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A little back story, for those who don't know, I've been seeing this fella for about a year now. He chooses to be monogamous and I see someone else occasionally. We have very open communication about everything and most things I can logically deal with but I'm quite shut off from all of it emotionally. When we first started dating, he would tell me he loved me and I would say, "No, you don't. You don't know me." That seems very true to me, he didn't know me, and I don't believe that he loved me. He loved the idea of me. Now that we are quite far in, I do think he knows who I am and he is saying that he's "in love" with me. I've told him I don't feel the same way. I love him. I care what happens to him. There are parts of him that I adore but I don't feel that overwhelming, crazy, I can't think about anything else, rabid "in love" feeling toward him or anyone. I'm not sure that I ever will again. In love to me seems to be hormonal or that you are dependent on the person for something you are lacking, that the person is filling something you can't fill yourself or can't do without. Since I have my children, and I don't want more, I feel like the hormonal part isn't there and I've been working on becoming more self sufficient so I don't need anyone else.
Last night, while he was taking me to do posters, he started getting emotional and said he feels like he is here until the next person comes along. I don't feel like he's a space filler, but I do feel like everyone is here until we change and grow and then something or someone else fits better comes in. I totally believe that if he found someone like me who is monogamous and wanted to have kids, get married, and move in with him that he would choose her and I would be hurt but understand. She would fit him better than me. He denies all of this and says he could never love anyone as much as he loves me. He is going to try harder to do things for me. This is something I've mentioned before to him that I would like. He doesn't do little things like cards or notes, bring me something unexpected, just because. He does do things like help with the kids, take Dave Maynar to work, give me rides here and there, help me with chores I need help with so it isn't really that big of a deal. I do feel loved by him. After he dropped me off I started thinking that I do much of the same things for him. I cook for him, help him with his job, help him navigate social situations, help him with is artists page and getting booked but I don't do little things. I sent him a text, "What can I do to make you feel special?" I fell asleep before he responded and woke to "I don't want to feel special, I want to feel loved."
How do I do that? I've told him I do love him but he wants me to be in love with him. I can't make myself do that...or can I? Should I think about cutting things off so he is not hurt more in the long run? I feel like he might regret staying with me when he could be looking for someone else. He said he wouldn't regret it and he is free to date or seek other people. I can't help feeling like I'm a bad guy. I'm lost on what to do.
I have lots of thoughts on this but am about to go tutor, so I'll come back and relay them later this eve
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
A little back story, for those who don't know, I've been seeing this fella for about a year now. He chooses to be monogamous and I see someone else occasionally. We have very open communication about everything and most things I can logically deal with but I'm quite shut off from all of it emotionally. When we first started dating, he would tell me he loved me and I would say, "No, you don't. You don't know me." That seems very true to me, he didn't know me, and I don't believe that he loved me. He loved the idea of me. Now that we are quite far in, I do think he knows who I am and he is saying that he's "in love" with me. I've told him I don't feel the same way. I love him. I care what happens to him. There are parts of him that I adore but I don't feel that overwhelming, crazy, I can't think about anything else, rabid "in love" feeling toward him or anyone. I'm not sure that I ever will again. In love to me seems to be hormonal or that you are dependent on the person for something you are lacking, that the person is filling something you can't fill yourself or can't do without. Since I have my children, and I don't want more, I feel like the hormonal part isn't there and I've been working on becoming more self sufficient so I don't need anyone else.
Last night, while he was taking me to do posters, he started getting emotional and said he feels like he is here until the next person comes along. I don't feel like he's a space filler, but I do feel like everyone is here until we change and grow and then something or someone else fits better comes in. I totally believe that if he found someone like me who is monogamous and wanted to have kids, get married, and move in with him that he would choose her and I would be hurt but understand. She would fit him better than me. He denies all of this and says he could never love anyone as much as he loves me. He is going to try harder to do things for me. This is something I've mentioned before to him that I would like. He doesn't do little things like cards or notes, bring me something unexpected, just because. He does do things like help with the kids, take Dave Maynar to work, give me rides here and there, help me with chores I need help with so it isn't really that big of a deal. I do feel loved by him. After he dropped me off I started thinking that I do much of the same things for him. I cook for him, help him with his job, help him navigate social situations, help him with is artists page and getting booked but I don't do little things. I sent him a text, "What can I do to make you feel special?" I fell asleep before he responded and woke to "I don't want to feel special, I want to feel loved."
How do I do that? I've told him I do love him but he wants me to be in love with him. I can't make myself do that...or can I? Should I think about cutting things off so he is not hurt more in the long run? I feel like he might regret staying with me when he could be looking for someone else. He said he wouldn't regret it and he is free to date or seek other people. I can't help feeling like I'm a bad guy. I'm lost on what to do.
I have lots of thoughts on this but am about to go tutor, so I'll come back and relay them later this eve
I'm going to have lots of thoughts on your reply but I'm waiting on you to make it, so I'll come back and reply sometime after you reply this eve
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
o'neil
Showerless Shakedown Vendor Red Bull & Vodka Panda
Are you sure that he is okay with you dating other people, also? It's tough for me to imagine him feeling this way and not being hurt by that, even if he says that he isn't. But then again, I'm not directly in the situation.
We talked about it (me not being monogamous) before we started dating. We did have a period of time where we didn't see other people, so he does have issues when I do see someone new, but those conversations focus more on jealousy and we workout ways to get through that. This conversation last night was primarily about him not feeling loved, he wanted to know what our future was. He mentioned that the holidays were coming up and he didn't feel like he knew for sure that I would be involved in going to his family's house for dinner or that he would be invited to come to mine. Somewhere in there he mentioned lots of things like me moving, marriage, and multiple years together. Now, none of those were topics but kinda thrown in there to gauge my reaction, I believe. They were all future focused and focused on him and I. Of course, everything builds on everything so it probably adds into insecurity overall but I cannot change how he feels about himself. I'm trying to focus on what is best for him and I, what does he mean by in love, and how to make him feel loved.
I think we do want different things, as a couple of you noted, which is probably due to the fact that I've experienced a lot of what he wants. Being in love, marriage, children, and I'm almost 8 years older. He is looking for something easy, comfortable, dependable, and steady. I'm looking to grow, explore, and try new things.
I do adore him. He's a great person and really good in bed. A lot of our lives overlap. I work at the venue that he plays at and he is involved in production there. We like a lot of the same music, same festivals, and have some of the same friends. One good thing is, we are very open with communication. Everything I've said here, I've said to him. I'm just looking for some outside perspective.
man, that is a tough situation. I agree with others, I think he probably is really in love with you, and hoping that eventually, you will feel the same way about him. he may see your desire for an open relationship as a phase and think that you will settle down with him in the end. even if he's not consciously aware of it, I would bet that's what he is thinking.
not everyone is happy in a monogamous relationship, but it sounds like that's his thing and he won't ever fully be happy or comfortable with you having other partners in the long run. so even though you've been honest with him, it sounds to me like he's in denial about it, and even though it would be awful, it might be on you to end things (since he probably never will, because he'll be holding out hope that things will change). just my two cents, but I've been in enough relationships where the people involved had different expectations and goals, and it never works out well in my experience.
I'm going to have lots of thoughts on your reply but I'm waiting on you to make it, so I'll come back and reply sometime after you reply this eve
Hahaha, so does this mean you'll have positive things to say to my reply - or critical?
Given your history of posting, probably critical.
For realsies though, you are one of the people I hoped would chime in.
abrakapokus and I talked about this some when I got home from work, and I just wanted to add some of the things we bounced off each other. One of the things that might be getting marginalized is that she said that she isn't doing those "little things" for him. You can't ignore how those little acts make you feel wanted and appreciated within a relationship. I have never had experience in a relationship such as the one she has now, but I would assume that these little things would be even more valuable within a relationship like that since he doesn't have that sense of security that comes with someone telling you that they are seeing you and only you. Even in relationships with that, people tend to feel shitty about themselves and the relationship when their partner isn't putting forth those small bits of effort to exhibit the feels that they are feeling. Given that, I think the difference in long term ideals for a relationship is playing into it as well. In the parlance of science, you could look at this as having two variables within the experiment. It could be more one and it could be more the other, but it's difficult to tell with both of them being an unknown. It's highly unlikely that she can affect much change on his attitudes toward a long-term non-monogamous relationships, but she can definitely see what she could do with putting more effort into those little things that shows how she feels about him. If the addition of these things gives him that feeling of love that he wants and makes him happy in the relationship. Hooray! Problem solved. If not, it's more likely that it's the differences in the idea of what they want a long-term relationship to be that is causing the friction, and they would have to reevaluate the relationship altogether at that point as there would be a greater likelihood that neither could provide the kind of relationship that the other wants. Also, with this, it would likely lessen her feelings of being the bad guy because she did all she could to make the relationship work aside from compromising ideas that she feels deeply which wouldn't be fair to her or him.
Hahaha, so does this mean you'll have positive things to say to my reply - or critical?
Given your history of posting, probably critical.
For realsies though, you are one of the people I hoped would chime in.
abrakapokus and I talked about this some when I got home from work, and I just wanted to add some of the things we bounced off each other. One of the things that might be getting marginalized is that she said that she isn't doing those "little things" for him. You can't ignore how those little acts make you feel wanted and appreciated within a relationship. I have never had experience in a relationship such as the one she has now, but I would assume that these little things would be even more valuable within a relationship like that since he doesn't have that sense of security that comes with someone telling you that they are seeing you and only you. Even in relationships with that, people tend to feel shitty about themselves and the relationship when their partner isn't putting forth those small bits of effort to exhibit the feels that they are feeling. Given that, I think the difference in long term ideals for a relationship is playing into it as well. In the parlance of science, you could look at this as having two variables within the experiment. It could be more one and it could be more the other, but it's difficult to tell with both of them being an unknown. It's highly unlikely that she can affect much change on his attitudes toward a long-term non-monogamous relationships, but she can definitely see what she could do with putting more effort into those little things that shows how she feels about him. If the addition of these things gives him that feeling of love that he wants and makes him happy in the relationship. Hooray! Problem solved. If not, it's more likely that it's the differences in the idea of what they want a long-term relationship to be that is causing the friction, and they would have to reevaluate the relationship altogether at that point as there would be a greater likelihood that neither could provide the kind of relationship that the other wants. Also, with this, it would likely lessen her feelings of being the bad guy because she did all she could to make the relationship work aside from compromising ideas that she feels deeply which wouldn't be fair to her or him.
that's a fair point. obviously I am crazy in love with g anyway, but it definitely helps that beyond just the commitment of marriage and kids, he goes out of his way to make my day better, every single day. and I try to do the same for him, even though I'm innately a bit of a selfish bitch, because I want him to feel just as loved.
How do I do that? I've told him I do love him but he wants me to be in love with him. I can't make myself do that...or can I? Should I think about cutting things off so he is not hurt more in the long run? I feel like he might regret staying with me when he could be looking for someone else. He said he wouldn't regret it and he is free to date or seek other people. I can't help feeling like I'm a bad guy. I'm lost on what to do.
I want to specifically respond to this bolded part, then to your post as a whole. Short answer to your question: no!! You absolutely cannot make yourself fall in love with someone, which can be just as (or at least almost as) disheartening as how you cannot force yourself to not fall in love, either. That's what is simultaneously so captivating and frustrating and intense about love, about being in love: it is something that occurs beyond lines of reason, and often without consulting our individualized sense of rationality. I have been in love twice (I dated my first boyfriend for almost 2 years but we were young and it was very simplistic - I didn't feel as strongly about him as I have for the other two people I consider to have truly loved), and with the first one, there were so many issues and incompatibiities - things that my friends and family noted pretty quickly, but even recognizing them myself on a rational level didn't keep me from falling for him really hard, and ultimately feeling pretty heartbroken when it didn't work out (despite knowing it almost certainly wouldn't).
With the second (current partner), as you know he is moving really soon, and I have known that he'd eventually move across the country from literally Date 1. Yeah, of course I had a choice to walk away right then and there and not explore the relationship because of that fact, but once I chose to move ahead and let it progress as it would, it wasn't as if I had the capacity to choose not to fall in love with him.
The other side of the coin (which I've also experienced) is when you want to will yourself to feel more than you do - rather than less. Or I shouldn't say "less," as it is futile to try and quantify magnitude of emotions, so instead of willing yourself to feel "less," let's say feel differently, to want the things that he does when you know in your heart of hearts that you simply don't. Being able to relate to the poly/non-mono side of things here, I have to say that I don't think that's the main issue from your angle of things, right? Poly/non-mono people fall in love, and deeply, all the time - it isn't like choosing that relationship structure/lifestyle results in forfeiting the ability to love to the world's end and beyond. Just means you want to share your love/affection more openly and widely than others might. Sure, his monogamy-geared mind may be playing into your thinking of how you feel about him, but I don't personally believe that even sorting out this mono vs non-mono issue would lend itself to you feeling more strongly towards him. I could be wrong there though. But I think generally people love who they love - and yes we should choose carefully and consciously with whom we we pursue connections and decide to be vulnerable, but the actual feeling part itself: it isn't a choice, not something that can be reasoned in or out of.
You were upfront and honest with him from the start about your desire for non-monogamy and interior knowledge that that is the path you desire to take towards your best sense of self and romantic happiness and all that good stuff. He let you know that that isn't really his ideal situation/relationship structure, but for a slew of reasons (namely his affection for you, but additionally for some reasons I'm sure that we cannot know, maybe you don't even know), he decided to take that plunge anyway, aware of the conditions that you had expressly asserted. He made that choice to try this out - but he didn't choose to fall in love with you. Just like I chose to pursue a relationship with someone who I knew wouldn't be staying in the area long-term.
I couldn't know where my feelings would be in 6 months' time and how much it will fucking hurt when he does leave (imminently), just as your partner couldn't have projected to know that he'd feel for you as strongly as he does and thus have these feelings of sadness and insecurity because the relationship isn't what he wants it to be. You were clear with him. You were honest. Just like my person was with me, and neither of you did anything wrong in that regard. Having that prior knowledge doesn't make the reality of the situation break your heart any less, though. In the same way that knowing all along that my partner would ultimately move very far away is doing nothing now to cushion the hurt of knowing that time is really near. A hard thing to realize - but an important one, too. I guess my situation is a bit different in that he and I are both struggling with having fallen more for each other than we had prepared ourselves for and now having to deal with that, and you and your lover are standing more so on opposite sides of the river bed and trying to find a compromise (even if that hasn't been explicitly communicated, it does seem to be what is happening - he wants a compromise of sorts, for you to maybe step even just a few steps back from whatever line you've marked for yourself in terms of the type of relationship you want, closer to his line/what he wants). And that isn't an unreasonable or unfair thing for him to want, necessarily; but it might not be something you are willing to do right now, as you consider what will make you happiest and feeling most free and at peace. And that is so very okay for you to not want to do.
As for the "little things" you keep mentioning - it kind of goes back to what I said above, actually. I find myself naturally doing little stuff like that for the people I really love, without even thinking about it soemtimes, but it doesn't so much enter my mind to do that when I don't feel as strongly for a lover. That doesn't make me (or you) insensitive or selfish, but again, you generally can't force what isn't naturally there. You can try, but results won't be pretty.
You should also take a look at this though. For example, I steer way more towards Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation than the other 3 types of love language. You should take this test, maybe see if he will too, to gauge if you guys have really different ways of expressing affection and how to consider being a more open/ready receiver of each other's respective languages. It is a kind of silly test, but it does show important differences in how we communicate our affections to those we care about.
Sorry that I started ranting about my own love life situation btw haha; I promise I'm not self centered, it is just the easiest way for me to relate to others in giving advice, to try to apply my own experiences and emotions that I've encountered. Idk if I really answered your questions that well. I mostly rambled...
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
You can force yourself to love someone. Just stop being a curmudgeon and focus on their positive traits (assuming they have any).
How about you take a seat, champ?
FTR, that wasn't specific to any person. It was just in response to Rummy's proclamation that love is some sort of existential element that we as mere humans have no control over.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
SupeЯfuЯЯyanimal
Bleary-Eyed Bonnawook Globlist Facist Slave Dog
How do I do that? I've told him I do love him but he wants me to be in love with him. I can't make myself do that...or can I? Should I think about cutting things off so he is not hurt more in the long run? I feel like he might regret staying with me when he could be looking for someone else. He said he wouldn't regret it and he is free to date or seek other people. I can't help feeling like I'm a bad guy. I'm lost on what to do.
I want to specifically respond to this bolded part, then to your post as a whole. Short answer to your question: no!! You absolutely cannot make yourself fall in love with someone, which can be just as (or at least almost as) disheartening as how you cannot force yourself to not fall in love, either. That's what is simultaneously so captivating and frustrating and intense about love, about being in love: it is something that occurs beyond lines of reason, and often without consulting our individualized sense of rationality. I have been in love twice (I dated my first boyfriend for almost 2 years but we were young and it was very simplistic - I didn't feel as strongly about him as I have for the other two people I consider to have truly loved), and with the first one, there were so many issues and incompatibiities - things that my friends and family noted pretty quickly, but even recognizing them myself on a rational level didn't keep me from falling for him really hard, and ultimately feeling pretty heartbroken when it didn't work out (despite knowing it almost certainly wouldn't).
With the second (current partner), as you know he is moving really soon, and I have known that he'd eventually move across the country from literally Date 1. Yeah, of course I had a choice to walk away right then and there and not explore the relationship because of that fact, but once I chose to move ahead and let it progress as it would, it wasn't as if I had the capacity to choose not to fall in love with him.
The other side of the coin (which I've also experienced) is when you want to will yourself to feel more than you do - rather than less. Or I shouldn't say "less," as it is futile to try and quantify magnitude of emotions, so instead of willing yourself to feel "less," let's say feel differently, to want the things that he does when you know in your heart of hearts that you simply don't. Being able to relate to the poly/non-mono side of things here, I have to say that I don't think that's the main issue from your angle of things, right? Poly/non-mono people fall in love, and deeply, all the time - it isn't like choosing that relationship structure/lifestyle results in forfeiting the ability to love to the world's end and beyond. Just means you want to share your love/affection more openly and widely than others might. Sure, his monogamy-geared mind may be playing into your thinking of how you feel about him, but I don't personally believe that even sorting out this mono vs non-mono issue would lend itself to you feeling more strongly towards him. I could be wrong there though. But I think generally people love who they love - and yes we should choose carefully and consciously with whom we we pursue connections and decide to be vulnerable, but the actual feeling part itself: it isn't a choice, not something that can be reasoned in or out of.
You were upfront and honest with him from the start about your desire for non-monogamy and interior knowledge that that is the path you desire to take towards your best sense of self and romantic happiness and all that good stuff. He let you know that that isn't really his ideal situation/relationship structure, but for a slew of reasons (namely his affection for you, but additionally for some reasons I'm sure that we cannot know, maybe you don't even know), he decided to take that plunge anyway, aware of the conditions that you had expressly asserted. He made that choice to try this out - but he didn't choose to fall in love with you. Just like I chose to pursue a relationship with someone who I knew wouldn't be staying in the area long-term.
I couldn't know where my feelings would be in 6 months' time and how much it will fucking hurt when he does leave (imminently), just as your partner couldn't have projected to know that he'd feel for you as strongly as he does and thus have these feelings of sadness and insecurity because the relationship isn't what he wants it to be. You were clear with him. You were honest. Just like my person was with me, and neither of you did anything wrong in that regard. Having that prior knowledge doesn't make the reality of the situation break your heart any less, though. In the same way that knowing all along that my partner would ultimately move very far away is doing nothing now to cushion the hurt of knowing that time is really near. A hard thing to realize - but an important one, too. I guess my situation is a bit different in that he and I are both struggling with having fallen more for each other than we had prepared ourselves for and now having to deal with that, and you and your lover are standing more so on opposite sides of the river bed and trying to find a compromise (even if that hasn't been explicitly communicated, it does seem to be what is happening - he wants a compromise of sorts, for you to maybe step even just a few steps back from whatever line you've marked for yourself in terms of the type of relationship you want, closer to his line/what he wants). And that isn't an unreasonable or unfair thing for him to want, necessarily; but it might not be something you are willing to do right now, as you consider what will make you happiest and feeling most free and at peace. And that is so very okay for you to not want to do.
As for the "little things" you keep mentioning - it kind of goes back to what I said above, actually. I find myself naturally doing little stuff like that for the people I really love, without even thinking about it soemtimes, but it doesn't so much enter my mind to do that when I don't feel as strongly for a lover. That doesn't make me (or you) insensitive or selfish, but again, you generally can't force what isn't naturally there. You can try, but results won't be pretty.
You should also take a look at this though. For example, I steer way more towards Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation than the other 3 types of love language. You should take this test, maybe see if he will too, to gauge if you guys have really different ways of expressing affection and how to consider being a more open/ready receiver of each other's respective languages. It is a kind of silly test, but it does show important differences in how we communicate our affections to those we care about.
Sorry that I started ranting about my own love life situation btw haha; I promise I'm not self centered, it is just the easiest way for me to relate to others in giving advice, to try to apply my own experiences and emotions that I've encountered. Idk if I really answered your questions that well. I mostly rambled...
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I want to specifically respond to this bolded part, then to your post as a whole. Short answer to your question: no!! You absolutely cannot make yourself fall in love with someone, which can be just as (or at least almost as) disheartening as how you cannot force yourself to not fall in love, either. That's what is simultaneously so captivating and frustrating and intense about love, about being in love: it is something that occurs beyond lines of reason, and often without consulting our individualized sense of rationality. I have been in love twice (I dated my first boyfriend for almost 2 years but we were young and it was very simplistic - I didn't feel as strongly about him as I have for the other two people I consider to have truly loved), and with the first one, there were so many issues and incompatibiities - things that my friends and family noted pretty quickly, but even recognizing them myself on a rational level didn't keep me from falling for him really hard, and ultimately feeling pretty heartbroken when it didn't work out (despite knowing it almost certainly wouldn't).
With the second (current partner), as you know he is moving really soon, and I have known that he'd eventually move across the country from literally Date 1. Yeah, of course I had a choice to walk away right then and there and not explore the relationship because of that fact, but once I chose to move ahead and let it progress as it would, it wasn't as if I had the capacity to choose not to fall in love with him.
The other side of the coin (which I've also experienced) is when you want to will yourself to feel more than you do - rather than less. Or I shouldn't say "less," as it is futile to try and quantify magnitude of emotions, so instead of willing yourself to feel "less," let's say feel differently, to want the things that he does when you know in your heart of hearts that you simply don't. Being able to relate to the poly/non-mono side of things here, I have to say that I don't think that's the main issue from your angle of things, right? Poly/non-mono people fall in love, and deeply, all the time - it isn't like choosing that relationship structure/lifestyle results in forfeiting the ability to love to the world's end and beyond. Just means you want to share your love/affection more openly and widely than others might. Sure, his monogamy-geared mind may be playing into your thinking of how you feel about him, but I don't personally believe that even sorting out this mono vs non-mono issue would lend itself to you feeling more strongly towards him. I could be wrong there though. But I think generally people love who they love - and yes we should choose carefully and consciously with whom we we pursue connections and decide to be vulnerable, but the actual feeling part itself: it isn't a choice, not something that can be reasoned in or out of.
You were upfront and honest with him from the start about your desire for non-monogamy and interior knowledge that that is the path you desire to take towards your best sense of self and romantic happiness and all that good stuff. He let you know that that isn't really his ideal situation/relationship structure, but for a slew of reasons (namely his affection for you, but additionally for some reasons I'm sure that we cannot know, maybe you don't even know), he decided to take that plunge anyway, aware of the conditions that you had expressly asserted. He made that choice to try this out - but he didn't choose to fall in love with you. Just like I chose to pursue a relationship with someone who I knew wouldn't be staying in the area long-term.
I couldn't know where my feelings would be in 6 months' time and how much it will fucking hurt when he does leave (imminently), just as your partner couldn't have projected to know that he'd feel for you as strongly as he does and thus have these feelings of sadness and insecurity because the relationship isn't what he wants it to be. You were clear with him. You were honest. Just like my person was with me, and neither of you did anything wrong in that regard. Having that prior knowledge doesn't make the reality of the situation break your heart any less, though. In the same way that knowing all along that my partner would ultimately move very far away is doing nothing now to cushion the hurt of knowing that time is really near. A hard thing to realize - but an important one, too. I guess my situation is a bit different in that he and I are both struggling with having fallen more for each other than we had prepared ourselves for and now having to deal with that, and you and your lover are standing more so on opposite sides of the river bed and trying to find a compromise (even if that hasn't been explicitly communicated, it does seem to be what is happening - he wants a compromise of sorts, for you to maybe step even just a few steps back from whatever line you've marked for yourself in terms of the type of relationship you want, closer to his line/what he wants). And that isn't an unreasonable or unfair thing for him to want, necessarily; but it might not be something you are willing to do right now, as you consider what will make you happiest and feeling most free and at peace. And that is so very okay for you to not want to do.
As for the "little things" you keep mentioning - it kind of goes back to what I said above, actually. I find myself naturally doing little stuff like that for the people I really love, without even thinking about it soemtimes, but it doesn't so much enter my mind to do that when I don't feel as strongly for a lover. That doesn't make me (or you) insensitive or selfish, but again, you generally can't force what isn't naturally there. You can try, but results won't be pretty.
You should also take a look at this though. For example, I steer way more towards Physical Touch and Words of Affirmation than the other 3 types of love language. You should take this test, maybe see if he will too, to gauge if you guys have really different ways of expressing affection and how to consider being a more open/ready receiver of each other's respective languages. It is a kind of silly test, but it does show important differences in how we communicate our affections to those we care about.
Sorry that I started ranting about my own love life situation btw haha; I promise I'm not self centered, it is just the easiest way for me to relate to others in giving advice, to try to apply my own experiences and emotions that I've encountered. Idk if I really answered your questions that well. I mostly rambled...
TLDR
These are your thoughts to my thoughts?
*insert sqinty eyed emoji man*
She wanted guidance and opinions!! Thought I'd share as much as I could on the matter.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
Love exists, and is something that you can develop for anyone in a certain amount of time. Being IN love is a romantic infatuation with someone, and it is a flame that takes a lot of tending to to keep going. Are you infatuated enough to give it that kind of an effort?
Love exists, and is something that you can develop for anyone in a certain amount of time. Being IN love is a romantic infatuation with someone, and it is a flame that takes a lot of tending to to keep going. Are you infatuated enough to give it that kind of an effort?
Thank you.
I mean, if the majority of our planet can learn to love and revere an imaginary genocidal chauvinist, anything is possible.
We talked about it (me not being monogamous) before we started dating. We did have a period of time where we didn't see other people, so he does have issues when I do see someone new, but those conversations focus more on jealousy and we workout ways to get through that. This conversation last night was primarily about him not feeling loved, he wanted to know what our future was. He mentioned that the holidays were coming up and he didn't feel like he knew for sure that I would be involved in going to his family's house for dinner or that he would be invited to come to mine. Somewhere in there he mentioned lots of things like me moving, marriage, and multiple years together. Now, none of those were topics but kinda thrown in there to gauge my reaction, I believe. They were all future focused and focused on him and I. Of course, everything builds on everything so it probably adds into insecurity overall but I cannot change how he feels about himself. I'm trying to focus on what is best for him and I, what does he mean by in love, and how to make him feel loved.
I think we do want different things, as a couple of you noted, which is probably due to the fact that I've experienced a lot of what he wants. Being in love, marriage, children, and I'm almost 8 years older. He is looking for something easy, comfortable, dependable, and steady. I'm looking to grow, explore, and try new things.
I do adore him. He's a great person and really good in bed. A lot of our lives overlap. I work at the venue that he plays at and he is involved in production there. We like a lot of the same music, same festivals, and have some of the same friends. One good thing is, we are very open with communication. Everything I've said here, I've said to him. I'm just looking for some outside perspective.
I'm sure you've considered this but just to add my perspective. He's not being honest with himself. It seems he's just agreeing to your more open philosophy on dating until you come around and settle down to his way of thinking.
He doesn't want to lose you so he's going along with it. BUT, it seems clear what he wants is the more traditional relationship you described above. It seems emotionally unhealthy for him to continue with this but he's been told the score.The next time he drops one of his "I want to feel loved" texts remind him of that and let him know that he really needs to consider if he's truly comfortable with the situation as it's been explained. If not then it's best he moves on.
I have to disagree with you SFA, speaking from personal experience. I don't think he's lying to himself about the status of the relationship, I think he's waiting for Abra to decide what she really wants. She has three choices: (1) Reinforce the fact that she is not monogamous and needs to break it off. (2) Admit to the fact she's not "in love" with the guy, but cares about him enough to give "his way" a try. (3) Admit that she can't give the "in love" relationship he needs, reinforces her beliefs about the relationship, and lets him decide if he wants to remain in the status quo under her terms. If he doesn't want to stay in limbo, as you will, then he can walk away. If he chooses this option, he loses his right to complain about the way Abra is treating the relationship.
With these three thoughts in mind, here's a few questions for Abra: Do you feel you're at a point in your life where you've done the whole kids and marriage thing and don't want to have a traditional relationship again? Do you feel like you can EVER have a monogamous relationship again? Is that something you would even want, regardless of being with your current guy or not? I'm wondering if you're questioning you're capable of being in love with this particular guy, or if you are capable of being in love with any one particular person.
I think the biggest issue here is compatibility. You're very independent. He is not. You are polyamorous. He is not. These are both vitally pertinent and important to each of you as individuals and as a couple.
From what you've posted, I think there is probably a really good chance that he is in love with you - and I do see some codependency issues at play from your description, but having codependent tendencies and love are not mutually exclusive. After all, two highly dependent people can fall in love and live completely happy lives as they revel in their self-involvement. But given that you both do not share the same views in terms of dependence, I think this can create a power differential. The more in love with you he feels, or the more attached to you/dependent he feels, or the more he believes in the idea that being in love necessitates a high degree of compromise, the more likely he is to compromise his values. In the long run, it will wear the both of you down as one partner continuously denies themselves something they need. While I do believe it's possible for a monogamous guy to be in a healthy and happy relationship with a polyamorous woman, I think that guy would have to be incredibly secure with himself and the relationship, which frankly is not the vibe I'm getting.
I agree with Dave on the "doing little things" bit, but in my experience, working on issues from the outside in will only serve to cover things up until you guys get the nitty-gritty worked out. Sometimes two people in love are fundamentally incompatible. It sucks (I've been there), but it happens. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but personally I do think it's something that should be looked at.
A few more random notes:
I don't at all believe you can force yourself to be in love with someone. There might indeed be situational factors that, when changed, could cause a spark, but I don't believe you can will it to happen. There are tons of hormonal, pheromonal, and other biological factors that we just have no control over.
Jealousy is not necessarily unhealthy or necessitate objectification. A twinge of jealousy at the thought of you flirting with someone else? A pretty natural arising of an emotion, and IMO not something that should be invalidated or challenged if it doesn't affect the relationship. Becoming controlling because of jealousy or worrying your partner is cheating for no real reason? Unhealthy. What matters most is how that jealousy is channeled and dealt with. (Not saying you don't already know this; this is just more just me expounding my views to hear myself talk, so to speak).
Last Edit: Oct 23, 2015 12:25:29 GMT -5 by Jaz - Back to Top
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I think the biggest issue here is compatibility. You're very independent. He is not. You are polyamorous. He is not. These are both vitally pertinent and important to each of you as individuals and as a couple.
From what you've posted, I think there is probably a really good chance that he is in love with you - and I do see some codependency issues at play from your description, but having codependent tendencies and love are not mutually exclusive. After all, two highly dependent people can fall in love and live completely happy lives as they revel in their self-involvement. But given that you both do not share the same views in terms of dependence, I think this can create a power differential. The more in love with you he feels, or the more attached to you/dependent he feels, or the more he believes in the idea that being in love necessitates a high degree of compromise, the more likely he is to compromise his values. In the long run, it will wear the both of you down as one partner continuously denies themselves something they need. While I do believe it's possible for a monogamous guy to be in a healthy and happy relationship with a monogamous woman, I think that guy would have to be incredibly secure with himself and the relationship, which frankly is not the vibe I'm getting.
I agree with Dave on the "doing little things" bit, but in my experience, working on issues from the outside in will only serve to cover things up until you guys get the nitty-gritty worked out. Sometimes two people in love are fundamentally incompatible. It sucks (I've been there), but it happens. I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but personally I do think it's something that should be looked at.
A few more random notes:
I don't at all believe you can force yourself to be in love with someone. There might indeed be situational factors that, when changed, could cause a spark, but I don't believe you can will it to happen. There are tons of hormonal, pheromonal, and other biological factors that we just have no control over.
Jealousy is not necessarily unhealthy or necessitate objectification. A twinge of jealousy at the thought of you flirting with someone else? A pretty natural arising of an emotion, and IMO not something that should be invalidated or challenged if it doesn't effect the relationship. Becoming controlling because of jealousy or worrying your partner is cheating for no real reason? Unhealthy. What matters most is how that jealousy is channeled and dealt with. (Not saying you don't already know this; this is just more just me expounding my views to hear myself talk, so to speak).
I agree with almost all of this. Especially the italicized parts.
Reminds me that there was a main point I wanted to make in my post but got side tracked and never quite did, haha: compatibility really does seem to be big part of the issue here. Some incompatibilities are fairly trivial and can (and maybe even should) be overcome/worked through/compromised on/etc. Like having vastly different sleep schedules. Or liking to eat opposite types of food from one another. Even having different senses of humor. These often can be nuisances or frustrations but likely not deal breakers. But then there are the bigger ones...and you seem to have some pretty significant ones at play, from what you've told us about him and your relationship with him. How much do you truly believe you can change before either or both of you is compromising too much of their own selves/desires/needs?
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
I don't at all believe you can force yourself to be in love with someone. There might indeed be situational factors that, when changed, could cause a spark, but I don't believe you can will it to happen. There are tons of hormonal, pheromonal, and other biological factors that we just have no control over.
You must not be Irish. We can lie to ourselves with the best of 'em.
Have you guys discussed what being IN love means to you both? Maybe you are already on the same page and it's just a matter of semantics? Does being loved for him involve being monogamous?
He says that what makes being in love different that loving someone is: You think about that person in every decision you make. They are the first person you think of in the morning, and the last person at night. When you choose how you spend your time you want to spend all of it with the person you are in love with. That you are working toward a future together.
To me, this sounds like depending on one person for everything. That you are looking for that "one true love" or "soul-mate". I don't want to do everything with one person. I want to spend time with my friends, alone, and with other people. The only people I think about before I go to bed and when I wake up are my children and I don't expect that to change. I'm not the type of person to envision the future and I would hope that I'm not the same person in ten years, with the same ideas and wants, as I am now.
He said he thinks that I was in love with him in the beginning and I responded truthfully, that I might have been in love with the possibility of what could be. I think we all still have this idea that someone will be perfect and be your everything but that's not my reality. I didn't know him, before, like I do now. There is an excitement that he might think is "in-love" but I didn't fully trust him, like I do now. I wasn't comfortable around him, like I am now. Those things mean more to me than some hormonal fantasy of someone.
There is a huge difference between dependency on a partner, and consideration of a partner. Everyone needs to be their own complete person before they can try to build a connection with another - otherwise it can quickly become unhealthy and dependent. It's crucial to be on the same page about what you want out of the relationship / life in general. If being open (or poly, or whatever you consider yourself) is important to you, and monogamy is important to him, that is a fundamental difference in what you want from each other, and perhaps it is best to move on if you can’t reconcile those differences. Otherwise the attachment grows stronger, which makes the pain run deeper once the issues reach a boiling point.
All relationships involve some degree of sacrifice, and it’s up to you to decide if the happiness this person brings into your life is worth the sacrifices the relationship requires. Even if you share an attraction and enjoy each other's company, it's just as important to want the same things out of life and from each other. That was the main reason my college girlfriend and I ended up splitting, even though we still loved each other very much. She wanted kids (and soon) and I didn't; she was extremely reluctant to move away from her family (even just from New Haven to Boston), and I have insatiable wanderlust; and so on. All this despite the fact we were still quite in love when we separated. You can love someone as a friend, enjoy their company, share a mutual attraction, feel comfortable confiding in them - but all those factors together don’t necessarily make for an appropriate partner.
Wanting a monogamous relationship is understandable; if this person is against you spending time alone or with friends / family, to me that signals a much more serious issue of control and respect. It all relates back to the part about being your own person. Love isn’t always going to be the big, sweep-you-off-your-feet type of romance, and sometimes it’s better to have that slow burning type of love than the fiery passion that can fizzle away after the puppy love period. Whatever your decision, I hope it all works out for the best for both of you.
Post by abrakapokus on Oct 23, 2015 10:34:39 GMT -5
Thank you to everyone who responded, it really has given me a lot of insight. The biggest point being incompatibility. I try to find the best in people and focus on that. I've done a lot of that in this relationship. A lot of positives followed with, what I'm seeing now, are very big BUT...s. One of the biggest "Aha"s was Rummy 500 "I find myself naturally doing little stuff like that for the people I really love, without even thinking about it sometimes, but it doesn't so much enter my mind to do that when I don't feel as strongly for a lover." This is so true. I've been in the a relationship where that person occupied my thoughts constantly and I was always finding ways I could express it, throughout the day. I never had to put forth an effort to step it up, I had to willingly try to do less, so not to overwhelm them.
Several mentioned that he is just lying to himself about me becoming eventually monogamous or eventually wanting to settle down and somewhere in there falling in love with him. I've brought this up to him several times and I think it is more the conditioning we see in relationships growing up. The escalator: dating, exclusively dating, engaged, married, children, happily ever after. I have stated over and over that I don't want to be on that path. I've done it and it isn't for me. I don't, however, expect for him to automatically change his whole idea of relationships and what he has been raised in, to my view. But the fact that he is still bringing up these stages of relationships after so long, testing to see what I say, is something to note. He isn't really listening and believing what I say, he is waiting for me to change.
LD asked if I could really fall in love again. I don't know. I've been pretty upfront that I don't think so. To me, "in love" is depending on someone to be your everything and needing them. It is also a hormonal drive to procreate with someone else. My need for anyone has really dwindled. I needed someone when I was younger to be my rock, while I figured myself out. I needed them to be supportive, to show me love and worth. To lose them would mean I would lose everything I hold dear. Support, companionship, intimate touch etc. After I had children, I needed someone to help me, especially when things were scary and in the day to day struggles of having littles. Now that I'm older I have other ways of meeting these needs that isn't reliant on one person. I have friends, family, myself, and a stronger idea of who I am. For times that are hard, I have more knowledge on how to get the support I need. I don't want to put all of my time and reliance into and onto one person. I've seen what it is like when you let your friendships waste away, when you step away from your own interests and do not have and grow from new experiences. The only one that really sucks is intimate touch, which, is a huge reason I'm trying to work through this relationship. We are incredibly compatible physically. I can't let everything revolve around fear of losing that though.
What I am worried about the most is hurting him. Yes, I would feel pain and loss too if this were to go down but I've kept up my support system. He has not, no matter how much I've encouraged him to. He is not my everything, my children are my everything. He has made his world revolve around me and that puts a lot of pressure on me. On the other hand, I have helped him grow as a person. I've shown him how to build relationships with other people. Introduced him to lots of people and even taught him how to flirt. I've insisted that he spend time with his friends, going to shows that he wants, showing him very practical ways of getting through life like moving, getting a new job, dealing with previous abuse. I think for us it will be at what point do we reach a peak where neither of us is gaining from this relationship. A point where we are hurting each other more than helping each other.
I do have to say though that I don't see being in love in quite the same way as you've described - as "depending on someone to be your everything and needing them." Personally, I don't ever want a relationship like that, even with a long-term life partner; that degree of dependence doesn't make me happy in a romantic relationship, but of course it varies person to person. Some people really do get that way when they're in love - and enjoy it, the sense of depending on someone to be their everything. However, I definitely feel in love with my current partner, and we are both extremely independent (to the point that some of my friends have said they wouldn't be able to handle it; we don't communicate every single day especially if we are busy, and we mostly focus on just really making the most out of our time in person together, rather than needing to be in constant touch and relying on each other in all other regards of our life too). Of course if I end up building a life with someone and having kids, inherently I would then need to rely on them in certain ways as my life partner and the co-parent of our children, etc. etc., but I still resolutely hope to never lose my sense of independence and self-reliance through a relationship.
Considering you've found the need to respond to my threads as if you are threatened by me I offer you some peace my confused counterpart. May you find peace in your restless soul.
What I am worried about the most is hurting him. Yes, I would feel pain and loss too if this were to go down but I've kept up my support system. He has not, no matter how much I've encouraged him to. He is not my everything, my children are my everything. He has made his world revolve around me and that puts a lot of pressure on me. On the other hand, I have helped him grow as a person. I've shown him how to build relationships with other people. Introduced him to lots of people and even taught him how to flirt. I've insisted that he spend time with his friends, going to shows that he wants, showing him very practical ways of getting through life like moving, getting a new job, dealing with previous abuse. I think for us it will be at what point do we reach a peak where neither of us is gaining from this relationship. A point where we are hurting each other more than helping each other.
I can't help but hear this in my head upon reading this part of your post, albeit with the gender pronoun reversed:
You say you're looking for someone Who will promise never to part Someone to close his eyes for you Someone to close his heart Someone who will die for you and more But it ain't me, babe No, no, no, it ain't me babe It ain't me you're looking for, babe.
