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Side note: What's really difficult is that there are groups that are instantly called anti-Semitic for having any critiques of foreign policy or housing discrimination that they've seen in controlled neighborhoods. If you are a BDS-minded person and choose not to buy from Sabra or another company that uses what I consider open air prison labor, you get torn into by even liberals. As a black man I do not feel comfortable at all stating any foreign policy or anti-Likud dialogue because I will immediately be called an anti-semite.
Side note: What's really difficult is that there are groups that are instantly called anti-Semitic for having any critiques of foreign policy or housing discrimination that they've seen in controlled neighborhoods. If you are a BDS-minded person and choose not to buy from Sabra or another company that uses what I consider open air prison labor, you get torn into by even liberals. As a black man I do not feel comfortable at all stating any foreign policy or anti-Likud dialogue because I will immediately be called an anti-semite.
Yep, it's terrible, and it doesn't look like it's gonna change anytime soon. It was successfully weaponized against Corbyn, and they even tried it with Bernie. Kamala made a big show of saying "I'm not going to AIPAC" to look progressive and then just invited them to her office. The party crucified Ilhan Omar for something as mild as "It's all about the Benjamins". And all this is just within the past year lol
...Meanwhile, Team Biden is now openly announcing their intention to enact crippling austerity.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Aug 20, 2020 12:49:22 GMT -5
So this week:
- Congressional aide rumors of backing down in fighting for public option. - continuing hints of austerity measures and "ZOMG da deficit" talk. - confusion over oil and gas subsidies. Apparently removed by DNC folks but Biden's camp recommited. Still not a good look from the party bosses. They arn't committed to maJortles changes.
It's fucking August.
Is there any reason to believe this administration won't be the exact status quo reinforcing nothingburger we've all said it would be? Fuck, guys. At least try to hide it until the convention is over.
How does this not set us up for another election primed for an authoritarian?
- Congressional aide rumors of backing down in fighting for public option. - continuing hints of austerity measures and "ZOMG da deficit" talk. - confusion over oil and gas subsidies. Apparently removed by DNC folks but Biden's camp recommited. Still not a good look from the party bosses. They arn't committed to maJortles changes.
It's fucking August.
Is there any reason to believe this administration won't be the exact status quo reinforcing nothingburger we've all said it would be? Fuck, guys. At least try to hide it until the convention is over.
How does this not set us up for another election primed for an authoritarian?
what world do you live in where oil subsidies and healthcare not being left enough are on equal authoritarian grounds as locking kids in cages and secret police rounding up peaceful protesters off the street?
locking kids in cages and secret police rounding up peaceful protesters off the street?
You chose rather poor examples to make your point, given the record of the prior administration
Although I suppose the argument could be made that the brutal police crackdowns on the Occupy movement and the Ferguson protests, after which protest organizers were found in burning cars with two bullets in the back of their heads (Suicide? Who can say?), are technically distinct from secret police kidnappings
- Congressional aide rumors of backing down in fighting for public option. - continuing hints of austerity measures and "ZOMG da deficit" talk. - confusion over oil and gas subsidies. Apparently removed by DNC folks but Biden's camp recommited. Still not a good look from the party bosses. They arn't committed to maJortles changes.
It's fucking August.
Is there any reason to believe this administration won't be the exact status quo reinforcing nothingburger we've all said it would be? Fuck, guys. At least try to hide it until the convention is over.
How does this not set us up for another election primed for an authoritarian?
what world do you live in where oil subsidies and healthcare not being left enough are on equal authoritarian grounds as locking kids in cages and secret police rounding up peaceful protesters off the street?
One where you didn't get the point, it would seem. I don't even see an argument on gas subsidies as being all that ideological in this situation but whatever. It wasn't my point anyway. I was more looking at who they are doing the bidding of
I was using examples of how the Biden camp and the DNC are signaling that his administration plans to keep on a pretty equal path to what we'be seen in Dem administrations the last several decades. It will cause a continuation of mistrust and animosity towards the Dems and the elites. These are historically ideal conditions for authoritarians to gain power. See 2016 for an easy example.
Post by SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal on Aug 20, 2020 13:30:43 GMT -5
Like this isn't some far left argument guys. If citizens are hurting and the government does little to alleviate that... there will be push back. And history tells us it's not often logical or kind.
That's all I'm saying. They gotta offer more than scrapes or we will be stuck in this cycle of shit.
what world do you live in where oil subsidies and healthcare not being left enough are on equal authoritarian grounds as locking kids in cages and secret police rounding up peaceful protesters off the street?
One were you didn't get the point, it would seem. I don't even see an argument on gas subsidies as being all that ideological in this situation but whatever. It wasn't my point anyway. I was more looking at who they are doing the bidding of
I was using examples of how the Biden camp and the DNC are signaling that his administration plans to keep on a pretty equal path to what we'be seen in Dem administrations the last several decades. It will cause a continuation of mistrust and animosity towards the Dems and the elites. These are historically ideal conditions for authoritarians to gain power. See 2016 for an easy example.
One were you didn't get the point, it would seem. I don't even see an argument on gas subsidies as being all that ideological in this situation but whatever. It wasn't my point anyway. I was more looking at who they are doing the bidding of
I was using examples of how the Biden camp and the DNC are signaling that his administration plans to keep on a pretty equal path to what we'be seen in Dem administrations the last several decades. It will cause a continuation of mistrust and animosity towards the Dems and the elites. These are historically ideal conditions for authoritarians to gain power. See 2016 for an easy example.
got it - thanks for clarifying.
No worries. I really shouldn't try to type big posts on my phone. Anyone who plays mafia knows i'm bad at it. Well, everyone here probable knows.
- Congressional aide rumors of backing down in fighting for public option. - continuing hints of austerity measures and "ZOMG da deficit" talk. - confusion over oil and gas subsidies. Apparently removed by DNC folks but Biden's camp recommited. Still not a good look from the party bosses. They arn't committed to maJortles changes.
It's fucking August.
Is there any reason to believe this administration won't be the exact status quo reinforcing nothingburger we've all said it would be? Fuck, guys. At least try to hide it until the convention is over.
How does this not set us up for another election primed for an authoritarian?
Yeah they might not fuck up 2020 because Trump is so fucked as well, but I could see 2024 being a problem if someone like Tom Cotton or Tucker Carlson (lol, but also not lol) runs.
See this is why i have problems listening to the anti-biden bullshit on here. Look at what Trump is saying. Then our armchair warriors fling shit at Biden.
Biden wasn’t even my 3rd choice but at this point nothing matters until trump is out of office. Then you can be radical af, but worrying about the deficit or shunning some random activist? Okay, great. Call me when the president isnt trying to steal the election and i’ll care
See this is why i have problems listening to the anti-biden bullshit on here. Look at what Trump is saying. Then our armchair warriors fling shit at Biden.
Biden wasn’t even my 3rd choice but at this point nothing matters until trump is out of office. Then you can be radical af, but worrying about the deficit or shunning some random activist? Okay, great. Call me when the president isnt trying to steal the election and i’ll care
Ok, thank you for making the thousandth identical "But there's a god dang CHEETO In the white house" post and completely ignoring the repeated explanations people have given for why they are upset. And thank you, as well, for giving me permission to be radical just as soon as the tiny bit of leverage I have is gone
It is especially alarming how quickly you brush off concerns about austerity as "worrying about the deficit", given the massive amount of human suffering will be caused by slashing the social safety net, which will not be opposed by Democrats when their guy is pushing it.
See this is why i have problems listening to the anti-biden bullshit on here. Look at what Trump is saying. Then our armchair warriors fling shit at Biden.
Biden wasn’t even my 3rd choice but at this point nothing matters until trump is out of office. Then you can be radical af, but worrying about the deficit or shunning some random activist? Okay, great. Call me when the president isnt trying to steal the election and i’ll care
Ok, thank you for making the thousandth identical "But there's a god dang CHEETO In the white house" post and completely ignoring the repeated explanations people have given for why they are upset. And thank you, as well, for giving me permission to be radical just as soon as the tiny bit of leverage I have is gone
It is especially alarming how quickly you brush off concerns about austerity as "worrying about the deficit", given the massive amount of human suffering will be caused by slashing the social safety net, which will not be opposed by Democrats when their guy is pushing it.
Oh wise one, please school me on the ways of bureaucracy while the president destroys the post office and colludes with russia to steal the election. I’ll be sure to scream your complaints into the void when Trump wins again.
Edit: and what the fuck leverage do you have? Is biden waiting on a call from emoney? Pelosi? You got nothing. Take the way that leads to a democracy and figure shit out in 2021
Ok, thank you for making the thousandth identical "But there's a god dang CHEETO In the white house" post and completely ignoring the repeated explanations people have given for why they are upset. And thank you, as well, for giving me permission to be radical just as soon as the tiny bit of leverage I have is gone
It is especially alarming how quickly you brush off concerns about austerity as "worrying about the deficit", given the massive amount of human suffering will be caused by slashing the social safety net, which will not be opposed by Democrats when their guy is pushing it.
Oh wise one, please school me on the ways of bureaucracy while the president destroys the post office and colludes with russia to steal the election. I’ll be sure to scream your complaints into the void when Trump wins again.
Edit: and what the fuck leverage do you have? Is biden waiting on a call from emoney? Pelosi? You got nothing. Take the way that leads to a democracy and figure shit out in 2021
If a party always knows they have your vote no matter what they throw at you, there's no motivation for them to ever change. If all you have is your vote, then that's the only leverage you can use to effect real change (at least within the electoral system
As long as Democrats win leftist votes by being slightly less worse Republicans, they will continue to be slightly less worse Republicans and nothing will ever change except by catastrophe.
I'm back to thinking they might actually fuck this up. Amazing
I didn't see you leave our camp and go to the other side. Welcome back to "team we are going to fucking lose because the dems suck."
Ha. I just said after covid started that the economy tanking, etc made it more likly Trump would lose. I'd still say it's a toss-up but I'm not leaning Biden like I was.
Yeah they might not fuck up 2020 because Trump is so fucked as well, but I could see 2024 being a problem if someone like Tom Cotton or Tucker Carlson (lol, but also not lol) runs.
Maybe, I would think it would take at least another full turn before we'd get another lunatic. Unless Dems win 20 and 24. I mean any GOP person is bad but not necessarily neo-fascist bad.
But who knows. We have multiple ungoing crises. Things could very well keep breaking down without relief.
I'm no longer interested in trying to convince anyone on here how to vote anymore. You have good reasons for feeling how you feel and believing what you believe. And this really is your biggest opportunity to really utilize your leverage.
Personally, I am afraid that if Trump wins that the United States of America as we know it will crumble. We will become an actual dictatorship. Name a country that Trump respects that is legitimately democratic. China, Russia, North Korea. This isn't me trying to scare y'all to vote for Biden, I'm just telling y'all how I feel.
I'm no longer interested in trying to convince anyone on here how to vote anymore. You have good reasons for feeling how you feel and believing what you believe. And this really is your biggest opportunity to really utilize your leverage.
Personally, I am afraid that if Trump wins that the United States of America as we know it will crumble. We will become an actual dictatorship. Name a country that Trump respects that is legitimately democratic. China, Russia, North Korea. This isn't me trying to scare y'all to vote for Biden, I'm just telling y'all how I feel.
I personally don't feel like I'm utilizing leverage. I'm in Georgia. My vote doesn't mean anything. The only way I can help is donating to campaigns. I'm just done after the last 6 months... that's after years of going along with these worthless people. It's absolute clear they have very little intention of compromising with progressives. If I have to explain I can but I think I've made myself pretty clear over the last year or whatever. Anyone that knows me knows I tend to go with harm reduction as a voting strategy. I've argued it in this thread. So again. To be very clear, I'm not voting for Biden because I don't fucking want to. It's not out of purity or thinking a third party vote will send a message(it doesn't, even if it should). It's his record. His personal behavior. The behavior of the media and influential liberals. The DNC. It's been infuriating with what's all at stake and I will very likely never put any trust in them again. Not that I had much and I should have known better to begin with to be honest. I've been on the far left since the late 90s after all.
So again, I'm not telling anyone not to vote Biden. They both suck but Dems in power at this point is obvious preferable. If you look at my posts most of my concerns are about the future and what a weak administration could mean. If you're worried about Trump than you should also be worried about what the Dems plan to do to help us avoid sliding even more towards authoritarian rule. I'm just putting that forward now because I consider Biden a complete waste of all of our times. As of right now it looks like they plan on going back to business as usually. That's a massive fucking error. The best you can say is it might just mean the elites not having the imagination or ability to see a different path forward. A path that we must be given or we truly are doomed.
Our concerns aren't that different. In fact, I remember you having similar concerns in 2015. I would argue if you really had faith in this party and it's leadership abilities you wouldn't be worried that they could once again fuck up what should be a massive slam dunk of an election. I worry about that as well but I'm just done helping(what nothing help I can give here) these smug fuckers for the time being. One big difference, it seems, is I'm much more concerned with the GOP getting a competent fascist on down the road. Trump is terrible in so many ways but an administration that knows what it's doing could be all she wrote.
This isn't directed at you but a little advice for people that are trying to change minds. Actually fucking listen to what others are telling you. If you can't... maybe just sit back for a bit.
Decent speech by VP Biden. I'd give him a B for it. But what struck me the most was why the fuck in 2020 is a presidential challenger having to fight against nazism, hatred, racism, voter suppression, evil, corruption and shit like that?
Decent speech by VP Biden. I'd give him a B for it. But what struck me the most was why the fuck in 2020 does a presidential challenger having to fight against nazism, hatred, racism, voter suppression, evil, corruption and shit like that?
Ask someone that's been in DC making policy for decades. Maybe someone like Joe Biden?
Decent speech by VP Biden. I'd give him a B for it. But what struck me the most was why the fuck in 2020 does a presidential challenger having to fight against nazism, hatred, racism, voter suppression, evil, corruption and shit like that?
Ask someone that's been in DC making policy for decades. Maybe someone like Joe Biden?
To whatever specific degree, anyone that's been there that long is culpable for a lot of shit. But hopefully someone will always stand up against the worst of the worst. The arguments I want to hear are generally more centered around policy than WW2 ideology.