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I kinda think the prospects for her staying in the race are growing. The more light that gets shed on this whole Rezko deal, the shadier Obama looks. Even though he didn't do anything illegal. I think the Clinton campaign might want to keep this going cause the trail gets going in a month. I guess I have absolutely no faith in her to be unselfish. I feel like she'll do whatever she has to do, up to and including, destroying any party unity. I hope I'm wrong and Obama puts a good spanking on her tomorrow and puts her down once and for all.
I don't think Hillary will step down voluntarily unless she loses everything badly. As I said earlier, it will be up to the Superdelegates to confront her and let her know she can drop out and save face or be shamefully forced out. Of course that is assuming the SD's do their job and look out for the good of the Party.
The worst thing would be for Hillary to win TX and OH and convince a significant number of SD's to stick with her. Then the Dems can continue to do McCain's job of tearing down their own candidates.
Let's hope the Party is smarter than that (but their past actions leave much doubt.)
BTW, nice poster, Becs!
Last Edit: Mar 3, 2008 20:53:20 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
Some people from the Hilary camp are looking at having the Fla and MI delagates count after they agreed to not count them as a penalty before the primary and before she won in them. If she getsmore delgates and are just a few off you will see court filings and petitions
It will be irrelevant if the majority of Superdelegates grow some balls and do what's best for the Party. Otherwise it will get ugly, guaranteed.
BTW I've been talking to lot of TN Obama delegate to show them the wisdom of getting on the Credentials Committee at the Convention. This committe could decide whether the FL and MI delegates are accepted and get to vote. But let's hope it doesn't come down to that
Last Edit: Mar 3, 2008 21:29:00 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
Post by rideincircles on Mar 4, 2008 1:30:17 GMT -5
ITs Texas voting day tomorrow, but I am not gonna make it since I will be heading to Dallas to see Justice. Go Obamacat. someone add some corn to the obamacat picture. Obamacorncat.
I don't know about Michigan, but Florida Gov. Crist is looking into conducting a Democratic re-vote sometime before the convention.
I'm pretty sure with Obama actually on the ballot the second time around, Hillary won't be winning with 60% of the votes. It will give her some delegates, yes, but I don't think it would erode Obama's delegate lead.
I don't know about Michigan, but Florida Gov. Crist is looking into conducting a Democratic re-vote sometime before the convention.
I'm pretty sure with Obama actually on the ballot the second time around, Hillary won't be winning with 60% of the votes. It will give her some delegates, yes, but I don't think it would erode Obama's delegate lead.
Unless she has something up her sleeve that will give her an edge in that state.
Post by GratefulHippie on Mar 4, 2008 12:24:47 GMT -5
YAY!!!!! i just did a search for my precinct and where i can vote. i wasn't sure that i could because they put a 30 day hold on new registrations, and i had just changed mine to travis county, but apparently i'm officially registered and ready to go!!!
As far as what would give Hillary an edge in Florida: Jews and Hispanics. Obama has not done terribly well courting either of these groups, which could prove to her advantage in a rematch.
I'm disappointed that I even have to be discussing a hypothetical state re-vote. Something's got to be done.
If there needs to be a re-count, it should be in NY. Sure she was going to win NY, but I was told that some parts (such as Harlem) didn't vote for Obama. I have a hard time believing that one.
I think the conversation has already started. Bill Richardson was on Face the Nation on Sunday and called for a reduction in the number of super delegates.
I also think that having the convention soooooo late is a problem. It should be sooner so that it could actually count for something.
And I'm happy that states were penalized for having super early primaries - and that the new Super Tuesday backfired. Next time states will stop getting all overanxious.
Post by ronburgandy? on Mar 4, 2008 13:46:22 GMT -5
i think its absolutely ludicrious that so few states decide the primaries.
they should have 4 dates where EVERY state is put into one of those four dates for the primary vote.
i live in PA (one of the biggest and most important states come general election time) and i have never voted in a primary. although there is a shot that it could happen this year if hillary stays in.
Post by SouthGA_Festival Machine on Mar 4, 2008 13:49:47 GMT -5
dcbee said:
I think the conversation has already started. Bill Richardson was on Face the Nation on Sunday and called for a reduction in the number of super delegates.
I also think that having the convention soooooo late is a problem. It should be sooner so that it could actually count for something.
And I'm happy that states were penalized for having super early primaries - and that the new Super Tuesday backfired. Next time states will stop getting all overanxious.
There needs to be some sort of national standardization of elections. The present system is a joke. I think all primaries should be held on the same day. I don't see any other way to avoid disenfranchising voters. Also the early primaries give way too much relative power to voters in those states. Hopefully some benevolent democracy, such as Iraq or Russia will one day manage to help establish a true democray in this flying spaghetti monster forsaken country.
One problem with having all primaries on the same day is that the small states will get ignored in favor of CA, NY, TX and such, just like in the general.
I do understand why NH and IA like to be first - they're so tiny that otherwise they'd be completely overlooked.
And really, even today, everyone's only talking about OH and TX, but there are also primaries in RI and VT.
Maybe regional primaries? Like all New England this week. Next week, Mid-Atlantic. Then Midwest. Etc.
Sorry, sorry - how about a different state each hour? NH at 1am, IA at 2am. Then Ohio can be at 10pm on Day 2 so they can wait and see what everyone else has done.
I mean, the media declares the winner of each state before polls close anyway
Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 4, 2008 14:20:38 GMT -5
States rights are what the party machinery cloaks itself in on this issue.
But it's BS. In this day and age of information availability, one should question ANY organization that is against the premise of one person, one vote.
Is a president REALLY free to unjustly favor his/her home state in this day and age ? Or is it more important that the holders of the big bucks can keep holding the big bucks via shenanigans like Super Delegates or an endlessly expensive primary season ?
There are zero regulations in place to prevent states from getting overanxious. That is part of the problem.
Superdelegates - there's not much that can be done. Political parties are technically private organizations and can conduct their nomination process as they see fit. That's how the whole Florida/Michigan mess happened in the first place.
There is absolutely nothing in place at the moment to prevent states from doing this in the future. Per U.S. Constitution - Article I, Section 2, Clause 1: The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof (I omitted the second part of it, but that was overridden via amendment in 1913)
So for the time being, there is nothing to prevent a repeat of this debacle in 2012 and beyond. Not without a multi-state agreement or a constitutional amendment to supercede the current order.
The main primary reform proposals are: Rotating Regional Primaries System Keep Iowa & New Hampshire in their starting positions. Divide the rest of the country up into four regions (East, West, Midwest and South) and determine order through a random lottery. Regions would rotate according to lottery results from then on, with each region starting off every 16 years. Regional primaries are spaced out over the course of one month, at which point the next region begins to hold their contests. National Primary Fuck this shit. I'm not even gonna get into it, as I feel it only exacerbates the dilemma that we're discussing. Graduated Random Presidential Primary System Ten primaries, each two weeks apart. Primaries are grouped by number of EC votes - 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64, 72, and 80. The group of eight goes first. Random draw determines the order of rounds 2-10 as well as the states/territories which participate in each round.
I prefer the graduated random system. It does not have the regional bias inherent in the regional rotating system. It preserves the tradition of small states going first. I think the small geographic range and up-close retail politicking are beneficial to the process. This keeps the playing field level for lesser-funded/known candidates and gives upstarts a chance to gain momentum. It negates the primary pile-up we've seen this year. States are assigned election dates and there's no rush to the front of the line. The regional rotating system doesn't prevent the possibility of 11 or 13 states voting on single days in four large primaries. If it's randomly drawn, there's no issue of squabbling between states over who goes first. All in all, I think it's the most fair and orderly proposal I've seen. Too bad it probably won't happen in my lifetime.
If there needs to be a re-count, it should be in NY. Sure she was going to win NY, but I was told that some parts (such as Harlem) didn't vote for Obama. I have a hard time believing that one. [/quote
Bill Clinton has his office in Harlem and goes there all the time and talks to people. He is very well liked in Harlem