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Do you think it's 70/30 because more women don't want to be musicians or 70/30 because the industry's decision maker landscape is a sausage fest that gives more chances to men over women? I don't expect Coachella to book a 50/50 lineup, but the idea that a festival that is as close to printing money as any in the states doesn't have a significant role to play in making the music/festival industry more gender equitable is laughable.
Btw, that whole thing wasn't targeted at you. The initial point just started the thought.
But how would you prove any of that?
Why wouldn't decision makers just pick what would sell?
Women listen to more pop than men do. There are probably more big name female pop stars (just pop, not counting r&b or rap like drake), thats not an issue right?
This argument might hold more credence if the fest had sold well.
I think the barriers to entry in the music industry are wildly lower today than ever before considering you can just make a shitty album in your bedroom and get up on Spotify or whatever.
If we had the perfect study I suppose you'd look at the amount of men who attempt to be musicians and fail vs the amount of women who attempt to be musicians and fail.
To me that's the same argument as, "Anybody can start a business these days." Sure that makes sense until you look at the data and all that it shows is that most people who successfully start a business had socio-economic advantages that gave them the easy path at best and golden parachute to land with at worst. I just don't see how it's controversial to say that it's significantly harder for women to make it in the music industry when we've seen this played out literally everywhere else.
The business thing is not analogous for obvious reasons. And also, you have not presented any data at all.
Also is systemic sexism that much more fierce than systemic racism? I have a sneaking suspicion that black ppl represent more than 13% of musicians. And certainly more than 13% of successful musicians.
But again Im just going off of the 70/30 stat that nobody is really sure of. Would be nice to see a study done on all of this.
Based on average critic reviews, 25/40 of the best albums of 2019 were made by women.
I think you are on to something here, honestly. Can you look at the top 150 albums (rough amount of coach artists)? I think itd be totally reasonable to think coachellas ratio should aspire to be in line with that one.
Not trying to give you HW. Were you using metacritic? Ill do it.
To me that's the same argument as, "Anybody can start a business these days." Sure that makes sense until you look at the data and all that it shows is that most people who successfully start a business had socio-economic advantages that gave them the easy path at best and golden parachute to land with at worst. I just don't see how it's controversial to say that it's significantly harder for women to make it in the music industry when we've seen this played out literally everywhere else.
The business thing is not analogous for obvious reasons. And also, you have not presented any data at all.
Also is systemic sexism that much more fierce than systemic racism? I have a sneaking suspicion that black ppl represent more than 13% of musicians. And certainly more than 13% of successful musicians.
But again Im just going off of the 70/30 stat that nobody is really sure of. Would be nice to see a study done on all of this.
I'm assuming you're asking for data related to the business piece, since I posted data/articles for the music part on the previous page. Here you go.
If the top acts on Spotify are close to 50/50 men/women, I don’t see why we should just assume the “talent pool” is 70/30.
I get that this conversation can be difficult in the abstract, but a lot of people in this thread have also spent the last two weeks complaining that they wished Coachella had booked specific women instead. “They should have booked Octo Octa” is basically the free square in the whine about Coachella 2020 bingo card.
I guess Coachella does deserve a cookie for being better than Bonnaroo, but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t try harder next year.
There are literally only an extra couple of female names that are very popular charting wise that would have made at least some sense sonically wise and been on the 2nd line (what we are mostly talking about right?)
Others either were just here (billie, Ariana), don't make sense (this isn't iHeartRadio), or weren't ready with new music it looks like
And on Spotify most followed top 25, 8 of the 25 are women
For the top 20 of last month, its 9 out of 20. But this changes each month. Mariah Carey is here b/c it was just Christmas time. And "Tones and I" (one big song?) is on here
If this whole argument is literally that we didn't get 1-2 of Halsey, Camila, Dua Lipa, Robyn, or Missy, that is such a small part of the lineup
Chickens and eggs, guys. There's preexisting misogyny in the music industry (hopefully we can accept that as a given), which discourages women from making music. This results in there then being less women to book, potentially reinforcing the originally system unless proactive measures are made to change it. This both explains A) why are isn't as much female representation and B) there needs to be. It's pretty analagous to affirmative action arguments, imo. It's a good idea overall, might have some negative effects for some people or groups in the short term, but overall it's beneficial for a larger-scale trajectory towards being in a place where this conversation doesn't need to happen in the first place (because a bunch more women are making badass music after seeing that more women can and will make it in the music industry).
5.5/four tet, daphni b2b floating points, avalon emerson 5.12/neil young 5.19/mannequin pussy 5.21/serpentwithfeet 5.25/hozier 6.12-16/bonnaroo 6.28/goose 6.29/goose 9.17/the national + the war on drugs 9.23/sigur ros 9.27-29/making time 10.17/air
Changing the topic a bit, Summer Walker, Ari Lennox, and Mariah the Scientist are three amazing R&B acts I've listened to for the first time today and highly recommended.
I didn't really wanna make things harder for Saturday, but
To just provide another data point while acknowledging it’s not an exact comparison by any stretch, Pitchfork has also booked 50/50 gender balanced lineups for two years now and never formally announced that they were doing so.
ACL has also been at like 45% for two years and is probably the best Coachella comparison (major fest, in the US, two weekends, etc)
Based on average critic reviews, 25/40 of the best albums of 2019 were made by women.
I think you are on to something here, honestly. Can you look at the top 150 albums (rough amount of coach artists)? I think itd be totally reasonable to think coachellas ratio should aspire to be in line with that one.
Not trying to give you HW. Were you using metacritic? Ill do it.
stopped at 100, 56 out of the top 100 featured women via Metacritic.
I think you are on to something here, honestly. Can you look at the top 150 albums (rough amount of coach artists)? I think itd be totally reasonable to think coachellas ratio should aspire to be in line with that one.
Not trying to give you HW. Were you using metacritic? Ill do it.
stopped at 100, 56 out of the top 100 featured women via Metacritic.
I think there is an argument to be made that this number is what Coachella should try to get closer to. Or at least what I would want to get closer to if I was booking a fest. Of course, it could be different year to year, but I’d generally be hyped to go to a fest that tried to book the most critically acclaimed stuff from the year prior.
I feel like a lot of this is less about booking women, and more about booking too much Pop towards the top. They aren't booking Dua, Camila, Miley, Katy, Taylor, Selena Gomez but also aren't booking Ed Sheeran, The Jonas Brothers, Justin Bieber, Maroon 5, Shawn Mendes etc. Majority of those top Spotify acts are Pop acts. We got Ariana/Billie/Solange/Janelle Monae/BLACKPINK/CHVRCHES last year and with acts like Kacey Musgraves/Lizzo/Maggie/Ella Mai/Christine and the Queens/H.E.R. on the 3rd line. If repeated this year, Billie is a sub at minimum, Kacey should have fallen in the 2nd line, Lizzo might be a sub, Maggie second line, H.E.R. second line. Coachella booked a lot of them right before they really took off. Even a Clairo or Rosalia would get a pretty big bump from last year. I do think Coachella probably could have gotten more bigger female acts than they did, but I don't think they did it intentionally as a gender thing, more of a sound thing. (Which I do think Pop deserves more slots than it gets)
Post by TickleMeElmo on Jan 13, 2020 0:24:02 GMT -5
Glad I missed out on this shitshow today.
What's funny is that Coachella has made the most progress toward gender equality over nearly ANY other major festival (including bumping up female acts like Janelle Monáe and HAIM to sub when they shouldn't have) yet people still shit on Coachella for not doing their part.
For the techno fans out there, what do you think of ANNA? I don't know much about her but her essential mix from December 2019 was good. What's her live show like?
Are Panorama, FYF and P4K considered majors? If not, then I guess so yeah.
FYF was getting there just due to its growth. P4k is still small and hasnt tried to increase their capacity or scope at all in 15 years, but theyve done one of the better jobs at trying to balance things as much as they can gender wise. They almost had 50/50 split last year, plus 2 female headliners.
Post by TickleMeElmo on Jan 13, 2020 2:39:12 GMT -5
Just a little thing I worked on before I post this on Reddit. FYI the Oasis Dome was introduced in 2011 (one year only), Yuma introduced in 2013 and Sonora introduced in 2017.
And for various reasons, here's how the lineups stack up if you remove those extra stages mentioned earlier.
What's funny is that Coachella has made the most progress toward gender equality over nearly ANY other major festival (including bumping up female acts like Janelle Monáe and HAIM to sub when they shouldn't have) yet people still shit on Coachella for not doing their part.
That’s what I said earlier today, but didn’t dig myself deeper into the back-and-forth yesterday.
For the techno fans out there, what do you think of ANNA? I don't know much about her but her essential mix from December 2019 was good. What's her live show like?
Her set will likely be similar to her Essential Mix. She throws her originals and remixes into her sets.
Just a little thing I worked on before I post this on Reddit. FYI the Oasis Dome was introduced in 2011 (one year only), Yuma introduced in 2013 and Sonora introduced in 2017.
And for various reasons, here's how the lineups stack up if you remove those extra stages mentioned earlier.
theres no good way to do this but this would be better with a power score aspect where the higher slotted on the poster the artist is, the more "valuable" they are from a genre perspective. Then you wouldnt be valuing the Cirque du Soliel guy's DJ set the same as Rage Against the Machine.
Post by Whereispassionpit on Jan 13, 2020 13:25:00 GMT -5
Some other female acts that have played other festivals recently that would have been cool at Coachella: PJ Harvey, Fiona Apple, Courtney Barnett, Janet Jackson, Sharon Van Etten, Grace Jones, Bikini Kill, Kylie Minogue, Sleater Kinney, Boygenius, Brittany Howard, Jenny Hval, Brandi Carlile.
Post by wufinancial on Jan 13, 2020 13:47:02 GMT -5
No acts like DREAMS or DREAMCAR this year? Feels weird not having a side project that we've never heard about with the word dream in all caps on the lineup this year.
Pearl Jam doing 2 nights at the forum during Coachella pretty much deads Pearl ever headlining Coachella right?
Why ever?
Cause this is the last “perfect timing” as album cycles and festival demographics change. If not now then when? Not like they’re just pumping albums out
Some other female acts that have played other festivals recently that would have been cool at Coachella: PJ Harvey, Fiona Apple, Courtney Barnett, Janet Jackson, Sharon Van Etten, Grace Jones, Bikini Kill, Kylie Minogue, Sleater Kinney, Boygenius, Brittany Howard, Jenny Hval, Brandi Carlile.
Would have liked Portishead, Little Dragon, Jean Grae, Savages or Jehnny Beth, Warpaint, SHAED, Stonefield, Sheer Mag, Mija, Magda, Yes Alexander, Sia, Bjork, Liz Phair.
Cause this is the last “perfect timing” as album cycles and festival demographics change. If not now then when? Not like they’re just pumping albums out
Yeah but this was a pretty big gap between albums for them. Usually has been about 3-4 years, not 7. So maybe down the road it could still happen. Also, Coachella has booked some bands the year after their album dropped (Radioihead in 2017, Jack White in 2015.)