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Post by nitetimeritetime on Jun 22, 2009 15:31:30 GMT -5
That is correct. The "opposing" protestors were angry because they/others had been unfairly and/or illegally disenfranchised. Nobody had to pay them, they just had to organize them, because people were angry about their votes being thrown away.
The Republican protestors had to be paid (most were Repub staffers who were flown in) because they were protesting the recount. Even people who disagreed with counting votes a second time weren't so angry about it that they would take to the streets about it. So the Reps faked their protests.
EDIT: but, yeah, this doesn't have anything to do with the topic of the thread, so back to Iran...
If you use Twitter, set your "location" to Tehran / time zone to GMT +3.30. Iranian security forces are hunting for bloggers using location/timezone searches. The more people at this location, the bigger the logjam for forces trying to shut down Iranians' access to the internet. Cut & paste & pass it on
I guess though I don't think it is very significant yet. They are challenging the politicians not the cleric system as of now. That could change though, also could we at least change the name of the thread so people do not think this about cloud seeding or something.
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
A Thieve's Parade 2/24 Conspirator 2/26 Kevin Smith 3/11 Keller 3/17 Papadosio 3/18 JJ Grey 3/25 Bela Fleck/Edgar Meyer 3/26 Toubab Krewe 3/27 O'Death 4/11 Budos Band 4/22 EOTO 4/28 Summer Camp 5/6-29 All Good
Post by ClarkGriswold on Jun 23, 2009 21:16:26 GMT -5
The intent of my initial post wasn’t to solicit academic reviews, intellectual discussion, opposition or compliance nor misinformed gut reaction, moreover it was an attempt to penetrate a real awareness of the reality I found missing in this community.
Please forgive if I’m in error and my ignorance shows.
My spelling stinks, My eloquence is less So I find myself in need to defer
Bob Dylan - Masters of War
The images in this video are all old news, With all hopes we Americans through our last election have moved past this. But the Iranian movement still has a way to go. I doubt individually there’s much anyone can do in America except perhaps keep electing the right Presidents. Maybe someday the Iranians will have that right.
Honestly as much as I wish to have a dog in this fight. There's no logical way we can without screwing things up for the Iranians. Of course there is always the back chanel stuff we're never aware of... ??
Well one thing I think you are forgetting is that the opposition loves us about the same as the people in power. Yesterday listening to NPR I heard someone put it very well. The opposition party represents the original hard liners who overthrew the Shah, and started the Islamic revolution. The party currently in power is more representative of those who fought in the Iran/Iraq war.
Neither side particularly likes us, and both sides favor proliferation so I am just not sure what a lot of people think is going to happen if the opposition candidate does win. Like I said I am glad they are out there defending their right to a fair and free election, but I do not think it will affect thing son the ground in Iran much. They call them revolutions because they keep on rolling around in a circle, and Iran is going to have a hard time of it, until they truly try to become a free society.
I've stayed out of this but would like to offer my opinion:
Let them figure it out on their own. This is not something we need to be involved in at this point. Iran has had revolutions since the beginning of time. I was living there when the last major revolution started and the Shah lost power. Not a fun thing to live through.
At this point, IMHO (heaven forbid I don't say this is just my opinion - I have no facts to base this on) most Iranians (actually still living there) hate Americans. The ones that don't hate Americans try desperately to get out and live in the United States but I feel these are a minority of the population.
Should we montor the situation? Sure - it could bite us on the ass if the begin nuclear testing and crap. But other then that - there is nothing else we should do except leave it alone andl et Iran as a country handle their own politics.
this isn't a partisan issue. we have no authority over iran and the elections they hold.
what right do we have to step in to their internal affairs?
i think jess said something about it not being bad enough for us to step in - no - it's irrelevant how bad it gets - it is not our country / problem / fight.
I currently have an employee in Iran. She went home a month ago to visit her Grandmother. Talk about bad timing. She is due to return this Thursday. I am praying that she makes it home safe. THAT is my concern about this country right now.
I currently have an employee in Iran. She went home a month ago to visit her Grandmother. Talk about bad timing. She is due to return this Thursday. I am praying that she makes it home safe. THAT is my concern about this country right now.
and that is a legitimate concern - hope she makes it home safely
I wish there was a way to get the straight shit on this stuff. I've heard that the side fighting for a recount still believes in nuclear proliferation, were the ones who started the revolution in '79, etc., so who do we really want coming out on top?
^ That's all true. Moussavi does seem a little bit more reasonable, less antagonistic toward America and the West, more likely to restrain the "morality police", but still fully committed to the Islamic Revolution and its principles. We want to see elections carried out properly and we don't want to see protesters beaten or shot, but in the end, the victor in this election doesn't matter too much. The Ayatollahs run the country anyway.
I was living there when the last major revolution started and the Shah lost power. Not a fun thing to live through.
At this point, IMHO (heaven forbid I don't say this is just my opinion - I have no facts to base this on) most Iranians (actually still living there) hate Americans. The ones that don't hate Americans try desperately to get out and live in the United States but I feel these are a minority of the population.
Meg, exactly which years were you living in Iran?
Keep in mind that a majority of Iran's population is below the age of 30 - more than 2/3, according to a quick Wiki reference. If you were there during the 1979 revolution, I think it's safe to say that the sentiment you saw might not accurately reflect the attitudes of the current Iranian populace.
The way I see it, there's a whole generation coming up that does not want things as they are.
Post by Steel_City_X on Jun 26, 2009 8:41:08 GMT -5
Obviously, jumping into the middle of a country's internal problems are never a good thing.
I hope that we keep our noses and soldiers out of Iran. We have jumped into too many situation where we are supposed to "settle" and internal issue.
I have not watched this enough to understand the religious situation, but IF this involves religion, we need to stay away. There are good reasons to separate "the church and state," personal salvation and beliefs do not always support "for the good and order of the people".
I get soo confused when we swing back and forth between friend and foe. Sort of like teenage boyfriend and girlfriends, breaking up, then getting together, then breaking up, then in love, then torn apart.
Now, just because Iran is right between Iraq and Afghanistan does not mean that we need to do anything towards protecting the Iranian oil reserves. Why don't we let China do that this time?
Some of the above comments are serious, others are not. Your own values and beliefs will determine which are which.
[ Meg, exactly which years were you living in Iran?
We were there from 1976 until December 1978 or January 1979
My oldest brother graduated from Tehran American School - his was the last graduating class
This was his high school
And I went to the elementary school. I was 7, 8 and 9 when we lived there
I actually got to meet Reza Pahlavi at one point because my father worked at Doshan Tappah Air Base outside of Tehran with the Iranian Air Force
For me, Iran was a wonderful country, because I was a child at that point, I had all the freedom in the world to wander and explore in our neighborhood. I had a guard that followed me wherever I went but I never really noticed that he was there - he was in the background.
If anyone wants - I'll get some of the pics from Iran and scan them in and post them
Very interesting... pics would be nice, but stories can be even better.
Was the anti-American sentiment you described present in the children as well? I figure only about 1/3 of the country's current population was even alive to witness/participate in that revolution. I'm not sure if that sentiment is a constant, or if it's something that becomes passé over time.
Judging by the young Iranian I saw mimicking Jon Stewart's Bush impression the other night on TV, I'm hoping it's the latter.
Was the anti-American sentiment you described present in the children as well?
actually it wasn't - I had several friends in the neighborhood that we ran around with. But - the neighborhood we lived in was about 1/2 American and about 1/2 Iranian diplomats also.
It was about 2 blocks from the Shah's secret police compound. I can remember hearing gunshots as we sat on the terrace one night and asking my parents what they were. My parents were always pretty honest with me - especially living in a foriegn country. Anyway - they -matter of factly - told me that at times prisoners were executed and that the gunshots were probably executions.
