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Short summary: A couple bought a home in Atlanta. People continually showed up on their doorstep because the Find My Phone app kept sending them there looking for lost phones.
What makes you say so? After listening to Serial, I thought it could probably go either way. I listened to a lot of Undisclosed, but eventually, they stopped saying anything new, so I quit. It was obviously more biased than Serial, but before I stopped listening, they made a lot of points that, if nothing else, seemed to pretty convincingly demonstrate that Jay was completely lying.
What makes you say so? After listening to Serial, I thought it could probably go either way.
Same as you, I thought it could go either way, but with a slight bias to his innocence. What I am convinced of is he was not properly represented at his trial. I'm glad he's getting a new case.
What makes you say so? After listening to Serial, I thought it could probably go either way. I listened to a lot of Undisclosed, but eventually, they stopped saying anything new, so I quit. It was obviously more biased than Serial, but before I stopped listening, they made a lot of points that, if nothing else, seemed to pretty convincingly demonstrate that Jay was completely lying.
Was Jay lying when he showed the police where the body was?
He obviously was involved in the murder on some level.
My guess is Adnan paid Jay to kill her, and Jay realized he'd be fucked if that came out so he made up some bs about being blackmailed by Adnan to make it look like he was more innocent than he really is.
The people from disclosed are what got him a new trial. They were the ones that discovered the fax cover sheet that completely disproves the states cell phone evidence.
Only listening to Serial doesn't give a proper analysis of the case.
Truth and Justice is also a good one to include with Disclosed.
Also....I thought it wasn't Jay that showed them the burial site but the drunk handyman.
What makes you say so? After listening to Serial, I thought it could probably go either way. I listened to a lot of Undisclosed, but eventually, they stopped saying anything new, so I quit. It was obviously more biased than Serial, but before I stopped listening, they made a lot of points that, if nothing else, seemed to pretty convincingly demonstrate that Jay was completely lying.
Was Jay lying when he showed the police where the body was?
He obviously was involved in the murder on some level.
My guess is Adnan paid Jay to kill her, and Jay realized he'd be fucked if that came out so he made up some bs about being blackmailed by Adnan to make it look like he was more innocent than he really is.
Jay didn't show the police where the body was. "Mr. S" the maintenance guy, who supposedly found her body while he was going to pee, did.
Jay did purportedly show the police where her car was, but (1) there are suggestions that it was moved to that location at some point between her death and when it was found (the car was found in Baltimore City, but there were two plate checks run on her license plate number by Baltimore County Police Officers on February 4, 1999; the car was supposed to have been sitting in a pretty bad area of town for six weeks before it was found, through at least one ice storm and a couple of snows, but it was basically clean and untouched when they found it); and (2) there are suggestions that the police basically gave Jay a lot of the information that they wanted him to then relay back to them (in addition to indications relating to Jay, there are other cases involving the same police officers where convictions have been overturned because they did that very thing).
As far as I can find the only commentary on his guilt via podcast, blog, social discussion, was from the Generation Why boys. But they removed their episode on the case once the hearing started in February.
I'd love to see/read/hear someone who's researched the case in depth and still has an opinion of guilt.
As far as I can find the only commentary on his guilt via podcast, blog, social discussion, was from the Generation Why boys. But they removed their episode on the case once the hearing started in February.
I'd love to see/read/hear someone who's researched the case in depth and still has an opinion of guilt.
Yeah, I've tried finding some convincing argument of his guilt, but I haven't seen anything so far that had any substance to it. I'm not completely convinced of his innocence by any means, but I 100% believe that the police never seriously considered anyone but Adnan and basically invalidated their investigation by failing to follow up on anything that didn't confirm their belief that he did it; it didn't happen the way Jay has said it happened; and Adnan didn't get a fair trial.
Was Jay lying when he showed the police where the body was?
He obviously was involved in the murder on some level.
My guess is Adnan paid Jay to kill her, and Jay realized he'd be fucked if that came out so he made up some bs about being blackmailed by Adnan to make it look like he was more innocent than he really is.
Jay didn't show the police where the body was. "Mr. S" the maintenance guy, who supposedly found her body while he was going to pee, did.
Jay did purportedly show the police where her car was, but (1) there are suggestions that it was moved to that location at some point between her death and when it was found (the car was found in Baltimore City, but there were two plate checks run on her license plate number by Baltimore County Police Officers on February 4, 1999; the car was supposed to have been sitting in a pretty bad area of town for six weeks before it was found, through at least one ice storm and a couple of snows, but it was basically clean and untouched when they found it); and (2) there are suggestions that the police basically gave Jay a lot of the information that they wanted him to then relay back to them (in addition to indications relating to Jay, there are other cases involving the same police officers where convictions have been overturned because they did that very thing).
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My opinion on his guilt is just based on the serial podcast. Not familiar with follow up stuff. Def think his attorney blew it tho
I finally listened to the first season, Adnan is guilty as hell.
What makes you think that?
I just don't see anyway that he's innocent. Jay was a part of it, knowing where her car was proves that. The phone shows that adnan was with Jay that afternoon. Adnan is the only one that actually has a motive to want to hurt/kill Hei.
Also ignoring all the facts that make him look guilty, adnan himself doesn't sound innocent to me in any of the interviews.
I just don't see anyway that he's innocent. Jay was a part of it, knowing where her car was proves that. The phone shows that adnan was with Jay that afternoon. Adnan is the only one that actually has a motive to want to hurt/kill Hei.
Also ignoring all the facts that make him look guilty, adnan himself doesn't sound innocent to me in any of the interviews.
Jay probably knows something he hasn't told, but he also said a bunch of things that he clearly knew weren't true. There is no doubt in my mind that he lied over and over again. It might not be all on him. I also sincerely believe that the police led him to say things to help make their case.
It is very likely that her car was moved at some point. There was also an explanation as to why him knowing where it was didn't actually mean all that much. I want to say that the police knew where the car was before he supposedly told them, but maybe I'm getting this confused with Making a Murderer. I'll admit it's been a while since I listened to Serial or Undisclosed, so I'm not totally sharp on all the details anymore.
I don't think there was a dispute about Adnan being with Jay, was there? But as far as the phone telling where they were located, that evidence was garbage, which is a big part of why his conviction was vacated.
There's absolutely no way at all for you or me or any casual listener of these podcasts to say that Adnan was the only person with a motive to hurt or kill her. She had a boyfriend who was basically not ever investigated. We don't really know anything about what he was like or their relationship. We don't really know anything about any of her relationships with other people or her life at all for that matter. There are also just crazy fuckers in the world. I realize it's usually someone close to the murder victim, but usually is not always.
I don't think he sounded particularly guilty, but (probably like you) I have very little experience to base that on. And I put a fair amount of stock in the fact that the person from the Innocence Project, who probably has quite a lot of experience to base her impression on, didn't seem to believe at all that he was guilty.
So either Jay happened to kill Hae the same day that Adnan let him borrow his phone and car and also hung out with him, with Adnan having no idea that jay had killed her, or adnan was involved.
According to the podcast the cops had no idea where the car was until Jay showed them, which means he was definitely involved in some way.
Also they did talk about Haes boyfriend. He was at work that entire day.
Like I said, it's been a while. But after looking around a little, it was that there's at least a theory that the police actually did know where the car was before Jay supposedly pointed them to it. I can't find the actual details but I found a reference to it on Rabia's blog.
Re: Don
•Don usually worked at the Owings Mills LensCrafters location, but on the day of Lee’s murder, he claimed he was working at the Hunt Valley store, covering someone’s shift. The manager at the Owings Mills location verified Don’s alibi to police on February 1, even though she was not actually working with him, and specifically gave them the times that he clocked in and out, including to take a quick lunch break. The police never interviewed anyone who was supposedly working with Don at the Hunt Valley location that day. •The manager at the Hunt Valley location was none other than Don’s mother. •Don’s alibi didn’t garner further investigation until September 1999, just before the start of Syed’s trial, when the defense filed a subpoena under seal requesting that LensCrafters produce all employment records for Don — and those records showed that Don had only worked at the Owings Mills location that week, and had not worked at all on January 13, 1999. •Prosecutor Kevin Urick somehow learned of the defense’s request, even though it was sealed, and subpoenaed those records for himself. He then had a conversation with the LensCrafters legal department, who, a few days later, found an additional time card showing that Don had worked at the Hunt Valley store on the day of Lee’s disappearance/murder. (The information on that time sheet matched the information provided by the Owings Mills manager on February 1.) They provided this time card to Urick and to the defense, but only Urick’s copy came along with a cover letter emphasizing that Don’s mother was the manager at the Hunt Valley location. Naturally, Urick never mentioned that little fact at trial.
So either Jay happened to kill Hae the same day that Adnan let him borrow his phone and car and also hung out with him, with Adnan having no idea that jay had killed her, or adnan was involved.
I don't think Jay killed her. I think the police fed Jay information for him to give back to them to make their case against Adnan.
I'm not certain whether or not Adnan killed Hae. I am certain he was the only suspect in the minds of the police and that they did a really shitty investigation that was designed solely to make a case against Adnan and was not designed to try to actually find out the truth about how and why she was killed.
According to the podcast the cops had no idea where the car was until Jay showed them, which means he was definitely involved in some way.
Also they did talk about Haes boyfriend. He was at work that entire day.
Like I said, it's been a while. But after looking around a little, it was that there's at least a theory that the police actually did know where the car was before Jay supposedly pointed them to it. I can't find the actual details but I found a reference to it on Rabia's blog.
Re: Don
•Don usually worked at the Owings Mills LensCrafters location, but on the day of Lee’s murder, he claimed he was working at the Hunt Valley store, covering someone’s shift. The manager at the Owings Mills location verified Don’s alibi to police on February 1, even though she was not actually working with him, and specifically gave them the times that he clocked in and out, including to take a quick lunch break. The police never interviewed anyone who was supposedly working with Don at the Hunt Valley location that day. •The manager at the Hunt Valley location was none other than Don’s mother. •Don’s alibi didn’t garner further investigation until September 1999, just before the start of Syed’s trial, when the defense filed a subpoena under seal requesting that LensCrafters produce all employment records for Don — and those records showed that Don had only worked at the Owings Mills location that week, and had not worked at all on January 13, 1999. •Prosecutor Kevin Urick somehow learned of the defense’s request, even though it was sealed, and subpoenaed those records for himself. He then had a conversation with the LensCrafters legal department, who, a few days later, found an additional time card showing that Don had worked at the Hunt Valley store on the day of Lee’s disappearance/murder. (The information on that time sheet matched the information provided by the Owings Mills manager on February 1.) They provided this time card to Urick and to the defense, but only Urick’s copy came along with a cover letter emphasizing that Don’s mother was the manager at the Hunt Valley location. Naturally, Urick never mentioned that little fact at trial.
So either Jay happened to kill Hae the same day that Adnan let him borrow his phone and car and also hung out with him, with Adnan having no idea that jay had killed her, or adnan was involved.
I don't think Jay killed her. I think the police fed Jay information for him to give back to them to make their case against Adnan.
I'm not certain whether or not Adnan killed Hae. I am certain he was the only suspect in the minds of the police and that they did a really shitty investigation that was designed solely to make a case against Adnan and was not designed to try to actually find out the truth about how and why she was killed.
most of what you're talking about in this post was not talked about in the podcast so I don't really have anything to say about it one way or the other. I only listened to the podcast.
If your discounting the most important info from the podcast, that Jay knew where the car was, then the entire podcast seems pointless. Plus if jay really had no involvement then why would he help the police and make himself look bad for no reason?
Ken, I strongly suggest you go listen to Undisclosed. There's so much more to the story. And also read Jay's intercept interview. He tell yet another version of events.
The pod cast left out a lot and a lot happened after it was released.
Adnan is innocent. And the courts are starting to lean towards that too.
Ken, I strongly suggest you go listen to Undisclosed. There's so much more to the story. And also read Jay's intercept interview. He tell yet another version of events.
The pod cast left out a lot and a lot happened after it was released.
Adnan is innocent. And the courts are starting to lean towards that too.
it's weird that the podcast would leave out so much info supporting Adnan, when her being able to make him look more innocent would make for a better story.
Like they stated in the final episode of the podcast, it's "possible" he's innocent, but only if many things with a very small likelihood of happening happened symotaneously. Jays story not being exactly the same 15 years later doesn't seem that weird to me.
Post by Delicious Meatball Sub on Jun 15, 2017 8:39:59 GMT -5
I said this when we first started talking about the show, but the explosion of true crime entertainment has only increased my frustration with this show. Adnan is guilty. Did he get a fair trial? Maybe not, but that's a different question than whether he was involved in killing an innocent girl. This show is entertainment, not an appeals court, and not a legitimate criminal investigation. Koening didn't ask Adnan hard questions, she didn't push back. She decided early on he was innocent and after that just wanted to do a good show. She was more concerned about Justice for someone she perceived to be innocent than Justice for someone who is actually dead. A good friend of mine was close with the victim. She thinks he did it. He exhibited the classic behavior of a domestic abuser - possessive, angry. She told Koening this when she was interviewed for the show, but when her clip aired she was made to sound much more uncertain about his guilt than she is. Now she has relive this whole ordeal, plus deal with all the amateur sleuths trying to track her down because THEY know Adnan is innocent based on a podcast and some Internet reading.
I certainly understand people's concerns about his trial, and I think those are justified. And maybe he'll end up going free because of that. I doubt it. I think they could retry this and convict him again on the mountain of circumstantial evidence against him. But even if he's not guilty in a court of law, he's still OJ guilty.
Yeah it reminds me a bit of making a murderer. I think that dude was guilty as well, but I also think the trial was fucked and whether he should be found guilty based on the trial is a different question.
Making a Murderer is different. I found issues with the documentary right away. And then after looking more into it....he's so guilty.
But with the syed case....the more I learned...the more I believe his innocence. Especially with the companion podcasts Undisclosed and Truth and Justice.
Anytime I hear an argument for his guilt...it comes without the information from those outlets. And now that Asia was allowed to testify this past year, and the fax cover sheet from the cell phone investigation....he's getting a new trial or the price curios is going to drop the case.
He was actually in court yesterday and I'm just about to read up on what happened there.
Yeah it reminds me a bit of making a murderer. I think that dude was guilty as well, but I also think the trial was fucked and whether he should be found guilty based on the trial is a different question.
Yeah, the only injustice in Making a Murderer was Brendan, which the documentary played a major role in potentially remedying. As for Steven, there was sufficient legitimate evidence for a reasonable jury to find him guilty.
