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Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 5, 2008 9:44:18 GMT -5
I hear ya. Lovelock was the king of predicting all of this.
The Gaia premise-to believe that he was SO dismissed, and THEN, SO embraced.
But I believe there is still purpose in sustainability. Even if the battle is lost. It does not mean it was the wrong way to live, it just means too little people found the way, too late. There is still great value in producing organic food sustainably. Eating vegetarian and locally produced food. Nuclear energy-I'm not convinced on that one. And though he disses wind power, I think he totally skips over the potential of concentrated solar power(csp).
It may not save the world. There may not be ANY gratification in doing things the right way except that is how things must get done if we are in harmony with our setting. Not because it will save the earth, but because it could have. People still need to find value in how they live. For many of us, that value is in what we give rather than what we have.
With all the suffering to come, is there any question that the world will need your gifts ?
Stay with us and fight the good fight. We may not win, but life is about how we play the game, not the trophy we covet. Just as the planet is a living breathing organism, so is the body of our soul. And just as our body learns how to die, so must our souls learn how to live.
Karma for having your finger on the pulse !
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2008 9:46:36 GMT -5 by koyaanisqatsi - Back to Top
I hear ya. Lovelock was the king of predicting all of this.
The Gaia premise-to believe that he was SO dismissed, and THEN, SO embraced.
But I believe there is still purpose in sustainability. Even if the battle is lost. It does not mean it was the wrong way to live, it just means too little people found the way, too late. There is still great value in producing organic food sustainably. Eating vegetarian and locally produced food. Nuclear energy-I'm not convinced on that one. And though he disses wind power, I think he totally skips over the potential of concentrated solar power(csp).
It may not save the world. There may not be ANY gratification in doing things the right way except that is how things must get done if we are in harmony with our setting. Not because it will save the earth, but because it could have. People still need to find value in how they live. For many of us, that value is in what we give rather than what we have.
With all the suffering to come, is there any question that the world will need your gifts ?
Stay with us and fight the good fight. We may not win, but life is about how we play the game, not the trophy we covet. Just as the planet is a living breathing organism, so is the body of our soul. And just as our body learns how to die, so must our souls learn how to live.
Karma for having your finger on the pulse !
That was just freakin' awesome. You made my day
I've really been going through a funk lately and I've come across several articles that are along the lines of this one. I never thought that we would be the ones to face a failed future, but I knew the day would eventually be coming where the planet decides to shake the human race off its back like a bunch of fleas.
I'm hopeful. How can I not be? I have two young children that I'm trying to raise into this messed up world. It's just hard to remain hopefull when the majority of humanity barells on down the tracks like a runaway train, oblivious to the bridge that's out around the bend.
Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 5, 2008 10:28:51 GMT -5
....thus defining your need to be a beacon of warning of the danger to come.
People won't wanna hear it. They'll point fingers at you. If it is a struggle, you'll know YOU are on the right track.
But you simply posting the article recharged MY hope in people for today.
So no matter what conclusion they tell you we will suffer, just make sure you live the way you know best.... .... and shine that light.
Offer your hope, and teach by your example.
We could have all been born during a much more boring time. Though I long for the peace of that type of life, I am propelled by the necessity to do what it takes to help alleviate suffering of those around me. Sometimes, that means preaching that those around me need to suffer a bit more, even. We are only as deep as that which is carved into us. And we should wear those scars as testaments to what we have been able to accomplish. The stories that move me deepest are those of success in a world of failure.
I see that we are about the same age and both from Ohio. Perhaps the like mindedness comes from our generation being the first to have lowered expectations of what this world offers us. Perhaps it's the tenacity developed from having lived in the rust belt. Whatever it is, it is a gift.
There is still great value in producing organic food sustainably.
People still need to find value in how they live.
So true. I urge people to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" for an impartial look at how these concepts are intertwined. More importantly, how small changes to lifestyle can have a profound impact.
Yeah, one of the "depressing" articles I read earlier this week was on how the world's current grain production was going up in price because it's directly tied to fossile fuels. Who knew petroleum was used in fertilizer? Also, since we use 5 lbs. of grain to produce 1 lb. of meat, meat prices will skyrocket as well, in the near future. The world could live fine on the current supply of grain, but since we are feeding a lot of it to livestock, there will be a grain shortage of people don't change their eating habits. And with China starting to adopt the "American" diet....I don't see that happening.
Sustainability is the only way to sustain life , by definition. I am amazed at how so many people can't understand a simple material balance. You cannot continue to take and not put back. And your waste has to go somewhere.
The real problem is we have populated the world to the point where we cannot help but change its whole dynamics. From the water cycle, carbon cycle, nitrogen cycle to instigating entirely new "cycles" with chemicals and genetic materials that will have effects that we can in no way predict. The Earth will be required to establish a new "balance" in which we are not guaranteed a place.
We also have not adapted to the fact that our technology has unforeseen consequences. We still ignore the chemical by-products we are consuming and dumping and pay no attention to the radiological materials and genetic variations we are releasing into the environment; radioactive waste that will be around for tens if not hundreds of thousands of years and genetic materials equivalent to millions of years of untested evolutionary "advancements."
I think we are heading into a future that is totally unpredictable but we are definitely in for tough times with droughts, floods, famine, disease, mass human migration, and likely nuclear war, all resulting a likely mass die-off. Human civilization cannot and will not continue as we know it for many more generations. And it is not guaranteed to continue at all.
Interesting time are surely ahead.
Sorry if I drone on, but environmental issues have been my passion for at least 30 years now. I'm past the "funk" phase and on to grudging acceptance (yes, it is like a grieving process.) I am determined to do what I can but realistic about the future. Humans are just not capable of rapid social adaptation require for such monumental changes that are necessary. We may be kind of like the dinosaurs but in fast forward.
In all this uncertainty, I choose to live optimistically and find joy in doing what little I can. Doing the right thing is, as our mothers said after all, it's own reward. And since it is all a crapshhot, who knows? We few may yet be the start of something longterm and beneficial.
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2008 11:46:51 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
Post by SouthGA_Festival Machine on Mar 5, 2008 11:33:17 GMT -5
sassbox said:
koyaanisqatsi said:
There is still great value in producing organic food sustainably.
People still need to find value in how they live.
So true. I urge people to read "The Omnivore's Dilemma" for an impartial look at how these concepts are intertwined. More importantly, how small changes to lifestyle can have a profound impact.
Exciting times ahead!!! ;D
That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes, an aeroplane - Lenny Bruce is not afraid. Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn - world serves its own needs, regardless of your own needs. Feed it up a knock, speed, grunt no, strength no. Ladder structure clatter with fear of height, down height. Wire in a fire, represent the seven games in a government for hire and a combat site. Left her, wasn't coming in a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck. Team by team reporters baffled, trump, tethered crop. Look at that low plane! Fine then. Uh oh, overflow, population, common group, but it'll do. Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs, listen to your heart bleed. Tell me with the rapture and the reverent in the right - right. You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty psyched.
It's the end of the world as we know it. It's the end of the world as we know it. It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 5, 2008 11:42:57 GMT -5
Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you Is worth savin' Then you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin'.
Come writers and critics Who prophesize with your pen And keep your eyes wide The chance won't come again And don't speak too soon For the wheel's still in spin And there's no tellin' who That it's namin'. For the loser now Will be later to win For the times they are a-changin'.
Come senators, congressmen Please heed the call Don't stand in the doorway Don't block up the hall For he that gets hurt Will be he who has stalled There's a battle outside And it is ragin'. It'll soon shake your windows And rattle your walls For the times they are a-changin'.
Come mothers and fathers Throughout the land And don't criticize What you can't understand Your sons and your daughters Are beyond your command Your old road is Rapidly agin'. Please get out of the new one If you can't lend your hand For the times they are a-changin'.
The line it is drawn The curse it is cast The slow one now Will later be fast As the present now Will later be past The order is Rapidly fadin'. And the first one now Will later be last For the times they are a-changin'.
Sustainability is the only way to sustain life , by definition. I am amazed at how so many people can't understand a simple material balance. You cannot continue to take and not put back. And your waste has to go somewhere.
The real problem is we have populated the world to the point where we cannot help but change its whole dynamics.
This doesn't go over well the Mom's Club meetings!
Sorry Mom's (including my own. I have 11 brothers and sisters.) ;D
But truly the real problem is not the population but the lack of realization that the dynamics MUST change. We could limit the change or try to change it positively but we just go blindly on.
In fact, birthing a few more kids that know how to "live well." and spread the message would probably do more good than harm.
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2008 12:05:22 GMT -5 by troo - Back to Top
Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 5, 2008 12:01:40 GMT -5
sassbox said:
troo said:
Sustainability is the only way to sustain life , by definition. I am amazed at how so many people can't understand a simple material balance. You cannot continue to take and not put back. And your waste has to go somewhere.
The real problem is we have populated the world to the point where we cannot help but change its whole dynamics.
This doesn't go over well the Mom's Club meetings!
My oldest sister is married to a dude who works in AK for oil companies making insane $ .Otherwise, his idiot life has been a huge failure. He flies home to Idaho every two weeks. They are huge consumers. They now have 3 kids + he has 2 from another marriage. My sister justifies many of her choices "because of the kids". Can't afford organics cuz of the kids, don't have time to recycle cuz of the kids, yada yada. Yet I'm the silly older brother hippy paying 3 times as much for Seventh Generation Toilet Paper for her kids' future. It's a thankless way of life for me. And it won't turn around the way it's going. But it's the way I'll live 'til I die. It's just been a commitment to find a zen in every moment, throw away convention, and shine.
Too many people with the nipple in the way of their own good sense.
None of this matters, we only have until December 2012 until the poles shift and mass catastrophe ensues. Yeah I just watched the special on history channel.
Post by koyaanisqatsi on Mar 5, 2008 12:34:35 GMT -5
We'll be lucky if an environmental calamity takes us out fairly quickly. It's the social effects of everyone that's left freaking out, that really freaks me out.
No more or less than the planet showing us how insignificant we really are.
But the doomsday notion of grabbing up all we can and playing if ya can't beat 'em join 'em ain't for me. 2012 could be tomorrow and I'll still feel like it's all been worth it, even in a failing effort.
Post by MonkeyShirt on Mar 5, 2008 18:43:14 GMT -5
Ah... Maybe whats left of mankind will take notice after WWIII and sustainabilty becomes imminent to survival. But it won't happen before. And maybe people rebuild the world a better place - before they find another way to mess it up all over again.
Over the discourse of Earth's history - the survival timeline for any specie averages about 200,000 years. We humans have lived for about 200,000 years. Its time to evolve - or go extint and let the next alpha specie come to fruition.
