for anyone that wasn't nominated in a democratic process. Delay the election by a month or 6 weeks if you have to, but it's what would need to be done. Just throwing someone up on stage saying "it's going to be this guy, deal with it" will piss off and alienate too many voters.
First part is true, Trumps entire platform would be that he is going to turn the rest of the U.S into California. J.B would probably have this problem too but with Chicago. I really really want Gretchen
Post by jorgeandthekraken on Jul 2, 2024 17:11:03 GMT -5
Hey, thanks to the Supreme Court, Trump’s sentencing for the 34 felonies of which he has been convicted is getting delayed until September 18, if it happens at all…even though he wasn’t President when he committed these crimes and fuck everything nothing matters Jesus fucking Christ.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 8/17 - King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard @ Forest Hills 9/4 - Pearl Jam @ MSG 9/7 - Pearl Jam @ Wells Fargo Center 9/11 - St. Vincent @ Brooklyn Paramount 9/13 - Lucius/The War on Drugs/The National @ Forest Hills 9/19 - Stars @ Music Hall of Williamsburg
Hey, thanks to the Supreme Court, Trump’s sentencing for the 34 felonies of which he has been convicted is getting delayed until September 18, if it happens at all…even though he wasn’t President when he committed these crimes and fuck everything nothing matters Jesus fucking Christ.
This is one thing we were (correctly) told was so dangerous about Trump. Seriously, pretend "he/him" is Trump. It sounds like you'd expect it to, doesn't it?
And it also contradicts the idea that it's who surrounds Biden that actually matters.
First part is true, Trumps entire platform would be that he is going to turn the rest of the U.S into California. J.B would probably have this problem too but with Chicago. I really really want Gretchen
may we be so lucky
I mean everyone wants our weed and In N Out burgers
The only person with any sort of legitimacy without a genuine primary is Kamala. She's an elected VP.
If they're going to an open convention, it could easily be Michael Bloomberg.
I don't get not wanting Kamala because she's too conservative but being ok with Whitmer or Newsom, tbh. Or Biden. I don't really get the assertion that Kamala is more conservative than Biden. Which one helped get Clarence Thomas confirmed? Which one doesn't think abortion should necessarily be a woman's choice? Which one co-sponsored the crime bill and the crack/cocaine disparity?
I don't get not wanting Kamala because she's too conservative but being ok with Whitmer or Newsom, tbh. Or Biden. I don't really get the assertion that Kamala is more conservative than Biden. Which one helped get Clarence Thomas confirmed? Which one doesn't think abortion should necessarily be a woman's choice? Which one co-sponsored the crime bill and the crack/cocaine disparity?
I mean - for starters, Biden's been the most progressive president since FDR, so the assertion that Kamala is less conservative is odd. Anybody they nominate will almost definitely be more conservative than he's been as a President in terms of policy. You can point to decades-old (shitty) actions, but as President, that doesn't hold water.
Whitmer meanwhile is leading a very aggressively progressive Michigan democratic party. Also an odd thing to say.
The Newsom comparison is hard because - and this is one of the biggest problems with her - she has accomplished nothing of note in any major role outside of being Attorney General, where her biggest "accomplishments" are pretty conservative. It's impossible to know how conservative she actually is aside from her record as a cop. But also, whether she's more conservative is frankly kind of irrelevant - winning is what matters (see third point below)
If they're going to an open convention, it could easily be Michael Bloomberg.
It wouldn't be. He's literally not a democrat (and the democratic party would not nominate an independent via delegates, no matter what else they might do), he never led in a poll, he's pretty much the same age as Biden, which is a nonstarter if the problem with Biden is age. This is a pretty silly fear. Though I am glad Elizabeth Warren killed his campaign either way.
The only person with any sort of legitimacy without a genuine primary is Kamala. She's an elected VP.
I do ultimately agree with this. The problem is she tried to get them to vote for her for actual president, and she ran one of the worst campaigns in recent memory from a primary front-runner. Whether backing down on things she said in debates, her inability to form a substantive policy position, or the complete shitshow that was her campaign staff, it doesn't get much worse. She dropped out before votes were cast!
If the Democratic Party is going to reckon with losing an incumbent President as their nominee, it has to do so with one singular goal, which is winning. Winning requires someone charismatic, which she is not. Winning requires someone who can manage a contentious campaign, which her history indicates she cannot. Winning would be easier with someone who has any sort of accomplishment to point to whatsoever, which she cannot. Winning would be easier with someone popular, which she is not.
I don't love the idea of simply leaving it to backroom dealings among delegates - I've stated before my preference that if Biden were to drop out, they run a few debates among people they want to be considered (Kamala, Whitmer, Newsom, maybe Pete, I'd definitely include Warnock if it didn't mean losing a GA senator). That would give at least a semblance of choice, and a semblance of legitimacy to the proceedings of choosing someone. If not that, I'll begrudgingly accept Kamala over backroom dealings if only because of the fact that she was in fact nominated with Biden. I expect this to be what happens if he drops. But I really struggle to come up with any reason for optimism about a Kamala candidacy aside from the fact that she's younger than Biden.
Post by braundiggity on Jul 2, 2024 22:12:13 GMT -5
Also - the elephant in the room in all the "what if biden drops out" chatter is the idea of whoever the nominee is winning, then the democratic party clearing the field for that person in the 2028 election, robbing the party of any say in their nominee for a solid 12 years, which has never happened. If he were to drop out (still don't think he will), I really, REALLY hope the nominee commits to having a real primary next time around.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Jul 2, 2024 22:34:43 GMT -5
I don't know. The internal logic of the party system really makes it seem almost impossible to up your chance of success by replacing Biden at this point in the game. That's about where I stop thinking about it. I'd rather have him step aside or step in front of a bus but if you want to win I think you gotta let it ride.
About the only thing worse than a party split in July would be replacing Harris with Clinton on the ticket. Although that would be goddamn hilarious and I would defo go vote for it.
Biden being the "most progressive President since FDR "is more just because the party itself i.e the members of Congress has moved to the left compared to the Carter, Clinton and Obama years. I don't buy that Harris is more conservative than Biden and would move to the right since if she wins she will want to be re-elected
Biden being the "most progressive President since FDR "is more just because the party itself i.e the members of Congress has moved to the left compared to the Carter, Clinton and Obama years. I don't buy that Harris is more conservative than Biden and would move to the right since if she wins she will want to be re-elected
A) Move to the right of what? It's basically impossible to know where she stands? (aside from abortion) B) If anything, Biden's progressive shift post-election would push her (or anyone without firm beliefs) to the center, given he's gotten zero credit from progressives (or other voters) for any of the things he's done; most are frankly unaware of any of it. They're just things that make peoples' lives better while also allowing the right to demonize the issue and convince those people to vote for republicans. C) The conservative vs progressive question is, IMO, the least relevant part of the discussion. Winning is all that matters at this point in this election (as long as we get an actual primary next time, which I don't think we'll get if we win).
Biden being the "most progressive President since FDR "is more just because the party itself i.e the members of Congress has moved to the left compared to the Carter, Clinton and Obama years. I don't buy that Harris is more conservative than Biden and would move to the right since if she wins she will want to be re-elected
A) Move to the right of what? It's basically impossible to know where she stands? (aside from abortion) B) If anything, Biden's progressive shift post-election would push her (or anyone without firm beliefs) to the center, given he's gotten zero credit from progressives (or other voters) for any of the things he's done; most are frankly unaware of any of it. They're just things that make peoples' lives better while also allowing the right to demonize the issue and convince those people to vote for republicans. C) The conservative vs progressive question is, IMO, the least relevant part of the discussion. Winning is all that matters at this point in this election (as long as we get an actual primary next time, which I don't think we'll get if we win).
As for winning Biden is currently losing in every swing state and we don't even know if heis capable of performing well in events without a teleprompter. So yeah at this point I'm leaning toward moving to Harris since she is 22 years younger and can consistently speak in full sentences.
A) Move to the right of what? It's basically impossible to know where she stands? (aside from abortion) B) If anything, Biden's progressive shift post-election would push her (or anyone without firm beliefs) to the center, given he's gotten zero credit from progressives (or other voters) for any of the things he's done; most are frankly unaware of any of it. They're just things that make peoples' lives better while also allowing the right to demonize the issue and convince those people to vote for republicans. C) The conservative vs progressive question is, IMO, the least relevant part of the discussion. Winning is all that matters at this point in this election (as long as we get an actual primary next time, which I don't think we'll get if we win).
As for winning Biden is currently losing in every swing state and we don't even know if heis capable of performing well in events without a teleprompter. So yeah at this point I'm leaning toward moving to Harris since she is 22 years younger and can consistently speak in full sentences.
By that measure she's also on par with Corey Booker, who I don't think people consider some progressive paragon. Those votes are mostly reflective of the fact that republicans held the Senate during her years than anything else, and almost all democrats voted the same way, not some actual belief system or policy position. She couldn't hold down a policy position during the primary, which is more telling. We don't really know what she'd want to do. I'm not sure she does. (This is, to a degree, an indictment of the SF political machine that produced Newsom as well.)
And yes, I agree that if Biden can't convince folks (as I've said, via live interviews and ideally town halls) that the debate was an aberration, he should drop out, and Kamala would be better. I'm just not sure how much better, and I don't think she'd be the ideal.
As someone who worked in media for 25 years, I can confidently say that the idea that news orgs like CNN “just report the news” and don’t in any way craft or lean into narratives is utter horseshit.
Do you want to dance while also thinking about all the ways you've failed as a human?
UPCOMING SHOWS 8/17 - King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard @ Forest Hills 9/4 - Pearl Jam @ MSG 9/7 - Pearl Jam @ Wells Fargo Center 9/11 - St. Vincent @ Brooklyn Paramount 9/13 - Lucius/The War on Drugs/The National @ Forest Hills 9/19 - Stars @ Music Hall of Williamsburg
The statement is funny to me bc I have been background thinking over the last week about the likelihood of one (or both) candidates randomly dying before the election since they're 78 and 81. That would be a mess.
The statement is funny to me bc I have been background thinking over the last week about the likelihood of one (or both) candidates randomly dying before the election since they're 78 and 81. That would be a mess Godsend
I don't get not wanting Kamala because she's too conservative but being ok with Whitmer or Newsom, tbh. Or Biden. I don't really get the assertion that Kamala is more conservative than Biden. Which one helped get Clarence Thomas confirmed? Which one doesn't think abortion should necessarily be a woman's choice? Which one co-sponsored the crime bill and the crack/cocaine disparity?
I mean - for starters, Biden's been the most progressive president since FDR
Imo people just say that.
Did you see he came out against gender affirming care for minors yesterday?
Kamala would probably do the same because she is also an elite-level politician who will do whatever she can to help herself electorally. But to assert that Biden has "progressive" values is specious to me.