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I agree with Kelaroo. Something fishy is going on.
Although I was the first to mention it, I’m not so sure Bek’s weird vote switch is suspicious enough to vote her off. You would think that she would've realized how strange that would look and if she were mafia, she wouldn’t be so quick to draw attention to herself. Hopefully she signs in soon to defend herself.
Does anyone find FFYM’s behavior a little odd? This makes twice that he has voted last and he has been really quite. He hasn’t played in any of the games I’ve read, so it might just be his playing style. Just throwing that out there…
He wasn't saving his own butt. If you look at the vote tally she had 4 and kdogg had 2. He could have voted Kdogg and still killed Bek.
i am voting bek b/c of the forgot vote change. i knew about her and kdogg's agreement before hand so i thought it was kind of weird when she didn't do that at first.
the reason i am open to change is that i think bacon seems kind of guilty, and he voted for bek which kind of makes me not want to vote for her. if that makes sense.
She might have just forgotten since her and kdogg are so used to voting each other. I am no way implying she's innocent because I really don't know. But i do think it's safe to say she's the least guilty by all the votes she has against her.
Well, as I've said several times, I have no reason to suspect NBF at this point. I'm changing my vote to FFYM, mostly to try to bring him into the discussion.
I think we need to look at bek and kdogg and would be willing to bet that one of them is mafia; I don't think they both are or else they would have remembered their agreement or at least not have even mentioned it. Anyone else see this?
Mike D>>Bacon>>Kdogg
So you're saying that we can't both be Mafia because one of us brought up the agreement, suggesting that bringing up the agreement implies innocence... but then vote the player who brought up that agreement? How do you reconcile that?
Here's what I do notice, other than the bickering, kdogg has had surprisingly little to say so far. ($10 says his answer to this is that he's been busy working.) I think I'm going to change my vote to kdogg because, as of right now, he seems more suspicious to me than FFYM or bek. As always, I'm open to hearing a good argument for changing another direction.
I will note that you wrote this while I was actually at work...
I will also note that: My personal computer is on the fritz unusable as of late, so I've been checking in on others lately. It's not just this thread, I'm here less in general. Fantasy football is gearing up, and it's been taking up a good chunk of the time I do get online. I will admit I've been giving it more attention than this game. Last game I was a wordy Townsperson Day One and I got whacked Night One. I do not wish to have a repeat.
When I look at what's gone on since my last post, I think I see what's going on. I think Kel & EAP are onto something here.
the reason i am open to change is that i think bacon seems kind of guilty, and he voted for bek which kind of makes me not want to vote for her. if that makes sense.
She might have just forgotten since her and kdogg are so used to voting each other. I am no way implying she's innocent because I really don't know. But i do think it's safe to say she's the least guilty by all the votes she has against her.
I must say I find this highly suspicious. I pointed out three players with zero votes in making a deal with Bacon; Bacon actually chose the one we'd both vote for to save ourselves Bacon chose Bek. All the sudden the runoff starts, and Bek shot up to take the lead in voting. Something definitely seems suspicious here.
I'm wishing I had kept Bacon in the runoff rather than Bek. Even when I cooperated with Bacon, I still wound up in the runoff. A Mafia would arrange to have you stabbed in the back like that...
kdogg >>> null
I know I'm innocent, and the way these votes are going I'm starting to suspect Bek is as well. I encourage Bek voters to reconsider their choice. You might not trust me, but the votes are harder to argue with.
In the interest of the next runoff round including both FFYM and NBF: kdogg >>> NBF
i am voting bek b/c of the forgot vote change. i knew about her and kdogg's agreement before hand so i thought it was kind of weird when she didn't do that at first.
the reason i am open to change is that i think bacon seems kind of guilty, and he voted for bek which kind of makes me not want to vote for her. if that makes sense.
EAP... you do realize that if you suggest Bek had an ulterior motive for not voting along with that agreement, you are suggesting Bek was in cahoots with Hippie. If you're suggesting Bek was in cahoots with Hippie, wouldn't it logically follow that you're suggesting Bek is now in cahoots with you?
Could you either refute this logic or reconsider your vote?
I think we need to look at bek and kdogg and would be willing to bet that one of them is mafia; I don't think they both are or else they would have remembered their agreement or at least not have even mentioned it. Anyone else see this?
Mike D>>Bacon>>Kdogg
So you're saying that we can't both be Mafia because one of us brought up the agreement, suggesting that bringing up the agreement implies innocence... but then vote the player who brought up that agreement? How do you reconcile that?
I will note that you wrote this while I was actually at work...
I will also note that: My personal computer is on the fritz unusable as of late, so I've been checking in on others lately. It's not just this thread, I'm here less in general. Fantasy football is gearing up, and it's been taking up a good chunk of the time I do get online. I will admit I've been giving it more attention than this game. Last game I was a wordy Townsperson Day One and I got whacked Night One. I do not wish to have a repeat.
When I look at what's gone on since my last post, I think I see what's going on. I think Kel & EAP are onto something here.
She might have just forgotten since her and kdogg are so used to voting each other. I am no way implying she's innocent because I really don't know. But i do think it's safe to say she's the least guilty by all the votes she has against her.
I must say I find this highly suspicious. I pointed out three players with zero votes in making a deal with Bacon; Bacon actually chose the one we'd both vote for to save ourselves Bacon chose Bek. All the sudden the runoff starts, and Bek shot up to take the lead in voting. Something definitely seems suspicious here.
I'm wishing I had kept Bacon in the runoff rather than Bek. Even when I cooperated with Bacon, I still wound up in the runoff. A Mafia would arrange to have you stabbed in the back like that...
kdogg >>> null
I know I'm innocent, and the way these votes are going I'm starting to suspect Bek is as well. I encourage Bek voters to reconsider their choice. You might not trust me, but the votes are harder to argue with.
In the interest of the next runoff round including both FFYM and NBF: kdogg >>> NBF
No, I said I don't think you both are. I reconcile that by saying exactly what I did before, I feel something weird is going on with the two of you. Either that or you two really did want to drive away hippie this game and I'll vote someone off for that just the same as if I think your mafia. All I said before was that we need to look at it and I wanted another opinion on it from someone else.
Post by NothingButFlowers on Aug 31, 2010 11:35:07 GMT -5
EAP, any particular reason you think bacon seems kind of guilty? He hasn't said much, but neither have FFYM, Jen, or HGH.
kdogg, as it stands now, the only way the next runoff would include both me and FFYM would be if either you or bek came out of it.
MikeD, my instinct says that kdogg and bek really did want to drive away hippie (or at least give her sh!t for the last game, if not drive her off). Kdogg voted according to their agreement, bek did not, which means, she either actually forgot, or she had a reason to (a) not vote hippie, or (b) vote for kdogg. It is also not impossible that the two of them are working together and they staged the whole forgetting the agreement just to try to make it look like they aren't working together.
The vote stacking thing: there were definitely an awful lot of votes for bek all at once, but I think the whole vote stacking argument can be misleading. At the highest, there were 5 votes for bek (her highest count on the vote tally was 4 but that was because kel nulled her vote before the new vote tally was posted), which means there were 6 votes not for bek. One of those votes was hers. That leaves 5 other people not voting for her. If she is mafia (and I'm not at all saying she is, just trying to think this out), that means it's likely that 2 out of the 5 people not voting for her are also mafia. I was one of the people not voting for her and I know I'm not mafia, which makes it 2 out of 4 from my perspective, but that's not exactly far-fetched. There's also the possibility that at least 1 of the people voting with her could have been her fellow mafia. After all, she went from having 5 votes to having 3 now. On the other hand, if she is innocent (and, again, I'm not saying she is), then all of these votes against her mean very little except that probably at least 1 mafia voted for her and at least 1 has voted for someone else (because, in my experience, mafia try to diversify their votes as much as possible).
Post by ☮ superbek ☮ on Aug 31, 2010 13:32:23 GMT -5
oh gawd.... what a welcome back this is! boo hoo hoo! People are voting for me, I QUIT! jk! ;D
Wellllllll, obviously what we have here is a vote stacker in Lincoln Park, he is climbing in your thread, snatching your people up so you better hide your kids, hide your wife, and hide your hippies cause they raping everbody out here.
Really and truly, I forgot about my pre-arrangement with kdogg, when he reminded me, I had no problem changing my vote to hippie.... would I have taken part in all that drama had I been mafia? NO.
I'm not mafia, not sure about kdogg, leaning no on NBF, and I hate to see FFYM go early being his first game back in forever and all. This round is tough... I too wish we would have put bacon in the run off. I mean, he was quick to change his vote for me, wasn't he? geez....
I think the proposed vote stacking against me (which has temporarily subsided) further proves my innoccence but hey, that's just me.
Even though I was one of the ones with zero votes I am usually in favor of trying to get players with zero votes into the run-off. I think in this case it was WAY too easy to stack votes against Bek. It had already been pointed out that she broke (accidentally?) a pre-arranged agreement with Kdogg so that automtically gave people an excuse to vote for her. that kind of makes me think that she is inncocent and I would look to who brought her name up, which is Bacon.
This really doesn't help me in making a decision for this vote so I'll go with FFYM since he has been relatively quiet and the last voter.
Vote Tally: [Votes for players included in the runoff were carried over, change as you see fit] NBF: 2 Votes Kdogg: 3 Votes FFYM: 1 Votes Bek: 45 votes
Votes Cast: NBF >>> FFYM>>>Kdogg Bacon>>>BEK Mike D>>>kdogg SFA >>> NBF HandgunHipster >>> Fightforyourmind Jen >>> NBF Bek >>> kdogg kdogg>> BEK Kel >> Bek EAP >> Bek
Left to vote: FFYM >>> Bek
This is the vote tally to which I believe NBF is referring to, just prior to the point where Kel nulled her vote. It never appeared in this form in the thread, so strikeouts and bold were used to highlight the changes.
Bek clearly shot up to a quick lead in these votes after being put into the runoff. If Bek were Mafia being put into a runoff, I would think the votes after that would go towards a different candidate rather than her. It doesn't appear the Mafia were trying to tie things to save her, it looks like they were trying to put her into the lead. That, to me, suggests her innocence.
As NBF pointed out, there were six votes not for Bek - five when Bek's own vote is excluded. I like that deductive work, but I don't think she took it far enough. NBF focused on those five not voting for Bek. She either did not notice or chose to omit the fact that I had three votes - meaning that I received a majority of those five votes.
Combine the votes that Bek and I have, we had - at that point - 8 out of the 11 total votes cast in this game. It's understandable, given the "pure grudge vote" (and I continue to, as I initially did, contend it was just that) why the Mafia would want to jump on a situation like that. It draws attention (and votes) away from themselves.
So we have three players who did not vote for Bek or myself. Jen (voted NBF) SFA (voted NBF) HGH (voted FFYM)
(I also think it's worth noting that Jen & SFA were the other two zero-vote-receiving players I pointed out in asking Bacon to switch with me...)
Now, either all three of those players are Mafia in cahoots with one another... or we've got Mafia behind the push for Bek & kdogg in the runoff. Statistically, it's far more likely that a majority of our Mafia reside in those eight kdogg/Bek votes than within those three players. This is clearly just Mafia trying to make Bek & myself lightning rods while they continue to fly under the radar. I hope my fellow Townspeople can also see this for what it is.
I am not voting now. Bek, if you're still voting for me at the end of your next post, I'm reciprocating my vote for you.
quack it. Jen voted & Higgi tallied during the course of writing that post.
kdogg >>> FFYM
Sorry man, but my deduction hasn't swayed me towards your innocence like it has the other candidate in this runoff.
I hope we get another runoff and FFYM can chime in a little bit. I don't really agree with sending him off first round just for being quiet, but I have no idea how FFYM plays to begin with. I don't agree with your last statement Jen - " I think in this case it was WAY too easy to stack votes against Bek. It had already been pointed out that she broke (accidentally?) a pre-arranged agreement with Kdogg so that automtically gave people an excuse to vote for her." - how is this an excuse to vote for her? it seems more like a reason to me, more reason to vote her than FFYM in my opinion, unless you know something I don't which could lead me to believe that bek and yourself are quite possibly working together. . . wow, now I feel compelled to switch my vote to bek and that bek is more likely mafia than the other two in the runoff. I would have to agree with Jen though that a runoff with bek and FFYM would be useful.
edit: wow, three posts while I am typing, I guess whats done is done though.
Mike D- I am voting FFYM because he voted Bek knowing she already had more than enough votes to kill her. It has vote stacking written all over that vote IMO. And he said "for obvious reasons" when he had none because we can all read the thread and see Bek never voted him or said anything about him. And the obvious reasons wouldn't be saving his own butt, since he had the least votes at that time. So that is why I think FFYM is the most guilty party at this time. It has nothing to do with him being quiet. But Mike D you wanting to change your vote to Bek makes me think you're trying to save him. Just a thought.
It had already been pointed out that she broke (accidentally?) a pre-arranged agreement with Kdogg so that automtically gave people an excuse to vote for her. that kind of makes me think that she is inncocent and I would look to who brought her name up, which is Bacon.
The only thing I’ve found suspicious so far is Bek’s vote change, especially given the order of votes. It might be seen as a move to take out a townie under the guise of grudge votes. Having said that, I think Bek and Kdogg have too much experience for such a sloppy strategy. It just sort of seemed odd to me. And yes, I’ve read the tread from the last game and understand the reason for the grudge.
I just wanted to go ahead and clear this up. Besides kdogg's response to Bek, I was the first one to bring the vote change up. If you notice I dismiss it in the same post.
At that point, the game was chaotic and I was just trying turn the discussion away from the arguing and back to the current game. In no way was I trying to make her or kdogg a lighting rod. Bek's vote change was odd and I just put it out there to get opinions. I also dropped kdogg's name because the situation implied his involvement.
If I thought it was suspicious enough warrant a vote change, I would have switched votes. NBF's response to me got me thinking about the situation and the possible motives. My conclusion was it made no sense and it was probable an honest mistake on Bek's part.
It looks like I might have unwittingly helped the mafia stack votes.
I'm going to have to agree with Kdogg. I think at least 2 mafia are in the votes for him and Bek.
Edit: Typo
Last Edit: Aug 31, 2010 16:28:32 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I'm wishing I had kept Bacon in the runoff rather than Bek. Even when I cooperated with Bacon, I still wound up in the runoff. A Mafia would arrange to have you stabbed in the back like that...
Vote Tally: [Votes for players included in the runoff were carried over, change as you see fit] NBF: 2 Votes Kdogg: 3 Votes FFYM: 1 Votes Bek: 45 votes
Votes Cast: NBF >>> FFYM>>>Kdogg Bacon>>>BEK Mike D>>>kdogg SFA >>> NBF HandgunHipster >>> Fightforyourmind Jen >>> NBF Bek >>> kdogg kdogg>> BEK Kel >> Bek EAP >> Bek
Left to vote: FFYM >>> Bek
This is the vote tally to which I believe NBF is referring to, just prior to the point where Kel nulled her vote. It never appeared in this form in the thread, so strikeouts and bold were used to highlight the changes.
Bek clearly shot up to a quick lead in these votes after being put into the runoff. If Bek were Mafia being put into a runoff, I would think the votes after that would go towards a different candidate rather than her. It doesn't appear the Mafia were trying to tie things to save her, it looks like they were trying to put her into the lead. That, to me, suggests her innocence.
As NBF pointed out, there were six votes not for Bek - five when Bek's own vote is excluded. I like that deductive work, but I don't think she took it far enough. NBF focused on those five not voting for Bek. She either did not notice or chose to omit the fact that I had three votes - meaning that I received a majority of those five votes.
Combine the votes that Bek and I have, we had - at that point - 8 out of the 11 total votes cast in this game. It's understandable, given the "pure grudge vote" (and I continue to, as I initially did, contend it was just that) why the Mafia would want to jump on a situation like that. It draws attention (and votes) away from themselves.
So we have three players who did not vote for Bek or myself. Jen (voted NBF) SFA (voted NBF) HGH (voted FFYM)
(I also think it's worth noting that Jen & SFA were the other two zero-vote-receiving players I pointed out in asking Bacon to switch with me...)
Now, either all three of those players are Mafia in cahoots with one another... or we've got Mafia behind the push for Bek & kdogg in the runoff. Statistically, it's far more likely that a majority of our Mafia reside in those eight kdogg/Bek votes than within those three players. This is clearly just Mafia trying to make Bek & myself lightning rods while they continue to fly under the radar. I hope my fellow Townspeople can also see this for what it is.
I am not voting now. Bek, if you're still voting for me at the end of your next post, I'm reciprocating my vote for you.
quack it. Jen voted & Higgi tallied during the course of writing that post.
kdogg >>> FFYM
Sorry man, but my deduction hasn't swayed me towards your innocence like it has the other candidate in this runoff.
Call me dense, but I'm really not sure I follow your logic. The thing is, you make it sound like mafia is hugely influential and has the power to really manipulate the votes. At this stage of the game, that's just not true. Chances are, there's a mafia voting for you, a mafia voting for bek, and a mafia voting for FFYM. In my eyes, that doesn't make anybody innocent.
This is clearly just Mafia trying to make Bek & myself lightning rods while they continue to fly under the radar. I hope my fellow Townspeople can also see this for what it is.
Because (1) if I learned anything in law school, it's that people use the word "clearly" because they don't have a good, solid argument, and (2) this statement basically asks us to assume that both you and bek are innocent, and you know we can't do that.
i think bacon is guilty b/c i think it is weird he has been voting for kdogg so much. last game he was all about kdogg and saving him etc and now he votes him into a runoff (multiple times?). that seems off to me.
i am more than open to changing my vote to FFYM. though i am inclined to stay with bek, since she messed up the vote with kdogg/hippie situation and FFYM's only mistake so far is being silent. i realize their is the possibility that bek just "forgot" the vote.
