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There isn't anything in regards to the null votes - should that be addressed?
That's a good point. I just knew I'd forget to include certain issues when I made this poll, and, well, here we are.
I absolutely think a null vote should count as a missed vote. The player had enough time to check in and weigh the facts, so it's on them if they slept on a decision for too long. A vote serves two functions - to influence who gets whacked, and to let others know where you stand. Nulling is a really easy way to avoid that second part. I don't, however, think that there should be a limit on nulling votes in general, just as long as you vote before the round's end.
Talk amongst yourselves and let me know where you stand on these issues. Unfortunately i can't edit a poll, so you'll have to let me know in the comments.
I think people should be allowed to finish a round with a null vote. The only thing that bothers me is when people don't check in at all, so I don't know if they are purposefully avoiding the game or if they aren't even aware that its happening.
Allowing null votes to finish a round adds an interesting wrinkle to the game IMO and still lets me know if someone is actively involved in the game. But I don't really give a shit. As long as people are forced to check in one way or another.
I've never played on this board, but in games I've played in person and on other forums, a player isn't ever required to vote. There are strategic reasons for middle of the roading or deliberately derailing lynch mobs and I'm typically not in favor of anything that limits strategic options. You guys know the effects of limiting the non-votes better than I do though.
In a way even choosing not to vote is a vote in most circles.
Last Edit: Apr 17, 2014 11:12:24 GMT -5 by nate - Back to Top
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
Mike D
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo King of the Smileys :-)
When this issue has come up in the past (null votes) I can say I really didn't like it. It seemed like more of a gimmick by whoever was using it and honestly I really didn't like it when someone did that. I thought it was more of a "buy me more time, my opinions/thoughts are more important than yours and i'm not gonna vote til you listen" type deal. In more recent games it seems like it is being used more frequently, but I personally don't see much use for it. Don't know if I am being a little old fashioned and stubborn to change my mind on it, but I just don't see where a townie would want to give up their vote in a round. That said though, if the majority wants to allow non-votes, ill support the change and may even give it a shot
And nate thanks for the input, I enjoy hearing different opinions on how other boards/sites play mafia. I am most curious on your comment about playing mafia in person
I will spend a little time considering these possible changes to the rules and make some recommendations to yall tonight on how I think they should be written/worded. Can't remember who, but someone commented on how to even change our rules - no real process as we are fairly informal about it here, but I would say majority opinion is needed to make a change (like we are discussing in this thread), and maybe have the folks that ref most games do a formal write-up to be added to the rules (kinda what I will write up for yall later).
I am most curious on your comment about playing mafia in person
I learned how to play mafia a few years ago at Roo while volunteering. We used to play it when we had down time. Its actually very fun in person and the game goes by sooooooo much more quickly.
Yeah, there is definitely less analysis in person like you can do going back through people's post history and all, but you have the added dimension of staring someone in the face when they're lying to you. At night everyone just puts their heads down like the game "heads down, 7 up." It's a lot of fun though, especially with a bunch of drunk people.
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
Mike D
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo King of the Smileys :-)
Alrighty, I have reworked the rules a little bit, moved a few around to group similar rules together, tried to clarify a few and added in what appears to be the consensus. Most of what I did was on rules 3 and 4 and I added some notes on the ref at the end. Feel free to give some feedback, this is your game too!!
Rules
1) The Referee randomly chooses from the 11 players three Mafiosi and one Inspector. All the rest are Townspeople. Each player is informed of their role via PM, and are not allowed to share that information with one another except in the official Mafia game thread. The Mafia are informed of one another's identity, and they are allowed to converse among themselves via PM. To put it plainly: a) If you are not a member of the mafia, do not discuss the mafia game outside the mafia thread with any other player or with any non-player who might discuss the game with a player. b) If you are a member of the mafia, you may discuss the game freely among your fellow mafia only. Do not discuss the game outside of this thread with any non-mafia player.
2) The Inspector is informed of his/her part, and also of the identity of one randomly chosen Mafia player. The inspector may at any time reveal their identity to the players within the thread. (see game play warnings above).
3) Voting will be open for 36 hours each round, or until everyone has cast their vote - whichever comes first. Additional time may be given by the referee to allow for continued discussion. Voting will never follow the 36-hour rule on the weekends. The Referee will only close voting on a Saturday or Sunday if all players have cast their vote. a) A player may choose to vote null without penalty, so long as they state this vote in the same fashion as a traditional vote. b) If votes are tied when the round closes, an additional 36 hour round will start. This is refered to a Run-Off in the game. Votes for players in the runoff are carried over, other votes are reset. c) If a player has not voted before voting closes, their vote will not be counted. A missed vote entering a run-off will be treated the same as a missed vote to end the round. A single day in gameplay can include several vote closings. If a player misses two votes, not two days, they are out of the game regardless of how good your reason is. When it is decided that a player is out, they will be killed off during the day alongside whoever would have been killed by vote.
4) Each day a vote is held for the player to be eliminated. For online play, deliberation and voting is combined; thus, you can vote and explain yourself in the same post. Every player is free to change their vote at any point up until the Ref declares that voting is closed. The Referee will then post the final tally, announce which player is eliminated and how they died.
5) During the Night, the Mafia decide on the player they want to eliminate (assassinate), and inform the Referee via PM. Once the Referee receives this info, it is posted here in the thread, the player is eliminated, and the following Day begins.
6) Likewise during the night the Inspector will PM the Referee and guess one player's Mafia status. The Referee will respond with a 'yes' or 'no' answer.
7) The Referee shall neither answer an Inspector's inquiry nor execute a Mafia's chosen victim until after having received both the Inspector's inquiry and the Mafia's chosen victim. If the Inspector is the victim, the Inspector is not owed an answer from the Referee. The Referee shall only accept victim names from living Mafia players.
8) Nights will last 18 hours. Nights do not follow the weekend rule and will end once the 18 hours are completed unless extended by the referee. a) If the Inspector has not made a guess within 18 hours during a Night round, the Inspector will forfeit that guess. b) If the Mafia have not reported a whack victim within 18 hours during a Night round, the Mafia will forfeit that whack and the Townspeople will receive another round of voting during that Night round to offset the missed whack.
9) Play continues until all the Mafia have been killed (Townspeople win), or the Mafia out number the Townspeople (Mafia win).
10) The Like Rule: Players may not "Like" another players post either alive or dead.
11) Player roles will not be revealed until the game has concluded.
12) AKA The Bek Rule: Players who have been eliminated are still welcome to post in this thread, but are asked to not say anything leading to any knowledge, suspicions or opinions you might have.
13) AKA The kdogg Rule: There will be no sharing of role PMs inside the thread or outside for the purpose of disclosing your role to another player. This also goes for password sharing. Common sense should be used, no discussion of your roles, except between Mafia, outside the thread - EVER.
14) AKA The Bacon Rule: The bigger the whiner, the smaller the wiener.
It is up to the referee of an active game to state and enforce the rules as the game starts. Changes may be made to start the game, but will not change once the game has started. All violations of game rules will be addressed by the referee. If there is a dispute in a game in progress, the ref may discuss it with non-players to resolve any issues or rule violations. In addition, the referee is responsible for maintaining an updated tally that includes the following: a) A list of players currently with a vote on them, including the number of votes b) A list of the current votes for that round c) A list of players yet to vote d) Estimated time until the round will close e) Any additional notes on the game
In addition to game rules, all players are expected to follow the guidelines and policies of the forum. Forum violations will initilaly be handled by the referee and penalties will be given on a case by case basis.
Giving this a bump. There was some discussion in the last game about revising/clarifing a few things here. Let's get a little bit of discussion going on here and see what we come up with
How do you think we should approach this though Surf? There really isn't a way to avoid this unless we keep the offending player in the game. My first thought was that the day resets once a player misses a second vote, that would give the town a bit of help.
I think a big issue came into play when Nico was afk until the run-off, and the only reason people voted him was to avoid the double kill and this gave us a two townie runoff and endless wifoming.
I think an AWOL player should be the lynch of the day so it's equally harmful if it's a mafia player afk, and it should also bypass/avoid a runoff so the guy doesn't come back at the last second and have wasted a run-off slot because nobody actually thinks they're scum. The other potential option is that player is modkilled then the day starts over so that there's not 2 (presumably) town kills and there's enough time to get in a run off since you guys love those so much.
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
Yeah, I like the idea of an AWOL player ending up being the lynch and that ends the day even if you're in a potential runoff situation. If it's a Mafia ploy they lose a Mafia which they would be unlikely to do (though certainly not inconceivable) and if it's just a disinterested Townie they're gone and it's the end of that problem. It still hurts either side but it doesn't cripple the game.
I think a big issue came into play when Nico was afk until the run-off, and the only reason people voted him was to avoid the double kill and this gave us a two townie runoff and endless wifoming.
I think an AWOL player should be the lynch of the day so it's equally harmful if it's a mafia player afk, and it should also bypass/avoid a runoff so the guy doesn't come back at the last second and have wasted a run-off slot because nobody actually thinks they're scum. The other potential option is that player is modkilled then the day starts over so that there's not 2 (presumably) town kills and there's enough time to get in a run off since you guys love those so much.
go play on your other sites if you don't like our runoffs so much brah! Leave our runoffs alone!
Curious what yall think of this, I have added in a one game suspension for an offending player and written up two options on how to handle this in the future.
3) Voting will be open for 36 hours each round, or until everyone has cast their vote - whichever comes first. Additional time may be given by the referee to allow for continued discussion. Voting will never follow the 36-hour rule on the weekends. The Referee will only close voting on a Saturday or Sunday if all players have cast their vote. a) A player may choose to vote null without penalty, so long as they state this vote in the same fashion as a traditional vote. b) If votes are tied when the round closes, an additional 36 hour round will start. This is refered to a Run-Off in the game. Votes for players in the runoff are carried over, other votes are reset. c) If a player has not voted before voting closes, their vote will not be counted. A missed vote entering a run-off will be treated the same as a missed vote to end the round. A single day in gameplay can include several vote closings. If a player misses two votes in the same game they are immediately killed off, regardless of how good your reason is. The removed player will also be suspended from participating in the following game.
OPTION 1 - When it is decided by the ref that a player is out for lack of voting, they will be killed off immediately and the game progresses into the following night for the mafia whack and inspector guess. No player will be voted off during a round in which a player is removed for lack of voting.
OPTION 2 - When it is decided by the ref that a player is out for lack of voting, they will be killed off immediately and the round will reset to the beginning of the day in progress. All votes will reset as if the absent player was killed off the previous night.
In my opinion, I think the round should reset. Taking this last game for example, folks will still vote for an absent player "just in case" so the round and votes will be skewed. I believe that either option I wrote up should take this option out of the townies hands. Resetting the round will allow for a normal round to take place. Moving right into a kill and night time I feel still gives a little more advantage to the mafia in these situations.
Mafia get an edge either way. Option 1, town has no say in who is voted out, and option 2, town still loses 3 potential townies, This would mean the best possible outcome for the town is to Tie, given that 2 townies could be removed in a day, or 1 mafia 1 townie.
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
Mike D
Bonnafunky Dirtyroo King of the Smileys :-)
I have been thinking quite a bit about this, probably more than is healthy . . . but hey, what else is inforoo good for, huh? I believe I am still not properly explaining what my train of thought is and putting it into words cause words is hard sometimes The question that it boils down to is this - Should the mafia get a kill and the inspector get a guess as the result of a player getting booted? I personally think the answer should be no. It keeps coming back to loosing X number of players in a round and I just don't see it that way.
Try to think about it this way:
Someone is booted and you give the mafia a kill (move directly into night) you loose 2 "potential townies" - the booted player and the mafia kill. If you reset the round, the mafia will not get a free kill from that booted player. OK, the round resets so technically/numerically it is still the same round, but the mafia will only get a kill as the result of a vote-off. If a player is booted, instead of resetting the round, we could call it the start of a new day instead; so instead of 3 potential townies in one round we now have 3 potential townies lost in 2 rounds. Even though I am talking about the same number of players voted/killed, does it sound better to say 3 townies in 2 rounds instead of 3 townies in one round? Either way we would still be at the exact same place in the game.
So, I would like to ask my fellow head-bashing mafia enthusiasts - Should the mafia get a kill/inspector get a guess as the result of a player getting booted?
We will still need to consider what happens when were down to 4-6 players here. Maybe we have a player on the bench to replace a player to keep the numbers the same?
Voting takes place over several hours; names are called, folks are accused of varying levels of shadiness. Votes reflect this.
Player nearly misses second vote; the town took it upon themselves to change votes to arrange it so the missing player got the most votes (even though he came back at the last minute), if not negating, then obfuscating the discussion and voting record that went on before. I saw this as being very beneficial to mafia.
I think it should be auto-lynch, no need to change votes and confuse the record. Night falls, whack & guess. New day.
Edit: I believe this would avoid even numbers of players
We will still need to consider what happens when were down to 4-6 players here. Maybe we have a player on the bench to replace a player to keep the numbers the same?
Are you referring to potential for tied votes after a missed vote expulsion?
We will still need to consider what happens when were down to 4-6 players here. Maybe we have a player on the bench to replace a player to keep the numbers the same?
If there were enough people interested to have replacements at any point in the game, modkilling for inactivity instantly becomes an obsolete option.
Emoney serves more of a purpose than any of you, especially Nate, whose incessant, garbled ramblings are so mindless and pointless that I get depressed just seeing them.
We will still need to consider what happens when were down to 4-6 players here. Maybe we have a player on the bench to replace a player to keep the numbers the same?
If there were enough people interested to have replacements at any point in the game, modkilling for inactivity instantly becomes an obsolete option.
we had 2 people chomping at the bit to play after the 1st day last game, if we simply had 12 positions to fill for a game (one extra in case someone missed 2 votes) the start up wouldn't really take that much longer. The interest is there.
We will still need to consider what happens when were down to 4-6 players here. Maybe we have a player on the bench to replace a player to keep the numbers the same?
Are you referring to potential for tied votes after a missed vote expulsion?
yes. We would end up with an even number of players if we mid killed then reset the day. Having someone step in to take over for the person who missed 2 votes would keep the games structure numerically in place.
