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Everyone’s lineup is unrealistic but ours. I don’t get why this concept is so hard.
I think acts that have played Roo and Big Ears in the past, and play rEaL iNsTrUmEnTs, would be enough on the radar to close a tent again one day especially if I was in charge of the philosophy.
Everyone’s lineup is unrealistic but ours. I don’t get why this concept is so hard.
I think acts that have played Roo and Big Ears in the past, and play rEaL iNsTrUmEnTs, would be enough on the radar to close a tent again one day especially if I was in charge of the philosophy.
Damn, we got busted trying sneak an extremely rare James Murphy DJ set on to our lineup. Humiliating.
Joanna Newsom is as realistic as Sigur Ros and both have played Roo
Let's break this down a bit. Joanna Newsom played Bonnaroo in 2005 and Sigur Ros played in 2008, so that's so far in the past for both acts that it really doesn't matter for 2021. (as to your later point, Newsom played Big Ears in 2010, also in the distant past)
One of the things I've been considering about whether an act is realistic is how likely they are to actually play a USA festival when they're actively touring. Joanna Newsom hasn't played a festival since Pitchfork 2013, and that's her only USA festival since Big Ears 2010. She played a decent amount of US dates in 2015-16 on the Divers tour, but shifted to tiny venues for the Strings/Keys Incident tour last year. Meanwhile, Sigur Ros played both Hangout and Boston Calling in 2017, Treasure Island Fest in 2016, and 42 USA shows between 2016-2017. When they toured in 2013, they played Coachella, Sasquatch and Laneway. Basically, if they're touring, it's reasonable to expect that they'll play a fest. That's the big difference between the acts.
Did the Aphex Twin team really take Joanna Newsom for the realistic Bonnaroo draft
* picks Nina Kraviz, James Murphy, Maya Jane Coles and 2manydjs in the last 3 rounds as a treat*
This gets into what I'm talking about a bit more. The objection people seem to be having to some acts is that Bonnaroo "wouldn't" book house music or techno or whatever, but I think that kind of misses the point. It seemed like the whole point of this draft was to improve Bonnaroo's lineup, i.e. replace the crappy acts they book with good ones, but while making sure it was acts they "could" book. So yeah, Bonnaroo wouldn't book Nina Kraviz because she isn't wook bass or whatever. But there's no indication that they couldn't. Since 2014 she's played Coachella 3 times, Movement 2 times, Buku and Day for Night. She clearly has no aversion to playing festivals here, so there's no reason to believe that she wouldn't play Bonnaroo if asked. Similarly, since 2016 Maya Jane Coles has played Coachella, CRSSD, Okeechobee, Electric Forest, Movement, Ultra, III Points, etc. Meanwhile, Aphex Twin has played exactly three US dates in the last decade - DFN 2016, a show in Brooklyn 2019, and Coachella. The touring pattern indicates that a) he doesn't really care about playing that much in general, b) he really doesn't care to play the USA much, and c) he really doesn't care to play USA festivals much. That's how I'm evaluating the idea of "realism" here.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Aug 7, 2020 8:53:46 GMT -5
Gonna throw in here that I recognize actually trying to book more than 1-2 women in the Other Tent automatically makes our lineup “unrealistic.” That’s something we’ll just have to live with.
Joanna Newsom is as realistic as Sigur Ros and both have played Roo
Let's break this down a bit. Joanna Newsom played Bonnaroo in 2005 and Sigur Ros played in 2008, so that's so far in the past for both acts that it really doesn't matter for 2021. (as to your later point, Newsom played Big Ears in 2010, also in the distant past)
One of the things I've been considering about whether an act is realistic is how likely they are to actually play a USA festival when they're actively touring. Joanna Newsom hasn't played a festival since Pitchfork 2013, and that's her only USA festival since Big Ears 2010. She played a decent amount of US dates in 2015-16 on the Divers tour, but shifted to tiny venues for the Strings/Keys Incident tour last year. Meanwhile, Sigur Ros played both Hangout and Boston Calling in 2017, Treasure Island Fest in 2016, and 42 USA shows between 2016-2017. When they toured in 2013, they played Coachella, Sasquatch and Laneway. Basically, if they're touring, it's reasonable to expect that they'll play a fest. That's the big difference between the acts.
* picks Nina Kraviz, James Murphy, Maya Jane Coles and 2manydjs in the last 3 rounds as a treat*
This gets into what I'm talking about a bit more. The objection people seem to be having to some acts is that Bonnaroo "wouldn't" book house music or techno or whatever, but I think that kind of misses the point. It seemed like the whole point of this draft was to improve Bonnaroo's lineup, i.e. replace the crappy acts they book with good ones, but while making sure it was acts they "could" book. So yeah, Bonnaroo wouldn't book Nina Kraviz because she isn't wook bass or whatever. But there's no indication that they couldn't. Since 2014 she's played Coachella 3 times, Movement 2 times, Buku and Day for Night. She clearly has no aversion to playing festivals here, so there's no reason to believe that she wouldn't play Bonnaroo if asked. Similarly, since 2016 Maya Jane Coles has played Coachella, CRSSD, Okeechobee, Electric Forest, Movement, Ultra, III Points, etc. Meanwhile, Aphex Twin has played exactly three US dates in the last decade - DFN 2016, a show in Brooklyn 2019, and Coachella. The touring pattern indicates that a) he doesn't really care about playing that much in general, b) he really doesn't care to play the USA much, and c) he really doesn't care to play USA festivals much. That's how I'm evaluating the idea of "realism" here.
I think as long as you don’t abandon wook bass / edm, then you can throw in some house music. But like turning The Other into the Yuma tent, although would objectively be better, would not be realistic at all.
Let's break this down a bit. Joanna Newsom played Bonnaroo in 2005 and Sigur Ros played in 2008, so that's so far in the past for both acts that it really doesn't matter for 2021. (as to your later point, Newsom played Big Ears in 2010, also in the distant past)
One of the things I've been considering about whether an act is realistic is how likely they are to actually play a USA festival when they're actively touring. Joanna Newsom hasn't played a festival since Pitchfork 2013, and that's her only USA festival since Big Ears 2010. She played a decent amount of US dates in 2015-16 on the Divers tour, but shifted to tiny venues for the Strings/Keys Incident tour last year. Meanwhile, Sigur Ros played both Hangout and Boston Calling in 2017, Treasure Island Fest in 2016, and 42 USA shows between 2016-2017. When they toured in 2013, they played Coachella, Sasquatch and Laneway. Basically, if they're touring, it's reasonable to expect that they'll play a fest. That's the big difference between the acts.
This gets into what I'm talking about a bit more. The objection people seem to be having to some acts is that Bonnaroo "wouldn't" book house music or techno or whatever, but I think that kind of misses the point. It seemed like the whole point of this draft was to improve Bonnaroo's lineup, i.e. replace the crappy acts they book with good ones, but while making sure it was acts they "could" book. So yeah, Bonnaroo wouldn't book Nina Kraviz because she isn't wook bass or whatever. But there's no indication that they couldn't. Since 2014 she's played Coachella 3 times, Movement 2 times, Buku and Day for Night. She clearly has no aversion to playing festivals here, so there's no reason to believe that she wouldn't play Bonnaroo if asked. Similarly, since 2016 Maya Jane Coles has played Coachella, CRSSD, Okeechobee, Electric Forest, Movement, Ultra, III Points, etc. Meanwhile, Aphex Twin has played exactly three US dates in the last decade - DFN 2016, a show in Brooklyn 2019, and Coachella. The touring pattern indicates that a) he doesn't really care about playing that much in general, b) he really doesn't care to play the USA much, and c) he really doesn't care to play USA festivals much. That's how I'm evaluating the idea of "realism" here.
I think as long as you don’t abandon wook bass / edm, then you can throw in some house music. But like turning The Other into the Yuma tent, although would objectively be better, would not be realistic at all.
This is where I think the rules are weird and kind of nebulous. My take is that it should be the acts themselves that are semi-realistic, and the basic genres (i.e. you can't lose all the electronic and replace it with ska). But if the whole idea is to improve Bonnaroo by drafting better acts, you shouldn't have to take shitty wook bass. Again, I'm looking at is not as what Bonnaroo *would* do (because they wouldn't, in their current iteration, book literally 90% of the stuff being drafted, as evidenced by the fact that the don't) and more what *could* they do if they so chose.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Aug 7, 2020 9:01:37 GMT -5
Your team has been given the opportunity to curate the lineup for Bonnaroo 2021 in competition with fifteen other teams. Your goals are to book a lineup that would (1) sell enough tickets to keep Bonnaroo alive, (2) improve Bonnaroo's identity (e.g. impress your voters) while (3) accounting for the type of acts the festival booked in earlier and later editions. More specifically, you should have three Bonnaroo sized headliners and subheadliners, late night shows, and genre diversity (jam, EDM, rap, indie, pop, rock, metal, country, comedy, cinema, etc).
I think people are reading this as “if LiveNation hired you to curate Bonnaroo” where I’m thinking about it as “if I won the powerball and bought this fucker outright, but didn’t want to completely tank it and bankrupt myself, what would I do?”
I think as long as you don’t abandon wook bass / edm, then you can throw in some house music. But like turning The Other into the Yuma tent, although would objectively be better, would not be realistic at all.
This is where I think the rules are weird and kind of nebulous. My take is that it should be the acts themselves that are semi-realistic, and the basic genres (i.e. you can't lose all the electronic and replace it with ska). But if the whole idea is to improve Bonnaroo by drafting better acts, you shouldn't have to take shitty wook bass. Again, I'm looking at is not as what Bonnaroo *would* do (because they wouldn't, in their current iteration, book literally 90% of the stuff being drafted, as evidenced by the fact that the don't) and more what *could* they do if they so chose.
The rules state we should be accounting to the previous Bonnaroo lineups, specifically the latter editions. We also need to sell out the festival. Replacing wook bass and edm with house music will drastically hurt attendance, as these people make up at least a third of Bonnaroo’s attendance in the last few years.
Like it or not, the Other programming seems like huge success for new Roo. I imagine modern attendees would be upset to see their wook, bass, and mainstream EDM replaced by deeper house and techno.
This is where I think the rules are weird and kind of nebulous. My take is that it should be the acts themselves that are semi-realistic, and the basic genres (i.e. you can't lose all the electronic and replace it with ska). But if the whole idea is to improve Bonnaroo by drafting better acts, you shouldn't have to take shitty wook bass. Again, I'm looking at is not as what Bonnaroo *would* do (because they wouldn't, in their current iteration, book literally 90% of the stuff being drafted, as evidenced by the fact that the don't) and more what *could* they do if they so chose.
The rules state we should be accounting to the previous Bonnaroo lineups, specifically the latter editions. We also need to sell out the festival. Replacing wook bass and edm with house music will drastically hurt attendance, as these people make up at least a third of Bonnaroo’s attendance in the last few years.
It doesn’t specifically say it has to follow recent editions. Our lineup is in the wheelhouse of 2012-2015 imo.
Like it or not, the Other programming seems like huge success for new Roo. I imagine modern attendees would be upset to see their wook, bass, and mainstream EDM replaced by deeper house and techno.
Eh, lot of competition this year, not enough wook bass to go around. Attendees will understand.
This is where I think the rules are weird and kind of nebulous. My take is that it should be the acts themselves that are semi-realistic, and the basic genres (i.e. you can't lose all the electronic and replace it with ska). But if the whole idea is to improve Bonnaroo by drafting better acts, you shouldn't have to take shitty wook bass. Again, I'm looking at is not as what Bonnaroo *would* do (because they wouldn't, in their current iteration, book literally 90% of the stuff being drafted, as evidenced by the fact that the don't) and more what *could* they do if they so chose.
The rules state we should be accounting to the previous Bonnaroo lineups, specifically the latter editions. We also need to sell out the festival. Replacing wook bass and edm with house music will drastically hurt attendance, as these people make up at least a third of Bonnaroo’s attendance in the last few years.
The rules state you should "improve" Bonnaroo while "accounting for the type of acts the festival booked in earlier and later editions", also noting the importance of genre diversity. Saying that you have to book wook bass because that's the kind of electronic Bonnaroo almost exclusively books now negates the entire idea of "improving" the fest. Booking more house, techno, disco, etc. keeps within the overall genre goal. Also, the rules say you need to sell 70k tickets, but not 70k tickets to the same people who attended in 2018 and 2019.
Like it or not, the Other programming seems like huge success for new Roo. I imagine modern attendees would be upset to see their wook, bass, and mainstream EDM replaced by deeper house and techno.
they can go watch a String Cheese Incident dubstep show at Electric Forest then, good riddance.
Like it or not, the Other programming seems like huge success for new Roo. I imagine modern attendees would be upset to see their wook, bass, and mainstream EDM replaced by deeper house and techno.
Eh, lot of competition this year, not enough wook bass to go around. Attendees will understand.
Attendees who thrive on head banging to Zeds Dead, REZZ, Grizmatik, etc. are not going to get down with Nina Kraviz's 10-minute build-ups. When Buku booked Nina Kraviz a few years ago, her set was apparently a ghost town. I'd say Bonnaroo's identity is more in line with modern Buku than Coachella or CRSSD.
Like it or not, the Other programming seems like huge success for new Roo. I imagine modern attendees would be upset to see their wook, bass, and mainstream EDM replaced by deeper house and techno.
they can go watch a String Cheese Incident dubstep show at Electric Forest then, good riddance.
Electric Forest will sell out again while your Bonnaroo may struggle selling out.
Post by Larry Farnsworth on Aug 7, 2020 9:15:21 GMT -5
the rules literally state that one of your goals is to improve Bonnaroo's identity, which it's kind of hard to do if you're booking the exact same acts they always book
Post by Nathan Fieldcяab on Aug 7, 2020 9:17:07 GMT -5
I don't think the Other stage should have to be exclusively wook bass, but if it's missing entirely people are definitely going to notice. Also we're not even close to running out of names to draft there, so disagree that there's not enough to go around at this juncture
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Aug 7, 2020 9:17:28 GMT -5
We have a couple ideas to appease the wooks, we just sure as hell didn’t want to waste imaginary money booking Excision for our imaginary festival so we could sell imaginary tickets.
Eh, lot of competition this year, not enough wook bass to go around. Attendees will understand.
Attendees who thrive on head banging to Zeds Dead, REZZ, Grizmatik, etc. are not going to get down with Nina Kraviz's 10-minute build-ups. When Buku booked Nina Kraviz a few years ago, her set was apparently a ghost town. I'd say Bonnaroo's identity is more in line with modern Buku than Coachella or CRSSD.
Are you really arguing that wook/bass doesn't have to be drafted? That's like so integral to Bonnaroo lol
It's been integral to Bonnaroo for like the last two years, this fest changes aims and audiences about every three.
Like, arguments like this remind me of when Bonnaroo booked Radiohead in 2006 and people flipped out because they weren't a jamband.
Well yeah but even when Bonnaroo went from being super jam oriented they still booked at least some jam. Bonnaroo would completely rid themselves of a consistent ticket buying group
the rules literally state that one of your goals is to improve Bonnaroo's identity, which it's kind of hard to do if you're booking the exact same acts they always book
That’s part of the challenge. Improve the festival, but without completely abandoning the previous year’s ticket buyers. For me, I personally would never go to Bonnaroo. The goal I have in mind is to make an actual Bonnaroo lineup that I’d go to. Not trying to make my dream festival (did that already in Infinity).
Joanna Newsom is as realistic as Sigur Ros and both have played Roo
Let's break this down a bit. Joanna Newsom played Bonnaroo in 2005 and Sigur Ros played in 2008, so that's so far in the past for both acts that it really doesn't matter for 2021. (as to your later point, Newsom played Big Ears in 2010, also in the distant past)
One of the things I've been considering about whether an act is realistic is how likely they are to actually play a USA festival when they're actively touring. Joanna Newsom hasn't played a festival since Pitchfork 2013, and that's her only USA festival since Big Ears 2010. She played a decent amount of US dates in 2015-16 on the Divers tour, but shifted to tiny venues for the Strings/Keys Incident tour last year. Meanwhile, Sigur Ros played both Hangout and Boston Calling in 2017, Treasure Island Fest in 2016, and 42 USA shows between 2016-2017. When they toured in 2013, they played Coachella, Sasquatch and Laneway. Basically, if they're touring, it's reasonable to expect that they'll play a fest. That's the big difference between the acts.
* picks Nina Kraviz, James Murphy, Maya Jane Coles and 2manydjs in the last 3 rounds as a treat*
This gets into what I'm talking about a bit more. The objection people seem to be having to some acts is that Bonnaroo "wouldn't" book house music or techno or whatever, but I think that kind of misses the point. It seemed like the whole point of this draft was to improve Bonnaroo's lineup, i.e. replace the crappy acts they book with good ones, but while making sure it was acts they "could" book. So yeah, Bonnaroo wouldn't book Nina Kraviz because she isn't wook bass or whatever. But there's no indication that they couldn't. Since 2014 she's played Coachella 3 times, Movement 2 times, Buku and Day for Night. She clearly has no aversion to playing festivals here, so there's no reason to believe that she wouldn't play Bonnaroo if asked. Similarly, since 2016 Maya Jane Coles has played Coachella, CRSSD, Okeechobee, Electric Forest, Movement, Ultra, III Points, etc. Meanwhile, Aphex Twin has played exactly three US dates in the last decade - DFN 2016, a show in Brooklyn 2019, and Coachella. The touring pattern indicates that a) he doesn't really care about playing that much in general, b) he really doesn't care to play the USA much, and c) he really doesn't care to play USA festivals much. That's how I'm evaluating the idea of "realism" here.
I agree that there could be a couple of house dj's (like they booked Yaeji this year) but I agree with Julie that you can't really turn the The Other into some Yuma-tent. Roo ain't no Movement.