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I see this along the same lines as Nash going to the Lakers. Those guys played incredible careers with teams that never really had a shot because their owners couldn't pull their heads out of their asses.
I see no problem with Ichiro trying to win a ring in the twilight of his career.
Post by Longtime and Frequent Poster on Jul 24, 2012 8:13:32 GMT -5
This isn't really pertinent to the discussion at all, but it seems weird to count a catcher as an infielder. Half the Yankees infield is homegrown, which isn't that unusual.
I can't hate that guy, you see the press conference? I've never seen him speak before, he was so professional.
"To tell the truth, I'm not excited to go to Cleveland, but we have to. If I ever saw myself saying I'm excited going to Cleveland, I'd punch myself in the face, because I'm lying."
I'm assuming something was lost in translation, but even still it's one of my favorite sports quotes.
He really is a tremendous player and a freak athlete. The guy is going to rack up 3,000 hits in the MLB after getting nearly 1,500 hits in Japan. That's a staggering number, when you realize he's only been playing for 20 years. Let's say Ichiro finishes solidly and is left with about 350 hits until 3,000. That means in two seasons (his 22nd professional season), he'd have nearly 4,500 hits. In 23 seasons Pete Rose (who has the record for most hits in a career, obvs) had 4,256, or 185 hits/year. Including his Japanese years, Ichiro would have ~4,500 hits over 22 seasons, or a yearly average of about 203-204.
Ichiro's name belongs in the same breath as Rose, Cobb, Musial, etc., but I fear he might never get his due. I don't care that some of the hits came in Japan, Ichiro is a savant with a bat in his hand.
Post by awolfthedoor on Jul 24, 2012 13:41:56 GMT -5
ichiro, if only considering his united states stats, is not a hof. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and call him a hof because his us career is too short.
Post by Longtime and Frequent Poster on Jul 24, 2012 14:32:47 GMT -5
I'm not so sure Ichiro's a full time player after this year (I mean hitting-wise he shouldn't be, doesn't mean he won't be), so 3,000 hits isn't exactly a guarantee. He's about 430+ away, so he'd basically need at least two full time seasons after this one, averaging like 180-190 each year. He was a bad hitter last year and is worse this year, I'm just not sure it happens unless he plays until he's 43 or something which I guess could happen.
I'm not so sure Ichiro's a full time player after this year (I mean hitting-wise he shouldn't be, doesn't mean he won't be), so 3,000 hits isn't exactly a guarantee. He's about 430+ away, so he'd basically need at least two full time seasons after this one, averaging like 180-190 each year. He was a bad hitter last year and is worse this year, I'm just not sure it happens unless he plays until he's 43 or something which I guess could happen.
I don't necessarily disagree, but he still had 180 hits last year, so a sub-par Ichiro can still bang out 150 hits easily. Let's say he makes it to 170 this year, that'd put him 400 away from 3,000, so I'd say in 3 seasons he could definitely accomplish it.
But then again, he may not want to since he's had such a long and successful career. I wouldn't be surprised if he retired this year if the Yankees win it and he gets his ring.
I'm not so sure Ichiro's a full time player after this year (I mean hitting-wise he shouldn't be, doesn't mean he won't be), so 3,000 hits isn't exactly a guarantee. He's about 430+ away, so he'd basically need at least two full time seasons after this one, averaging like 180-190 each year. He was a bad hitter last year and is worse this year, I'm just not sure it happens unless he plays until he's 43 or something which I guess could happen.
But then again, he may not want to since he's had such a long and successful career. I wouldn't be surprised if he retired this year if the Yankees win it and he gets his ring.
I could see that as well. And as much as I hate the Yankees I guess it'd be a cool way for him to go out.
Poor Seattle though. One championship in major sports history and it was 30+ years ago by a team that doesn't exist anymore, can't keep A-Rod, Griffey, Johnson, and now the face of the franchise for the last 10+ years (yeah Felix whatever) is traded to the team that knocked off their 116 win team. And that's in addition to them being the f*cking Yankees.
Post by funkybuttlovin on Jul 24, 2012 15:03:11 GMT -5
If you include ichiros hits from the Japan league which is still a solid competitive league, ichiro is closing in on Pete Rose. Was it 10 seasons in a row he had 200+ hits?
He is a future first ballot hall of famer and absolutely comparable to Stan the man and others. Maybe not all around but hitting sense ichiro is one of the best of all time.
I meant in a pure hitting sense. Ichiro is as natural a hitter as this game has ever had. I stand by that.
Do I think he's as good overall as Stan Musial was? No.
And Awatd, don't think for a second Stan the Man's name went in there by accident.
Don't think the fact that you did that went over my head.
Over reacted still. Don't care
youre crazy.
dude doesn't walk. doesn't have power. "pure hitter" is an equivalent of slap hitter.
I'll have to look for it, but I read an article a while back that basically said Ichiro could be any kind of hitter he wanted, and he would routinely crush 400 foot bombs in batting practice. It would've been very interesting if he decided he wanted to hit 20 hr's a year, of it he played in a bandbox stadium like Philly or the Yankees have and slapped 15-25 home runs during his prime.
If you include ichiros hits from the Japan league which is still a solid competitive league, ichiro is closing in on Pete Rose. Was it 10 seasons in a row he had 200+ hits?
He is a future first ballot hall of famer and absolutely comparable to Stan the man and others. Maybe not all around but hitting sense ichiro is one of the best of all time.
He has a lower batting average than Musial and literally 20% the home runs of Musial. I'd love to hear the comparison.
"Maybe not all around" is weird though, because Ichiro is (was) a phenomenal defensive player.
Post by nodepression on Jul 24, 2012 15:29:46 GMT -5
Saw a stat yesterday that Ichiro has saved 12 runs, this year. Pretty amazing for a guy his age. Especially when you compare it to the rest of the Yankees outfield, Granderson has 2 I think, and Swisher and Jones are both in the negatives.
Saw a stat yesterday that Ichiro has saved 12 runs, this year. Pretty amazing for a guy his age. Especially when you compare it to the rest of the Yankees outfield, Granderson has 2 I think, and Swisher and Jones are both in the negatives.
He's also statistically been the worst qualifying offensive OF since some time last year. Borderline useless at the plate, the .288 OBP this year is laughably bad
Saw a stat yesterday that Ichiro has saved 12 runs, this year. Pretty amazing for a guy his age. Especially when you compare it to the rest of the Yankees outfield, Granderson has 2 I think, and Swisher and Jones are both in the negatives.
He's also statistically been the worst qualifying offensive OF since some time last year. Borderline useless at the plate, the .288 OBP this year is laughably bad
Yankee stadium is obviously much easier to hit in than Safeco, but yeah he's been brutal.
In all honesty he's probably a platoon player at best at this point, but I'm sure they want his fielding out there as much as possible.
Worst-case scenario is he provides better outfield defense and brings speed to a lineup that hasn't had any since Gardner went down. Best-case scenario is he becomes rejuvenated by playing for a contender and gets his OBP back up to Ichiro standards. The Yankees really can't lose on the deal.