Whether it's your first Bonnaroo or you’re a music festival veteran, we welcome you to Inforoo.
Here you'll find info about artists, rumors, camping tips, and the infamous Roo Clues. Have a look around then create an account and join in the fun. See you at Bonnaroo!!
Born in the L.A. area and my parents are from there. It's a dual citizenship as far as sports teams are concerned. Rooted for the Sixers when they faced the Lakers in the Finals in 2001. Haven't had much to root for with them since then. Anyway, carry on.
Born in the L.A. area and my parents are from there. It's a dual citizenship as far as sports teams are concerned. Rooted for the Sixers when they faced the Lakers in the Finals in 2001. Haven't had much to root for with them since then. Anyway, carry on.
And with the loss of Dougy C and Bynum eating dollar slices at the bowling ally its gonna be alot worse before it gets better. 2001 was magical...well for one game.
That was a good close game from start to finish. The Heat should still be able to come back in six or seven.
I really hate the argument of trying to compare Jordan and LeBron, and then In the same breath saying Jordan would never team up with another superstar. Ya know, someone like Hall of Famer Scottie fucking Pippen. Stop mentioning this argument! How many rings did Shaq win with the Magic? If you think a league like the NBA can be win by ONE player and not a team, you are crazy.Lebron joined an organization that was willing to work for a championship. Three straight finals. This series just started
That was a good close game from start to finish. The Heat should still be able to come back in six or seven.
I really hate the argument of trying to compare Jordan and LeBron, and then In the same breath saying Jordan would never team up with another superstar. Ya know, someone like Hall of Famer Scottie quacking Pippen. Stop mentioning this argument! How many rings did Shaq win with the Magic? If you think a league like the NBA can be win by ONE player and not a team, you are crazy.Lebron joined an organization that was willing to work for a championship. Three straight finals. This series just started
Pippen was as good as he was because of Jordan. And MJ won 6 rings with the team he was drafted to. He would have done it without Pippen if he had to, and would never have gone somewhere else for the help. I live how everyone leaves out Bosch too. The big THREE remember? How quickly Scottie forgets....
You can't just make those kinds of assumptions.. "Pippen was a Hall of Famer because of Jordan" but he wouldn't have been without Jordan? You don't know that. "Jordan would have won his championships without Pippen." You know this how?
Post by Longtime and Frequent Poster on Jun 7, 2013 8:34:24 GMT -5
Pippen set career highs in PPG and RPG the one full year Jordan was gone playing baseball. Clearly, MJ was holding him back and wasn't a good teammate.
And the physical play didn't impact Jordan as much because he didn't play inside.
Just curious how the fact that MJ was a guard and not a post player banging it out on the low block every possession got turned into "MJ is soft and never went in the paint."
Pippen was as good as he was because of Jordan. And MJ won 6 rings with the team he was drafted to. He would have done it without Pippen if he had to, and would never have gone somewhere else for the help. I live how everyone leaves out Bosch too. The big THREE remember? How quickly Scottie forgets....
Dude, it is Bosh. And he sucks. 13 & 5 from a near-max contract player, who we're supposed to believe took a discount to play in Miami?
Let's put this to bed immediately. Pippen is one of the 25 best basketball players that have played in the NBA. He could score, shoot 3's, rebound, pass and defend as well as anyone including Jordan. Jordan didn't win without Pippen, but people hold his losing to the Knicks against him (this seems unfair). Could Jordan have won without Pippen? Maybe if he had John Stockton or Charles Barkley or Kevin McHale in the early years. Pippen is on a tier of HOF players with those guys, so to act like Jordan could have gotten any random all-star and won 6 rings is pretty ridiculous.
Pippen set career highs in PPG and RPG the one full year Jordan was gone playing baseball. Clearly, MJ was holding him back and wasn't a good teammate.
That's true, but when Jordan came back the next year Pippen's ppg and rpg both only went down by 0.6. That was his prime, so I think his 20/8/5 numbers would've been similar to those with or without Jordan. He and Jordan complemented each other perfectly. Pippen showed an offense could go through him (he was first in points and assists that '93-'94 season), but he lost to the Knicks in 7 (and pouted on the bench when they gave the last shot to Kukoc...that went in). I think it's fair to argue that without Pippen Jordan doesn't win six (in fact, I agree with that statement), but I don't think Jordan held him back, his best season was only marginally better than his 2nd best, which was with Jordan. Pippen was a top-25ish player all-time, I don't think that changes if he was drafted by Seattle or something and was the man for his entire career.
Post by Longtime and Frequent Poster on Jun 7, 2013 9:24:44 GMT -5
Sorry flanz, thought it would've been obvious the second part of my post was sarcasm.
And I realize it can be super hard to quantify defense beyond steals/blocks/def. rebounding/etc., which probably underrates Pippen to an extent, but I really don't see Pippen as all that close to Barkley. Or even Stockton.
Post by Mista Don't Play on Jun 7, 2013 9:27:49 GMT -5
I don't see him as being quite on the level of Barkley, Malone, etc. But he is a great player. One of the most versatile ever. Any attempt to imply he would not have been really good without Jordan is just idiocy.
I think Barkley out of that group is probably a reach, but I think Stockton is fair. He couldn't lead a team to a Finals on his own, but he had a perfect complement to his skills in Malone. It's a similar situation to Pippen's, I think.
And dammit, I suck at reading sarcasm when I'm "not low."
When did I say Pippen wouldn't have been good if it wasn't for Jordan? I said he was as good as he was because of Jordan. Would he have been a great player still? Sure. But when you have someone on the court that demands that level of attention, everyone else's stats and play benefits. Same goes for expectation and asperation. With a player like that on your team (not just skill wise but the effort and determination aspect as well) any self respecting competitive teammate is going to have his game raised, through motivation and the proverbial carrot on a stick. Jordan played every second he could on that court, and played with 100% intensity 100% of the time. Remember the flu game? And hind sight is 20/20 so stop talking about how wade is hurt and Bosch was a bust. I Lebron knew that was the case before he signed, he wouldn't have signed, or thrown a 2 hour special with fireworks and all that jazz. Your missing the point there.
It. Is. Bosh. Christopher Wesson Bosh. Bosch is the sleazebag that tried to get hush money from A-Rod on this steroid thing. Bosh isn't sleazy, he's just overpaid.
As far as Pippen goes, the statement you made was that he was only as good as he was because of Jordan. I (and pretty much everyone else) believes this to be wrong, supported by the fact that anyone who has an opinion that matters puts him in the top-25/30 players of all-time and the fact that when Jordan took his "sabbatical" (suspension for gambling), Pippen had his best season and the Bulls were a win away from making the finals. The idea that Jordan could have "gone somewhere else for help" is false. Pippen wasn't just another good player, he was a great player, one of the best in his generation of stars. It was pure luck that he ended up on the same team as the best player ever. It benefited both guys, not just Pippen. The point you're ignoring (well, one of them) is that Pippen was the same type of player Jordan was, he made everyone around him better. Again, the reason that team was so special was because they had Jordan and Pippen. They were a duo and to say that any good wing player could have filled in and gotten the same results is an in-f*cking-sane thing to say.
And regarding the Heat, it isn't hindsight. Wade is always hurt and it's not a surprise it's starting to catch up with him. He's a shooting guard on the wrong side of 30 who has hit the hardwood more than any of his peers have. He looked okay last night, but he's still not playing like the guy he was 2 years ago and it's reasonable to think this is going to be a recurring theme. And the majority feeling on Bosh was that he was overpaid. He was a good player who racked up big #'s on a terrible team, and never seemed like he cared. He was never a physical player, and if your best interior player is soft (cough*Brook Lopez*cough) it is such a huge disadvantage in the playoffs. LeBron is playing out of his mind. He has a bunch of guys with huge flaws around him so he has to be the best rebounder, scorer, distributor and defender on his team for the entire series and even that might not be enough some nights. If you want to talk about hindsight, LeBron was always going to do this, he wanted to play with his best buddies in South Beach. I don't think he regrets it, but when you have a Big 3 with two players with predictable flaws, even the best player in the league can't overcome them every night.
Just curious how the fact that MJ was a guard and not a post player banging it out on the low block every possession got turned into "MJ is soft and never went in the paint."
C'mon, man, you're better than that.
Probably because that wasn't implied in your initial response, at all. Someone made a comment about Jordan hailing from a much more physical era of basketball, which he does. And your reply was that the physical play didn't affect Jordan because he didn't play inside. You didn't make a distinction that you believed it didn't have any ramifications on him because he wasn't a post player.
Either way, I'm not trying to say you think MJ is soft because, well, you're better than that, man. All I'm saying is that your line of thinking was incredibly flawed when you know the man had to overcome one of the most prolific physical teams of all time in the Bad Boy Pistons, in order to win a series in the Finals. MJ did indeed play in a more physical era, that did indeed affect him (whether he played "inside" or not), and his legacy is all the more strengthened because he played at that time and because he didn't allow the dirty antics and physical play to get the better of him. He rose to the occasion, swept the Pistons in 4 games, and then ripped the throne of basketball supremacy from Magic.
Maybe, instead of trying to use your awesome little quips like, "Oh you guys can't read," or "C'mon man," you could respond to my replies with an actual response that clarifies your earlier statement. Then we could actually have a stimulating conversation instead of me feeling the need to show you just how good Jordan was physically "inside."
I said he never would have gone anywhere else for the help, not that he could have. And yes he could have had equal or better help if the right deal with the right players was made. That's not my point though, my point is that he never would have. And your not making sense, Pippen came to the bulls and imediately had Jordan as a mentor. He did not play without Jordan untill 93.....he was drafted and traded in 87....there is no body of work without Jordan until then. How can you say he would have gotten there without the guidance of the greatest player of all time? By the time he played without Jordan he already had six years of playing one on one, and being mentored with/by the best player on earth. He's in the top 25-30 players of all time because of MJ. Without any NBA history prior to having MJ mentor him, you can't say he was going to be that good regardless. 6 years is a lot of time to hone ones skills, and it only makes sense that when your sharpening your sword with the best possible tool, you have a better edge than the rest if the field. And no, Lebron didn't want to just play with his buddies in south beach. If his buddies were trash or even just good, it would have never crossed his mind.