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Surely we've all heard this by now, but the story in a nutshell just in case: Nadya Suleman, single mother of six living on disability in California, went back to her fertility doctor and recently had octuplets.
Post by bamadancer on Feb 15, 2009 14:06:41 GMT -5
Well, imo its her decision to reproduce how she wants, but also at the same time if you can't support your children, you shouldn't be having 14 of them.
I think a lot of the responsibility falls on the doctor...he should NOT have implanted 6 embryos IMO, it's against recommendations. BUT, at the same time fertility treatments are not regulated by the government (like they are in other countries)...and there's a lot of push from people who spend thousands of dollars on in vitro procedures to implant as many embryos as possible.
I think it's a really sticky situation and that there are a LOT of issues people aren't considering...
Here's an issue: How can she disabled enough to be receiving payments, yet healthy enough to carry octuplets?
A lot of disabled women can and do safely have babies. Even eight! Although why in God's name they would want to is beyond me. It is not my place to judge their suitability to bring a child into this world. Good thing, because it it were my place, there would be a lot less children running around.
I sold infertility meds to women at my pharmacy several years ago. It broke my heart to see them keep coming back and paying so much money for something they wanted so badly. And a few of them did NOT need to be a Mom in my opinion. But I am not God.
Would I have sold her the fertility meds? Good question. I get less information than a Doctor. I would not have known that she was planning on keeping all 8. Most of my patients elected to have the extras frozen or donated to others that could not have children. Do you guys know they grade them like regular chicken eggs? A,B,C,D. Poor D egg. And with her using all 8, SOME of them are B,C, maybe even D. Think about that for awhile!
She said in one of those interviews, when asked to respond to criticism that one person couldn't handle parenting that many children alone, that she shouldn't be expected to do it alone because she isn't superhuman. But if you play the "I'm only human" card while you're trying to play God, you lose credibility with me.
Semi-related subject: those lips looked suspicious to me before I heard word one of the Angelina wanna-be angle.
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She has no job, lives at home with her mom, who thought this was a good idea? The doctor that wanted to make some money? Its sad because in the end the kids are gonna suffer. Not saying that 14 kids cant be raised correctly I mean shit theres that show on TLC 17 kids and counting. But they work and have a big enough house to accomodate the 17 kids. I saw on the news that all 8 cribs are in one room and its just mounds of clothes everywhere.
Post by bamadancer on Feb 15, 2009 21:54:25 GMT -5
Well, she is unemployed because she's pursuing a masters' degree in counseling...so it's not like she's purposefully unemployed. She does intend to get a job and support her family.
Here's an issue: How can she disabled enough to be receiving payments, yet healthy enough to carry octuplets?
is she actually on disability??? I thought she was receiving checks for 3 of the kids
I think she is living of a disability payment that had something to do with her job and yes one of the news media broke that she is collecting disability for 3 children. Yes this is another poor choice by a person who is the media is eating it up. When they are done with her she still has 14 children to take care of.
Not saying that 14 kids cant be raised correctly I mean poop theres that show on TLC 17 kids and counting. But they work and have a big enough house to accomodate the 17 kids.
I've seen that show once... they were loading up the bus to take the kids to a family reunion, but not without stopping at the Creationism Museum first. I don't know if that's exactly my definition of raising them "correctly"
Not saying that 14 kids cant be raised correctly I mean poop theres that show on TLC 17 kids and counting. But they work and have a big enough house to accomodate the 17 kids.
I've seen that show once... they were loading up the bus to take the kids to a family reunion, but not without stopping at the Creationism Museum first. I don't know if that's exactly my definition of raising them "correctly"
well its all subjective depending how you define correctly/effectively/satisfactory
She herself is receiving disability payments too, though. Says she injured her back working at a psychiatric center when some patients got unruly.
One of the first six she had is autistic, so I know she's getting payments for at least one child.
Hmmm - I remember that she WAS getting disability from work - but I think I saw that she was not getting that any longer - it ran out (I may be wrong though)
As for her working on her master's in counseling to support her family - wow - in this economy - I hope she makes really GREAT grades and has a job lined up already
I just check and counselor's do not make all that much money - it is less then Boz and I make and we struggle with just three kids
Well, she is unemployed because she's pursuing a masters' degree in counseling...so it's not like she's purposefully unemployed. She does intend to get a job and support her family.
Getting a masters is no excuse to not to have a job while your in school...I work full time, am getting my masters full time and raising a child. And yes it sucks. So if this was her plan why on earth would she bring 8 more kids into this situation Im just saying from the POV of a mother I would never put my other children in a situation that would compromise their well being.
Isn't that kind of in vitro procedure an elective procedure anyway? I thought the reason patients want extra embryos implanted was because they, and not the insurance companies, pay for it.
If she's already got six kids, wouldn't that extra money have been better spent on them instead of even a 7th kid?
I am a counselor at a non for profit agency. There is noway you can make a living to support 14 kids on a counselors salary. However, I am not sure what you could do to support 14 children. Well Angeli Joli and Brad Pitt could..
Don't get me started....really...you just don't want me to go there....
Having MANY MANY friends who have gone through fertility treatments...both successfully and no....and friends who have lost babies in ALL stages of pregnancies from 4 weeks to 7 months...and myself having a scare at 27 weeks with a possible misscarriage with my own....this is NOT a subject I can take lightly in ANY form....I have NO sympathy....no understanding of how or why anyone would go through this under the apparent circumstances...or why any REPUTABLE doctor would allow this to happen....it is inconceivable to me how this was allowed to happen and why these children will be brought up under these circumstances when they could have been brought into the world in such a different way. I can only hope that they will not be made to suffer for the bad judgement the adults that hold their fate......
She used her lump sum $150,000 disability check to pay for the infertility treatments. Believe me, this would not go far. The meds alone are over $2,000 each time. None of this is covered by most insurances.
Her response: “Of course, if I have more kids I may have to ask for $2 million,” she said. “Seriously, though, my mum didn’t bring me up like that. Besides, what will my 14 kids think when they grow up?”
By the way: Nadya & 14 live with Nadya's mother... whose home is currently being foreclosed on.
If you ask me, these kids will already have enough evidence to know Mommy's got a screw loose. I don't think being an erotic thespian is going to tip the scales...
Post by billclinton on Feb 28, 2009 14:47:07 GMT -5
I personally think it was completely irresponsible and selfish of her to do that. It's not just her life she's makng tougher, its the 14 kids and her mother's too.
From the get she wanted to have a show like Jon and Kate plus 8 - she suggested this to TLC.She never thought people would judge her so harshly.She just didn't think period.
Poor D egg. And with her using all 8, SOME of them are B,C, maybe even D. Think about that for awhile!
What makes an egg A or D?And will a D egg create a person will "issues"?
Instead of dirt and poison, we have rather chosen to fill our hives with honey and wax; thus furnishing mankind with the two noblest of things, which are sweetness and light.
From the get she wanted to have a show like Jon and Kate plus 8 - she suggested this to TLC.She never thought people would judge her so harshly.She just didn't think period.
Poor D egg. And with her using all 8, SOME of them are B,C, maybe even D. Think about that for awhile!
What makes an egg A or D?And will a D egg create a person will "issues"?
Instead of dirt and poison, we have rather chosen to fill our hives with honey and wax; thus furnishing mankind with the two noblest of things, which are sweetness and light.
Well, imo its her decision to reproduce how she wants, but also at the same time if you can't support your children, you shouldn't be having 14 of them.
I think a lot of the responsibility falls on the doctor...he should NOT have implanted 6 embryos IMO, it's against recommendations. BUT, at the same time fertility treatments are not regulated by the government (like they are in other countries)...and there's a lot of push from people who spend thousands of dollars on in vitro procedures to implant as many embryos as possible.
I think it's a really sticky situation and that there are a LOT of issues people aren't considering...
she says she's going to have a job, but come on. There is no way a job in counseling will ever pay for 14 kids. Ever. That's hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, maybe even upwards to a million, just too feed, clothe, provide medical care, and house 14 kids. With no other income but her's.
now take into the consideration that at least some of these children will eventually be going into college. All at the same freakin' time. I highly doubt a masters in counseling pays well enough to send 14 children to college.
the woman is irresponsible. plain and simple. you cannot argue that.
Surely she has some social-agency overseers of her own. She receives assistance for some of those kids. I highly doubt that money comes with no strings attached.
That's another thing that makes this so wrong: Should the state really let someone become a social worker who requires one herself?
Okay...I have a few statements to make (I just can't hold back).
Okay, I don't care if she's getting her Master's in BioPhysics or if she's finishing up her residency to become a doctor, a person who makes even $300,000/yr CANNOT support 14 children, especially in CA! Hell, a person making a million/yr would have trouble supporting 14 kids! And while I agree people should be able to do what they want, not when the government is paying for it! When you're living off the government, it should be able to tell you what to do, including when to reproduce. And personally, I don't care if you have Bill Gates' money, there is a little something called population control. Overpopulating is a huge contributor to to a lot of social and environmental problems. Nobody should have 14 fuckin' kids. Sorry. She used her $150,000 disability check to pay for the infertility treatments? I was not aware of that! That just proves how incredibly fucked up and narcissistic this loony tune is! So instead of feeding and caring for her 6 already children, she went and paid to have 8 more? Hmm...that is so rational. This women is beyond lunacy. And she has TOTALLY had plastic surgery. Those lips!!!! And she kind of does look like Angelina. VERY fucked up if she had that done to look like her. I heard on CNN yesterday that some organization (Angels with Wings or something) offered to take care of all 14 of her children 24/7 for at least a year, including education-everything, and she REFUSED IT!!!! WTF?????? I feed terrible for these children. And Kdogg, I agree with everything you said 100%, including the science issue. I don't think keeping your children from knowledge (Science here) is raising them "correctly." Taking them to that creationism museum was a form of brainwashing. It's just kind of sad. And that bitch needs to quit reproducing too! These peeps is crazy!
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