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Congratulations, Juggs, you're one of the eight trillion people commenting on how much "Beth/Rest" sounds like (insert 80s tune here). That's not to say that that is an invalid opinion. It does sound like a lot of songs from the 80s, but that's clearly what he wanted the song to sound like. In my opinion, he did that style of music well, and that's really all that matters to me. That, and:
The whole album sounds like the mid-1980's. Not just that song.
I don't dislike the album, I just don't get the praise. And I certainly am not sold on it being a great album when people defend it by basically saying "Yeah, it sounds like all the shit music from the 80's, that's what he wanted it to sound like! ITS A MASTERFUL RECREATION OF SOME OF THE WORST MUSIC EVER MADE! 9.5!!!"
That's a little reductive, don't you think?
The thing is, I'm not trying to sell you on it being a great album (I can't convince you an album is great just by debating it with you, only listening to the album itself can convince you it is great). I'm making the broader point that it's much easier to dismiss a piece of music as crappy because it's in a style you don't care for than it is to meet the music on its terms and judge it solely on its songwriting merits (note that by songwriting here, I do not mean just the lyrics, I mean the melodies, arrangements, etc.). After all, there was good music in the vein of Peter Cetera in the 80s: hell, those first two Bruce Hornsby (who, by the way, was a stated influence on Bon Iver for the new record) records are classics.
To put this point in another context, imagine that someone said they thought that Aquemini by Outkast is an overrated, Leno-y record. You ask them why, and they state that it's because they don't like late 90s hip-hop. You (the universal "you") would immediately dismiss that viewpoint as irrational. I realize that hating late 90s hip-hop is infinitely more baffling than hating 80s cheese-pop, but it's the same idea. You're saying the record sucks because you don't like the style of it, when the more accurate statement would be "I don't really like that style of music." If that's what you were saying all along about the new Bon Iver, then I apologize for even bringing it up.
Ultimately, I understand why you have an aversion to the record, but I would like to see someone make the case that this album is weak for its songwriting (again, not referring to just the lyrics here), or that Justin Vernon and the boys fell short of what they were trying to achieve.
I'm pretty far behind this year, but I also feel like I haven't been enthralled with most of the new stuff I've heard. Maybe that's my fault, but I say the rest of the world is crazy.
Here's some of the stuff that's been decent: If By Yes - Salt on Sea Grass Booker T. Jones - The Road From Memphis Jill Scott - The Light of the Sun Gregg Allman - Low Country Blues Tom Principato - A Part of Me Dengue Fever - Cannibal Courtship Warren Haynes - Man In Motion Charles Bradley - No Time For Dreaming Raphael Saadiq - Stone Rollin Vusi Mahlasela - Say Africa Bill Frisell & Vinicius Cantuaria - Lagrimas Mexicanas I also love the Buddy Holly tribute.
The thing is, I'm not trying to sell you on it being a great album (I can't convince you an album is great just by debating it with you, only listening to the album itself can convince you it is great). I'm making the broader point that it's much easier to dismiss a piece of music as crappy because it's in a style you don't care for than it is to meet the music on its terms and judge it solely on its songwriting merits (note that by songwriting here, I do not mean just the lyrics, I mean the melodies, arrangements, etc.). After all, there was good music in the vein of Peter Cetera in the 80s: hell, those first two Bruce Hornsby (who, by the way, was a stated influence on Bon Iver for the new record) records are classics.
To put this point in another context, imagine that someone said they thought that Aquemini by Outkast is an overrated, Leno-y record. You ask them why, and they state that it's because they don't like late 90s hip-hop. You (the universal "you") would immediately dismiss that viewpoint as irrational. I realize that hating late 90s hip-hop is infinitely more baffling than hating 80s cheese-pop, but it's the same idea. You're saying the record sucks because you don't like the style of it, when the more accurate statement would be "I don't really like that style of music." If that's what you were saying all along about the new Bon Iver, then I apologize for even bringing it up.
Ultimately, I understand why you have an aversion to the record, but I would like to see someone make the case that this album is weak for its songwriting (again, not referring to just the lyrics here), or that Justin Vernon and the boys fell short of what they were trying to achieve.
P.S. That Mastodon album cover is amazing.
I don't have an "aversion" to the record. I've noted a couple times now that I don't dislike it, I just don't get the hype. And I agree that that particular era of music that he's trying to ape wasn't all shite, it just seems like he went for the shiittiest, cheesiest parts of it. Maybe it's just my backlash to all the absolute crap from the 80's ALREADY coming back to haunt us (fucking neon day glo, tight pegged jeans and big sneakers, loose-ass tank-tops, for God's sake there was a cheesy as hell Clarence Clemons (r.i.p) sax solo in the new Lady Gaga single!), but I just don't see the genius here. It's not being dismissive of a whole sound of music, or a style, it's thinking that he could have done so much more with what he had to make this a really interesting album. I've listened to it about 8 times now, and I'm just bored. Maybe I'll try it again this weekend and see, but this is one of those things where I flat out don't get the hype. (Much like James Blake, and Fly Lo - I'm going to go duck and cover now.)
Fair enough.
As far as why there's so much hype, I think one thing that help explains that is that it's so different from what is currently trendy in music. Any time there's a highly anticipated release in the internet age that goes in a completely unexpected direction, it's going to get either "best album of the year" hype or "worst album ever" hype. That's what it seems like to me, anyway.
Post by FuzzyWarbles on Jul 8, 2011 22:41:45 GMT -5
I love seeing everyone's lists. Some of my favorites have been...
Iron & Wine - Kiss Each Other Clean Steve Earle - I'll Never Get Out Of This World Alive Centro-Matic - Candidate Waltz Middle Brother The Cave Singers - No Witch Gillian Welch - The Harrow and The Harvest Yuck - Yuck Gregg Allman - Low Country Blues Tedeschi Trucks Band - Revelator My Morning Jacket - Circuital Kurt Vile - Smoke Ring For My Halo tUnE-yArDs - WHOKILL Drive-By Truckers - Go Go Boots Destroyer - Kaputt TV On The Radio - Nine Types Of Light Warren Haynes - Man In Motion Booker T Jones and The Roots - Road To Memphis White Denim - D Ha Ha Tonka - Death Of A Decade Jessica Lea Mayfield - Tell Me The Kills - Blood Pressures Danger Mouse and Daniel Luppi - Rome
edit: I finally got around to listening to the new tUnE-yArDs and Yuck andhad to add them. Plus, the new Centro-Matic is really good.
My Morning Jacket - Circuital Tv on the Radio - Nine Types of Light Bon Iver - Bon Iver The Kills - Blood Pressures The Strokes - Angles Smith Westerns - Dye it Blonde Dale Earnhardt Jr Jr - It's a Corporate World Arctic Monkeys - Suck It and See
I'm pretty far behind this year, but I also feel like I haven't been enthralled with most of the new stuff I've heard. Maybe that's my fault, but I say the rest of the world is crazy.
Here's some of the stuff that's been decent: If By Yes - Salt on Sea Grass Booker T. Jones - The Road From Memphis Jill Scott - The Light of the Sun Gregg Allman - Low Country Blues Tom Principato - A Part of Me Dengue Fever - Cannibal Courtship Warren Haynes - Man In Motion Charles Bradley - No Time For Dreaming Raphael Saadiq - Stone Rollin Vusi Mahlasela - Say Africa Bill Frisell & Vinicius Cantuaria - Lagrimas Mexicanas I also love the Buddy Holly tribute.
Ah, didn't know Booker T. and Raphael Saadiq released new albums. May have to check those out. Thanks!
Edited to add that Lil' B is flat out fucking terrible. I do not get that shit, at all.
I enjoyed Angel's Exodus, I haven't really heard much of the new album yet. And yea, most of the random songs you can hear on youtube do suck, horribly, but if you get past his marketing scheme and listen to his actual albums, you'll find more quality material.
Post by awolfatthedoor on Jul 15, 2011 15:21:37 GMT -5
Yeah why do people like Lil B? I saw enough people raving about I'm Gay to give it a shot, and it was incredibly uncompelling. Almost a talent to be that boring.