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This morning when I woke up, I checked online and saw that Darling beat Pasch to take the fourth retain. Twas a disappointing morning.
But the more I think about things, the fact that at least two seats flipped over against big odds - pretty impressive feat for the people of Wisconsin that worked hard to see yesterday. Tens of millions of dollars of money from conservative front groups (such as the Koch's) were poured in - spent on advertisements and smears. Keeps the sheep like chicagorooer in the fold. Keeps uninformed idiots like my mother voting straight down the R line on the ballot.
If anything, this should make us fight harder. We the little people are under attack from these billionaires. These oligarchs and plutocrats. They do not care about their fellow man, they do not care about America and any of its communities. They only care about greed and power, and they sure have done a good job wrestling a lot of that away from the rest of us.
I applaud Kdogg for getting out there and trying to make a difference in this fight for the middle class. If I only did 1/500th of what he's done in 2011 - I'd be a much better person. Instead, the best I've done is make one appearance at a Bernie Sanders townhall and drunkenly scream out "Recall Walker" at a Brewers game. Shameful.
Yesterday should have been our wakeup call nationally. Unfortunately it's not. The media is making this as a confirmation of a Tea Party mandate, four of six Republicans retaining. They continue to ignore the war on the middle class, since they are supporters and PR arms of the plutocrats. Thankfully a large number of the people of Wisconsin are fighting back.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this now, so I'll just leave it at this: Forward, and recall Walker...
Post by blueslikehail on Aug 11, 2011 0:56:24 GMT -5
nice job mr. forward and everyone in wisconsin! i know it wasn't exactly what everyone wanted, but it from what i've read, it looks like it will change the dynamics quite a bit. i just spent way to long reading back through this thread. a lot of smart discussion and sadly a lot of misinformation. the middle class is getting pinched and people are getting anxious and looking for answers. those of us that know pro-worker, progressive, keynesian policies are solutions that will work need to keep at it. progress happens slowly and change doesn't come overnight. liberals/progressives/socialist/communists/whatever need better messaging from ourselves and our leaders. public opinion polls show that the public greatly prefers our policies in a head to head matchup. funny, i've never met a liberal that doesn't want the smallest, most effective government possible. some things are just too important to be left up to the profit motives of the free market. a few favorite examples of mine: roads, food inspection, product safety, water systems, military/police, prisons, and parks. the corporate right has made their slogans easy to understand. we need to find a way to do that. imho, we have to focus like a laser beam on campaign finance reform. i believe it is an issue that can be simply stated and understood and supported by many folks across the political spectrum. change that, and it would have major consequences in the direction of this country. but as former intern for my (former ) favorite senator, i know mr. forward understands that!
I first want to say that I have yet to see anything to suggest Waukesha county clerk Kathy Nickolaus engaged in any shenanigans during this election. It can be hard to tell. Speaking as a frequent election watcher, she seems to operate by different practices than other clerks, and let's just say that I don't necessarily think they are best practices. After the Kloppenburg election in April and subsequent recount, I'd say any election in which she's involved deserves an asterisk. Of course, this many hours after polls closed in April, she hadn't magically found those 14K votes in the supreme court race either...
There were tabulation errors in the district 2 race between Sen. Robert Cowles & challenger Nancy Nusbaum. Cowles no longer won with 60% of the vote, but 56%. His loss wasn't surprising; he's pushing thirty years of holding this seat. What did surprise us was how quick the media called this race last night. By the time I got to the Majestic to watch results, two races had already been called and this was one of them. Turns out the correction was needed for a database error marking Democrat Nusbaum down for zero votes in several precincts. Link to full article.
The Cowles/Nusbaum correction makes for an interesting commonality between all six races yesterday. In all six races in these Republican districts, the Democratic state senate candidate outperformed Tom Barrett, Milwaukee mayor and 2010 Democratic gubernatorial candidate.
Robin Vos, prominent Assembly Republican, announced today that he is drafting a constitutional amendment proposal which would alter the state's recall process. Curious timing.
More than $35 million has been spent on these nine recall races thus far. In 2010, when roughly half the state senate was up for election, the total spent on these races was $3.5 million.
Scott Walker's response was basically saying it means the voters of Wisconsin want to see more bipartisanship. Worth noting here is that his party controls all branches of government in this state, so I don't think this sentiment can be construed as approval for Wisconsin Republicans' direction.
Russ Feingold has said he will make a decision about any potential 2012 run for political office (be it Wisconsin governor or U.S. Senator) sometime after Labor Day. I know he has been busy in the meantime. He's been writing a book, which is expected to be completed around then, and has a daughter expecting a baby in early September.
Next up: Democratic senators defend their seats on Tuesday, August 16th in the final two elections of Recallapalooza 2011. Sen. Jim Holperin faces Tea Party activist Kim Simac up in the North Woods. Sen. Robert Wirch faces attorney Jonathan Steitz in the Racine/Kenosha area in the southeast corner of the state.
I assume I'll be helping close down our office the day after those elections. I have no idea what I'll do with myself once I find myself with free time on August 18th.
Recall Chicagorooer! When his negative karma exceeds his post count, we'll throw the bum out. Smite early, smite often.
This just seems spitefull MR forward. I expected much more from you. You have been a good role model for kids that otherwise wouldn't care about the direction of their state. In the end you have a lot to learn about what people really want
The democrats that fled the state are in hot water next week. I highly doubt the turnout will be anything close to yesterdays
stay classy.
Um yeah, its not that hard, there a little button in the upper right of every single post that says "quote"
It looks like this:
All you have to do is click on it and it will automatically take you to the respond interface with the quoted post already in there and coded for you.
It REALLY isnt that hard and your refusal to use it, IMO is intentional and being done only to continue to stir the pot. I am going to go ahead and put it out there, if you dont start using the board correctly, I am going to ban you for rules violations, screw your ridiculous political positions and trolling, the refusal to use the quote function is where your really getting under my skin.
Just for the record....are you saying you are Pro-Child Labor? Pro-Segregation, Pro-Wage, Age, Sex, Religious Discriminitation????
I am a democrat. A republican freed the slaves. Does this make me pro-slavery? No. Things change
Wow emoney. Congrats on a simplification that would make Rush Limbaugh proud.
Child labor may have gone by the wayside but I think discrimination is rampant in too many forms to list. As some people have stated and I personally agree with, unions have been their own worst enemy. Does this mean they should be abolished? Not from my perspective. They still do good things for workers who would be treated like dirt by greedy corportations.
My statement was no sillier than insinuating that anyone against unions in their current form is also against every positive thing that unions have ever accomplished
note - I am not neccesarily taking sides, just pointing out a silly argument. I'd do the same to chicagorooers arguments, but everyone else seems to have that covered
Um yeah, its not that hard, there a little button in the upper right of every single post that says "quote"
It looks like this:
All you have to do is click on it and it will automatically take you to the respond interface with the quoted post already in there and coded for you.
It REALLY isnt that hard and your refusal to use it, IMO is intentional and being done only to continue to stir the pot. I am going to go ahead and put it out there, if you dont start using the board correctly, I am going to ban you for rules violations, screw your ridiculous political positions and trolling, the refusal to use the quote function is where your really getting under my skin.
Use it or be gone!!!
We know Chicagorooer knows how to use the Quote feature. There have been a few times I've gone over his last 100 posts, going back into 2007. It is apparent from reading those that Chicagorooer did, in fact, at one point use the quote feature. I think that kind of backs up your assertion that this is a refusal rather than ignorance. Chicagorooer knows how to quote posts, he just doesn't want to.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 11, 2011 14:31:16 GMT -5
the people of Wisconsin don't find my arguments to be silly. They have proved these 2 times over now. Most of the nation didn't find my arguments silly either as many long standing dems and republicans no longer call congress home
Times are changing and yes I do agree with Bama. In the past unions did stand up to corporations and got a lot of workers’ rights passed.However that has been my point. Unions are no longer needed. Most if not all workers rights are not federal law. In addition you have many state laws that also give workers rights.
Now all unions do is stand up for their members and sue if they try to fire a member for things like drug abuse, late to work ect. The UAW union members many got busted drinking and smoking on lunch. Sure the union was there to make sure the worker wasn't fired!!. The workers should have been terminated on the spot
Unions care about 1 THING. Collecting union dues. The states can no longer afford these inflated pensions and healthcare benefits. Union or no union there isn't any money. This is why restructuring is needed.
Also I think it's horrible that in order for me to teach in illinois I have to join a union? I have to accept that I get paid the same wage as the next guy based on when I started NOT how good of a job I am doing. The days of zero accountability are gone
I grew up in a union house. I seen the good and bad of the unions. However my father and many like me all concluded the unions have been their own worst enemy
Recall Chicagorooer! When his negative karma exceeds his post count, we'll throw the bum out. Smite early, smite often.
This just seems spitefull MR forward. I expected much more from you. You have been a good role model for kids that otherwise wouldn't care about the direction of their state. In the end you have a lot to learn about what people really want
The democrats that fled the state are in hot water next week. I highly doubt the turnout will be anything close to yesterdays
stay classy.
Um yeah, its not that hard, there a little button in the upper right of every single post that says "quote"
It looks like this:
All you have to do is click on it and it will automatically take you to the respond interface with the quoted post already in there and coded for you.
It REALLY isnt that hard and your refusal to use it, IMO is intentional and being done only to continue to stir the pot. I am going to go ahead and put it out there, if you dont start using the board correctly, I am going to ban you for rules violations, screw your ridiculous political positions and trolling, the refusal to use the quote function is where your really getting under my skin.
Use it or be gone!!!
my political positions are ridiculous??? I am trolling?? I bet if I was all ra ra ra to Mr forwards cause I wouldn't be considered a troll?? I would be a friend who supports the thread. I find it amazing that a moderator would step out and call my political views ridiculous. I find them to be right on par with what most americans want. Les taxes, less gov't.
I never could understand inforoo political's. Scream and cry when somebody gets busted by the gov't for drugs. Telling the gov't to mind their own business and let me do what I want with my body. I agree for sure....Yet when it comes to taxes, healthcare, entitlement programs ect...you want more gov't involvement??
never consider a person would think less govt and lower taxes is silly
the people of Wisconsin don't find my arguments to be silly. They have proved these 2 times over now. Most of the nation didn't find my arguments silly either as many long standing dems and republicans no longer call congress home
Really? I wasn't aware that voters were asked "How well do you think chicagorooer represented the anti-union stance on the popular web forum Inforoo (tm)?"
Um yeah, its not that hard, there a little button in the upper right of every single post that says "quote"
It looks like this:
All you have to do is click on it and it will automatically take you to the respond interface with the quoted post already in there and coded for you.
It REALLY isnt that hard and your refusal to use it, IMO is intentional and being done only to continue to stir the pot. I am going to go ahead and put it out there, if you dont start using the board correctly, I am going to ban you for rules violations, screw your ridiculous political positions and trolling, the refusal to use the quote function is where your really getting under my skin.
Use it or be gone!!!
my political positions are ridiculous??? I am trolling?? I bet if I was all ra ra ra to Mr forwards cause I wouldn't be considered a troll?? I would be a friend who supports the thread. I find it amazing that a moderator would step out and call my political views ridiculous. I find them to be right on par with what most americans want. Les taxes, less gov't.
I never could understand inforoo political's. Scream and cry when somebody gets busted by the gov't for NO NO WORD!!!. Telling the gov't to mind their own business and let me do what I want with my body. I agree for sure....Yet when it comes to taxes, healthcare, entitlement programs ect...you want more gov't involvement??
never consider a person would think less govt and lower taxes is silly
First, i am a liberal. I won't deny that. But if you would read what I said you would see that I am telling you flat out that your political positions and your minor thinly veiled trolling are not the reason I'm gonna suspend you, its your refusal to use the board functions correctly.
I see you have remedied that.
We discussed banning you, you're still here. You read druids pm, it had nothing to do with politics.
Now, carry on with the argument.
Last Edit: Aug 11, 2011 16:33:12 GMT -5 by Deleted - Back to Top
never consider a person would think less govt and lower taxes is silly
Sorry. Sarah Palin says this sh!t a lot and I'm afraid you've described my take on her exactly. And it's not the less govt and lower taxes part that I object to. It's the 99% of the other sh!t that she spews.
Union decline isn't solely done with the unions as their enemy. There are others. The proportion of unionized employees in this country today is about a quarter of what it was when Ronald Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers. It wasn't just the unions' undoing. The wealthy elites in this country have been pushing an agenda proactively for decades, much more so since Ronald Reagan united these laissez-faire economists in a coalition with the religious right and defense hawks. It ushered in Reaganomics, which funneled the wealth upward without trickling down the promised benefits to a greater number of people. I feel that wealth in this country under this system grows in a manner similar to cancer cells in a body. In addition to this, the corporate interests have steered our policies away from investing in our nation toward investing in their profits. This happened through "free trade" deals like NAFTA which outsourced/hemorrhaged our jobs (many of them union) out of our nation, and participation in supranational non-governmental organizations such as the WTO which advocate for such policies. Our national debt when Reagan was sworn in was one trillion dollars. It is fourteen trillion now, and growing by the day. The presidency, and the president is the one who proposes the budget, has been controlled by Republicans for twenty of my thirty years of existence. During that time, our debt has grown more greatly under Republican rule than under Democratic rule. There is a problem, yes, but I feel it is irresponsible to entrust those who contributed a greater share of the problem with finding the solution.
Bringing this back to the home front...
One of my best professors at that great state University of Wisconsin in Madison was Ed Friedman, who I had for a course called Politics And World Economy and regretfully nothing else. He exerted greater influence on my existing political beliefs than most teachers through whose classroom I passed; his influence made me nearly half as liberal and twice as libertarian as I was going into his class. He stressed one point more than all others in his course, in multiple contexts throughout the semester, always highlighting it as the way forward for nations in economic transition and/or crisis. I feel it more simply and accurately defines what our economy needs more than just about anything I've ever heard. That phrase?
Growth with equity.
I feel that inequitable growth is the root problem. I feel the dominant economic paradigm in my lifetime has worked to undermine growth with equity. It is this inequitable growth which leads me to compare wealth generation under Reaganomics with a cancer upon the body economic. Wealth inequality in our country is nearing levels not seen since the onset of the Great Depression. I don't think this is coincidence. The only time during my thirty years when wealth inequality in America actually shrank was during the Clinton presidency. He did this by passing budgets with equal parts spending cuts and revenue generation. Every tax bracket saw their incomes rise under this approach, and our nation went into surplus.
Today, our GOP staunchly advocates no tax increases whatsoever. I should hope some readers are aware of Grover Norquist, lobbyist and head of the advocacy group Americans For Tax Reform - another of these groups promoted/funded by the wealthy interests undermining our nation. He is best known for his quote "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub." Norquist has a pledge that he asks all Republican representatives to sign, stating that they will oppose tax increases of any sort. Signed on to this pledge are 41 Republican U.S. Senators and a supermajority of House Republicans. During our recent debt ceiling debate, President Obama and Sen. Reid had an offer on the table - "the grand bargain," they were calling it. Between spending cuts and revenue generation, the grand bargain totaled four trillion dollars. With revenue generation, the grand bargain was politically unfeasible to House Republicans. It was scrapped in favor for the ultimate deal, cutting one trillion in spending. I can't necessarily trust Standard & Poor's, considering their AAA ratings of collateralized debt obligations which were toxic to the economy, but they did cite our Congress' stubbornness on revenue generation in recently downgrading the United States' credit rating from AAA to AA+. I feel this was in part due to the inequitable political power exerted by those with inequitable economic power.
It is those who have amassed such power over the past three decades that are pushing this agenda. They fund both parties to an extent, but definitely favor one party more than the other. They buy state candidates in advance of their election, and utilize organizations like ALEC to draft and disseminate legislation furthering their aims, and have these policies implemented on a national level. Their purchased politicians include Wisconsin governor Scott Walker and key members of the state legislature, who are merely implementing the agenda of their out-of-state puppetmasters.
The corporate puppets in office started earning their campaign cash in February, when they announced this bill. We know how things have proceeded since then. Protests started and grew, yes... but to suggest that unions were the engine behind it is wrong. Those protests caught the Democratic Party and labor unions off-guard, and they weren't as quick to act as they should have been. Two of the biggest unions, AFL-CIO and SEIU, refused to even talk to one another at the height of these protests. I find it ludicrous to suggest that the Democrats or the unions were behind the protests. These protests overwhelmed them, too.
I wasn't out there because I believed in the union.
The first time I made my own sign for a protest was in 2002. It, too, had a concise three-word explanation for my position. It read "People Over Profits." I think that phrase captures the essence of the justification for most political actions I have ever taken.
If the problem is inequity, the solution is attacking the source of that inequity. That would be the man behind the curtain. It just so happens that the man behind the curtain is also the man behind Scott Walker and too many others.
Well, that is where you and I differ, then. I think unions do provide a social net by protecting laborers' rights and making sure they don't get quacked over by the fatcats at the top who generally care about very little beyond the size of their bank accounts, and who will ship their jobs off to China or Mexico or wherever in a New York minute if they think it will increase their bottom line. None of the other programs you mentioned provide that type of job security.
Bingo you get it now. Unions are the reason the fat cats ARE shipping jobs overseas. They can't afford to pay low skilled workers these cadillac pensions ect. A campany at anytime can ship jobs overseas. Companies DONT' have to work with unions if they chose not to. Unions use to provide quality labor..they still do provide a quality person as they are tested for NO NO WORD!!! well trained however they cost to much.
In the end the union worker is going to lose out. If the union wont bend they Leno the jobs overseas. Like I said 100 times. The union worker loses out either way. Its the union leaders that care about being relevant
Chicagorooer, this is why your argument against unions is faulty. It all comes down to the fact that you have a cynical viewpoint about workers and they you think they will lose and should forfeit. I love how you think that if union leaderrs were removed it would benefit the state, the worker, and the companies that fuel our economy. That is really NIEVE because it would only benefit the companies. Sure it starts with union leaders, then companies will attack collective bargaining (which Walker tried to do), then it's only a matter of time before the really greedy powerful ones start using their campaign finances to roll back labor laws. Do you really want American workers to be treated like the Chinese?HELL NO, I'm sure your father would agree.
In the past 30 years, companies in a deregulated market have shown no compromise to socialize ANY profit. You think that money saved from those pensions will go back to the state? Give me a break. By the way those cadillac(a hyperbole)pensions we can't afford. How come Germany are a major industrialized nation that have a high income labor class (factory workers, engineers etc.) yet they are 90% unionized? Add to the fact, they are not in debt and are currently being asked by the European Union to help fix the European Debt Crisis.
It comes down to the fact you are putting too much blame on the union leaders. Are there a portion of them who are glory-mongers who put their interests before the union workers? Sure. But I hate how you turn a blind eye to corporations who wish to make this country a corporate-run state thinking it's going to benefit the country. I don't know if you are familiar with Hobbes Leviathan. But to paraphrase, he believes the people are an angry mob. They are "brutish", so it's the governments role to maintain order. What corporations have been doing for the past 30 years under all administrations, is let the government maintain the order. They then pay the government(campaign finance) to maintain a status quo they see fit, makes you wonder why it took so long for a minimum wage increase and how the average wage hasn't kept up with inflation. So when it all goes to shit, it becomes "brutish", they then pack their money up and leave. And with the internet and globalized economy, they can while we are left fucked wondering what is gonna happen to our pensions, our stock options, our benefits that these companies said they would provide because of our sacrifice to work some of the longest hours in the world.
That is why government and the people need to have a watchful eye against industry. Jefferson and the Democrat Republicans fought the same fight against Federalists. Our unions and eventually our government had to fight against industry during the Gilded Age. Now it's our turn. Wow this was a long post.
Chicagorooer's presentation of his arguments have been sloppy. I agree. But some members on this board to deride anything he says because of that, while offering no counterpoint to his claims. Not even one is stupid. It's an awful defense mechanism. Plus the whole tally of monday points, thing. Really people? Doesn't it seem a little childish.
Mr. Forward (aka K-Dogg) I respect your dedication to the political process. In fact, i wish i could follow your lead more considering i live in the suburbs of our nation's capital. If more people seeked your knowledge in politics, i think this country would be better informed and more protected. That is why it's disappointing you encouraged people to smite a guy who doesn't agree with you in a forum of free discussion. Plus the whole discredit questions to question his commitment to Bonnaroo (why would he be registered to Inforoo ???) seemed beneath you. Like a cheap smear campaign you see politicians use, from what I gathered reading this thread and the other political thread is something you would disapprove of.
There is no malice in any of what I'm saying. Just my personal opinion on all this. Bonnaroooooo
I never could understand inforoo political's. Scream and cry when somebody gets busted by the gov't for NO NO WORD!!!. Telling the gov't to mind their own business and let me do what I want with my body. I agree for sure....Yet when it comes to taxes, healthcare, entitlement programs ect...you want more gov't involvement??
never consider a person would think less govt and lower taxes is silly
medicare and the veterans administration are both run by our government and cost less, provide more access to services, and have higher beneficiary satisfaction rates than private insurance. so yeah, i want more government involvement in that.
this boilerplate 'get the government off my back' is ridiculous. of course i don't like paying taxes and a large wasteful government. no one i know does. but in return for paying taxes i get to be an american. i leave my house and feel secure. my monetary investments are insured and monitored for bad behavior to provide me with a fair opportunity. clean water comes out of my tap. the food, medicine, and products i buy in a store will probably be very safe. i got a free education and a rate on my student loans from the government that were lower than the private market would have given me. the contractors who built the house i live in were licensed and it was inspected to make sure that it would not fall apart or catch on fire. i can call the police or fire for no charge if there is a problem. if there is injustice, i can take it up in a court of law. in short, thanks government.
Chicagorooer's presentation of his arguments have been sloppy. I agree. But some members on this board to deride anything he says because of that, while offering no counterpoint to his claims. Not even one is stupid. It's an awful defense mechanism. Plus the whole tally of monday points, thing. Really people? Doesn't it seem a little childish.
I don't know how much of the thread you've read, but I think I've done my fair share in responding to Chicagorooer's posts. I feel I have given my counterpoints to his points. When it got to the point that he was repeating his same points, without having acknowledged nor countered my subsequent counterpoints, was when it ceased to be a productive discussion which had the potential to enhance understanding.
I'm not expecting everyone to participate in this discussion at the wonk level. But I don't think it's unfair nor unreasonable to expect people to participate at a high school level, though. That's at least roughly the minimum age and education level at which citizens become voters, is it not? You did notice that I was willing to overlook the errors until he misspelled Wisconsin? How much credibility would you lend to an out-of-stater's view on Virginia issues if they were unable to spell Virginia? That's not academic elitism, that's elementary school geography.
When it gets to the point that there are posts in this thread specifically dedicated to complaints about how one of the participants presents their arguments in relation to the standard format, how am I supposed to react?
Mr. Forward (aka K-Dogg) I respect your dedication to the political process. In fact, i wish i could follow your lead more considering i live in the suburbs of our nation's capital. If more people seeked your knowledge in politics, i think this country would be better informed and more protected.
That is why it's disappointing you encouraged people to smite a guy who doesn't agree with you in a forum of free discussion.
I'm pretty sure I've seen a mod or two, from time to time, state that this place is not a democracy. Observe as I throw out George Carlin's seven words with a few additions. Leno Piss quack Ann Coulter peinerpuffer motherquacker ta-tas shlong Vagina NO NO WORD!!! biznatch Ass smurf lady-flower
As for your comment calling this being a forum for "a free discussion," I agree. Where we may not stand eye-to-eye on is whether I've actually got what you could call what's become of this thread a "discussion" as far as Chicagorooer is concerned. That involves processing what someone else has said and responding. I don't feel I was getting that from him. The response to a counterpoint is not simply repeating your initial point. That is not discussion, and this is why I feel he has lowered the quality of discourse in this thread. He's been welcome to address my counterpoints the entire time. He just hasn't. Surely you see where I'm coming from on this?
The point of what I'm doing in that sig is that he doesn't listen to me, so I had to enlist others to assist. I, personally, have contributed maybe 20-25 of the smites of that campaign myself. So 200+ more came from others. The message I was trying to get across is that he should participate at a commonly-accepted standard of expressing oneself on a forum such as this. I offered to assist, and I never did get a response. Roofan provided it for him earlier. Let's see if things change.
It's not just me, either. It was brought up with me during discussions with a couple of the other mods, and not even Roofan, before I undertook any of this.
Plus the whole discredit questions to question his commitment to Bonnaroo (why would he be registered to Inforoo ???) seemed beneath you. Like a cheap smear campaign you see politicians use, from what I gathered reading this thread and the other political thread is something you would disapprove of.
Chicagorooer hadn't posted here in four years prior to this thread. He stopped his initial round of posting here about six months before I registered. I didn't really know about the guy, so I looked into his past 50 posts (dating back to 2007) and didn't see a single one about Bonnaroo.
You know why else I asked Chicagorooer? We're both here on Inforoo, that's our theoretical common ground, and I'm not going to apologize for asking about common ground. His extended absence and post history made my inquiring mind want to know more.
I'll admit my posts have leaned heavily towards this thread, too. That's because I've been busy out there making recalls happen, so my time has been spread rather thin the past three months. My schedule usually only allows me to sweep through with a post or two while I'm here.
Anyway, it seems that the mods have spoken to him. He won't listen to me, but he'll listen to other people. Others have gotten that point across where I couldn't, and I thank them for that. Call it community organizing
With that, I'm off to edit my sig. 420's a good place to be at.
Here I am wanting to talk about our big couple of days with GOTV and got sadly sidetracked.
The office I work in is a Madison field office of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin. Our role is to utilize local volunteers in supporting Democratic candidates in the recall elections around the state. We make the majority of the calls going out on behalf of DPW in the state.
We have an office about a half-mile from the capitol. We wound up at Laborers Local #464 about three miles away to accommodate the surge of volunteers. We had over one hundred volunteers making phone calls for one shift on Monday. Overall, over those four days, our office made nearly 100K phone calls (or actually hit it, we haven't yet processed all the data since I last checked) into recall districts for the GOTV effort.
I got the short end of the scheduling stick. I was in the office a week ago Monday & Tuesday, but my discussion with Nick was pretty much limited to my trip to La Crosse to deliver Shilling campaign/election materials. Nick wasn't around when I was Wednesday, and by the time we crossed paths Friday he just put me down wherever other people hadn't already been scheduled.
I worked Saturday/Sunday, so I only got to take part in the last two days of GOTV. I was one of the Greeters on Monday. Primary duties involved directing volunteers to our temporary location off a main thoroughfare, guiding into the right parking lot and leading them into the sign-in table. Since the primary Greeter duties clustered around shift changes, we made phone calls and checked on the outdoor volunteers in between. It was nice out, and on both nights we had upwards of two dozen volunteers making their calls from outside. We had so many volunteers come in during GOTV we had 145 pizzas delivered to us those four days.
Other roles included Sign-In Desk, volunteer Trainers - both primary and reserves when they were needed off of phone banking, the List Masters, the Conductor (to direct volunteer traffic after sign-in,) the Comfort Captains (handing out drinks/refreshments between calls,) Debriefers who gathered up phones/packets at the end of shifts, and a Redirect person to keep watch over the usual office space... in addition to the two staffers, Nick & Zach. There was a national-level Organizing For America person there who told us all it was the best-run phone banking operation she had ever seen at the end of Tuesday night.
I had two Greeter and a flex shift on Monday, and a Greeter, flex & Comfort Captain shift on Tuesday. I also got to do some of the social media volunteer recruitment, hitting up Twitter/Facebook/Craigslist/local sites looking for volunteers, while I was making these calls. I had other random tasks like driving people to the main DPW HQ as well. At the end of it all, I had made arrangements to borrow Mom's van to help haul our operation back to the regular office before we went to the official victory party.
At about 3pm Tuesday, we pivoted hard toward the Hopper-King race. We think we made enough GOTV calls those last five hours polls were open that we arguably helped her win her state senate race.
How all that went down is a subject for another time. I swapped shifts, Tuesday for tonight, which enabled me to have my schedule clear for the big day. I have to go fulfill my half of the bargain now.
Just for the record....are you saying you are Pro-Child Labor? Pro-Segregation, Pro-Wage, Age, Sex, Religious Discriminitation????
I am a democrat. A republican freed the slaves. Does this make me pro-slavery? No. Things change
If you will notice, I asked for an on-the-record response and peripherally an acknowledgement that unions are not a total waste of time money and effort and are hood-winking us all. They have actually contributed to some very important, necessary and long overdue improvements for workers that might never have happened without them.
And as for Lincoln freeing the slaves....don't know how your history textbooks read, but from what I learned in middle school, high school, and college....freeing the slaves was a SOCIAL agenda that was totally a secondary (and more passionate rallying point) than the true reason for the Civil War which....as in almost every war...was power and money. The Southern mills wanted the Northern Factories to pay them as much as the Europeans were for cotton...and Northern Senators decided that they would block this and impose an export tax on Cotton that would make it MORE expensive to export than to take the lesser prices the northern factories wanted to pay. THAT is the real root of the Civil War. The rest is just emotional pandering. Thus said.....even having an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy even though my family NEVER owned any slaves (only rich people owned slaves) I find slavery dispicable and am not at all sorry that the Civil War's ending was as it was except for all the unnescessary loss of life and the complete looting of the South afterwards. I am actually an independent (have voted both Democrat AND Republican depending on the person I thought would do the best job). But anyone who thinks that the Civil War was a war of virtue over right and wrong over slavery....obviously there are a few things missing in your educational endeavors.
History books tend to ignore a lot of the struggles about power and money, or glorify some other secondary detail and make it the primary.
I wasn't aware of the mills/cotton part of the story until just reading it now. But, it doesn't surprise me. But where does all the states rights stuff come into play, or was that secondary also?
Others have gotten that point across where I couldn't, and I thank them for that. Call it community organizing
With that, I'm off to edit my sig. 420's a good place to be at.
Mr.Forward, I'd like to respond to your counterpoints but I don't have the brain energy right now to do it. Good to see you edited the sig. Cuz 420 is a good place to be at If i ever see you at the Brunch, I'm gonna light one up with you.
And as for Lincoln freeing the slaves....don't know how your history textbooks read, but from what I learned in middle school, high school, and college....freeing the slaves was a SOCIAL agenda that was totally a secondary (and more passionate rallying point) than the true reason for the Civil War which....as in almost every war...was power and money. The Southern mills wanted the Northern Factories to pay them as much as the Europeans were for cotton...and Northern Senators decided that they would block this and impose an export tax on Cotton that would make it MORE expensive to export than to take the lesser prices the northern factories wanted to pay. THAT is the real root of the Civil War. The rest is just emotional pandering. Thus said.....even having an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy even though my family NEVER owned any slaves (only rich people owned slaves) I find slavery dispicable and am not at all sorry that the Civil War's ending was as it was except for all the unnescessary loss of life and the complete looting of the South afterwards. I am actually an independent (have voted both Democrat AND Republican depending on the person I thought would do the best job). But anyone who thinks that the Civil War was a war of virtue over right and wrong over slavery....obviously there are a few things missing in your educational endeavors.
I saw the greatest sticker tonight. I was on a delivery and it was parked in the driveway of the house I was going to. In the back window was a sticker of a rebel flag in the shape of Wisconsin. I'm kicking myself for not having taken a picture, but my phone was in the car when I saw it.
As a northerner, I'm curious to ask everyone how prevalent some of these perceptions outlined in the quote above are down there. Bama's post has gears turning in my head...
I am a democrat. A republican freed the slaves. Does this make me pro-slavery? No. Things change
If you will notice, I asked for an on-the-record response and peripherally an acknowledgement that unions are not a total waste of time money and effort and are hood-winking us all. They have actually contributed to some very important, necessary and long overdue improvements for workers that might never have happened without them.
And as for Lincoln freeing the slaves....don't know how your history textbooks read, but from what I learned in middle school, high school, and college....freeing the slaves was a SOCIAL agenda that was totally a secondary (and more passionate rallying point) than the true reason for the Civil War which....as in almost every war...was power and money. The Southern mills wanted the Northern Factories to pay them as much as the Europeans were for cotton...and Northern Senators decided that they would block this and impose an export tax on Cotton that would make it MORE expensive to export than to take the lesser prices the northern factories wanted to pay. THAT is the real root of the Civil War. The rest is just emotional pandering. Thus said.....even having an ancestor who fought for the Confederacy even though my family NEVER owned any slaves (only rich people owned slaves) I find slavery dispicable and am not at all sorry that the Civil War's ending was as it was except for all the unnescessary loss of life and the complete looting of the South afterwards. I am actually an independent (have voted both Democrat AND Republican depending on the person I thought would do the best job). But anyone who thinks that the Civil War was a war of virtue over right and wrong over slavery....obviously there are a few things missing in your educational endeavors.
This is all very nice, but you kinda missed the point.
Post by chicagorooer on Aug 12, 2011 16:15:12 GMT -5
One thing I have found really sad about this thread is how people are so quick to try and jump down each other's throats about thier educational levels. Also many attempts to discredit people based on what they assume is a person't intellect.
Consider the following. This is a bonnaroo message board. Most people who don't have a clue would conclude that most on this board are drugged out hippies who are dirty and can't hold a job. They would dismiss anything said on this board. I mean these people would laugh at inforoo and state what do hippies and NO NO WORD!!! users know about politics and finance?
making judgements about people's educational levels is foolish. First you really have no idea what thier level is from a message board. Also you wouldn't want to be labeled a hippie NO NO WORD!!! user just simply b/c you enjoy bonnaroo.
We need to get passed the labeling or grouping of people to help us feel better about our arguments. This is an informal setting. It't a message board not cspan.
I think most on this board that would be labeled by outsiders a fool b/c you are a bonnaroo hippie would laugh and say you have no clue. You are flat our wrong and ignorant. I would agree
The same holds true in this discussion. Please refrain from trying to pass judgement on what you believe is somebodies educational level.
Not every person's post is perfect. ALL posts have some mistakes. Whether it's grammar, content ect. No post or idea is different
What should be learned is open honest discussions are needed. If you point a finger ...five more are pointing back at you.