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Of course. I will make sure I CC any responses I get from DanceSafe to the Mods and Adam so you guys can review it and make sure I'm following the proper guidlines.
I'll make sure that I'm dotting and crossing everything correctly so that this idea may have a positive outcome. I have a whole year so lets hope things can happen the rigth way.
Post by bamadancer on Jun 15, 2011 10:54:23 GMT -5
I agree with 100% of what was said here. Prevention and harm reduction is key, and it IS something that needs to be discussed in the community as a whole. People die/are seriously sick when they don't know what they're doing to themselves - and I mean this with regards to substances as well as lack of hydration/heat stress/etc.
I'd be willing to help out in any way I can - I don't think Bonnaroo is a go for me anymore, but I'd be willing to spread this message far & wide.
(Also, WMC/Ultra should DEFINITELY have a DanceSafe group...I've seen more people carted off in ambulances there than any other festival/event I've *ever* been to)
Post by icymountain on Jun 15, 2011 12:01:11 GMT -5
I'm in. Nutrition, hydration, moderating physical exertion, moderating exposure and proper chemical balance are all necessary to survive 95 degree temps with 95 percent humidity. I'm working on a guide. I have asked for help.
I'm not going to lie - mods, I know that dr*g talk is verboten around here (to the point where the word is censored), but allowing some of it so that people can at least discuss safe use, tips and the like might be a good idea. Clearly if someone is just bragging about how much they can take, or is trying to get a hookup, or is attempting to sell, shut it down ASAP, but it's pretty common knowledge that a) a lot of people at Bonnaroo try something, b) a lot of people try something for the first time, and c) this board attracts a ton of new users every year. Being able to have an open dialog about the pros and cons of such activity would be beneficial to all parties, really.
This. It shouldn't encourage being all "ya brah I took some heady ass doses at roo this year and just tripped face all day." But there should at least be some way for people to ask questions about certain drugs, i.e safe dosages, how to stay safe under the influence in the 95+ degree heat, etc. Everyone pretends that nobody does this stuff at Bonnaroo but perhaps we should try to educate instead of ignore.
I'm not going to lie - mods, I know that dr*g talk is verboten around here (to the point where the word is censored), but allowing some of it so that people can at least discuss safe use, tips and the like might be a good idea. Clearly if someone is just bragging about how much they can take, or is trying to get a hookup, or is attempting to sell, shut it down ASAP, but it's pretty common knowledge that a) a lot of people at Bonnaroo try something, b) a lot of people try something for the first time, and c) this board attracts a ton of new users every year. Being able to have an open dialog about the pros and cons of such activity would be beneficial to all parties, really.
I agree that there needs to be more information available, so people can make better informed decisions and be educated on proper doses and how to take care of yourself for the before during and after. My problem with putting it on the board, is what if NON druq users go and check out those threads, and hastily make a decision to try something for the first time.
Personally, I would feel very guilty if I were talking about coke and proper use on a forum, then someone on that thread get's intrigued and tries it... if anything were to happen to them I would feel partially responsible.
A good resource outside this board for safety, doses, chemical function, trip reports, and wayyy more is www.erowid.org
I haven't looked at that site in about 6 years but I remember not liking it for the exact reasons you said. It always seemed to me that the erowid community was more about bragging rights than information and harm prevention. But I see now that DanceSafe does link erowid on their site so maybe it has changed.
Post by myscatterheart on Jun 15, 2011 12:24:30 GMT -5
We have such a large community of open minded, kind, well-versed people. I hope we can utilize all our assets to aid in all of this ... somehow. Something's gotta change.
I agree that there needs to be more information available, so people can make better informed decisions and be educated on proper doses and how to take care of yourself for the before during and after. My problem with putting it on the board, is what if NON druq users go and check out those threads, and hastily make a decision to try something for the first time.
Well said, this is exactly how I feel about this. I'm all for the idea of "if someone is going to do something anyway, I want them to do it as safely as possible." But when you put that information out there, it's being seen by a lot of people who WEREN'T going to do it anyway. And I don't want those people to change their minds because someone has explained to them exactly how to go about doing it, especially if they end up feeling overly confident about it.
While open discussion and information might help the people who were already going to do something, I don't see any way we can have that kind of open discussion without inadvertently encouraging the people who WEREN'T already going to.
True. And as with ANY board that is associated with something like Bonnaroo (even "unofficially") there is ALWAYS someone watching/lurking/monitoring that will misconstrue anything that is said about such things here and turn it against the community. Which is NOT what we want. I think if there are advocacy groups already out there we should just support and point people towards them. I don't think getting Inforoo shut down would be good for anyone.
It's a slippery slope. The rather tight policy was put into place after some rather rough situations where online discussion, led to serious issues for those in said discussion. Plus, lots of folks posting from work and keeping some of the key words from overuse is something we're mindful of.
That said, everything is at least up for consideration. Another sub-sub-sub forum or something. I'm sure we'll figure it out. There are just SOOO many other resources out there for such matters. Resources that aren't as extremely "mixed use," as this board is.
It's a slippery slope. The rather tight policy was put into place after some rather rough situations where online discussion, led to serious issues for those in said discussion. Plus, lots of folks posting from work and keeping some of the key words from overuse is something we're mindful of.
That said, everything is at least up for consideration. Another sub-sub-sub forum or something. I'm sure we'll figure it out. There are just SOOO many other resources out there for such matters. Resources that aren't as extremely "mixed use," as this board is.
This. Even "the experts" know that each situation is different. People need to realize that just because "information" is on a board it doesn't mean it's fact. I really think that the advice on any board like that could cause as much harm as it does good.
I think that one of the key points that needs to be passed on is that Roo is not an appropriate place or time to experiment with new "activities" for multiple reasons: the heat, the demands already placed upon the body, the overload of stimuli and the possibility of getting misdirected or lost. Heck, last year I remember walking back to camp one night by myself completely sober and getting lost...lol.
I think that one of the key points that needs to be passed on is that Roo is not an appropriate place or time to experiment with new "activities" for multiple reasons: the heat, the demands already placed upon the body, the overload of stimuli and the possibility of getting misdirected or lost. Heck, last year I remember walking back to camp one night by myself completely sober and getting lost...lol.
I remember heading to Roo thinking that this would be my first time hanging out with molly and some of her friends. After doing lots of research and realizing the possible interactions with current medication I was on could be extremely harmful I decided I was better off watching over my friends. I remember making people drink more water, and take it easy when it was necessary. We really need to watch out for each other. I remember one kid had no idea where he was, so we let him hang out with us for awhile. We couldn't really take him back to his site cause he had no idea where it was, but at least he wasnt alone.
After doing lots of research and realizing the possible interactions with current medication I was on could be extremely harmful I decided I was better off watching over my friends. I remember making people drink more water, and take it easy when it was necessary. We really need to watch out for each other.
srp333, that's amazing. Congrats on making some great choices that may have saved a life. Many Fridays for you. I wish I could say that I think everyone would be that responsible.
I remember heading to Roo thinking that this would be my first time hanging out with molly and some of her friends. After doing lots of research and realizing the possible interactions with current medication I was on could be extremely harmful I decided I was better off watching over my friends. I remember making people drink more water, and take it easy when it was necessary.
This is why education works. Even if you would have made a different decision that you did at least you went into it knowing possible outcomes.
I don't care if some people do the research and still decide to get high. That's a personal decision. But at least they get his with the knowledge of how to take care of themselves.
Things like DanceSafe are not about drug prevention, they are about harm reduction.
We all know how well abstinance only works. It doesn't by the way.
I appreciate the concern over not wanting someone to choose a dangerous activity (such as party favors, which come on, they are, no matter what) because of harm reduction information posted on inforoo and then gets hurt.
But...teaching people to wear seatbelts doesn't cause more car crashes. Teaching people to wear condoms doesn't make them have sex. Teaching people harm reduction doesn't make them go out and try new activities.
I appreciate the concern over not wanting someone to choose a dangerous activity (such as party favors, which come on, they are, no matter what) because of harm reduction information posted on inforoo and then gets hurt.
But...teaching people to wear seatbelts doesn't cause more car crashes. Teaching people to wear condoms doesn't make them have sex. Teaching people harm reduction doesn't make them go out and try new activities.
What she said...
and Mods, I have some hydration, shade ideas, and dehydration prevention and I am ready to yell! I mean I am ready to speak, speak to Bonnaroo about changes. Like more, I mean a lot more, shade in Centeroo, shade at the Pods. More literature about S/S of dehydration and other ideas. I want to help.
Post by myscatterheart on Jun 16, 2011 11:38:22 GMT -5
I think what was awesome, and worked well, were the people for the coconut water passing out the drinks. The only problem was that they were primarily walking around to shaded areas (don't blame them, at ALL, of course)- but if these kind of companies were allowed to promote, and told to pass out their products to those in the sun who needed it, I think it could put a dent (if, however small) - in some of the liquid issues. (Btw, I now LOVE that stuff. Tasted really good, super refreshing. Lots of sugar, but oh well.)
I think that one of the key points that needs to be passed on is that Roo is not an appropriate place or time to experiment with new "activities" for multiple reasons: the heat, the demands already placed upon the body, the overload of stimuli and the possibility of getting misdirected or lost. Heck, last year I remember walking back to camp one night by myself completely sober and getting lost...lol.
well said.
this feels like the catch 22 of conversation points. this fest is bound to have more and more new faces show every year. education is obviously the best defense against anything. like the ideas and discussion guys
Thank you for this post and for those trying to get a project like DanceSafe started.
One note here about the heat and sun: There are some very popular druqs that are horrible companions in the heat and sun. Most importantly, Molly. There is something very particularly about mdma that makes it extremely dangerous in high heat and/or with improper hydration. In fact, there is probably no worse environment for Molly than Bonnaroo and few druqs that are made as uniquely dangerous in the 'roo heat. Even those with experience under cooler/evening/indoor conditions are unlikely to be aware of the extreme dangers this combination can pose.
A program like DanceSafe might help to highlight that, but also it would help if we could have a more open coversation about druq presence and risks in places like this. Banning the druq talk here only makes it all the harder.
But I've heard voices not in the head Out in the air they called ahead Through ripped out speakers Through thick and thin They found a shelter Under my skin -Evgeny Aleksandrovitch Nikolaev
I have kept my mouth shut about this since I'm mostly a lurker & don't contribute much...however, I have been a member for some time and was a longtime lurker before I ever joined, so I've done a lot of reading here. I wasn't at Roo last year and, as a result, I kept away from the message boards for the most part because I was so upset that I couldn't make it. When I checked in after Roo & saw the news about Matt, I stayed away for several months because I was so shocked & upset about what happened.
When I decided to head back down to the farm this year, I started checking back in regularly and was kind of astounded at what I saw posted and (some of) the reactions to Matt's death. I wasn't there, so I obviously didn't have any knowledge other than what I read online but the outrage seemed to be misdirected. Do I think the festival has slowly improved logistically over the time I've been there? Mostly. Does the festival need more shade? Yes. Does the festival need more access to water stations? Most definitely.
All of that being said - we all need to acknowledge that there are other reasons for MOST of the deaths that occur at Bonnaroo. I'm saying most, not ALL. Freak accidents and anomalies happen. I completely understand the need for discretion and that this is a highly public forum. I don't want to cause any additional or unnecessary pain to the family and friends of those that have passed. I also understand the reasons for limiting the discussion of "no no word".
It needs to be said that this has reached our front door and it's clearly not going away. Experienced people that we all know and love have died. Senselessly. Others have had issues that have fortunately not ended so tragically. Telling everyone to drink more water and getting outraged by the lack of facilities will not solve this issue. The "no no word" problems are right here in our faces. I have people in my real life that I have lost and now I have online friends that I have lost. Both are equally terrible.
There always seem to be a few people that nicely (and discreetly) point out that we should be talking for real and they end up getting shushed and attacked. I am completely heartbroken that anyone died....but it also makes it so much more real when it's someone that we all know. It also makes it much harder to brush it off and attribute it to ignorance or stupidity. These are seasoned veterans, people who loved Bonnaroo and knew what the conditions were.
I do think that as a community we have a lot of power. We can and should get organized and lobby for the things we all know would improve the festival. We can and should also be addressing the things that no one wants to talk about. I love this forum and I love Bonnaroo - I'll go back to lurking if this is unwelcome but I couldn't keep quiet any longer. I for one will do whatever I can offline if no one is interested in what I'm saying here but if anyone is, let's talk.
Post by wakeburner on Jun 16, 2011 13:46:10 GMT -5
The people that I saw hanging out with Molly and her friends made me wonder why they'd want to be around her. It seemed she made an ass of herself wherever she went, and brought a twitchy, self-important, anti-social vibe with her always. I just don't get it, and I know I never will...
I have some hydration, shade ideas, and dehydration prevention and I am ready to yell! I mean I am ready to speak, speak to Bonnaroo about changes. Like more, I mean a lot more, shade in Centeroo, shade at the Pods. More literature about S/S of dehydration and other ideas. I want to help.
Thanks for the post - great stuff....let me know if/when you get anything started....I'd love to be involved & help!
Lisalou, what you said was beautifully put and brave. Thank you for saying it.
I think DanceSafe sounds wonderful, as do the water/shade initiatives. Glad to hear about them - please let me know how I can help.
But I will also lend my voices to those who say that there is a difference between being "safer" and being completely safe. When you are taking the risks that many do for the sake of a good time at Bonnaroo, you are never completely safe no matter how "smart" you are about it. All of us should know this for a fact by now. That's why even though I think DanceSafe is really great, I truly believe the solution is staying sober and keeping your friends sober. I just feel I had to say that.
Post by thisismyname on Jun 19, 2011 1:22:54 GMT -5
I haven't had the chance to read through this whole thread yet, but I just want to agree that the first post/original point of this thread is fantastic. Thank you for making this thread, lisalou.
I said this briefly somewhere else but I'll add it here too.
I used to be a part of a chapter of an organization called DanceSafe. Our Buffalo chapter was called Fushion.
This is the bio from their website
I've always wondered why DanceSafe is not at Bonnaroo. I'm very familiar with the organization. Education and testing saves lives. It's impossible to stop what might show up, but to pretend it doesn't exist and not educating people on the hazards is dangerous.
However, I don't know if this is the place for this education. I was a part of a high profile message board in the late 90's/early 00's that was similar, kind of a cross between Inforoo and DanceSafe. There was trouble with the law because of the community side of it (meetups at raves). I would hate to bring the scrutiny of law enforcement upon our Inforoo.
I think getting DanaceSafe or Bunk Police on the farm would be a big step in the direction of getting people aware and making sure they knot what they are doing.
