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Personally, I think we need to move past the idea of thinking your votes are meaningless if you're in a "red state" or "blue state." Far too many states were close in 2016 and a lot of those were states with citizens who might've voted third party because they had this line of thinking.
The real meaningless action is scolding someone for not voting the way you want them to
It doesn't work
In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that it is counterproductive liberal bullshit, because individualizing the responsibility and passing it on to voters lets the party establishment off the hook, and they're a million times more responsible for losing elections than some rando on the internet.
I hate this Biden can beat (electable) Trump bullshit that keeps getting thrown around.
He is not electable, he's constantly saying stupid shit and making gaffs. He is basically a republican and I personally will not vote for him. Sorry, not sorry. I know we have to get Trump out but that's not the way. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. I didn't vote for Hillary, I live in a red state and Democrats are not getting my vote with Biden.
Biden is just such a lose-lose situation. Let's say he actually does beat Trump because everyone actually decided to vote lesser of two evils. He's most likely a one term candidate and we'll have another right wing authoritarian president after him. But let's say he does all 8 years. Great that's 8 years of no healthcare for all, no living wage, and neo-lib policies. And then probably a Republican president after that.
I hate this Biden can beat (electable) Trump bullshit that keeps getting thrown around.
He is not electable, he's constantly saying stupid shit and making gaffs. He is basically a republican and I personally will not vote for him. Sorry, not sorry. I know we have to get Trump out but that's not the way. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels that way. I didn't vote for Hillary, I live in a red state and Democrats are not getting my vote with Biden.
Biden is just such a lose-lose situation. Let's say he actually does beat Trump because everyone actually decided to vote lesser of two evils. He's most likely a one term candidate and we'll have another right wing authoritarian president after him. But let's say he does all 8 years. Great that's 8 years of no healthcare for all, no living wage, and neo-lib policies. And then probably a Republican president after that.
+ the whole ICE/immigration mess gets swept under the rug and continues unheeded because with a Democrat in office the liberal media stops covering it.
Biden is just such a lose-lose situation. Let's say he actually does beat Trump because everyone actually decided to vote lesser of two evils. He's most likely a one term candidate and we'll have another right wing authoritarian president after him. But let's say he does all 8 years. Great that's 8 years of no healthcare for all, no living wage, and neo-lib policies. And then probably a Republican president after that.
+ the whole ICE/immigration mess gets swept under the rug and continues unheeded because with a Democrat in office the liberal media stops covering it.
The real meaningless action is scolding someone for not voting the way you want them to
It doesn't work
In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that it is counterproductive liberal bullshit, because individualizing the responsibility and passing it on to voters lets the party establishment off the hook, and they're a million times more responsible for losing elections than some rando on the internet.
I also think blaming the Democrats for losing to Trump overlooks the bigger problem that this country is so broken millions of people could listen to Trump be explicitly racist and still vote for him. Which isn’t really a new thing if we’re being honest.
Trump got a lesser vote share than Romney. He didn't activate some new previously unknown racist GOP voters
This is not to deny our racism problem. Simply to say that our racism problem is not nearly sufficient to explain losing a presidential election to the worst candidate in history. That's on the opposing campaign
Also, I think the fact that there are 12+ candidates running for the Democratic nomination (several of them even being viable) is a pretty strong indicator that the “establishment” is not in the tank for Biden. Sure there are some who buy into the “he’s electable” thing, but there are clearly others who don’t. Biden is polling 12 points lower than Hillary ever did for a reason.
That's true. The donor class has been loudly signalling that they will settle for anyone but Bernie
Trump got a lesser vote share than Romney. He didn't activate some new previously unknown racist GOP voters
This is not to deny our racism problem. Simply to say that our racism problem is not nearly sufficient to explain losing a presidential election to the worst candidate in history. That's on the opposing campaign
Trump got 2 million more votes than Romney did. Vote share isn’t really the right measure
7 million more votes cast overall. Number of votes, not such a good measure either
+ the whole ICE/immigration mess gets swept under the rug and continues unheeded because with a Democrat in office the liberal media stops covering it.
Ah yes, the liberal media.
Yes, the portion of the media that has a decidedly liberal slant. Do you have a better name for it or are you denying that it exists?
Democrats regularly more votes in Presidential, House, Senate (although that’s a different issue) and state House elections and still don’t win control of those bodies. Saying that it’s the Party’s fault they didn’t just win more votes isn’t untrue, but it gives a pass to the larger more urgent problem of the systematic disenfranchisement necessary for those type of results to occur. The Republicans are the ones who perpetuate this system, and it just feels so counterproductive to spend so much energy blaming the Democrats instead.
We all know Republicans are bad. It's a waste of energy to log on to this forum full of Democrats and talk about how Republicans are bad.
Republicans are largely able to do bad things like systemic disenfranchisement and, say, the entire Trump administration because their opposition is ineffective. Imagine how different things would be if, after winning in 2008, Obama hadn't dismantled his grassroots machine, hadn't desperately tried to govern in a bipartisan manner, hadn't done all the things that disillusioned the progressive left, and as a result of all that, hadn't overseen the loss of 1000+ state and federal seats to the Republicans (Many of them right before a crucial census/redistricting year)
I don't have an ounce of control over Republicans being bad. They will continue to be bad, forever. I have slightly more control over the direction of the Democratic party. That's where I choose to spend my energy
See I think encouraging people not to vote and thereby allowing Republicans to further cement their power (through the judiciary in particular) will make it much harder to improve the Democratic Party.
I'm not encouraging anybody not to vote. I'm saying that if someone has the honesty to come in here and tell us why the actions, policies, and beliefs of democratic leaders have demotivated them from voting, then maybe that's a problem that extends beyond a single voter.
Yes, the portion of the media that has a decidedly liberal slant. Do you have a better name for it or are you denying that it exists?
I don’t think what Trump is doing at the border is a creation of the liberal media, so I’m denying it exists in this context yes. I did border oversight during the unaccompanied minor surge in 2013-14. It was not a thing the liberal media ignored then and Obama got a lot of criticism from the left, especially at first when he deserved it most. But ultimately, the two situations were different, and so was the response from the media.
Oh yeah no I wasn't at all saying that I think that it was media created. I admittedly don't remember Obama catching much flak for immigration (or the unaccompanied minor surge at all, but that's my memory for ya), so I was more implying that, while the border crisis is definitely a real and horrendous thing, some media outlets certainly appreciate being able to use it against Trump and I fear it might continue with less media outcry under Biden (or another Dem candidate, but Biden esp given his debate answers regarding immigration).
"Pugnacity, high drama, self-congratulation and Top 10 familiarity — preferably all at once — are clear requirements for the playlist at Mr. Trump’s rallies. They’re oldies with a swagger …
I know little about Tom Steyer, but he may end up being the 11th person in. I know he's got a ton of money and a ton of ads playing in Boston/NH. Is money = bad good enough?
If Gabbard and Inslee make the debate, I'd have them in the top of my mid-tier with Yang and Castro.
See I think encouraging people not to vote and thereby allowing Republicans to further cement their power (through the judiciary in particular) will make it much harder to improve the Democratic Party.
I'm not encouraging anybody not to vote. I'm saying that if someone has the honesty to come in here and tell us why the actions, policies, and beliefs of democratic leaders have demotivated them from voting, then maybe that's a problem that extends beyond a single voter.
I voted Green two elections in a row because I had no faith in the Dems. Then I shifted to voting for the Dems to stop the GOP and because Obama was inspiring. Although I almost switched back to Greens in 2012. In short, the Democrats make it extremely hard for me to trust them or stay motivated to help them. I know I'm further left than a lot of their base but it's pretty easy to talk me into getting in line for the greater good. It really shouldn't be that difficult but I've already considered just giving up on them Dems 2 or 3 times this Summer.
As far as the current shift in voter suppression tactics, I'm not sure if there's any way to stop that at the current moment outside of expanding the base and taking back state governments. This is one reason it's so important to really focus on engaging new voters and expanding the base. Protecting/expanding Obamacare was a pretty big rallying cry in 2018. I'm sure we've talked about this before but enacting policy that makes a marked difference in people's lives ensures loyalty and it gives the Dems an anchor. Something to rally around in future elections. They should do the same thing with M4A and GND programs.
BTW, the rainforest have been on fucking fire for weeks. We're running out of time to start changing this shit.