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Huckabee said that McCain made a "huge mistake" in even floating the idea of not showing up for the debate. I would have to agree. That really doesn't show any sort of strength. It makes him look like a huge b!tch.
It might not work on us here in the Bonnaroo crowd, but it could work better with other parts of the electorate.
From what I heard, McCain over-performed and Obama under-performed - so a draw, maybe slight edge for Mac as far as I'm concerned. (I was stuck listening to NPR at work and wasn't able to give it the attention it deserved.) Although it certainly didn't convert me to McCain, I can see where it would boost him with undecided voters - where it counts at this point.
McCain stuck to his message better and seemed to control things better than Obama did. I think he got more aggressive than necessary attacking Obama at times, but that kept him on the defensive. He stretched the truth a bit more than Obama, as far as I can tell. Obama definitely won on style and seemed more collected, trying to toss the ball back to Lehrer when Mac started getting out of line. I could tell he was trying to, but didn't quite, push the right buttons and get Mac to blow his temper. He was getting close, though, if I read Mac's voice right. Though it seemed lacking in any particular moment or soundbite, I think that overall this was better than your average debate. You could probably argue that they both appeared presidential tonight. Hopefully, this was just a preview of what we're in store for.
And since I can't not Ann Coulter about this: Jim Lehrer WTF?! Pre-debate, I don't think I was unreasonable thinking that it was going to be the candidates trying to fit in as much economic/bailout talk as they could with the moderator steering them back to foreign policy. This was the foreign policy debate, after all... but what I anticipated got flipped. This was supposed to be McCain's turf, and Obama was able to hold his own there. Was I not paying attention, or were there no questions about Israel-Palestine, immigration, North Korea or at least a few of the other usual suspects? I'm sure at least a third of the foreign policy debate time went to the economy. There's already an economic debate in a couple weeks, and by then we'll probably have more details on the bailout's final version, passage/failure, recorded candidate votes, etc. Save it for then. I also think he should've been more of an enforcer. Too much "I'm rubber/you're glue" allegation swapping/dodging happened on his watch with neither of them being taken to task on it. (NPR had live fact-checking of the debate online, or so I heard, and I'm going to try to look at both that and video of the debate at the same time sometime this weekend.) That was probably the part about the whole debate that irritated me most. Tonight I realized just how much I miss Tim Russert.
Post by lakai2788 on Sept 28, 2008 14:49:23 GMT -5
yeah, jim lehrer was horrible. has anyone seen the new Obama ad? its pretty good I didnt even realize it during the debate but McCain didnt mention the middle class once all night. I'm pretty sure he doesnt know we exist.
Ok, I understand that the bailout forces the burden on the taxpayers. But don't the effects of no bailout (Depression) outweigh an increased tax forced by the bailout?
Post by steveternal on Sept 29, 2008 17:36:06 GMT -5
^^^Depends on who you listen to, I guess. I'm not knowledgeable on the subject, but I've heard arguments that the effects of the mortgage and stock market crises will only really be felt by the rich kids that made the mess in the first place, and that they are the ones pressing the government to fix the problem and help *them* out. If that were true, then of course us joe schmoes* wouldn't want this or any such bill passed.
*I'm just assuming here that you make less than $50,000,000 a year. Nothing personal.
Post by jray05stang on Sept 29, 2008 18:40:13 GMT -5
I currently attend the University of Mississippi where the first Debate was held... It was an amazing atmosphere... I attended the official Republican debate watch party here in town to watch the debate... To everyone's surprise Mccain showed up at the watch party right after the Debate... Everyone figured he would just jet out of town immediately but he stood around and shook everyone's hand... Obama left the city no longer than 20 minutes after the Debate...
I currently attend the University of Mississippi where the first Debate was held... It was an amazing atmosphere... I attended the official Republican debate watch party here in town to watch the debate... To everyone's surprise Mccain showed up at the watch party right after the Debate... Everyone figured he would just jet out of town immediately but he stood around and shook everyone's hand... Obama left the city no longer than 20 minutes after the Debate...
Sometimes its about where to put your energy. There is no way Obama can win Mississippi but has some leaning states he can pull off. I dont think it is something about or against Mississippe but more about a little time to get people in swing states to go his way.
I currently attend the University of Mississippi where the first Debate was held... It was an amazing atmosphere... I attended the official Republican debate watch party here in town to watch the debate... To everyone's surprise Mccain showed up at the watch party right after the Debate... Everyone figured he would just jet out of town immediately but he stood around and shook everyone's hand... Obama left the city no longer than 20 minutes after the Debate...
To be fair Your implication is?
Help me to understand your point. I'm interested to know how that negates the larger points of this election.
I absolutely do not want come off bashing anyone here I simply don't understand what you’re saying
Post by strumntheguitar on Sept 29, 2008 19:24:16 GMT -5
I think both McCain and Obama have shaken their fair share of hands the past few months. Whether or not one of them sticks around to do so is insignificant and by no means represents their character, morals, or opinion of a certain community.
And with the failing of this bailout plan I think McCain has taken another blow. He "suspended" his campaign to focus solely on getting that bill passed. So what happens when McCain focuses all of his time and effort on getting something passed?
Post by jray05stang on Sept 29, 2008 21:08:27 GMT -5
What I was mainly aiming at was Mccain was the one who made the big fuss about as soon as the Debate was over he would be heading back to Washington... We all figured he would have been the first one to leave town... We just all found it interesting that Mccain stuck around to meet his supporters here while Obama didnt...
Post by jray05stang on Sept 29, 2008 21:12:22 GMT -5
Plus I will never vote for Obama because of his Vice Presidential candidate... Biden is anti 2nd Amendment... And to me a gun owner that is huge... Obama and Biden both want to not only ban guns that I currently own that are legal but they also want to tax ammunition so heavily that only the richest people can afford to shoot a gun! I currently own 7 guns but only have 1 vote... and that will be for Mccain...
Post by jray05stang on Sept 29, 2008 21:18:09 GMT -5
"and reinstating the assault weapons ban, so that guns do not fall into the hands of terrorists or criminals"... The Assault Weapons Ban was one major FAIL in legislation... Biden does not know an assault weapon from a BB gun... Under his definition assault weapon its basically any gun that looks scary... The legal to buy "Black Guns" in America are all semi automatic... a Semi Automatic gun is not an assault weapon... It was proven that under the assault weapon ban gun related deaths did not fall at all... It was such a failed piece of legislation that when its "sunset" period came and went and Congress had the chance to reenact it they voted not to... If Biden gets put into office and in the head spot in the Senate he will enact a new tougher weapon ban that will suspend 2nd Amendment rights...
My opinion on the bail out bill is mixed. I tend towards leaning against it as I feel it is just delaying the inevitable. We are borrowing to avoid a possible Depression that is brought on by monetary mismanagement. But we are now so far in debt and have no real economic base so I feel that some sort of Depression is evitable. If we delay the pain is will be worse later.
On the other hand, the idea is apparently we can start paying the debt and spread the pain over a lot of years so it won't feel so bad. But I tend to think things have gone too far for that.
I'm leaning towards just getting the hard times over with. Maybe they will convince people once again of the usefulness of regulating business, supporting manufacturing in an economy and the importance of supporting Unions and fair worker's wages/benfits.
It will be tough but we can't continue borrowing forever. We have to pay the bill some day. Today might be that day.
Post by jray05stang on Sept 29, 2008 23:58:11 GMT -5
I totally agree with you Troo... Its ridiculous how much we think we can "spend"... The government as a whole has dug us into this situation over many many years... Not just the Bush years... Frugal spending has doomed our economy...
What I was mainly aiming at was Mccain was the one who made the big fuss about as soon as the Debate was over he would be heading back to Washington... We all figured he would have been the first one to leave town... We just all found it interesting that Mccain stuck around to meet his supporters here while Obama didnt...
OK I understand now, thankyou jray05stang I glad to know it was a good experience for you.
Post by jray05stang on Sept 30, 2008 1:15:58 GMT -5
It was a really cool experience! Our small town did not have enough hotel rooms to put up the 3000+ reporters and journalist for the weekend... So me and my roommates rented out our house to some very cool people from BBC of all stations lol... it was a very cool experience for our small town...
My opinion on the bail out bill is mixed. I tend towards leaning against it as I feel it is just delaying the inevitable. We are borrowing to avoid a possible Depression that is brought on by monetary mismanagement. But we are now so far in debt and have no real economic base so I feel that some sort of Depression is evitable. If we delay the pain is will be worse later.
On the other hand, the idea is apparently we can start paying the debt and spread the pain over a lot of years so it won't feel so bad. But I tend to think things have gone too far for that.
I'm leaning towards just getting the hard times over with. Maybe they will convince people once again of the usefulness of regulating business, supporting manufacturing in an economy and the importance of supporting Unions and fair worker's wages/benfits.
It will be tough but we can't continue borrowing forever. We have to pay the bill some day. Today might be that day.
I can’t say I totally agree with this premise
The government acquisition of unvalued assets to be held until there is a profitable time to sell these assets to add a much needed liquidity to the market is unpalatable but these are strange times. I must say this is a hard one to have a crystal clear view on. Needless to say how is it we've come to find ourselves in this condition?
Our current situation is entirely due to the Republican philosophy of the past 3 decades of deregulation and non-supervision of corporations and the markets. The purpose of regulations are to moderate the potential for abuse and smooth the wild swings that are inherent in a totally free market.
Your view on acquired assets is the upside of the coin, but no one can tell which side the coin will land on. In the 1930's this strategy worked but in the late 80's the public never came close to making their money back.
That's why I'm torn about the bail-out. IMHO the only way we stand any chance of getting a significant portion of our money back is if it comes with massive government oversight. Republicans would be against that too.
Plus I will never vote for Obama because of his Vice Presidential candidate... Biden is anti 2nd Amendment... And to me a gun owner that is huge... Obama and Biden both want to not only ban guns that I currently own that are legal but they also want to tax ammunition so heavily that only the richest people can afford to shoot a gun! I currently own 7 guns but only have 1 vote... and that will be for Mccain...
I'm just curious, so you think Palin is a better choice? She who fires librarians because they won't take books of the shelves? she who charges rape victims for their own rape kits? she who wants to teach creationism in schools?
I currently own 7 guns but only have 1 vote... and that will be for Mccain...
So you're saying that out of ALL the issues out there (economy, iraq, etc) the the biggest issue for you is guns? People want to criticize Obama for the 'bitter' comments, but this is exactly what he was talking about.