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Post by billybluenose on Jul 25, 2006 6:59:38 GMT -5
Anyone know what's going on with LiveBonnaroo?
Over a month after 'roo and there are still no sets available. I'd have to imagine that after August 1st, demand for those sets will be like wreaths in January. Especially when there are other ways to obtain the music.
Given that the Roo experience has begun to feel a pinch more like a money squeeze every year, I'd guess that this plays, one way or another, as some sort of marketing scheme. That is, they are well aware that many of us junkies have snatched up all we could for free. Don't forget that THEY are the ones who allow the generous trading policy. I believe that they are watching what has and hasn't been put out there torrent style as well as monitoring the respective quality of each show. All of this would suggest a careful plan to release what will ultimately sell best. And at the same time, tease up early ticket sales. Look for some sbd releases to come in conjunction with Vegoose artist announcements and ticket offerings. Look for others to trickle out by the end of the year, prior to next year's bonnaroo announcements. This AND the absence of a DvD seems to point to Live Bonnaroo as more of a marketing tool. Lot more money to be made by keeping interest peaked from year to year than by squeezing the veterans for another ten dollars at a time. Plus I'd bet there are other business aspects to be handled like artist negotiations AND which quarter your profits are dispersed into for the sake of tax liability and capital. These folks are no dummies.
That is until alot of us get raw with the whole "raked over the coals for maximum profit" ideal that is beginning to emerge. Can't really escape gentrification wherever you look these days. It's the whole kind-to-commercial-to-kind phaseology that keeps the passion in the up and comer scenes. or maybe i just can't stop thinking too much about everything !?
To test the above theory, I will go out on a limb and offer that Sasha and Dumpstaphunk will be among the first Live Bonnaroo downloads available. And maybe Oysterhead or someone to milk out the masses. or maybe Superjam, IF they are gonna headline GRAB at Vegoose.
Given that the Roo experience has begun to feel a pinch more like a money squeeze every year, I'd guess that this plays, one way or another, as some sort of marketing scheme. That is, they are well aware that many of us junkies have snatched up all we could for free. Don't forget that THEY are the ones who allow the generous trading policy. I believe that they are watching what has and hasn't been put out there torrent style as well as monitoring the respective quality of each show. All of this would suggest a careful plan to release what will ultimately sell best. And at the same time, tease up early ticket sales. Look for some sbd releases to come in conjunction with Vegoose artist announcements and ticket offerings. Look for others to trickle out by the end of the year, prior to next year's bonnaroo announcements. This AND the absence of a DvD seems to point to Live Bonnaroo as more of a marketing tool. Lot more money to be made by keeping interest peaked from year to year than by squeezing the veterans for another ten dollars at a time. Plus I'd bet there are other business aspects to be handled like artist negotiations AND which quarter your profits are dispersed into for the sake of tax liability and capital. These folks are no dummies.
That is until alot of us get raw with the whole "raked over the coals for maximum profit" ideal that is beginning to emerge. Can't really escape gentrification wherever you look these days. It's the whole kind-to-commercial-to-kind phaseology that keeps the passion in the up and comer scenes. or maybe i just can't stop thinking too much about everything !?
So they are trying to squeeze more money out of us and rake us over the coals by not selling us things? I don't get it.
Post by billybluenose on Jul 26, 2006 6:56:50 GMT -5
If it's got anything to do with Vegoose, it's probably that there is so much going on at Superfly that selling Bonnaroo performances is becoming less of a priority.
No 2005 CD. No 2005 DVD. No 2006 LiveBonnaroo shows a month after the fest.
Thank God we have Inforoo threads for all our taping needs!
Oh, they'll sell us plenty ! I's just commenting on the timing of it all. Certainly more money to be made by creating a frenzy. A ten dollar(or whatever)download is a ten dollar download. But when it is planted as a fresh seed in the doldrums of winter, it blossoms into a tickle, that gives way to a rush, that makes us say--god damned right I'm gonna get my ticket NOW.
Now KaMai-if you'd like to debate about what I perceive to be "BEGINNING TO FEEL THE PINCH" of them upping the ante, we can talk ticket prices, smaller bags of ice this year, last year's krewe of roo, etc. It's nowhere near the Woodstock of the 90's, I'll give you that. But might they have a financial motive in when they release stuff for sale
But if you want to split hairs, and try to not understand the whole of why we may not have seen any LiveBonnaroo shows yet, especially without offering your own 2 cents(except to rip on my theory), then my job here is done. I'm not jumping on any bandwagon here(read:not a disgruntled jambander), but in all honesty, I have to admit that the word is out, and a once grass rootsy organization is evolving commercially. Not making any judgements, just describing the "pinch" that is certainly existent, if not apparent.
Otherwise, maybe we oughta change the name of the board from inforoo to cheerleadaroo. The vibe is simply drifting to smaller, more hungry, venues and organizations. I for one, have been there the last five years, and watched the genesis. I'm certainly not saying "abandon bonnaroo, it is unworthy". Just puttin' out a theory as to why the release of Live SBD downloads might not have been rushed out there yet.
So they are trying to squeeze more money out of us and rake us over the coals by not selling us things? I don't get it.
^^^^^ That, my friend, is an extreme oversimplification of what I was saying, and pretty much says to me, that you are trying to miss the point. Have you not pooped yet today ?
Last Edit: Jul 26, 2006 8:53:04 GMT -5 by reehash - Back to Top
Or it could be that they're busy trying to secure rights to cover songs, the songs by artists that are different labels, and also that they just aren't focused on selling these tracks urgently because they don't make much money given the cost of production.
Yes, of course they're looking at what is already out there and factoring that into what could be released. That's why the Frames set from last year was released at all (among very few in total).
And while I would LOVE to have Sasha's set - I would be surprised if it's released... He used so many major songs in the mixes, it'll be hell to get the reproduction rights.
You don't need to ask permission to record or release a song, you only have to pay royalties. And that's not Mexico law, I leanrnt it at Berklee.
Are you kidding? Securing rights is some of the most tricky nuts in the music business. You don't simply grab some Dungeon Master's Guide chart and look up how much it costs to cover Atomic Dog, send some cash in an envelop and then you can sell your recording. If you are seeking a profit from any format of a previous recording, negotiating those royalties (which essentially IS securing rights) can take forever. And if you don't think it can happen even to a band who wrote all their songs but they were on different labels, you've never seen the umpteen different "Best Of" records that can come from such a fight. If you're incredibly lucky, the item you're trying to profit from is either public domain or a very easy royalty calculation that is worth the trouble.
This would be why Dylan's music and video is missing from his Roo appearance in the media that followed that year, because he is notorious for not allowing anyone to use his stuff. And for one of the ugliest battles look at the Verve's Bitter Sweet Symphony - they paid the royalty but after it was a massive hit the Stones dragged Richard Ashcroft through the coals and he ultimately spent every bit of profit success from that song in court fees.
Rappers and DJ's have it worse than anyone- it's very murky legal ground. * I want to add: I've read interviews where DJ Shadow and others have had to change the final masters of their albums to swap out tracks they couldn't get the rights to.
Anyway-- sorry to be long-winded, but I've worked with artists of bluegrass heritage and seen them sued for playing certain songs at small mountain venues and I know that the RIAA is more difficult than ever.
Good point RooSkew. Kinda parta what I had in mind, but TOTALLY failed to consider when betting on Sasha. Guess I was just wishfully dreaming. But that's friggin' crazy that someone sues over the live playing of bluegrass covers especially. They are often so incestuous and play so many "traditionals", it makes me wonder who are the litigants crying sour grapes. Not that I'd think they have a leg to stand on, but when you're accused and need to pay an attorney to defend you, no one really cares how much it costs you to become innocent again.
Gnome--I think you were referring to the fact that anyone can PLAY someone elses tune live without credit or royalties. Just when you go to release it for $, you gotta give up royalties.
Post by thefussydutchman on Mar 11, 2007 21:26:54 GMT -5
If anyone didn't notice they added Buddy Guy, Neville Brothers and Blackalicious's late-night to the downloads, weird it took so long for these to come out............
"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, movie gods, and rock stars. But we wont, and we're slowly learning that fact & we're very, very pissed off......."
Funktopus
Showerless Shakedown Vendor Moderator Emeritus
Live Bonnaroo would be cool if they released ALL the sets, there are shows that I want that you cant find anywhere like Cypress Hill from 06 and Earl Scruggs from 05. But most of the problem why its not a sucess is that they wait so long to release shows that people have already gotten a bootleg of it from elsewhere mainly etree. And dont get me started on the DVDs.
I want to understand why Bonnaroo doesn't make a bigger attempt to release a ton of sets right after the festival. It seems to me most of the legal and contractual work can be done before the festival so as to streamline the release process post-festival. If Phish could release every show on a tour within 48 hours why can't Bonnaroo release more sets than they have been?
I cant understand why it's not a part of the artist's contract. You play 'roo, then we will digitally sell your set. If there are issues with cover songs, no problem, keep it simple and delete them from the set. It's not like you can't get that from another source.
I want good soundboard recordings of last year's headliners...damnit!
