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Labels aren't necessarily evil if they bring us to a deeper understanding--it's just a way to communicate. Whether you label yourself a hippie, hipster, american, human being, all of this is just a method for getting across information. Don't hate on them. Don't get stuck in them either. words words words. They're useful, but don't let them use you.
That said, I think someone made the point that hippie vs. hipster is really a question of jamband vs. indie rock, as far as bonnaroo is concerned. I can't say I'm a big fan of jam bands, but I love music and will listen to anything. The bands I'm going for, besides The Police which is a lifelong dream come true, are Wilco, Spoon, and The White Stripes: someone might apply the label "hipster" to me to give a vague, general impression, and I wouldn't mind. It's a word with limited use. Still, I expect to enjoy some of the jamband sets.
This thread made me think: jambands are known for the freedom in their music. They take the song anywhere in the moment. I loved learning about widespread panic and the idea of not playing a song more than once in every three nights. The great thing about indie rock, to me--the LABEL of "indie rock"--is that it is a genre defined by it's approach to production: a business ethic, specifically to be free from corporate labels and their influence, DIY, power to the people, and that's very much a hippie ideal right in the heart of the hipster music scene.
throwing out what kind of music i listen to (which is all kinds), people who know me and people who dont know me, call me a hippie .... guess i am lol .... cr******
I am both, I am all, I am whatever label you wanna give me as far as music goes - I listen to it all - some I enjoy more then others - but music is music - it feeds the soul and without it - the world would be a very dull place.
Labels aren't necessarily evil if they bring us to a deeper understanding--it's just a way to communicate. Whether you label yourself a hippie, hipster, american, human being, all of this is just a method for getting across information. Don't hate on them. Don't get stuck in them either. words words words. They're useful, but don't let them use you.
Karma for this man, I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I think that self-labeling is a good thing. It helps you to articulate who you are. Its when you start labelling others without evidence, or they label you in that way, that we begin to have problems. The ideal of labeling people isnt all bad, it just depends on how you use it.
The whole thing about your genre or stereotype, it only applies to how one person perceives you. Not everyone who sees you or knows you can understand all of you in one moment. This is what I think of whenever I see anyone new, I never take this stuff for face value, of course, unless you're being a complete obnoxious tool. Then I got some distaste.
Some would call me a computer nerd, a shut-in, a gracious hostess, an artist, a music-lover, an art-lover, crazy madwoman bitch, gutsy-adrenaline-crazed motocrosser, artsy-fartsy, goody-two-shoes, Overweight lazyass, hardworking professional, forgiving martyr, generous friend.
Just a few I have heard or become aware of in my life. To some I'm a hippie, or at the very least an "earth-mother" type or whatever. But to most of what I'd consider true hippies, I'm sure I'd be a faker. Why? Can't put my finger on it, but it probably has more to my image. Jeans today, skirt tomorrow, heels later in the week. So I don't dress in a genre, I don't listen to music in a genre, my friends don't fit in a genre, and I have never fit in one either, and like always, I could care less what genre others would think that places me in. I know who *I* am, and explore all areas of it without reserve or concern for what it makes others think of me.
I'm all and none of them, and neither are most people. So while a genre or stereotype exists, I'm one to think that most have something else behind them as well.
There's those that *get* Bonnaroo, and there's those that don't get it. That's all the genres I'm aware of regarding this board. And I certainly know Bonnaroo isn't about stereotypes, hippies, hipsters, or whitehats.
It's about exploring music and meeting a new variety of people, and also survival of the TN elements.
Just like the music, It's all about variety. No labels needed. We're all roo'ers in the end.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
I, too, think labels are lame. But you know what I hate? There are hippies and hipsters alike (and lots of people in between) out there who supposedly shun labels, but then prejudge me based on how I present myself. I worked at the Gap, I flat-iron my hair, I sometimes wear preppy clothes and pink lipgloss. So that means I can't possibly enjoy the same music they do or appreciate a show like they can. When I was younger it drove me nuts - people would give me looks and wouldn't take me seriously at local indie shows because I wasn't being a poser and dressing like all the scenesters, I was wearing what I liked. I know the vast majority of ya'll aren't like this, but I do hear references to "white hats" and frat boys and stuff like that, and its a little annoying because just because we don't have the same clothes or hair or lifestyles doesn't mean we both can't love the same music. That's my favorite thing about music - its so unifying.
Okay, sorry, off my soap box. That wasn't meant to be an attack of any sort because all of you have been so accepting and helpful...just some observations along this topic.
Post by melikecheese on Mar 5, 2007 9:42:24 GMT -5
I call myself a hippy even thou I don't listen to typically hippy jam music, its not a look or what you listen to, its a way of thinking. I do however listen to a ton of hipster indie rock jam bands. Most of my rock n roll friends don't like jamming, i think its great. I enjoy great jamming from Dungen (check out Mon Amour from the new album, after 2:30 its 7 mins of jamming.) and the Warlocks (checkout Jam of the Witches, 15 mins of stoned out no structure rock n roll)
I would reserve the word hipster for the indie snob who is really close minded, you meet them all the time.
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Mar 5, 2007 11:36:54 GMT -5
I think it was Duke Ellington who said something to the affect that there are two kinds of music: Good music and the rest. I will be at Roo to hear good music. I guess that makes me another group that begins w/ an H: human.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
I rememer when there was only two kinds of music...there was rock n roll and there was easy listening. Oh, and I forgot about disco, but don't get me started with disco. I listen to the Stones, The Who, The Clash, Widespread Panic, Led Zepplin, all the Marleys, Allman Bros, White Stripes, Grateful Dead, etc...etc...I could go on all day. I'll listen to anything once and if I like it, twice.
I work with Matt and John. Matt is ex-military, and has an incredibly vacant head. The classic "dude!!!" type of guy. John likes metal. Both of them were talking about going to Bonnaroo this year. I was at work with John the other day, and I said "you know, Matt going to Bonnaroo almost makes me not want to go," to which he replied, "nah, that's ok, that just means I'll jump his ass in the Tool pit!"
Obviously not getting it. Now are you really worried about the indie kids?
I do no think that we should label anything, everything is what it is. If you do not like it change the channel, go listen to something else, don't download it. That is the problem we are developing as a society by placing labels on ourselves and others. Why do we feel this need to group things. Why can't we just accept everyone for how they are rather than beliefs, opinions, tastes and socio-economic status. We are who we are and who we want to be. Listen to what you like, watch what you want, do what you want to do, but you have to let others do the same. Before you define others, define yourself.
Don't follow the crowd, be unique like everyone else...........
"Chicago is known as the Windy City, and Montana is called the Big Sky State, so I think that we should somehow combine the two to create the ultimate kite-flying experience. "-Mitch Hedberg
Post by heavymetaldrummer on Mar 5, 2007 13:34:50 GMT -5
It looks like the title of this thread should be: Pro-label vs. Anti-label.
Me, a closed-minded, narc, indie rock hipster, I get my insight from ironic t-shirts, so I will say that stereotypes save time. (With due credit to The Onion.)
We treat mishaps like sinking ships and I know that I don't want to be out to drift Well I can see it in your eyes like I taste your lips and They both tell me that we're better than this
Post by AintNoFreedom on Mar 5, 2007 14:18:49 GMT -5
oopsikillednana said:
You don't need to worry about the hipsters.
I work with Matt and John. Matt is ex-military, and has an incredibly vacant head. The classic "dude!!!" type of guy. John likes metal. Both of them were talking about going to Bonnaroo this year. I was at work with John the other day, and I said "you know, Matt going to Bonnaroo almost makes me not want to go," to which he replied, "nah, that's ok, that just means I'll jump his ass in the Tool pit!"
Obviously not getting it. Now are you really worried about the indie kids?
Call me closed minded, but the thought of "dude-guys" and kids with popped collars at Bonnaroo has me irked a bit. I don't like to prejudge people, but I go college and only party when I go home because everywhere I go there's always some kind of meathead like that with some sort of ego trip looking for a fight. Last time I went out I had three guys ready to jump me because I was talking to my friend about how I don't like the band Journey.
You're right, I don't worry about the so called hipsters or whatever... Different "scenes" coming together should be celebrated (some of my closest friends listen to hardcore), but I AM worried about overly aggressive frat boys who get a chip on their shoulder once they have a few drinks in them.
I live in Austin, which is a mecca for neo-hippies or bearded hipsters. I don't mind the labels. They're shorthand and kind of useful if you don't take them seriously. It's sort of like when you're trying to describe a band you've just started listening to to someone. You say they sound kind of like Zep or the Beatles, but then a few months later, you're opinion completely changes. Same thing with people. If you're trying to describe a scene, you use labels. If you meet someone and describe them later, you're going to use labels. If you get to know that person, the labels begin to fall away and the descriptions get more personalized.
As for me, I'm a slacker.
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2007 14:28:54 GMT -5 by dogstarman - Back to Top
Post by roolacksreality on Mar 5, 2007 14:35:50 GMT -5
skittish said:
I personally dislike the stereotype both groups present but I listen to mostly indie rock so hipsters are more tolerable to me. With the seemingly perfect split between jam bands and indie rock bands, the crowd will mostly be categorized into one of these two groups.
I went through my whole jam band phase. Then I realized, "This really isn't enjoyable. Stoned out hippies soloing for 20 minutes at a time in a song that has absolutely no structure and awful lyrics.. this is no good".
I definately listen to a little bit of both. But don't dis jam bands, pal. I used to be into that scene, now I'm not too interested. Regardless of that you shouldn't stereotype an entire music genre based on your own opinion. Its VERY easy for me to say something that could offend fans of the genre by saying something like, "All that music is for emotional people on pills", but I don't. That statement doesn't reflect my opinion, but you get what I'm trying to say. I don't know whether or not you meant for it to be understood like this, however myself and some others on inforoo take it seriously. If you want to ask a question like that fine, but leave the stereotype out of it.
I do no think that we should label anything, everything is what it is. If you do not like it change the channel, go listen to something else, don't download it. That is the problem we are developing as a society by placing labels on ourselves and others. Why do we feel this need to group things. Why can't we just accept everyone for how they are rather than beliefs, opinions, tastes and socio-economic status. We are who we are and who we want to be. Listen to what you like, watch what you want, do what you want to do, but you have to let others do the same. Before you define others, define yourself.
Don't follow the crowd, be unique like everyone else...........
To point out the obvious, people like labels. They like to be able to define themselves in simple terms for the most part. It's why some people choose occupations with strong stereotypes associated with them AND THEN they take on those very stereotypes. They like to feel accepted by the label they're trying to fit.
Now I understand labels can be used to divide between 'them and us', but they're just a necessary part of life. I like to write. I aspire to be a writer. Without labels, there would be no point of reference in my writing because every character fits a 'type' initially and then proceeds to expand upon the nuances of the kind of person they are.
A label can be negative, but it can also be an ideal some people attain to. And of course, nobody is ever exactly like the label they or others associate themselves with, but that doesn't discourage the labels being applied.
Labels and stereotypes are a part of life. They're completely necessary and unnecessary depending on the situation. They're also a great deal of fun to play with if you know how to skew them to mess with other people's perception of you. Just ask David Bowie.
Last Edit: Mar 5, 2007 15:39:29 GMT -5 by dogstarman - Back to Top