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It isn't official yet, but it sounds like Vick will be reinstated with a four-game suspension at the beginning of the season... if someone's willing to take him, of course.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Jul 24, 2009 18:24:38 GMT -5
I think he'll probably get picked up by a struggling team. He'll be the backup QB, and will probably get to play in some wildcat formations and trick play situations. He will likely have lost some of his speed, which will expose him as the average/below-average QB he's always been. His new team will likely want to move him to a slot receiver and special teams returner, and if he doesn't handle the transition well, he'll finish his career in Canada or Arena League. His new team will probably not play "Who Let the Dogs Out" on the PA system during games.
I thought the Raiders would be likely team to consider him, and I thought about the possibilities of him in Miami wildcat formations. Something tells me it will be somewhere in the south, where the fanbase is probably less likely to frown upon the dogfighting.
Ew. I'm definitely a football lover (GO PACK GO!!!!), but I really hate that they've reinstated him. It makes me not want to spend my Sunday at a bar drinking the beer that they profit from. How can anyone support hurting animals? I feel like by letting him back that's exactly what they're doing. He sucks and so does Roger Goodell for letting him back.
I thought the Raiders would be likely team to consider him, and I thought about the possibilities of him in Miami wildcat formations. Something tells me it will be somewhere in the south, where the fanbase is probably less likely to frown upon the dogfighting.
Yet I wouldn't put it past Buffalo, either.
What makes you think we're okay with dog fighting?? I think, if anything, it's the opposite...people have a greater appreciation for man's best friend. Dirty rednecks who like that kind of thing probably exist everywhere, not exclusively down here.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Jul 24, 2009 23:57:31 GMT -5
I dunno, he spent nearly two years in prison for what he did. It sucks and he sucks for it, but people deserve second chances. I don't think it's wrong of Goodell to give him the opportunity to make amends. If no team wants the toxic atmosphere Vick will bring with him, that's another story.
My brother-in-law owns a restaurant that hires work-release prisoners as kitchen help. It doesn't mean he supports the crimes they committed.
I dunno, he spent nearly two years in prison for what he did. It sucks and he sucks for it, but people deserve second chances. I don't think it's wrong of Goodell to give him the opportunity to make amends. If no team wants the toxic atmosphere Vick will bring with him, that's another story.
My brother-in-law owns a restaurant that hires work-release prisoners as kitchen help. It doesn't mean he supports the crimes they committed.
The thing is, he has done his time and may be getting back into an industry that pays a minimum of several hundred thousand dollars and can quickly escalate into multi-millions. It's not exactly the same as working as a prep cook.
Additionally, he will be in the limelight playing in front of 50K+ fans. What kind of message does that send to kids? Everything is forgiven -- let's buy his jersey and cheer him on? I'm not on board with that.
I'm fine with him getting a minimum wage job and moving on with his life. He had an extremely rare opportunity to compete at the highest level in professional sports and was well compensated for it. He used that opportunity to cultivate a dog-fighting league? F*ck him.
Buffalo has not been a fan of running quarterbacks in the last decade. They drafted Losman and spent all their time trying to train him to be a pocket quarterback.
They do run the wildcat a little bit (Roscoe Parrish is a former QB and apparently still pretty talented. Marshawn Lynch has thrown a TD or two in the last couple of seasons.) but I do not see them going after Vick.
If they were looking for something different at QB they wouldn't have signed Ryan Fitzpatrick -- another "smart" QB not known for runnning or a cannon arm -- this off-season. Additionally, with all of the extracurricular activities that have already occurred with this team (Lynch's two incidents, Ko Simpson's incident, Donte Whitner's incident, Corey McEntire's non-incident) and the media frenzy surrounding Owens, I think they'll stay out of the Mike Vick business.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Jul 25, 2009 21:10:09 GMT -5
No, it's not the same as working in a kitchen, but it is something he's qualified to do. The amount of money he could make has nothing to do with it. He broke the law (anyone here broken any laws before?), and no matter how reprehensible his actions were, he has paid for it, and probably will continue to pay for it.
Nobody's saying you have to like the guy, or even forgive him, but when people get a second chance it doesn't come with the stipulation that they can only get minimum wage jobs for the rest of their lives. If we, as a society, sent the message that reformed criminals can never make anything of themselves, what kind of message would that send? Do we really want to tell people that there's no point in reforming?
He has so far given every indication that he plans to be a PR person for animal rights groups trying to teach people the reasons not to do what he did. If he lives up to his promise to do so, I'd say he can send a pretty good message to kids.
I'm not saying that he has to start out at minimum wage. What I'm saying is that he shouldn't go from prison to running an NFL team, just like if he was a qualified doctor you wouldn't want him to go from prison to chief of surgery. NFL QB is an extremely high profile position with a long history of being a role model for kids. I don't think that he should get out of prison after two years, sit out four games and then be given such a high-profile opportunity. I think that there is a large middle ground between serving your time and getting to start your life over again and receiving public absolution from the most popular professional sports organization in the country.
What it comes down to is that he is responsible for the death of a number of dogs for fun and financial gain. It was a reprehensible crime and I am not ready to forgive.
We all know that his PR work for animal rights is a load of face-saving crap. It's not like he's been educated and now he knows that pitting dogs together for yucks and profit is wrong. He had to have known this before and did not care. Now that he's been caught, he thinks that he's a credible role model for children? "Hey kids, don't be a heartless a-hole like me. Go buy my jersey!"
No, I think that the better message to kids is if you get your jollies torturing animals your future is pretty bleak, even if you make millions upon millions in salary and endorsements. There are some things so wrong that talent and money cannot overcome, so really think about the consequences of your actions because there are some things that cannot be undone.
Post by nitetimeritetime on Jul 25, 2009 23:43:25 GMT -5
Like I said already, I doubt he'll be chief of surgery ever again. If he gets picked up by any team, it probably won't be as a starting QB. I could be wrong about that, but I think he'll get a shot as somebody else's backup at best, or maybe as a slot/returner type player. His only real asset has always been his speed, and my guess is that ability will be diminished by the time he gets a shot on the field again.
It may also be the case that no team will even touch him, and that's fine because no team should be compelled to give him a job. But at the same time, I don't think it's fair to say Goodell sucks for giving him a probationary chance. Either way, I doubt we'll be seeing any Vick jerseys out there for a long time, if ever again. I think most people -- myself included -- feel like you do, and will never forgive him for what he did. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be given a chance to try to reform his life.
I also have my suspicions about his motive for the PR work he's doing. But the president of the Humane Society said Vick can make a difference, and if he does, then he (the pres) doesn't really care about Vick's motivation for doing it.
Some things can't be undone, and Vick's image probably won't ever recover from this. But I think people deserve a chance to try to make amends for their past sins, even if nobody wants to forgive them.
Something tells me it will be somewhere in the south, where the fanbase is probably less likely to frown upon the dogfighting
What makes you think we're okay with dog fighting?? I think, if anything, it's the opposite...people have a greater appreciation for man's best friend. Dirty rednecks who like that kind of thing probably exist everywhere, not exclusively down here.
I didn't say everyone down South is okay with dogfighting - just more likely to be. Vick played for Atlanta and the incidents occurred in Virginia... just saying. It's also worth noting that the 50th state to enact a prohibition on cockfighting was Louisiana...
So yeah... I do believe a Southern team owner would probably lose less Vick boycott dollars than, say, New England or Seattle.
i think the 49ers would be the best place for him. Singletary would make sure he doesnt get out of line. i think he would be the perfect coach for Vick. The west coast offense is also something he would thrive in. Not to mention that would be a awesome jersey to look at(VICK 49er). Alex Smith is pathetic and they need some spark to their team.
SF gets my vote.
Last Edit: Jul 26, 2009 0:51:29 GMT -5 by theroo420 - Back to Top
Post by strumntheguitar on Jul 26, 2009 16:13:45 GMT -5
I'm gonna preface this by saying I hate Michael Vick. I don't care for any team he's ever played for, and was damn glad he was sentenced and punished as he was. He has deserved everything he has experienced the last two years, from the public shunning by PETA to the bankruptcy while in jail. He definitely deserved all of that, without a doubt.
What he doesn't deserve is to not be given a shot in the NFL again. I mean come on, anybody who looks at the NFL as a place for role models for their kids is just ridiculous. Oh look, there's Ray Lewis, all-star of the Ravens who was charged with murder and aggravated assault back in 2000. It was reduced to just an obstruction of justice, but that's probably because he plays in the NFL and they're typically immune to being charged with murder, unless it involves dogs. There's Brandon Marshall, who was arrested last season for the 4th time in just a 3 year span, but his 4th arrest on a disorderly conduct charge after getting in a brawl was dropped, probably for the same reason. Let's not forget about Raider's tackle Cornell Green who beat the mother of his children with an aluminum mop handle and was charged with domestic violence. But he probably won't even be suspended a game because he hasn't gotten in trouble before. I could go on, but I think the point is pretty clear...
It seems to me that Vick has been treated harsher for his crimes than any other NFL player who has gotten in conflicts with other humans. Vick hosted dogfighting rounds at his house. Clearly it's wrong, and I by no means support it. He's paid his time, and suffered more public shunning and more punishment from the NFL than any other player who insists on repeatedly breaking the law. Let him play. The NFL is no place for role models. It never will be
Post by awolfatthedoor on Jul 27, 2009 3:49:06 GMT -5
I'm a Rams fan and I would definitely take him and a two-year contract. And I can't believe the fuss people are making over him being allowed back in the league, but Leonard Little wasn't even suspended after he was found guilty for killing someone, but he was driving drunk so its ok..??? And then Little got arrested and convicted of a DUI later. There are people in the NFL that have done far worse things than dog fighting, as disgusting as dog fighting is
Kdogg--I think you should get past your yankee superiority complex and come visit the south so you can see how wrong you are. BTW, in Conn. they have recently busted a cockfighting ring, so.....yeah bad people are everywhere.
And Strum, I just really have to disagree w/you about him "deserving" a chance to return. Now I realize the NFL has sort of set a precedent by allowing other criminals to return, but I think that they should have a provision stating that if you are convicted of a felony, your contract will be terminated. Sorry, your own damn fault I'm not going to sit around feeling sorry for you.
Furthermore, you try to make a point about a few "bad seeds" who are certainly not role-model material. But there are also plenty of players who are good people and involved in their communities who are good role models.
I think I have the unique perspective of being a born-and-raised southern girl, living in Atlanta and going to school at the very diverse Georgia State University when this started going on. I think the local community here has a very loud voice, and while there are exceptions (for every idiot still wearing there #7 jersery) I would say the vast majority of people pretty much hate that disgusting dog killer.
Don't go trying to make me look like some virtue-monger when that's not the case. I was making an observation more than a judgement call.
I never said that Southerners were, as a whole, in favor of Vick's actions. I said there'd probably be less of a backlash, in a business sense, and I don't think that's terribly off the mark. You can't tell me a team interested in signing Vick will only think of this in terms of gameplay. There are business consequences to signing him that will affect the six days a week he's not playing. I actually agree with those of you who think Vick's been excessively punished comparative to other players.
And Strum, I just really have to disagree w/you about him "deserving" a chance to return. Now I realize the NFL has sort of set a precedent by allowing other criminals to return, but I think that they should have a provision stating that if you are convicted of a felony, your contract will be terminated. Sorry, your own damn fault I'm not going to sit around feeling sorry for you.
Furthermore, you try to make a point about a few "bad seeds" who are certainly not role-model material. But there are also plenty of players who are good people and involved in their communities who are good role models.
I'm not saying he deserves a 2nd chance. I'm just saying he doesn't deserve to not be given the opportunity if he wishes to take it. Maybe I'm being kind of counter intuitive and confusing with that notion, cause typing it out I realized it is kinda dumb. Regardless, I certainly don't feel sorry for him or his situation. Like you have said, he put himself in that position and if he's not allowed back I wouldn't lose any sleep or feel any remorse over it.
Basically I think if Vick wants to come back to the NFL and stays out of future trouble and any public confrontations, then by all means he should be allowed to continue to play football. I just don't think the NFL has ever set the precedent of once you commit a felony you're out and for good. I don't think it's fair to enact that rule based on one particular individual's situation. I'm not saying it's a bad rule to follow or that it wouldn't help out the league's reputation, but it should be imposed at a time when there isn't a convicted felon trying to be reinstated.
And I definitely agree with you that there are some genuine guys in the NFL that do more to help the community and the world than many of us here. There's no doubt about that, but unfortunately it's always the scum of the group that sets the reputation in the public eyes more often than not. It's sad but true I think, although I could be way off base with that presumption. I just feel like most people when they think of one's character in the NFL, they're more likely to immediately think of a drunk driving reckless and moral-less individual who has more sports cars than brain cells; as opposed to the kindhearted player who donates a portion of his paycheck to charities and helps teach at kid football camps and devotes his time off the field to family and community.
cant believe im saying this but i agree with T.O. Vick has paid his debt to society. 2 year prison sentence. All endorsement deals gone. All $ gone.. Everything gone. And rightfully so. He deserved all punishment thrown his way.
Now it would be absurd to prolong his suspension 6 wks into the season. why? hes already maned up and is being very active to do the best to improve a HORRIBLE image. Im ready to see him play again.
Post by Fishing Maniac on Jul 27, 2009 18:20:51 GMT -5
^^^ Hell no. The only reason I would like to see him play is because I'm sure that there is some GIGUNDEOUS dog loving defensive end out there just waiting to administer a paralyzing injury to that bastard. I would love to see the slo-mo replay shot at high speed in HD of his vertebrate being dislodge, his spine snapping and his body being rendered completely useless. I want to watch it real time also so I can here the bones snapping.
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cant believe im saying this but i agree with T.O. Vick has paid his debt to society. 2 year prison sentence. All endorsement deals gone. All $ gone.. Everything gone. And rightfully so. He deserved all punishment thrown his way.
Now it would be absurd to prolong his suspension 6 wks into the season. why? hes already maned up and is being very active to do the best to improve a HORRIBLE image. Im ready to see him play again.
I'm on board with this, the man has basically already served a two seasons suspension, let him get back to living. Strum hit it exactly on the nose when he said the NFL is not a league of role models, and never was. You are watching athletes, not role models, and you watch them for their athletic prowess, not because they are good people. These guys are 20 year olds with millions of dollars handed to them, most people would not make good decisions in their shoes, and these players are no exception. The NFL has employed plenty of criminals just as bad as Vick, this is nothing new, and isn't going to change. And to Maniac, don't get your hopes up, because if you don't think that every defensive player isn't trying to do that every play you have not known any high level athletes. When those guys are out on the field they are out for blood, no matter who you are. If people don't like him being reinstated, don't watch, the NFL is not losing any sleep over it.
As for the actual football situation, I would not be surprised to see up to half the league express interest in Vick. He possesses a unique set of skills, and to those saying he is a sub par quarter back, he does throw an excellent deep ball, making him perfect to run the wildcat. Whatever team takes him will take him on as a situational player to run 10-15 snaps a game in the wildcat. If you are telling me there are 64 better quarterbacks in the league I am going to tell you to lay off crack pipe. I personally would not be surprised to see him end up New England. They have the locker room to be able to handle media, and Belichick loves versatile players. I am sure that Vick will find many teams to be interested, and that many people will be interested in seeing him play again when he eventually returns.
State / # incidents / state share of national incidents Florida 24 11.71% California 24 11.71% North Carolina 15 7.32% Texas 14 6.83% Georgia 10 4.88% Illinois 10 4.88% Pennsylvania 9 4.39% Ohio 9 4.39% New York 8 3.9% Alabama 8 3.9% Tennessee 6 2.93% Louisiana 6 2.93% South Carolina 5 2.44% Mississippi 5 2.44% Wisconsin 5 2.44% Arizona 5 2.44% Washington 4 1.95% Michigan 4 1.95% Minnesota 3 1.46% Kansas 3 1.46% New Jersey 3 1.46% New Mexico 3 1.46% Virginia 3 1.46% Arkansas 2 0.98% Kentucky 2 0.98% Hawaii 2 0.98% Oregon 2 0.98% Delaware 2 0.98% Indiana 1 0.49% West Virgnia 1 0.49% Colorado 1 0.49% Missouri 1 0.49% Idaho 1 0.49% Oklahoma 1 0.49% Connecticut 1 0.49% Maryland 1 0.49% Utah 1 0.49%
Total: 205
Separate the states I'd consider the South: Florida, N. Carolina, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Louisiana, S. Carolina, Mississippi, Missouri, Kentucky, Virginia & W. Virginia...
That's 13 states - roughly a quarter of the country. If, as you say, there is no regional basis to assume an attitude towards animal fighting... that should work out to roughly one-quarter of the animal fighting incidences in this one-quarter of the country. Correct?
Let's take a look...
Those 13 states I listed account for 96 of 205 incidents. That works out to 46.83% of the animal fighting on a national scope... if this kind of thing were to be the same across the board, it would be more in the 25% neighborhood...
Care to take back what you said about my statement merely being a "Yankee superiority complex?"