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Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jan 9, 2011 9:37:52 GMT -5
This town is a seething mass of rage right now. I am truly a little concerned about what's going to happen in the next few days. Take care out there baconus.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
I don't like that map one bit. And I see mines on that target. Bart Gordon. But he is retiring, so maybe he doesn't have to put on the bullet proof vest. Of course that don't help when they shoot you in the head.
Don't know if the shootings were political, or just a nut job. From what I can read, I'm leaning towards psycho off his meds.
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jan 9, 2011 11:18:20 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that, Druid. He's exactly right.
Sadly, even if this guy was certified nutjob that transcended simple partisan politics, he is also not the first to threaten Gabby Giffords, whom I might add is an incredibly MODERATE and sensible congresswomen. She had her office vandalized after her vote for health-care reform, and an irate teabagger who was shouting her down at a town hall on health care let a gun fall out of his belt. She's received so many death threats that it was common knowledge she was packing heat.
Also, while it's not making it to national news (for obvious reasons), local outlets have reported that the shooter's facebook listed The Tea Party and Sarah Palin as influences.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by cheeky resurrection on Jan 9, 2011 12:05:26 GMT -5
I heard them mention Palin's target campaign on NPR when the story broke yesterday... I usually don't jump on the conspiracy boat too quickly but I'm with Druid, seriously starting to freak me out.
My thoughts are with all of those affected in the shooting, I know a 9 or 10 year old child was killed
This town is a seething mass of rage right now. I am truly a little concerned about what's going to happen in the next few days. Take care out there baconus.
Honestly I have to completely disagree with this assessment. I can not think of a time that the city has ever felt more unified. While indeed anger is part of the emotion it is more sadness about what has happened and optimism as to what will happen. If anything positive can come from this I hope that this event will make everyone more aware of the necessity to have civilized political discourse without fear of violence. Whether or not the motives of the shooting were political I think this event will help people realize that no matter how different the views of the person next to you are, if they are sane, chances are they want exactly the same thing as you: what they believe is best for themselves, their family, and the country. This understanding has been lacking in Arizona for quite some time now and I already see people of all views coming together in a way that would have been unimaginable 3 months ago, when the partisanship was at its worst due the the election.
This town is a seething mass of rage right now. I am truly a little concerned about what's going to happen in the next few days. Take care out there baconus.
Honestly I have to completely disagree with this assessment. I can not think of a time that the city has ever felt more unified. While indeed anger is part of the emotion it is more sadness about what has happened and optimism as to what will happen. If anything positive can come from this I hope that this event will make everyone more aware of the necessity to have civilized political discourse without fear of violence. Whether or not the motives of the shooting were political I think this event will help people realize that no matter how different the views of the person next to you are, if they are sane, chances are they want exactly the same thing as you: what they believe is best for themselves, their family, and the country. This understanding has been lacking in Arizona for quite some time now and I already see people of all views coming together in a way that would have been unimaginable 3 months ago, when the partisanship was at its worst due the the election.
I really hope you're right. I've lived in Tucson my whole life, and while I do feel the solidarity in the community, I've also already heard the rumblings of the extreme right in this town. for example, from 790am morning show host Garret Lewis, who has been the prime local voice of the "wink-wink" threats on Gabby and other "liberals."
Tweet: GarretLewis Garret Lewis Shame on Pima Sheriff Dupnik for blaming radio and TV over the Gabrielle Giffords shooting! Wait until Monday morning at 6:07!
NPR has also reported the shooter had ties to a white supremacist organization.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
nodepression
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Inforoo's Waffle Czar & Baron Von Hipster
Post by Fishing Maniac on Jan 12, 2011 14:15:29 GMT -5
While I fully agree that Sarah Palin is an idiot, this has nothing to do with her. This is a tragedy brought about by a crazy person. Nothing is known of this guy's motivation, but it was used to blame uninvolved people within mere minutes of it happening. Such behavior is absolutely shameful. Everything I have read in this thread is just the regurgitation of rhetoric puked out by irresponsible "journalists". Sadly, I knew exactly what I was going to see when I opened this thread.
And just for the record, democrats have a target map too. Oh right. Arizona doesn't have a bullseye. Must be a republicans fault. If you are going to stoop so low as to use something so horrible as an opportunity to play the name game at least look at everyone who could be to blame. In this case, blame the wacko on the rampage, not TV personalities and failed politicians.
^Still you can not honestly say the rhetoric of the left has much in common with the angry vitriolic rhetoric coming from the right. Personally I think this guy was a lone nutbag, though it is fair to question his choice of targets given the crap being spouted over the airwaves these days.
Further on the Palin thing, she edited anybody who had anything negative to say about her off of her facebook page. This is the comment she left up, as far as I Am concerned she does not get the blame for the act but it is clear that she is one of the ones who elevated the discourse to its current level of hostility.
"It's ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as 'they' say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly."
Post by stallion pt. 2 on Jan 12, 2011 15:25:26 GMT -5
I do not blame everybody on the right for what has happened. I honestly believe the Palin map thing is nothing more than a coincidence.
BUT
There are some on the right who for years have been perpetuating an irrational fear of the government, and have, either directly or with hyperbolic rhetoric, advocated some sort of overthrowing of the government. This lunatic's actions sound an awful lot like what these extremists have been advocating. Perhaps these people should consider if this is really what they want.
John: We don't even understand our own music Spider: It doesn't, does it matter whether we understand it? At least it'll give us . . . strength John: I know but maybe we could get into it more if we understood it
Post by noeysasquatch on Jan 12, 2011 23:26:19 GMT -5
I thought Obama had some powerful words tonight for such a tragic occasion. His focus on remembrance of the lives of those lost was deeply moving and what most touched me.
The harsh political landscape may have played a role in the shooting, but it may have played no part at all. We do not know for sure if it contributed, but it is a valid point to discuss how we got to such a vicious political atmosphere. I don't believe most people on here hold Palin responsible like fishingmaniac suggests, but just are discussing her congressional target map as an example of the political atmosphere of our time. it is unfortunate that a moment like this has to happen to unite us as americans. Yes we need to tone down the rhetoric and come together, but also look at how gun safety and control can be improved as well as mental health awareness and standards so that this can be prevented in the future
"It's important for us to pause for a moment and make sure that we are talking with each other in a way that heals, not a way that wounds,"
Last Edit: Jan 13, 2011 2:12:06 GMT -5 by noeysasquatch - Back to Top
Post by steveternal on Jan 12, 2011 23:28:08 GMT -5
Thanks for some sound reasoning, stallion. It's both true that there are some on the right who certainly revel in violent/militant rhetoric, which is especially easy for those Republicans who are deep into gun rights to do... and it's also true that violent rhetoric is by no means only the stuff of the right. For instance, I know people have loved to collect photos of violent or vitriolic signs from tea party rallies and such, but there isn't a word said about the equally disturbing signs that radical leftists used to proudly display at anti-war marches just a few years ago.
To clarify, I'm not a Republican nor am I on their "side" in this debate, but I'm also not against them. Regardless of what kind of role it may have had in this tragedy, I agree there is a long-brewing climate of violence, one which the Reps are guilty of ignoring and which the Dems are guilty of refusing to share in the responsibility. There was a good op-ed in the Washington Post about this issue, and while I don't agree with much of what this guy is saying (like, that the claims against the right are totally spurious), I do agree with his take on the history and purpose behind violent rhetoric in politics. I would only add that, in a few significant ways, it has been taken too far.
This has all got to stop. Politics has turned into a hate-fest with so much mudslinging and vitriol that the real objectives of leadership and governance have taken a back seat to egomaniacal one-upmanship.
Yes, Sarah Palin is an idiot. So is Nancy Pelosi. Both these women set back the future of women in politics, as far as I am concerned. We could form an all-star team of idiots from both the right and the left.
As far as the shooter in this case, my thoughts are that he is a very unbalanced individual who became fueled by the right-wing vitriol. It could just as easily happen on the other side...just takes the right nutcase in the right place fueled by the right set of circumstances. Oh, and there are plenty of nutcases ripe for grooming out there. they are just awaiting to be "appointed" on a mission
I'm sorry for Rep. Giffords, who seems to be a very decent and good public servant. I'm sorry for her family, and for the other innocent victims and their families.
but most of all, I'm sorry for our nation and what it has become. It doesn't matter whether you bleed red or blue.
