Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Any and all donations through snail mail should be accepted. However there's no guarantee when the mail will get there, especially in time to purchase a ticket. Perhaps you should go ahead and purchase the ticket with the faith that money will be sent to reimburse you. I dont know how comfortable you are with this idea, but we're all great people on here whom I am sure will be able to cover the 210 despite you having to front it.
Okay, so smite me if you want, but I have a really bad feeling about these "Jim Tobin is a D*ck" shirts. (Sorry Andrea. Your shirt IS really cute, though!) It's just that we don't know his side of the story. For example, what if there was someone else telling him to do what he did? I'm up for wearing a "Support Camp Kramer" shirt or button, but I don't knwo if it's such a good idea to put the other part on there. Plus, if Jim Tobin is as powerful as we're starting to think, then what would stop him from throwing out anyone with those shirts? Then, what would that lead to? A lot of angry people raising hell and not having a fun Bonnaroo.
I think we had some great ideas when it came with how to address the church. Now, why can't we be that diplomatic with Jim Tobin's people? Isn't that also the Bonnaroo spirit?
As for the cops, there's no excuse for that kind of treatment. dmbfan: do you think it would cause more trouble to call the police station and talk to them about what happened? Maybe you could explain to them that you saw her stuff there and that he was with you, so he couldn't have taken it.
And, yes, I DO think it's kind of strange that he didn't have a ticket or money for one. I don't have a problem with people helping him get one, but it was kind of a silly thing for him to do. I still wouldn't mind donating a few bucks but I will literally overdraw my account if I do. Every penny has gone to roo! I don't get paid until RIGHT before we leave. Maybe I can give dmbfan something when we get there.
Post by checkeredpast on Jun 5, 2006 19:55:06 GMT -5
gougeaway said:
so wait a sec, this guy came to roo 2 weeks beforehand without a ticket and no money to purchase one?
does that strike anyone else as extremely irresponsible?
In Kramer's defense, I think he was counting on the fact that he'd be able to work at the Roo to get in. but it seems like they aren't letting him anyway
My shirt is simply gonna say Team Kramer. Gets the point across without offending anyone.
In Kramer's defense, I think he was counting on the fact that he'd be able to work at the Roo to get in. but it seems like they aren't letting him anyway
Well, counting the fact that he didn't even have the sense to get his paperwork together, when he travelled with a friend who DID have his paperwork together, then deciding he should camp out for a month with no ticket and no money, it just strikes me as ridiculously irresponsible.
I know there is alot of love and support for Kramer here, and I'm not knocking the guy. I urge you to support him if you feel it is necessary. It's just that there are 2 ways to go about things, responsibly and irresponsibly. You can be prepared, or unprepared. Responsibly prepared people generally have things go the way they plan them. Unprepared people find themselves in situations like the one Kramer is in now. Again, not a knock on the guy, just food for thought.
well i hear what your saying about too sides to every story but i can assure everyone that you will not get tossed from roo for wearing a shirt that says anything. it just wont happen.
but i say fuc.k jim tobin. him and the cops are all dic.ks
and by the way if he came to work he had to have a 25o dollar money order. wouldnt he still have that? im all for helping a guy out but at some point ya gotta say wtf man. you shoulda made some plans and some money like the rest of us. while im workin wantin to kill myself so i can make it to roo hes camping out and getting trashed with roo people for free and actually making money at it. kinda sux. but at any rate thats probably just jealousy talking. ill throw in 10 just because some day i might pull some shit like this
that's a good point, dudewheresmyroo, the workers have to pony up the money for the ticket before they sign on to work, so they can't bail on the work and get a free ride.
Post by ghostintothefog on Jun 5, 2006 20:16:01 GMT -5
dude... i got an old ems tabernac that someone borrowed, and left wet. i dried it out the best i could, it's not horrible, but it has that dank smell, and anyone that's ever lent a tent out knows exactly wut i'm talkin about. some fresh cedar chips... (shit... smoke a bowl in it!!) would help. say the word, and it's YOURS... i don't even want it back. i'm hitchhikin down from vt... but truthfully, pack weight dun mean much to me... i can't walk from vt to tn!!! i'll be in cars the whole way coz my bonnaroo sign will carry me far. just say the word, and tell me how to meet up.
Wow, all this "responsibility" talk is interesting.
I don't think Kramer asked, begged, or implied he wanted any sort of assistance. Sure if the kind hearts of dmb, teine, and others hadn't come along, he'd probably be in a really bad way, but that's not what happened. Kramer was lucky -- very lucky -- and due to that, he'll probably have an incredible time at Bonnaroo, without spending a nickel. Is that the way it should be for everybody? Of course not and I don't think anyone is trying to say it is. This is just a case of a free spirit (irresponsible, if you will) who got himself in a sticky situation while trying to have a good time. I'm sure this isn't the first time his actions have put him between a rock and a hard place, and I'm certain it won't be the last! This is a board celebrating Bonnaroo, and first and foremeost, Bonnaroo is built on an appreciation of music, but not far behind that is a structure of brotherhood and love. There's really no need to get so defensive over an outpouring of love for some free spirited folks. The world can be a pretty ugly place, there are atrocities taking place every second, of every day -- so when something small can be done to promote goodness, I'm game. Personally, if I can do something to help another who might be down on their luck for WHATEVER reason, self inflicted or otherwise, I'll try to do so. When I see something like this happening, it helps to renew my faith in the human spirit. It's almost selfish, because I end up feeling so great after taking part or reading about it!
To take a quote from the great Arthur Lee out of context:
Yeah, I heard a funny thing Somebody said to me, You know that I could be in love with almost everyone!
well i do agree that legal/safety things do apply. they should have politley explained that to him. im more angered about the pigs invading private property with guns drawn without a warrant and with no proof of anything other then some chick saying he was there. i would go to the paper about it. thats b.s.
the detractors make some good and valid points. IMO i would not have anything derogatory to say about mr. tobin--i, for one have no evidence to the fact he did anything wrong. some people are cool (to me) and others are not cool(to me)---i just choose to gravitate towards the cool people----as for kramer, i love the fact that he is unprepared and irresponsible--i remember being that way a long long time ago---(thought i wanted to be a surf bum so i moved to hawaii with a bag of rice and my surfboard and $100 in my pocket---the best year of my life. my "job" was giving plasma twice a week $75 a pop---then reality set in and though a fortunate chain of events and the help of "cool", decent people i now am quite responsible and somewhat successful) it's not a path i would recommend for anybody but its been a great journey---now i see kramer and i cant help but think of my year on the north shore---sure he's irresponsible , and im sorry for your buddy who cant make, but we all have to make decisions--- kramer could be the graetest con-artist in the world, but to feel those wanderlust feelings again is worth $20---as for the cops being.............cops, well idont expect to much from them anyway(if you know any cops, very many of them have very similar personality traits) i tend to respect thier ability to control certain freedoms i enjoy, and thus try not to give them any reason to want to talk to me--they don't "get" me , but i don't "get them either----whatever they're people too---so let's try to keep it positive--peace, my peeps
I agree with the idea of not pissing Jim Tobin off, I have seen his power first hand. Folks, please don't wear the derogatory shirts towrds Tobin. I realize that this is probably best behavior for us.
As far as wether its right or wrong to donate to a "bum", well that's not for me to decide, it's a personal decision amongst all of you. I you feel its wrong, don't donate! But don't chastize others for CHOOSING to do so. :-)
Now Kramer AND Anthony came on the hopes of getting work on the set up crew, they have been setting up the site for a month now.
Anthony got work as soon as they arrived. Kramer did not get the work because he lost his SSN card. I have personally taken him to the ofice and he applied for a replacement.
Anthony could be living in the A/C crew tent, but chooses to stay out with his traveling partner in the tent. These guys have been on a twice across the country journey.
He hasn't "asked" for handouts, the local community sorta "adopted" him. He has been very gracious and has offered to work for several of the local farmers. They haven't caused trouble or made a mess.
As I said before, I don't think we should piss of Tobin! After today's event, hopefully the BS will end, he has the land owner and another local farmer on his side.
I would like to request that we move all the "donation discussion" to the other thread. I am going to go ahead and try to ge thtis account going, and will accept donations anyway you guys want.
I don't know if I am getting in over my head or not here, I wnat NO trouble or ill will!
And believe me, I have already donated plenty to the Kramer fund and I will be putting in 20 cash towards the ticket/extra.
Thanks guys, love and peace!!
If there are anymore updates on the saga of Kramer and Anthony, I will post them here.
As I've gotten older, my ego has shrunk, and I've gotten better at not passing judgement on people. The guy is in a tough position. I really doubt that he has lived as long as he has and never been told to 'find work' or 'be more responsible.' Who am I to lecture somebody on their life decisions? Do you really think dangling a carrot in front of somebody his age would really do a lot of good? If I want to help, in some small way, a person in a really rough position, that's my right. I guarantee you that they don't get this kind of reaction everywhere they go. There's a reason they were living under a tarp. Why not try to make their Bonnaroo experience a little bit different?
I understand and respect everyone's point of view.
Kramer's not a wook trying to chat'cha up while pick-pocketing or passing off bad acid. He's just a wee bit poorer than most of us and "da man" is making his circumstances worse. We've all been there at some point.
If it feels right to help him out, then do it; if you've got it to spare, then do it if you want. But please don't turn a positive situation, one we can actually do something about, into something bad. Because, until DMB or Teine say he's a bad guy, we should assume he's as good as he has displayed during the hours and hours spent with the locals.
In a way it sucks that for the 40 or so people who have taken an interest in Kramer through this board, this is probably the only visable impact we will make that will affect someone's life. I give to non-profits all of the time at work (I'm forced to pretty much - about $300 a year total) yet I never see a smile or get a thank you from the people who receive the help. Yeah, that's not what giving is about, but it should be uplifting to help others and it's a positive reinforcement to an entire community when you can see the joy it can bring.
not blood, plasma(the fluid your red blood cells travel in) it's a pain the a$$--they take you blood separate the red cells then pump the reds back in ya-takes about an hour ,but they had movies playing, hot hawaiian phlebotomists, and a nice snack w/ juice afterwards---not nearly as glamorous as it sounds
There is no "what if" about it. In the bigger picture, he is my brother. Accordingly, Kramer is my brother too. We're all our brother's (and sister's) keeper. So I don't agree with "Jim Tobin is a D*ck" because it isn't brotherly, but not helping Kramer isn't brotherly either.
Let me make sure I've got this clear - Kramer shows up, and gets turned down for work, whether it's because of lack of ID or whatever. The reason is irrelevant.
The reason isn't irrelevant. From what I gather, his Social Security paperwork that he got from Coffee County should have been a viable alternative to the actual SS Card. So I think in some way(s) Jim Tobin did not act fairly since Kramer was informed his new paperwork would be just fine.
just tell him to wait till people are ariving and he'll probably be able to find a ticket for 20 bucks off of someone in line, or maybe even score a miracle.
The reason isn't irrelevant. From what I gather, his Social Security paperwork that he got from Coffee County should have been a viable alternative to the actual SS Card. So I think in some way(s) Jim Tobin did not act fairly since Kramer was informed his new paperwork would be just fine.
Exactly right!!
And folks hes isn't some lot rat hanging aroung waiting for the party, he has been around to the local farms and asked for work, he has asked the lady who owns the land for work and from what I understand he has worked some. Most people out here have thier stuff covered.
Remember, he hasn't asked for a bit of charity, it has all come from the generosity of the local Manchester community!
If not for the SSN car situation, he WOULD be working and we would have never even heard of these two guys.
I think the fun I have had over the last three weeks is worht a 20 donation!!
gougeaway, i understand what you're getting at but you act like you've never made an impulsive decision in your life. :/
Being a father of 2 for going on 9 years now I have very little room or time for impulsive decisions. But I wouldn't call this an "impulsive decision," more like poor planning.
edit: and for the record I am not trying to be hostile, so please don't take any of my posts that way. I'm just trying to be reasonable.
gougeaway, i understand what you're getting at but you act like you've never made an impulsive decision in your life. :/
Being a father of 2 for going on 9 years now I have very little room or time for impulsive decisions. But I wouldn't call this an "impulsive decision," more like poor planning.
edit: and for the record I am not trying to be hostile, so please don't take any of my posts that way. I'm just trying to be reasonable.
I get you totally on that, I am a father of two myself 13 yo and 11 yo, I am 33 so do the math, we had kids young (Wouldn't trade it for ANYTHING!!)
I guess I admire these boys for what they represent. I guess it's something that I have always wanted to do, but responsibility prevented it. It is certainly not the life for me, but they have my respect.
On top of that, my wife and I are just giving people, we can't help it (mostly her!!) If I see a person i need and I can help them, I will.
Yes I give money to the beggars on the corner. Sure I don't what they will buy with it, and I am sure some of them blow it on whatever, but SOME of them go eat with it.
Besides, over the past few years, I have discovered that when I give of myself, it makes ME feel good. Almost as if I am selfish and do for me, not the recipient, does that makes sense????
Anyway, I really appreciate everyone's support and respect EVERYONE'S opinion on here, no matter your position.
If you choose to donate, thank you, if not, its cool, I hope we can still have a beer together.
word, dmb, I feel you. And as I said earlier, I urge you to support him and applaud your work. Nowhere in here have I said anything about NOT helping the guy out, just the responsibility level he has displayed. Anyways, I'll drop it, b/c I made my point, and I hope you guys get him a ticket!! We're into single digits now on the countdown so work fast!!
btw, dmb, i am 28 and have a son who will be 9 in a couple months, so as for the having kids young thing, we are in the same boat!! ;-P
word, dmb, I feel you. And as I said earlier, I urge you to support him and applaud your work. Nowhere in here have I said anything about NOT helping the guy out, just the responsibility level he has displayed. Anyways, I'll drop it, b/c I made my point, and I hope you guys get him a ticket!! We're into single digits now on the countdown so work fast!!
btw, dmb, i am 28 and have a son who will be 9 in a couple months, so as for the having kids young thing, we are in the same boat!! ;-P
As my wife and I have always said, the younger you have them, the younger YOU are when they are grown and out of the house!
Hopefully, we won't be so broke down and old that we can't get out and enjoy life!!!