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Post by autumnsredtears on Jun 21, 2009 9:21:08 GMT -5
What are we arguing about? Someone lost their life and someone had to stumble across that cold body and you ll want to talk about what drugs are bad and the ghetto. He'll never see the sun set again whether it was the heat or the drugs, does it really matter anymore?
What are we arguing about? Someone lost their life and someone had to stumble across that cold body and you ll want to talk about what NO NO WORD!!! are bad and the ghetto. He'll never see the sun set again whether it was the heat or the NO NO WORD!!! does it really matter anymore?
We can talk about whatever we want to on a message board. And technically we are all discussing this topic. The reason we were talking about "what druqs are bad" stemmed from this news story that involved druqs and someone losing a life. I don't see why this is so crazy?
Someone died. It sucks. It could have been avoided. Hopefully it will open some people's eyes..........BUT......why do we have to stop having discussions about these topics? I don't understand.
It matters, some things in this life are avoidable and some aren't. People who start taking H on the Monday afternoon when Bonnaroo is over are not likely to be around a lot longer anyway. Not that I dont have sympathy for him and his family, but if this story is true the only thing that makes it unusual or notable is that he popped his last balloon at Bonnaroo.
It's not racist to say keep it in the ghetto. The ghetto is not a race. There was nothing about anyones races being thrown into that comment. Blacks, Whites, Asians......all varieties of races live in the ghetto. Even if I don't agree with the guys statement.....to say it's racist is just silly.
thanks Itrain. and ugroove, what do you think a ghetto is? did you automatically assume the ghetto is full of a certain race? that nothing but blacks or latinos or italians or (god forbid!) caucasians are the only ones that live there? a ghetto is where a bunch of people are stuck due to bad situations, poor housing, and sometimes downright bad luck. They get stuck in this environment (i'm not even going to explain, everyone knows what goes on in these places) which leads to illigitimate methods of making money. How much robbing, killing, and dealing do you think goes on in these ghettos? and to think that its nothing but corn and flowers and pretty stars and a bunch of other happy things? No, read some statistics buddy. how much ice and H and crack cocaine do you think flow through these places every single day? THATS why I said thats one of the places H belongs.
I was just saying to bring something like that to an event where all types of people are welcome (families, teenagers, jesus freaks, straight-edge people, whatever) is ridiculous. THAT is the hideous underbelly of bonnaroo, not people sharing corn and beers. Hell, if you have a child with you and he or she sees someone smoking, they probably wouldnt even say a word. but show them someone with their arms tied up with jump rope and needles sticking out of their arms looking all strung out, that child might wonder what the quack is goin on.
edit: mods sorry if this is too much druq talk but the whole thread has been about it
It's not racist to say keep it in the ghetto. The ghetto is not a race. There was nothing about anyones races being thrown into that comment. Blacks, Whites, Asians......all varieties of races live in the ghetto. Even if I don't agree with the guys statement.....to say it's racist is just silly.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
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Back to the original subject... When volunteering, does one have to leave some kind of collateral or other assurance that one will perform their duties? Bonnaroo fulfills its end of the deal on the front end with admission for volunteers... I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they have something in place to prevent free riders on the back end of the deal, too. Might that have something to do with the lack of ID on this man? I also suspect they might ask for vehicle information, so they know who should or shouldn't be there after 3pm Monday. I'm sure someone out there has more knowledge of the volunteer situation than I.
It's not racist to say keep it in the ghetto. The ghetto is not a race. There was nothing about anyones races being thrown into that comment. Blacks, Whites, Asians......all varieties of races live in the ghetto. Even if I don't agree with the guys statement.....to say it's racist is just silly.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
Yes historically a "ghetto" has had to do with different races. But nowadays, if you hear someone talk about a "ghetto" area or describing something as "ghetto" it's not exactly referring to a race or minorities. At least in my experience that is.
Again.....I don't think his statement was racist in anyway. Are saying they should stay in crack alleys also racist? He was just trying to say that people bringing it to Roo pissed him off.
just for comparison's sake.....this is what I thought of when I read his comment about "ghetto"
definition copied from urbandictionary.com:
"an impoverished, neglected, or otherwise disadvantaged residential area of a city, usually troubled by a disproportionately large amount of crime "
It's not racist to say keep it in the ghetto. The ghetto is not a race. There was nothing about anyones races being thrown into that comment. Blacks, Whites, Asians......all varieties of races live in the ghetto. Even if I don't agree with the guys statement.....to say it's racist is just silly.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
This definition is very accurate if you happen to be a jew living in 14th century venice, or 1950's Prague. Now it simply means the poor rundown part of town where you can get drugs.
It's not racist to say keep it in the ghetto. The ghetto is not a race. There was nothing about anyones races being thrown into that comment. Blacks, Whites, Asians......all varieties of races live in the ghetto. Even if I don't agree with the guys statement.....to say it's racist is just silly.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
-----
Back to the original subject... When volunteering, does one have to leave some kind of collateral or other assurance that one will perform their duties? Bonnaroo fulfills its end of the deal on the front end with admission for volunteers... I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they have something in place to prevent free riders on the back end of the deal, too. Might that have something to do with the lack of ID on this man? I also suspect they might ask for vehicle information, so they know who should or shouldn't be there after 3pm Monday. I'm sure someone out there has more knowledge of the volunteer situation than I.
The only kind of collateral Bonnaroo gets (and this may be different for Clean Vibes) is a $250 deposit up front. If you don't work your shifts, you just lose the deposit and become a paying patron (except for the staff wristband/free showers). Other than that, I don't think there's anything. IIRC they didn't ask for my vehicle information either.
drugs are not bad within themselves. They aren't good within themselves either. If you decide to put something into your body, do so with proper education and with the correct moderation.
Education and moderation are two words that could save tons of lives.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
This definition is very accurate if you happen to be a jew living in 14th century venice, or 1950's Prague. Now it simply means the poor rundown part of town where you can get NO NO WORD!!!.
My BS meter just went off the charts. I'll spare y'all the off-topic rant and simply throw out this for consideration: A ghetto is described as a "portion of a city in which members of a minority group live; especially because of social, legal, or economic pressure."
This definition is very accurate if you happen to be a jew living in 14th century venice, or 1950's Prague. Now it simply means the poor rundown part of town where you can get NO NO WORD!!!.
I don't think that's necessarily the case. My people have nicer apartments in better neighborhoods than I do.
The point is that the word usage has moved on to being a colloquialism, that means a certain part of town in that has a lower economic status, and a higher crime rate. Not anything racially charged.
Post by ParanoidAntelope on Jun 21, 2009 13:56:32 GMT -5
while i agree that saying keep it in the ghetto is not inherently racist, i think you also have to realize the context within your remarks are made. I am assuming clam wasn't trying to make an incendiary statement (it wasn't)...but you have to remember that when you say ghetto, and you mean poor, you also mean a group that is disproportionately made up of minorities. Yes white people are still poor...in fact they are the largest group of poor people in our country...however, if you are black or latino, you are still more likely to live in poverty.
I guess my only question would be...when you say ghettos and crack alleys, what kind of picture does that evoke in your mind? What kind of people populate that place? I live pretty close to Chicago, which informs my mental image of a ghetto, but i still must say im somewhat ashamed that what comes to mind is a bunch of black people on the streets and in the corner. It's what you mostly see up here (in bad areas)...but for a reason i cant quite name, it doesn't exactly make me feel good that this is my knee jerk reaction (even if it is often true)
However, I do think it's a bit hypocritical to say Bonnaroo is a fest that "welcomes all kinds of people"...and then to exclude a certain group of people. Im not arguing in defense of H users here, but it becomes a sort of slippery slope...because different people have different judgments on what acceptable behavior is. I personally am of the opinion (and i believe many here are also) that i think is generally the spirit of Bonnaroo--live and let live. Basically, if you having a good time does not impinge on my good time, i really don't care what you're doing. I understand that H/meth users tend to screw up other peoples good times--i would never ever put either one in my body as i find them both to be especially insidious
AND YET, i personally am in favor of legalization/taxation of everything, because i believe it should be a personal choice. and i think if you cant handle yourself in public, no matter what you are taking, then you should be ejected/arrested/whatever.
I love bonnaroo, i first went in '06, and i have been every year since. I love it for its people as much as its music, for how different a place it is than the normal reality of day to day up here. I especially like that we (generally) police ourselves, help each other out, and just get along. I hope thats how it stays--people policing themselves! Again, not in support of H users here- i think its extremely sad that anybody dies at bonnaroo, and i also think it puts a stain on the fest to a degree. I just think that we shouldn't automatically condemn any action, unless it brings some sort of measurable damage with it. In this case you can. One life gone. Not always that easy though.
Sorry for the long rant, iv'e been reading this thread for a bit now, but i wanted to get my thoughts together in a (somewhat) coherent fashion before i posted.
“Why is marijuana against the law? It grows naturally upon our planet. Doesn't the idea of making nature against the law seem to you a bit . . . unnatural?” -Bill Hicks
Is the racial makeup of that "certain part of town" the same or different than the town as a whole?
And based on your answer, is it still proper to call my definition a "colloquialism?"
I don't think it's entirely irrelevant.
It just depends on the town, but nothing is like say the 1940 Detroit Ghettos, or the ones in Kansas City that were racially enforced by law. Now it is just that part of town.
Post by groovy_uv802 on Jun 21, 2009 16:20:23 GMT -5
wow, first i just want to say i like the amount of dialogue that is taking place. Yes i know that calm was just saying that s/he just doesnt want that kinda stuff at bonnaroo, but the language we use shapes our towns, cities, knowledge and bonnaroo understanding. My initial post was to spark conversation on this development of modern american english. Thank you who ever posted the definition, i was about to do that. While it may not be the most racist thing ever said it was a comment that struck me shaping society where people still use H and are allowed to get f***ed up and OD. Irresponsible drug use should not be tolerated anywhere. Ghetto as defined is a place shaped by minorities, saying all the bad things in society should exist there perpetuates a stereotype and enables its continuance and existence.
Sorry for a slightly space post, i have just been really happy to see this dialogue take place. Change can begin with the way we in which we use language to shape our understanding. Thanks everyone.
also i havent said this, but I wanna give an RIP to our lost 'Rooer. Its always sad to hear news like this.
I'm just pissed I had to sell my meth lab to get to bonnaroo. therefore, i couldnt get high and bonnaroo was 100x worse than i ever thought it could have been. sorry i took it out on the ghettos and crack alleys.
Someone let me know if we get back to discussing any useful information about what happened to this guy. It's such a bummer that this happened, even if it was self-inflicted. I really don't care to discuss what illegals some folks think are "good" and others think are "bad" -- I just think it's too bad that this dude's not around anymore. He's got friends and family grieving their loss and we're bickering. Big picture, people.
Yeah, this thread is WAY off-topic. The whole "ghetto" issue should have its own thread elsewhere.
And how was your post "on-topic"? You're doing the same thing that you pointed out.
And I do think this thread is still relatively on topic. I agree, the "ghetto" stuff was just argument and could be discussed elsewhere....but the other stuff before it relates back to the original story so I don't see a problem.
To me it is kind of strange I guess, I have compassion for this guy as a human being, and no one should have to shuffle loose this mortal coil so young or quickly. However people make choices, and at the end of the day I am not responsible for what they choose. Anybody who was still doing that in the hot sun, after Bonnaroo was over, and then decided to go lay down in their tent. Well they have made some choices along their life's path that led them there, so I guess what I am saying is that I have a lot of compassion for him, his friends and family. I am not sure I have a lot of sympathy for him though, he chose to do what he did, and he paid the ultimate price for it.
To me it is kind of strange I guess, I have compassion for this guy as a human being, and no one should have to shuffle loose this mortal coil so young or quickly. However people make choices, and at the end of the day I am not responsible for what they choose. Anybody who was still doing that in the hot sun, after Bonnaroo was over, and then decided to go lay down in their tent. Well they have made some choices along their life's path that led them there, so I guess what I am saying is that I have a lot of compassion for him, his friends and family. I am not sure I have a lot of sympathy for him though, he chose to do what he did, and he paid the ultimate price for it.
good, thoughtful post jess. I feel 100% the same way. Hopefully it opened some people's eyes and will help them.......and hopefully we can avoid this type of problem in the future.
Yeah, this thread is WAY off-topic. The whole "ghetto" issue should have its own thread elsewhere.
And how was your post "on-topic"? You're doing the same thing that you pointed out.
And I do think this thread is still relatively on topic. I agree, the "ghetto" stuff was just argument and could be discussed elsewhere....but the other stuff before it relates back to the original story so I don't see a problem.
You are just looking for an argument at this point. Go jack-off to the sound of your own fingers typing somewhere else. A guy any of us could have known died at our festival. Arguing about word definitions and semantics in a thread dedicated to him is disrespectful. If any sort of dialogue should come from this it should be about druqs themselves and what we can do as Rooers to create a better environment where this doesn't happen again. People have said that they knew of people selling the stuff out of their car. If we have such low tolerance for that substance why do we neglect to tell the authorities if we know for a fact that something so deadly is being passed out to our friends? This is the dialogue that should be resulting from an alleged drug-related death, not the anthropology of the "ghetto".
^For the record I go to multiple music festivals a year, and just got off back from a pretty epic Phish run. I know and am friends with people that are a big part of the scene, and I have seen some stuff that makes me uncomfortable over the years. Never though have I known, or known anyone who associates with people who use H. So I doubt it could be someone anyone on here could have known.
It's possible that someone who rarely posts on here may have known him, but almost definitely not a regular poster. If they did, we would have already heard about it, but I sort of meant that this guy could have been a camp neighbor or been that guy you danced with at one of the shows, not necessarily a friend, but I do consider everyone at Bonnaroo my friend until they screw me over otherwise. It can't really be said that no one here would know this person just because he used. I don't partake in any sort of substance other than alcohol and I've known people who have used. One of them is clean, two I've lost track of, and one is in a coma. It sort of shocks me to know that this stuff is at Bonnaroo. I'm sure it's always been there, but this definitely puts a spotlight on it.
And how was your post "on-topic"? You're doing the same thing that you pointed out.
And I do think this thread is still relatively on topic. I agree, the "ghetto" stuff was just argument and could be discussed elsewhere....but the other stuff before it relates back to the original story so I don't see a problem.
You are just looking for an argument at this point. Go jack-off to the sound of your own fingers typing somewhere else. A guy any of us could have known died at our festival. Arguing about word definitions and semantics in a thread dedicated to him is disrespectful. If any sort of dialogue should come from this it should be about druqs themselves and what we can do as Rooers to create a better environment where this doesn't happen again. People have said that they knew of people selling the stuff out of their car. If we have such low tolerance for that substance why do we neglect to tell the authorities if we know for a fact that something so deadly is being passed out to our friends? This is the dialogue that should be resulting from an alleged drug-related death, not the anthropology of the "ghetto".
I'm not looking for an argument......I know it may seem that way. I just don't see how it helps to point out that something is off-topic......in an off-topic post? Doesn't that pretty much just contribute to the problem you pointed out? lol.
All of this started because I saw a comment that said "druqs aren't bad if you can control them" and I stated my disagreement.......using this story as an example. Apparently people thought I was attacking someone because I disagreed with them and they had to clarify what they consider "druqs".
The "ghetto" stuff was someone taking another persons post out of context and misinterpreting their original point.
I'm sorry if this has gotten "off-topic" and many times myself and others said that we hope we can learn from this and we feel bad for what has happened.
and if i were to jack-off......it wouldn't be to myself typing. that'd be much too hard to do
It sort of shocks me to know that this stuff is at Bonnaroo. I'm sure it's always been there, but this definitely puts a spotlight on it.
Very true. It shocks me too. When I went for the first time in 05 I was pretty naive to the whole festival scene and was amazed at all the different party favors around. At no point did it even cross my mind that this would be present. I guess I just never thought about it. It makes you wonder about some of the crazy stuff that goes on that we never know about.
It's possible that someone who rarely posts on here may have known him, but almost definitely not a regular poster. If they did, we would have already heard about it, but I sort of meant that this guy could have been a camp neighbor or been that guy you danced with at one of the shows, not necessarily a friend, but I do consider everyone at Bonnaroo my friend until they screw me over otherwise. It can't really be said that no one here would know this person just because he used. I don't partake in any sort of substance other than alcohol and I've known people who have used. One of them is clean, two I've lost track of, and one is in a coma. It sort of shocks me to know that this stuff is at Bonnaroo. I'm sure it's always been there, but this definitely puts a spotlight on it.
I guess I was not clear, what I meant is once someone is using such a self destructive substance, I no longer will associate with them or count them as a friend. If they come by I will lock my crap up, and send the kids to bed. If they need help however to get better I will provide whatever I can. At a festival though, I would honestly have gone and turned neighbors who were slinging that crap in to security. I have just seen way too many times what those exceptionally addictive substances will do to a person. It is back to the compassion vs sympathy thing. I can feel bad that they have gotten to where they are in life, but I don't feel sorry for them that they managed to get themselves there.