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Post by chicagorooer on Aug 2, 2011 16:45:09 GMT -5
First off because maybe we understand the common sense dictum that you can not unilaterally pull out of a situation like the ones the Republicans put the country in, is the largest reason there are no protests
dems and republicans BOTH VOTED TO FUND THE WAR...Iraq and AFGANistan. The UN passed a resolution that gave bush authority to invade Iraq.
I see non of this when it comes to Libya or the drone attacks and invasion into pakistan....No congress approval NO un approvals
Wrong! From the inside I can tell you that the drone attacks on Libya and other countries are TOTALLY understood and implicitly approved by Congress....they want accountability for EVERY major military system at least quarterly. That is a Congressional Law. It's easy to distance yourself from the situation for political reasons, but the reality is that NO ONE in Congress wants to be responsible for ANY deaths...civilain, foreign, collateral or military. That is the absolute WORSE CASE scenario for ANYONE in a political position.
So lets answer your question with a question shall we? Where were all the tea partiers while the Republicans were running up these huge deficits? I find it hard to take them seriously about fiscal responsibility when they were never interested in it before Obama got elected.
This is a valid question. These same people existed in our nation for sometime now. Even when good old GWB was in office. However after Bush ran Leno up and now obama took it to the next level it's gotten out of control. Tea party folks aren't just republicans what makes you think that?? It's people that want smaller gov't and less taxes. I have no idea what's so crazy about that
I guess the powers to be (liberals) really didn't care about the soldiers or war. They made it a cause to rally against to help discredit Bush so democrats could win the 2008 election
I take great offense at this statement. I am against war. ALL war. I did not support Bush on the wars, and don't support Obama's position either.
I can say, from experience, here in DC that if you protest the war you are accused of: being un-American hating the troops being a communist/socialist/marxist "evil"
It is no longer safe to protest. At the last Peace rally I attended people were spit on, pushed and shoved, screamed at and generally disrespected by self-identified "patriots". AT A PEACE RALLY.
You're wrong. We are still here. We are just tired. But we still have hope.
You're wrong. We are still here. We are just tired. But we still have hope.
This made me wonder if I'd ever given a shout-out to the Democracy Addicts' We're Still Here project. I think I posted my video earlier, but in all honesty I still haven't watched it. I'm not a very big fan of watching myself on camera.
I went to La Crosse today, along the Mississippi & Minnesota border. DPW needed people to drive campaign literature, turf packets, and such to the various campaigns. I drove one of them today. My first stop was the DPW administrative office in Madison, as opposed to the field office in which I work. I've been there a few times before, and actually recognize a few faces there by now.
I was given a gas card! I'd never gotten any such thing from a campaign or office since I started getting mixed up with them in 2007. This made me unnecessarily giddy... and then I saw it was a BP gas card. Ugh.
I had about thirty boxes of materials to deliver. A staffer lent me his jeep, which was solid if not beat up for its 150k miles. It took four or five of us to load it up, and then I was off for a six-hour solo round trip. The only thing that was in there was a tennis ball tosser. That jeep had the inherent smell of dog the whole way, even with the windows down - which was usually the case, given that the A/C was shot too.
Anyway, I made it out to the Jen Shilling office in La Crosse. I was given the business card of the woman who sent me, with two contact names/numbers on the back - Kate & Matt. I gave Kate a call, as her name was listed first on the card, to let her know I was almost there. Another group of five unloaded the jeep into the office.
The Shilling office, too, was in the process of relocating to a bigger GOTV location. This is the district where the incumbent Republican is expected to lose by double digits next Tuesday. Their office was in a bit of a disarray, so I wasn't able to grab any Shilling buttons which DGP had requested. I could've used one too - I only have buttons for four of the nine Democratic candidates in these recalls. I did grab a Recall Walker bumper sticker for myself; probably should've grabbed more since our office ran out its first or second week of existence.
I wasn't there too long. I did step out back behind the winding-down office for a cigarette with one of the volunteers. Remember how I mentioned that there was a fire which took out the We Are Wisconsin office? It turns out that office was right around the corner from this office.
Kate locked up. I grabbed my camera from its charger in the jeep to head around the building so I could take some pictures before departing. Before that could happen, Matt finally came. He recognized me before I noticed anyone was even coming.
Matt's a pretty common name, so it was a bit of a surprise to find that this particular Matt was one I knew from my hometown. He was behind me a year or two in school. His father is a judge and was at one point my Sunday school teacher. He's a staffer for Rep. Ron Kind (Congress, not state) whose district covers the area. As such, he's on loan to the campaign for recall challenger Shilling.
I had intended on just snapping a couple photos by myself and leaving. Matt had just come from a candidate forum and had thirty boxes of stuff to deal with, but he had a moment to catch up. He showed me an alley which gave me a better view of the damage than I would've had from a blocked-off street. We had a smoke and did some brief catching up before we were back to the good fight. Talking about the hometown, our families, the guy Nick in charge of the office I'm in... We each came up with one-word descriptions of Nick. I said "wunderkind;" Matt found "uber-mensch" more fitting.
We exchanged numbers and he sent me an excellent picture he had gotten of the destroyed We Are Wisconsin office shortly after the fire. He said he was surprised how much mileage his photo got on the internet. I know the feeling.
Drove back to Madison. Had some problems finding the DPW staffer who owned the jeep. An autographed picture of Bowzer was hanging where it had not been hanging during my earlier visit. I got to the field office late - the uber-mensch wunderkind was going over the GOTV meeting we had Friday a second time for those who missed it. Since I had been watching the front desk for half the Friday meeting, I thought it was worth showing up for.
It's too late to share all the inside baseball numbers that were discussed in detail. Democratic candidates lead in three of the races; the other three are considered statistical ties. Let's just say I'm feeling rather encouraged.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 3, 2011 11:26:42 GMT -5
Wrong! From the inside I can tell you that the drone attacks on Libya and other countries are TOTALLY understood and implicitly approved by Congress
LOl you are joking right? No offense but not sure you have the authority to speak for everyone in congress. Second the members of congress NEED to be on record on whether they support the Libya effort ect. We need to know where they stand. It's not good enough for a 3rd party outsiders to make a blanket statement that congress aproves of what obama is doing
I mean I support what he is doing. I didn't support all his BS talk during the campaign. Such as closing gitmo, pulling out of Iraq ect.
clearly he has kept most of the GWB policies in place
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 3, 2011 11:36:44 GMT -5
I take great offense at this statement. I am against war. ALL war. I did not support Bush on the wars, and don't support Obama's position either. I can say, from experience, here in DC that if you protest the war you are accused of: being un-American hating the troops being a communist/socialist/marxist "evil"It is no longer safe to protest. At the last Peace rally I attended people were spit on, pushed and shoved, screamed at and generally disrespected by self-identified "patriots". AT A PEACE RALLY.
well nobody should be spit on or hurt and sure there are people who object to all wars like yourself. However the anti-war movements was mainstream. When was the last time you heard a celeb or a band speak out against the war. this was Norm for bush days. When was the last protest outside of Obama's house like they did in crawford texas. The protestors were well funded and organized. NOW it's all but over. You can't deny the anti-war effort has fallen off. I state it's fallen off simply b/c it was not done to stop the war but to discredit Bush and make sure a democrat was elected
Since the american people have now realized that the anti-war movement (for the vast majority) of people was nothing more than a political stunt to get obama elected it has angered people. The anti-war effort but american troops lives in danger. Along with the media they put america at risk for their own parties political gain.
Don't take my word for it. Simply take a look at the movement as a whole. It didn't stop b/c the protestors are tired or scared it stopped b/c the drum beating, the money and those that support the current president certainly don't want Obama to look bad.
Obama didn't change any policies as a matter of fact he expanded the war effort. So obam;s action coupled with the anti-war movements in action makes a clear case that the entire protest was political in nature and had little to do with what was right for the nation.
I guess some people have the right to be upset by this development
Wrong! From the inside I can tell you that the drone attacks on Libya and other countries are TOTALLY understood and implicitly approved by Congress
LOl you are joking right? No offense but not sure you have the authority to speak for everyone in congress. Second the members of congress NEED to be on record on whether they support the Libya effort ect. We need to know where they stand. It's not good enough for a 3rd party outsiders to make a blanket statement that congress aproves of what obama is doing
I mean I support what he is doing. I didn't support all his BS talk during the campaign. Such as closing gitmo, pulling out of Iraq ect.
clearly he has kept most of the GWB policies in place
No offense taken. But seriously...how many Congressional Briefings have YOU contributed to? Because I have contributed to HUNDREDS....so please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Whether the members of Congress HEAR what is briefed...that is a different story. But they have access to the reality....whether they want to hear and admit it or not.....
Wrong! From the inside I can tell you that the drone attacks on Libya and other countries are TOTALLY understood and implicitly approved by Congress
LOl you are joking right? No offense but not sure you have the authority to speak for everyone in congress. Second the members of congress NEED to be on record on whether they support the Libya effort ect. We need to know where they stand. It's not good enough for a 3rd party outsiders to make a blanket statement that congress aproves of what obama is doing
I mean I support what he is doing. I didn't support all his BS talk during the campaign. Such as closing gitmo, pulling out of Iraq ect.
clearly he has kept most of the GWB policies in place
chicagorooer. please take up mister forward up on his offer to show you how to use the quote button. your posts are essentially indecipherable. you obviously want to be heard so please learn to do it as people who read these boards understand it best. your posts quote others but appear as your own statements. your lack of understanding on how to post is really going to cause me to ignore your posts sooner than the content will.
Wrong! From the inside I can tell you that the drone attacks on Libya and other countries are TOTALLY understood and implicitly approved by Congress
LOl you are joking right? No offense but not sure you have the authority to speak for everyone in congress. Second the members of congress NEED to be on record on whether they support the Libya effort ect. We need to know where they stand. It's not good enough for a 3rd party outsiders to make a blanket statement that congress aproves of what obama is doing
I mean I support what he is doing. I didn't support all his BS talk during the campaign. Such as closing gitmo, pulling out of Iraq ect.
clearly he has kept most of the GWB policies in place
chicagorooer. please take up mister forward up on his offer to show you how to use the quote button. your posts are essentially indecipherable. you obviously want to be heard so please learn to do it as people who read these boards understand it best. your posts quote others but appear as your own statements. your lack of understanding on how to post is really going to cause me to ignore your posts sooner than the content will.
I just stopped reading them. I see his name, I keep going. Too hard to follow without the quotes.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 4, 2011 15:40:13 GMT -5
No offense taken. But seriously...how many Congressional Briefings have YOU contributed to? Because I have contributed to HUNDREDS....so please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Whether the members of Congress HEAR what is briefed...that is a different story. But they have access to the reality....whether they want to hear and admit it or not.....
to be clear I never said you don't know what you are talking about. I said you have no authority to speak on behalf of congress. In addition just b.c congress knows the reality of the situtation it doesn't mean Obama can just by pass them and go to Libya. My point has been Bushed seeked approval from congress and the UN. They actually voted on it. They didn't simply just agree to it in secret.
Obama offered no vote...I know some lady who has contributed to briefing stated congress is on board but let's just make it official
clearly he has kept most of the GWB policies in place
Yeah, because the president gets this magic wand which he can just wave overnight and change everything. Ignore the fact that he's two years into cleaning up after the eight which preceded him...
This is the second or third time you've mentioned that in this thread, largely in the company of people not in agreement with your views. I know you once brought it up in response to my mentioning the incident in which a ten-year old was spat upon for chanting "What's disgusting? Union busting!" In the past six months I've read up on plenty of reporting on these protests, and I can't recall seeing any instance of violence perpetrated by a Walker opponent. The resistance here is not spitting on little girl Walker supporters, punching collectors for signatures to recall Democratic state senators in the stomach or stabbing a Walker supporter's balloon and shoving them. So I'm just curious... do you ever make statements condemning violence to people who share your ideology? I suggest to you that they're the ones who need to hear it.
and sure there are people who object to all wars like yourself. However the anti-war movements was mainstream. When was the last time you heard a celeb or a band speak out against the war. this was Norm for bush days.
You do understand that there is a difference between opposing an impending war and opposing a war in progress, right? Once the war is underway, the issue changes from whether to go war into how to properly wage that war. You also understand that in the meantime, the economy went to hell in a handbasket under George W. Bush's watch, right?
When was the last protest outside of Obama's house like they did in crawford texas.
That's a bit harder to do. Obama is too busy actually executing the duties of his office to try and break W's record for days of a presidential term spent on vacation. Also, I find it absurd to suggest that no protesting occurs outside the White House.
I state it's fallen off simply b/c it was not done to stop the war but to discredit Bush and make sure a democrat was elected
Since the american people have now realized that the anti-war movement (for the vast majority) of people was nothing more than a political stunt to get obama elected it has angered people.
I highly doubt that in March 2003, millions of people took to the streets to oppose invading Iraq under the guise of having a little-known state senator take down an establishment frontrunner and eventually win the presidency. I've said it before, I guess I'll have to say it again: George W. Bush discredited himself.
Don't take my word for it. Simply take a look at the movement as a whole. It didn't stop b/c the protestors are tired or scared it stopped b/c the drum beating, the money and those that support the current president certainly don't want Obama to look bad.
The anti-war movement tried to warn a president who wouldn't listen and went to war under false pretenses anyway. Again, the actual invasion of a nation with our men and women in the service in harm's way reframes the debate.
So obam;s action coupled with the anti-war movements in action makes a clear case that the entire protest was political in nature and had little to do with what was right for the nation.
You surely can't be telling me that the decision to go to war was completely apolitical. I think this is another instance of you decrying in one side that which you choose to ignore in the other. Taking a partisan approach to everything means advocating for either black or white when the correct answer is some shade of grey. You're only making these attacks because you know you can't win this debate on substance. I've noticed that you have yet to say anything to justify your support for the war.
I guess some people have the right to be upset by this development
I have a development which upsets me too. I created a thread on the subject of the political situation in Wisconsin. Some troll is hijacking my thread by injecting decided national debates of years past into this which are irrelevant to the topic. If you want an open thread on national political issues, allow me to direct you to the Current issues under Obama thread.
I'm not asking you to no longer participate in this thread, I am making the reasonable request of simply asking you to stick to the topic.
There have been a couple instances where different moderators here have asked me whether action needed to be taken against you. I initiated neither contact, and declined in both instances. I'm not so certain about that any more. You were gone for four years and choose to avoid any discussion of the Bonnaroo music festival for which this community was created. You put little to no effort into understanding how to properly compose posts in this forum. Your posts show you haven't taken the time to read the majority of this thread. Your idea of being civil in conversation is to simply type "MR." in caps when you use my name. You ignore many of the questions that are asked of you. Your replies suggest you aren't putting much reading comprehension into comments people make towards you.
I have put a lot of time and effort into this movement. To a lesser extent, I have put a lot of time and effort into this thread. I've asked you to put some effort into learning how to properly use this forum, and even offered to help. I appreciate hearing and engaging with opposing views, but the fashion in which you have expressed yours is not exactly constructive nor conducive to conversation.
Now, I could just as easily send a PM to a moderator seeing if they could bring out the banhammer. I'm not going to go that route. Not yet, at least... but I could be persuaded.
So here's the deal. We'll leave it up to a jury of our peers, our fellow users of Inforoo. I could be persuaded to initiate a request for moderator intervention if and when Chicagorooer's negative karma level exceeds his number of posts. The current breakdown on that is 375 posts, -138 karma.
With those terms being laid out, let's let the Inforoosters who participate in this thread have their say on the matter.
Y'all probably have a good idea of how I feel about it. Smite early, and smite often
Also, a bit of wisdom I learned this year: those on the right haven't had a proper fight from those on the left for so long that they don't know how to handle it any more.
Still no determination as to the cause of the fire which burned down the We Are Wisconsin La Crosse office.
Right-wing front groups are sponsoring poll watchers and giving them incorrect procedural information to try and disqualify voters in Tuesday's election.
Incumbent Republican Sen. Alberta Darling is being accused of felony collusion with right-wing groups. The particular violation alleges that Darling accepted financial and other support from these groups while a budget was being written, which violates a prohibition within state campaign finance law. Groups included are the Koch Brothers' front group Americans for Prosperity, Wisconsin Right to Life - the group behind misleading absentee ballot robocalls & mailers, and Wisconsin Family Action. Darling's office refused to comply with a Freedom of Information Act request from an independent group for her communications with these groups. The independent group obtained the emails between Darling and these groups, containing evidence of the alleged conspiracy, and recently released them when Darling illegally refused to comply with the FOIA request in a timely and reasonable manner. The Democratic Party of Wisconsin has filed an official complaint alleging three felonies were committed. The Milwaukee County district attorney's office has launched an investigation into the matter.
Incumbent Republican Sen. Robert Cowles (representing Green Bay & the surrounding area) has finally agreed to debate his Democratic challenger, former De Pere mayor & Brown County executive Nancy Nusbaum... at 10am on Monday, less than 24 hours before polls open.
Now playing in Madison, less than two miles from the capitol: Opening weekend sold out.
No offense taken. But seriously...how many Congressional Briefings have YOU contributed to? Because I have contributed to HUNDREDS....so please don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about. Whether the members of Congress HEAR what is briefed...that is a different story. But they have access to the reality....whether they want to hear and admit it or not.....
to be clear I never said you don't know what you are talking about. I said you have no authority to speak on behalf of congress. In addition just b.c congress knows the reality of the situtation it doesn't mean Obama can just by pass them and go to Libya. My point has been Bushed seeked approval from congress and the UN. They actually voted on it. They didn't simply just agree to it in secret.
Obama offered no vote...I know some lady who has contributed to briefing stated congress is on board but let's just make it official
No one other than each individual Congressperson has the right to speak on BEHALF of them....however since they are public figures supposedly representing "we the people" right? We can't judge them on their actions AND words? For me actions speak volumes more than political wrangling and rhetoric. If members of Congress have ACCESS to this information and choose either to ignore it, not speak of it or act on it in private then fine. But "we the people" have a right and responsibility that they DO have access to the information and whether or not they speak out on it or act on it in any way is implicit acceptance at best and total denial of their public responsibility at worst!
My point has been Bushed seeked approval from congress and the UN. They actually voted on it. They didn't simply just agree to it in secret.
If I remember correctly Bush declared war on Iraq and then seeked approval. In that time an umbrella of fear was established and if you did not support us or with US, you are against US. Congress is responsible for their vote, they were a bunch of chicken-shits.
Chicagooer, I know Kdogg wants to get back on topic, and rightfully so, but do you support or do you think it was the right thing for US to invade Iraq?
I will make it very easy for you to quote me, just cunt-n-paste this:
Chicagooer, I know Kdogg wants to get back on topic, and rightfully so, but looking back, do you support or do you think it was the right thing for US to invade Iraq?
I feel I've been somewhat of a slacker in discussing a lot of the individuals I've been meeting in the course of all this, generally.
I would like to take some time to make sure to tell you about Diane. She's a retired state worker in her fifties whom I initially met in late May.
I first met Diane in the early days of the field office as one of the volunteers coming in. I remember the first time she came in. She was wearing a "Russ Feingold for Governor" shirt and a baseball cap. I own the same shirt myself and this commonality started a chat. She took off her cap. Her hair was closely cropped, but when she lifted the cap she revealed a scar underneath several inches long. It was from an incision.
Diane is battling brain cancer. She retired early from the state, using up her vacation and sick time before taking medical retirement. She quit working in September, had surgery in December, and had recently finished a six-month course of chemotherapy a couple weeks before coming in to volunteer with the recalls.
She wasn't with my office for long. She volunteered with us for a few weeks, and then I didn't see her for a few weeks. There were a few weeks in there where I didn't see her, between my trip to Bonnaroo and the fact that she hadn't been volunteering at my Democratic Party office anymore.
I was relieved to see her again a few weeks later. She showed up at one of the Democracy Addicts weekly gatherings. We got to catch up. She had moved over to volunteering at the We Are Wisconsin office closer to her home in the neighboring town of Fitchburg.
By our mid-July meeting, she told all of us Democracy Addicts that her cancer had returned. Her follow-ups had gone from every two months to every three months, and her recent follow-up indicated the cancer had returned. She said it would be the last meeting we were having to which she'd be able to drive herself, as she was resuming treatment and this entailed abstaining from driving.
Diane still attends our weekly Democracy Addicts meetings. She always has a ride there, because taking care of one another is essentially a big part of what this is about. She's still able to come out to join us, but her condition is definitely deteriorating. She's lost weight, she's losing vision in one of her eyes, her hands are unsteady when she tries typing on a phone. She has moved into a hospice facility (giving up her two beloved cats) and says that her prognosis is "weeks-to-months to live."
At our meeting this week, she asked me for my email address. I gave it to her (I know her hands are unsteady because I helped her enter it into her phone) and when I checked my inbox later that night, I had an invitation to a UW Hospital webpage for patients to keep friends and family informed of their situation.
She seems happy with the life she's led up to this point. Before her surgery and subsequent, she took a trip to Europe and was particularly excited to see Florence, Italy. That destination was on her bucket list.
As far as what she wants to do with the time she has left, despite her prognosis, she says she wants to fight it long enough to see Scott Walker get recalled. More pragmatically, she wants to live long enough to at least put her signature on a Recall Walker petition. Those can't be circulated until November. She's a fighter and she's got a lot of people rooting for her to do just that.
I don't know how to wrap this up. I'll confess that I've grown a bit weepy in the course of writing this. She's handled the situation with grace and without a bit of bitterness as far as I can tell. I haven't heard her say a bad word about anyone or anything in the time I've known her. I don't know if this could be happening to a nicer person. I've only just gotten to start to know her, and it's difficult knowing someone who's been fighting the good fight alongside us most likely won't be around to see it finished, but I'm glad that I've gotten an opportunity to get to know her.
One of the changes I've noticed in myself over the course of this year is that when all this began, I was a bit of a misanthrope and pessimistic about people in general. That has definitely changed. I've met a lot of good people in the capitol, in Walkerville, in my field office, at various places recalls and rallies have me going, and so on. I've met a cross-section of people in society I never would have otherwise met who have helped bring this change about in me. People aren't as bad as I thought. I'm learning this precisely because the situation here has allowed me the chance to meet great people like Diane.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 5, 2011 16:03:19 GMT -5
I'm not asking you to no longer participate in this thread, I am making the reasonable request of simply asking you to stick to the topic. There have been a couple instances where different moderators here have asked me whether action needed to be taken against you. I initiated neither contact, and declined in both instances.
So you asked my about when was the last time I went to bonnaroo, you asked who i voted for, what my favorite acts of years past..ect..sorry you changed the topic b/c you couldn't answer a very easy question:
WHY IS wisonsin going to be a better state IF the workers are part of a union? I haven't seen one solid explanation why the person who takes my picture at the DMV is going to do a better job if they are a union member??
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 5, 2011 16:07:26 GMT -5
That's a bit harder to do. Obama is too busy actually executing the duties of his office to try and break W's record for days of a presidential term spent on vacation. Also, I find it absurd to suggest that no protesting occurs outside the White House.
I find it absurd that you actually believe this!! Bottom line spin it however you like the anti war movement is nothing right now as compared to when Bush was in office. Everything from the street protests to music concerts to celebs....Bash the war effort
So I have heard from 2 protestors on this board they both have different reasons why the effort has fallen flatt
1 they were being spit on and it was dangerous work 2) Obama is simply to busy to protest again..he's hard at work and to busy to protest LMFAO
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 5, 2011 16:17:34 GMT -5
Also, a bit of wisdom I learned this year: those on the right haven't had a proper fight from those on the left for so long that they don't know how to handle it any more.
have fun with the GoP VS's dem...saddly you dont get it. Both parties are crushing america. You acting like you are fighting for the little man is a joke. You are fighting for the union leaders to keep their jobs and powerbase. Like I stated above the union member provides no additional benefit to the state that a non-union member can bring
I understand Kdogg you don't like a challenge. That's why you bring up me being banned and then in your smug elite way act how much smart you are b/c you have superior message board skills.
This isn't your thread, this isn't your board..this is an open forum for discussion on topics of the day. I have not flamed one person...I have not made fun of any groups of people. So not sure why I should be banned for interjecting my thoughts into a thread that needed to be challenged
if you want to be taken serious start acting and dressing like and adult when you are talking about the life and wellness of the state's residents. This isn't a little parade to take photo op's with wacky dress. dress nice make a good argument but acting like this is all a college term paper isn't helping the Union leaders you toil for
you gave me advise on my grammar I am giving you advise for out in the field.. take it for what you want
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 5, 2011 16:26:49 GMT -5
Yesterday at 10:38pm, Scrog wrote:Chicagooer, I know Kdogg wants to get back on topic, and rightfully so, but looking back, do you support or do you think it was the right thing for US to invade Iraq?
first off resolution 1441 gave the authorization to invade iraq..not to mention the 17 Un reoslution previous to 1441 which stated Iraq was out of compliance with the cease fire signed in 1991..legally Bush had all the authority he needed..He made his case to congress WHO APPROVED SPENDING for the war. GWB made his case to the UN....My point is Obama didn't seek approval from the UN nor did he get spending authority from congress for libya
I do believe it was the correct thing to invade iraq. First it was legal and should have been done long ago..second I believe the removal of sadaam has had a direct effect on the middle east uprising we see today. The people in the middle east have seen that a powerful dictator can be removed from office and the US just might help them out. Imagine a middle east with sadaam still in power. Anyway you slice it american troops right now are safer than if sadaam was in power. We don't need to worry about a full blown military attacking our troops.. no jets, heavy arms ect...only threat is small scale suicide attacks. So yes it was the right thing to do. Was it worth it in the end...time can only tell
KDogg.. I solute you for being the better person. Applaud your efforts for working your ass off to make a constructive difference and follow your beliefs in a peaceful, respectful manor.
We differ on the following topic. You have offered not once... but several times to assist Chicagarooer in posting in a way that the majority of I-Roo'ers are familiar. This offer has not been accepted. Instead its chastised.
He continues to fain ignorance and post without structure, and yet a post here and there defie the above and suggest he's busting your B*'s.
Differing opinions are valued!! Ball busting someone trying to make a difference in a great country that is in a bad place, Not.
Cant wait for the Karma count Kdogg. For the first time with I-Roo.. I'm pressing the mute button on Chicagoroo. Wish he/she would anti up and write with the intelligence that the posts have hinted to here and there.
Actually...since he started[/b][/u] this thread it is in fact, his thread.
Occasionally you bring up some good viewpoints, but fer the sake of all that is good and holy, please learn how to fuckin' properly quote individuals and their posts. Good luck, sir/ma'am, 'cause until you clean up your shit I'm done readin' your posts. You want to be taken seriously, go back to grade school and learn just a pinch of grammar. I'm not tryin' to come off like a dick about this, but seriously, numerous folks here now have said as much. It's not very hard to spell correctly and use decent grammar. Get it together or else you'll be viewed mostly as a troll/joke.
Kdogg, you were making my eyes weepy as you describe Diana. She sounds awesome and will be in my thoughts/prayers. You rock man!
Learning to properly quote someone, does not involve superior message board skills. Many have pointed this out, yet Chicagorooer has avoided learning this simple task that even a 5th grader could do, let alone a man in his 30s. I think that speaks volumes about his intentions. Monday to you Chicagorooer.
WHY IS wisonsin going to be a better state IF the workers are part of a union? I haven't seen one solid explanation why the person who takes my picture at the DMV is going to do a better job if they are a union member??
I answered this for you already. Weeks ago, in fact.
In todays job force why do u need a union anyway? If I do a better job them some slacker we get paid the same? Times are changing. Unions have nobody else to blame but themselves....
You can thank the labor movement and unions of this great nation for the weekend, the eight-hour work day, child labor laws, minimum wage, maternity leave, workmen's compensation, employer-based healthcare, workplace safety standards... I could go on. The point is that unions advocate for contract provisions other than salary, and that these things - when undertaken by unions - are implemented with externalities which benefit the working class as a whole. You must have missed the part in my earlier response to you, and you probably also missed it earlier in this thread... I agree with you on some of the financial concessions. I've said it before and I'll say it again if I have to. I agree with you that there's certain provisions in contracts which create inefficiencies in more important goals. I just happen to think that these goals can be accomplished without taking away collective bargaining rights. It is the unions' right to make these contracts, yes, but it takes two to tango. The people already have elected officials, those officials' appointees and such to negotiate with unions on their behalf. Those contracts don't go into effect without the approval of someone representing the people - so I take issue with your point that it is only the unions to blame.
This is exactly why I say you don't put effort into reading others' posts and taking them into account when you respond. Maybe I'm biased saying so myself, but I dare suggest that my response to your question here makes me a hell of a lot more moderate on this issue than you. You've still taken this one-note approach of treating me as if I'm simply rah-rah union and that's the end of my justification and involvement in it. You're wrong. Elsewhere in this thread, we've had this talk already. I've outlined at least a dozen different reasons to be this upset with this administration. I'm not going to bother digging it up for you, because I doubt you'd read it anyway.
Even discussing this, in this very post, is running around in circles to something you refused to hear the first time. Which is why those of us who wish to have a rational, civilized conversation are shaming you out of here.
Today began day one of our alternate location for the Get Out The Vote drive. We have temporarily relocated to a location which will accommodate the 2-3x capacity we're used to. Saturday, Sunday & Monday phone shifts are so filled up we stopped bothering to sign people up for them on Wednesday or Thursday this week. We have in excess of one hundred volunteers signed up for one of the Monday night election eve shifts. All along, we've been organizing road trips for people to carpool up to the districts to canvass door-to-door as well.
I went into the office early today, somewhere between 10-10:30 when we open up shop at 10am. Worth mentioning is that I swapped rides to borrow my mother's van today to facilitate the move. We had a lot of hands on deck: main men Nick & Zach, DGP and a couple others from the college-aged crowd and three or four of the high school interns. Everyone was decorating call space dividers when I arrived. In the early days of the office, Nick & I went to Home Depot and acquired a bunch of pink foamboard to make cubicles for heavy volume shifts.
A few things had already been moved, but job one before the next trip was to decorate a bunch of these call area dividers. The ones we have just weren't going to be enough, so we were cranking out more. It was kind of fun, that's exactly what we have kids do when we're around the office. We have a few different printouts for cutting and pasting, and a crapload of pens and markers lying around. So the entire Batcave was full of arts and crafts time.
I only got to make two or three myself. I was especially proud of this one: We probably had about a hundred of these things, plus some signs from the same material for use in the temporary location. I loaded up the van with all that and took it over. Unloaded all that, got sent back with Madelyn from the high school crew to make a second trip for tables and maybe ten packages of bottled water someone had dropped off. Sounds like she's still pretty miffed that another of the youngsters, Sean, stayed two hours late to break her new record by one call the very same day. One of his teachers is among my fellow Democracy Addicts; she said he'd take that record back before we were through and she was right. Picked up another high schooler and dropped them off with the tables at the new place before running another errand.
Once we had everything at the GOTV location set up to be ready to go in the morning, we all got put on phones - making the hundreds of volunteer reminder/confirmation calls required in advance of a big weekend like this. We had to be out of the temporary location by 4:30pm, so we moved back to the field office to continue calling. We found out we over-made the call cubicle dividers, so a bunch of them were designated to get trashed in the dumpster. I volunteered, claiming the multitasking allowed a cigarette break. I harvested some of the posters off the dividers and tossed them. I finally, after however many months, have myself the blue fist Stand With Wisconsin poster. Ain't gonna lie, we're out of there in two weeks and I pilfered a few things I'd like for posterity in the confusion today.
Madelyn's parents came in while we were having pizza (another of my errands) and making confirmation calls. Apparently her father's involved in Organizing for America (originally the Obama campaign apparatus, now "a project of the Democratic National Committee" and one of the few groups we can collaborate with - as we are for GOTV.) He must have some connections. I know their family gets to go to the White House when the Super Bowl champion Green Bay Packers finally pay a visit on August 12th.
I had to bail at 7:30 to un-swap vehicles and be to work on time, so I didn't stick around to help finish the calls. I'm working both nights this weekend, but I'm all-in for the Monday-Tuesday GOTV push. I just might wear the cheesehead for those last critical days.
I do believe it was the correct thing to invade iraq. First it was legal and should have been done long ago..
Hey, troll.
How was it legal? Experts from around the globe still argue the technicalities of this but you claim it as fact. On what grounds? Explain it to us and then write a book about it and clear this whole misunderstanding up. The world needs to know.
I didn't quote the rest of your post because it's quacking birdbrained.
Last Edit: Aug 6, 2011 17:08:30 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
I forgot to mention that Alex, one of the other college-aged crew I was talking about today, says that he could've had a part in that Scott Walker play and is kicking himself for not taking it now that Maddow picked up on it.
There is strangely no Democracy Addicts meeting in Madison the day after this pivotal election. Some of the group are making a trek to meet with the fledgling Milwaukee chapter; some of us who can't leave Madison on their timeframe (or at all) are going to be helping another of our own with moving. If we don't get done too late, we might pay Diane a visit. Her sister is out to visit her from Seattle this weekend.
MSNBC's The Ed Schultz Show will be broadcasting live from the capital square on Monday and Tuesday nights at 10pm Eastern (9pm Madison/Central). Yeah, I've used the phrase "faux-populist opportunist" to describe the guy in the past, but I'm still curious. He was down here early on in the protests. It was early enough in that I was stuck behind the counter of the convenience store job I quit as the protests heated up. It could be the most people I've seen on the square in a while as well. I'll probably stop by on Monday after our GOTV work is through to see what's up.
On Tuesday, I'll be at a theater primarily used as a concert venue for the Democratic Party returns-watching event. I've got a feeling that the aforementioned Ed Show appearance might be somehow involved. I'm sure we'll have some of the Wisconsin 14 present as we find out whether they become the majority or not.
Up in the Northwoods today, Tea Party darling Kim Simac did not appear as scheduled at a candidate forum with her opponent Sen. Jim Holperin.
Meanwhile, Sen. Alberta Darling - co-chair of the budget-writing Joint Finance Committee and one of the scalps we most want to collect in these recalls - cannot name a single job that was created in her district as a result of the policies she's pursued this year:
A few months ago, we were surprised she even got recalled... she seems to be growing increasingly vulnerable as the election nears.
Michigan's attempt to recall Gov. Rick Snyder has experienced a setback. Signatures on those petitions within a window of 90 days are considered valid. The group collecting signatures is allowed to drop their early signatures collected in exchange for extending the deadline. This leaves the group leading the recall with 300K viable signatures and through September to amass 800K. This would make Snyder's recall election in February 2012 rather than November 2011.
Arizona state senator Russell Pearce, author of that state's controversial immigration bill SB1070, is also facing a recall election this November.
The American Legislative Exchange Council, an organization fronted by the Koch brothers and other wealthy interests to advance their agenda in the various states, is having their annual meeting in New Orleans. Assembly Rep. Mark Pocan, a Democrat representing one of Madison's suburbs, attempted to attend and was denied entry. Rep. Robin Vos, Alberta Darling's co-chair on the Joint Finance Committee, was definitely an invited guest. A merry prankster decorated the place with anti-Walker stickers.
Here is the most recent "Scott Walker meets his adoring public" clip. This was on Thursday at the opening day of the Wisconsin State Fair.
Worth mentioning: Scott Walker, ostensibly the head of the Republican party at the state level, has not made a single public appearance with any of the six Republican incumbents facing recall or the three challengers to Democratic incumbents.
Russ Feingold, however, is making various appearances around the state with Democratic candidates who would replace Republican senators. Feingold has said he will wait until after Labor Day to announce a decision regarding any future run for office. Translation, as best as I can decipher his situation: Feingold is only going to run for governor if we flip the senate for him first.
Tuesday is going to go down as one of the biggest days of my life, however things may turn out.
Here's what I see in numbers that are encouraging:
Democratic challengers have definite leads against three of six Republican incumbents - one substantial, two slim - and are in a dead heat in the other three.
The number of signatures gathered to recall Sen. Dave Hansen, who already survived recall on July 19th, exceeded the number of votes received by the Republican candidate.
In the two races where Democratic senators have yet to defend their seats, the combined votes of candidates in contested Republican primaries did not exceed the number of signatures needed to recall the Democratic incumbents.
Even where the GOP tried to knock off one of the legitimate Democratic candidates - Shelly Moore - in the "fake Democrat" primary... they still lost by eight points.
Now, this is the one that makes me go from a wonky perspective: In the eight districts yet to have recall elections, the combined number of votes in the hotly contested 2008 Democratic presidential primary was between 75-80K. In the eight districts yet to have recall elections, the combined number of votes in the July 12th primaries with fake Democratic candidates was about 150K - nearly double that.
We could show Barack Obama a thing or two about "Fired up, ready to go."
from a wonky perspective: